New suspention

[Legend_master]

Edit

I tried to install front 1996-1999 civic Illuminas struts matched with front 1986-1989 Accord dropzone springs(not coilovers). I had to modify the lower fork, because the civic struts were much thinker then the factory accord struts. I ground out the inside of the perch and got the struts to fit. They matched up with the accord springs perfectly. I will admit they were a little tall, but used with a light drop they could work well. If you dont already have the struts and you want a much eaiser setup check out these two threads.

Front 1988-1990 civic struts (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47746)
Full bodied coilovers (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59533)

[Vanilla Sky]

cool. worse to worse, we can send them in and have them shortened.

[Legend_master]

cool. worse to worse, we can send them in and have them shortened.


The only reason that would need to be done is if you were planning on slamming the hell out of the car, but if you were to use civic springs than theoretically there would be no difference. If you just drop the car 1 to 2.5 inches the struts will still be resting at a point to were the ride would not be affected, but when you dump the vehicle the struts rest way to low and none of the gas or liquid can get undernieth the rod to allow for damper. I know what I am say, but I dont think I am saying it right. I will draw a digram when I get home from work.

[Vanilla Sky]

i know what you're talking about, i'm just saying that for people that do want to dump the car on the ground, these struts can be shortened. you can buy struts for civics shortened off the shelf. a lot easier to find than struts for our cars.

[Legend_master]

i know what you're talking about, i'm just saying that for people that do want to dump the car on the ground, these struts can be shortened. you can buy struts for civics shortened off the shelf. a lot easier to find than struts for our cars.


I have heard that Lowboys and dropzone struts are designed for extremely lowered cars. They have a shorter rod and a deeper piston to allow for the strut to sit real low and the rod to still have pressure underneith it.

[Vanilla Sky]

a lot of the full-bodied coilovers as shortend at least 1/2 inch

[Slavic]

Am I understanding correctly that You are using Civic front shocks with Accord springs on an Accord? What Year Civic? How well does that work?

[Legend_master]

Am I understanding correctly that You are using Civic front shocks with Accord springs on an Accord? What Year Civic? How well does that work?


YOu are correct and the springs fit perfectly on the struts, but I have not installed them yet. The only difference in the struts seems to be that the civic struts are longer than the accord struts. If you do a search there have been a few people on here that have doen this. BTW I am using 96-00 civic struts, these would also be the same struts as the same year integra. I will be installing them on wednesday and I will keep you guys updated.

[carotman]

The illuminas are great.

Just make sure you don't ride them on the bumpstop :p

[Legend_master]

The illuminas are great.

Just make sure you don't ride them on the bumpstop :p


yea they are good struts, I can't wait to get them on my ride. I dont think the dropzone springs will drop them to the bumpstops or at least I hope not. What do you guys think?

[Busted_Blue]

the front ones fit? I always thought it was only the rears that fit well.

[Legend_master]

the front ones fit? I always thought it was only the rears that fit well.


The fronts are just longer, but the rears require washers or that is what I have heard. :dunno:

[88accordalltheway]

this is gunna be an awesome break through if they come out well.... Keep us posted!!!!

[Legend_master]

I will keep you guys updated, They will be installed as of wednesday and I will test drive and let you guys know.

[Legend_master]

well I got them installed and they are stiff as hell with those springs. This is not a simple bolt on mod. I had to modify the fork that attaches to the strut, because the civic strut is thicker than the accord by a good amount. I kinda rig it for now, but I am going to go to the junk yard and do it the right way. I used a wedge to bend the fork and then had to use a drimmel tool to make it even bigger. I am thinking about modifing a couple more forks for people if they want to do the civic struts also. Would there be anybody interested in that? I dont have any picture, but I will try and get some later (I am already 2 hours late for work). I will tell more when I get off work.

[TheWatcher]

You got those cheap ebay dropzone springs, so you're gonna bounce all over the place. :thumbdn:

This was posted a month ago, you should have read it before getting the dropzones, http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=43729. :(

Peace.

[Legend_master]

You got those cheap ebay dropzone springs, so you're gonna bounce all over the place. :thumbdn:

This was posted a month ago, you should have read it before getting the dropzones, http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=43729. :(

Peace.


Actually there quite stiff, the reason that everybody thinks they are bouncy is because they used the wrong kind of struts with them. If you have a stiff spring then you need to use a stiff strut. The bounce I get from the car at all is from the tire flex. The suspention is solid as a rock and all I need is some low profile tires and I will be set.

[Busted_Blue]

how does it look?

[TheWatcher]

Actually there quite stiff, the reason that everybody thinks they are bouncy is because they used the wrong kind of struts with them. If you have a stiff spring then you need to use a stiff strut. The bounce I get from the car at all is from the tire flex. The suspention is solid as a rock and all I need is some low profile tires and I will be set.
Whatever you want to believe. You get what you pay for. :) These two threads, and numerous other threads, say you are mistaken.

Quote from one of the threads, "dropzone is horrible". 'Nuff said.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=901721

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=761926

Just so the newbies don't all go out and buy dropzones. You are all warned.

Peace.

[Legend_master]

how does it look?


you can't even tell that they were not made for our cars. I need to set them a little lower, because they are to stiff. I feel every single bump, nook, and cranny in the road. I will get pictures up tommarow, I am to tired tonight.

[Legend_master]

Whatever you want to believe. You get what you pay for. :) These two threads, and numerous other threads, say you are mistaken.

Quote from one of the threads, "dropzone is horrible". 'Nuff said.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=901721

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=761926

Just so the newbies don't all go out and buy dropzones. You are all warned.

Peace.

:thumbup:

[NotFast]

My springs look good, i'm glad you finally have a chance to use them.

You still have the legend?

[Legend_master]

My springs look good, i'm glad you finally have a chance to use them.

You still have the legend?


No I actually had to sell it to get my motor swap going (after 5 years and it was my first car). The springs are great, they work awsome with the Tokicos. I have been waiting awhile to put them on untill i got some nice struts, so this was the perfect opertunity. I hadent seen you around the forum much.

[NotFast]

Yea i don't really have time for it anymore :thumbdn:. I moved to a new apartment and don't have a computer, but hopefully tuesday i'll be getting a 89 lxi coupe.

[Busted_Blue]

Whatever you want to believe. You get what you pay for. :) These two threads, and numerous other threads, say you are mistaken.

Quote from one of the threads, "dropzone is horrible". 'Nuff said.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=901721

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=761926

Just so the newbies don't all go out and buy dropzones. You are all warned.

Peace.


Dropzone springs aren't bad springs. they are just stiff as hell and there isn't a strut that can handle spring rates of that caliber. There isn't much we can do with suspension with struts that are designed for our cars except konis and bilstiens revalved. Dropzones are stiff and having illuminas definitely will make a ride that is stiff but bounce due to improper match of spring and strut.

[Legend_master]

Dropzone springs aren't bad springs. they are just stiff as hell and there isn't a strut that can handle spring rates of that caliber. There isn't much we can do with suspension with struts that are designed for our cars except konis and bilstiens revalved. Dropzones are stiff and having illuminas definitely will make a ride that is stiff but bounce due to improper match of spring and strut.


Really the only bounce I am getting is comeing from the tires. If I were to have low profiles or at least something that is not a 13" rim and tire it wouldent bounce to bad.

[Busted_Blue]

Really the only bounce I am getting is comeing from the tires. If I were to have low profiles or at least something that is not a 13" rim and tire it wouldent bounce to bad.


bounce = bad.. People should know that bounce does not equal stiff. You can have a stiff ride and no bounce. Bounce is the extra float after a bump that is cause by a spring that is overpowering the strut.


I'm glad you decided to try this mod out. One question, today I just installed KYB AGX on my friend's 00 Civic. The brakelines were bolted onto the control arm and you said you used EK illuminas. The ones in your picture are bolted on to the strut. There is a difference as my friend didn't have brake lines bolted on to the strut. What year illuminas did you get or is there an option for that strut housing brake line thing?


PS get some new tires/rims..your car will love it.

[Legend_master]

bounce = bad.. People should know that bounce does not equal stiff. You can have a stiff ride and no bounce. Bounce is the extra float after a bump that is cause by a spring that is overpowering the strut.


I'm glad you decided to try this mod out. One question, today I just installed KYB AGX on my friend's 00 Civic. The brakelines were bolted onto the control arm and you said you used EK illuminas. The ones in your picture are bolted on to the strut. There is a difference as my friend didn't have brake lines bolted on to the strut. What year illuminas did you get or is there an option for that strut housing brake line thing?


PS get some new tires/rims..your car will love it.


I know exactly what the floaty bounce is and I can garuntee that it comes from the tires. I have had all kinds of suspention from coilovers to airride :uh: and have reaserched them all. The tire is the only thing moving when I am driving, I mean literally I can't get the suspention to move a MM. After I get my motor in the car I will be getting some 15" or 16" Rota slipstreams and I will let you guys know how those turn out. As for the year of the struts, they came from a 99-00 Civic Si, but all 96-00 year civics and integras have the same struts. The only difference is the stiffness (IE the integras have stiffer springs and struts then the civic), but when you get an aftermarket like the tokicos illuminas you get the same strut.

[Busted_Blue]

I know exactly what the floaty bounce is and I can garuntee that it comes from the tires. I have had all kinds of suspention from coilovers to airride :uh: and have reaserched them all. The tire is the only thing moving when I am driving, I mean literally I can't get the suspention to move a MM. After I get my motor in the car I will be getting some 15" or 16" Rota slipstreams and I will let you guys know how those turn out. As for the year of the struts, they came from a 99-00 Civic Si, but all 96-00 year civics and integras have the same struts. The only difference is the stiffness (IE the integras have stiffer springs and struts then the civic), but when you get an
aftermarket like the tokicos illuminas you get the same strut.


don't get me wrong! I'm not bashing you for what you've done. It was directed more to the readers of this forum. You already know enough. Majority of the members here on this board are still new to suspension. I'm just curious why yours have brake line threads on them and the ones my friend got, didnt. He did buy them for a Civic EX though..if that really makes a difference. I haven't looked under a EM1 chassis that thoroughly so it could be different.

I always knew that the EG and DC chassis were interchangable but I never knew exactly the interchangibility of the EK and DC.

[Legend_master]

don't get me wrong! I'm not bashing you for what you've done. It was directed more to the readers of this forum. You already know enough. Majority of the members here on this board are still new to suspension. I'm just curious why yours have brake line threads on them and the ones my friend got, didnt. He did buy them for a Civic EX though..if that really makes a difference. I haven't looked under a EM1 chassis that thoroughly so it could be different.

I always knew that the EG and DC chassis were interchangable but I never knew exactly the interchangibility of the EK and DC.


Well I really can't tell you why the threads are not there :dunno: , because they should be even if they are for an EX. I think that he might have gotten the wrong struts or that KYB dident put the threads on there to keep down on cost. Did they fit on the pirches well? and did the springs fit on them well? Besides that you got me. The funny thing about Honda is how much compatibality they have between there cars. My friend put my 00 Gsr factory struts on a 92 2dr Accord and the only difference was that they were shorter. I was like :ugh: when he said he was going to try it, but they fit like a glove :rockon: . I hope you guys figure out how to mount the brake lines, but I bet zip ties will be your friend.

[Busted_Blue]

Well I really can't tell you why the threads are not there :dunno: , because they should be even if they are for an EX. I think that he might have gotten the wrong struts or that KYB dident put the threads on there to keep down on cost. Did they fit on the pirches well? and did the springs fit on them well? Besides that you got me. The funny thing about Honda is how much compatibality they have between there cars. My friend put my 00 Gsr factory struts on a 92 2dr Accord and the only difference was that they were shorter. I was like :ugh: when he said he was going to try it, but they fit like a glove :rockon: . I hope you guys figure out how to mount the brake lines, but I bet zip ties will be your friend.


That is the thing...the brake lines actually were bolted onto the control arms. The control arms had thread for the brake line holders. This is the part that confuses me as if there were actually two versions of the civic struts because there are two version of the suspension.

[b8er]

from what i have just read on you 2 talking back and forth it seems like there must be 2 different versions, plain and simple, it seems pretty straight forward to me, if strut X has this and strut Y doesnt then it just seems like plain sence that there must be 2 types, now i am a noob when it comes to suspension but im just saying from reading these post that im stating the ovious

[TheWatcher]

Dropzone springs aren't bad springs. they are just stiff as hell and there isn't a strut that can handle spring rates of that caliber. There isn't much we can do with suspension with struts that are designed for our cars except konis and bilstiens revalved. Dropzones are stiff and having illuminas definitely will make a ride that is stiff but bounce due to improper match of spring and strut.
Yes, dropzones are bad. You get what you pay for. Your post runs counter to both the threads I posted, plus every thread that I have ever read.

Peace.

[88Accord-DX]

Whatever you want to believe. You get what you pay for. :) These two threads, and numerous other threads, say you are mistaken.

Quote from one of the threads, "dropzone is horrible". 'Nuff said.

Yes, dropzones are bad. You get what you pay for.

You got those cheap ebay dropzone springs, so you're gonna bounce all over the place. :thumbdn:
Damn man, quit hatin'. I've noticed some other members getting annoyed with your comments too.

Anyway, the springs & struts look cool to me. As long as it makes you happy, that is all that matters.

[AccordEpicenter]

are the illuminas much sitffer than stock? Would they be as stiff as say, a koni ?

[TheWatcher]

Damn man, quit hatin'. I've noticed some other members getting annoyed with your comments too.

Anyway, the springs & struts look cool to me. As long as it makes you happy, that is all that matters.
What you're problem? This doesn't concern you. People have differences in opinion.

I make every effort to try to help members, if you spent any time reading my posts. Or do you read only my "hating" posts.

Whatevers. I'm not judging people, only offering my opinion. You judge me. You don't even know me.

It's so easy to point the finger. Maybe you should look in the mirror.

Maybe you're the one who should quit hating.

Peace.

[88Accord-DX]

What you're problem? This doesn't concern you. People have differences in opinion.
I make every effort to try to help members, if you spent any time reading my posts. Or do you read only my "hating" posts.
Whatevers. I'm not judging people, only offering my opinion. You judge me. You don't even know me.
It's so easy to point the finger. Maybe you should look in the mirror.
Maybe you're the one who should quit hating.

Don't matter who's concern it is. I don't go around pointing out the negative things / opinions about what people have on here either.
If you think I'm judging you, then let it be. Call it what you want.
You don't know me either.
I'm one of a few members that has made a similar comment like this towards you.
I'm not going to argue with you over who is right or what, cause I could get the boot. I'll leave it at that.

[Legend_master]

are the illuminas much sitffer than stock? Would they be as stiff as say, a koni ?


They are extremely stiff, On level one they could be compared to a tokico blue and on level five they could be compared to a piece of metal welded in place of the strut.


from what i have just read on you 2 talking back and forth it seems like there must be 2 different versions, plain and simple, it seems pretty straight forward to me, if strut X has this and strut Y doesnt then it just seems like plain sence that there must be 2 types, now i am a noob when it comes to suspension but im just saying from reading these post that im stating the ovious

I honestly can't figure it out, all the struts for 96-00 civics should be the exact same for every model :dunno: .


Yes, dropzones are bad. You get what you pay for. Your post runs counter to both the threads I posted, plus every thread that I have ever read.

Peace.

all those springs were run with shocks that were much less stiff than what they needed to be. If you are going to make a negative statement at least make a proper one. Seems like every post I have seen that you have made, you are being a dickhead if not than you need to thinka bout what you say before you say it.


Don't matter who's concern it is. I don't go around pointing out the negative things / opinions about what people have on here either.
If you think I'm judging you, then let it be. Call it what you want.
You don't know me either.
I'm one of a few members that has made a similar comment like this towards you.
I'm not going to argue with you over who is right or what, cause I could get the boot. I'll leave it at that.

Don't worry about it man it's a waist of time. Thanks for the compliments on the suspention and I will get some pics up soon.

[AccordEpicenter]

this sounds like it could be a cheap alternative to konis or revalved bilsteins, how much longer are they? Are the rears close at all?

[Busted_Blue]

Yes, dropzones are bad. You get what you pay for. Your post runs counter to both the threads I posted, plus every thread that I have ever read.

Peace.


its hard to determine things from Honda-tech. Many of those people like one setup and will bash everything else to hell. There are alot of haters on that board and they prefer one thing and nothing else.

Dropzones are not necessarily bad. They have amazingly stiff spring rates and probably the tokico illuminas don't have the strut power to withstand it either but that doesn't mean they are bad. It just means the springs are stiff and there isn't many struts to handle that kind of stiffness. Just blurting out dropzones are bad doesn't help anyone. Illuminas are much stiffer than blues. If you ever looked at the shock dynos on honda-tech (something that can't be proven wrong) you can see that the illuminas have a much stiffer rating.

I agree dropzones are bad with our accord struts unless they are revalved bilstiens or konis, but it doesn't mean that it is bad all the time.

[Legend_master]

this sounds like it could be a cheap alternative to konis or revalved bilsteins, how much longer are they? Are the rears close at all?


well the part that goes below where the spring sits is about 1/2" longer than the accord one. I did notice that it raised the front just a little, but if you were to match them with Coilovers then there wouldent be a problem. I have read on this forum that the rears from the same year civic will bolt on with no modification, but they are shorter. The fact that the strut is shorter should not affect the ride hight, but like I said before coilovers would work better.

On a side note I was looking at some CRX struts and noticed that they are almost identical to the accord, but that car is much lighter than ours so :dunno: .

[AccordEpicenter]

are CRX struts the correct size and diameter? Maybe use the 92+ civic rear struts and 88-91 front struts?

[Legend_master]

are CRX struts the correct size and diameter? Maybe use the 92+ civic rear struts and 88-91 front struts?


I am not sure, but I know they are a much smaller diameter than the 96-00 civics struts. As for the 92+ rears I am not sure . Someone should take a trip to the junkyard and check out the 88-91 CRX front struts and see if they fit onto the Accord Lower fork. I am pretty sure the Illuminas for the CRX are they same strength as the civic. If this were true then there would be limitless amounts of suspention upgrades for the accord. Once I get the swap doen I will be getting the civic rear illuminas for my car.

[TheWatcher]

its hard to determine things from Honda-tech. Many of those people like one setup and will bash everything else to hell. There are alot of haters on that board and they prefer one thing and nothing else.

Dropzones are not necessarily bad. They have amazingly stiff spring rates and probably the tokico illuminas don't have the strut power to withstand it either but that doesn't mean they are bad. It just means the springs are stiff and there isn't many struts to handle that kind of stiffness. Just blurting out dropzones are bad doesn't help anyone. Illuminas are much stiffer than blues. If you ever looked at the shock dynos on honda-tech (something that can't be proven wrong) you can see that the illuminas have a much stiffer rating.

I agree dropzones are bad with our accord struts unless they are revalved bilstiens or konis, but it doesn't mean that it is bad all the time.
Thanks BustedBlue, I appreciate the response. Much better than being called a dickhead or hater. Whatevers, I'm going to the beach today. :)

I think I'll just cut my posts down. Whenever I see certain posts, I'll just refrain from posting (h22, people complaining about some wrong done to them, etc.). And anyone who attacked me for posting, if they have problems or ask for help/opinions, I'll just watch. :lol:

I love everyone at 3geez, but this is certainly is not worth it. Not when you live in paradise. If I post asking for help (and I will), I'm not going to bash anyone for trying to help me, that's for sure. I'm sorry if I end up not helping people as much, but once bitten twice shy.

If everyone was as cool as you BustedBlue, the world would be a better place.

Nuff said. I'm off to the beach, no surf today, but who cares, it's sunny! :lol:

Peace.

[Busted_Blue]

Sidenote: its a forum, its just words and don't take everything offensively. People are behind the computer and think it is ok to just flame away. Enjoy it. Honda-tech is always fun to watch people fight. :)





as the civic struts goes, I believe they are longer than our struts but they are the same diameter. I know EF guys use our struts to lower their front a bit more without losing shock travel.

Lemme see if i can find a link to it


found it!

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=399992




throw in some reverse technique and use their findings to our own advantage.
My guess is that we can use civic suspension (especially the shorten revalved ones to compensate for that extra 1inch) and just replace the top hat with our own (since the front ones are 2 on the civic and 3 on accords) and the rears should be fine.

it even says that the rear ones are identical....make sure you get the fork design (89-91) as there is also a box design on the early 88 models, if you are going to try them out.



so who got the money to try them out? :lol:

[Legend_master]

Sidenote: its a forum, its just words and don't take everything offensively. People are behind the computer and think it is ok to just flame away. Enjoy it. Honda-tech is always fun to watch people fight. :)





as the civic struts goes, I believe they are longer than our struts but they are the same diameter. I know EF guys use our struts to lower their front a bit more without losing shock travel.

Lemme see if i can find a link to it


found it!

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=399992




throw in some reverse technique and use their findings to our own advantage.
My guess is that we can use civic suspension (especially the shorten revalved ones to compensate for that extra 1inch) and just replace the top hat with our own (since the front ones are 2 on the civic and 3 on accords) and the rears should be fine.

it even says that the rear ones are identical....make sure you get the fork design (89-91) as there is also a box design on the early 88 models, if you are going to try them out.



so who got the money to try them out? :lol:

well thats fucking awsome, they make all kinds of suspetion mods for those year civics. I will be getting the rears from that year.

[Legend_master]

here is all the shocks/struts they make for that year civic. The illuminas are only $110.00.

http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_parts.cfm?vpcid=453&vcatid=0010&vcatyear=1990&vmodelid=020&vmakeid=140&vL1id=0&&vtitle=HONDA%20Civic%201990

[5spdaccordlxi]

about how much does using the illuminas raise the front since they are longer than the stock dampers?

[Legend_master]

about how much does using the illuminas raise the front since they are longer than the stock dampers?

well with dropzone springs (not coilovers), the car looks like this
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0444038.jpg

I would suggest getting coilovers so you can adjust the ride hight.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

as the civic struts goes, I believe they are longer than our struts but they are the same diameter. I know EF guys use our struts to lower their front a bit more without losing shock travel.

Lemme see if i can find a link to it


found it!

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=399992


Whoa thats awesome.... So the only real issue is the front struts... I would love to get some full bodied coilovers and just dump my car... maybe this will become a reality soon with a little bit of trial and error..., Time to head to the junkyard for some civic shocks.


well with dropzone springs (not coilovers), the car looks like this

How much are the dropzones supposed to drop you? because the car looks quite high?

I really like the fact that you're trying out the civic shocks, thats awesome.

[b8er]

wow theres some good info in this thread, keep it going guys, this has already opened a big door for our suspension opions, good work

[Legend_master]

Whoa thats awesome.... So the only real issue is the front struts... I would love to get some full bodied coilovers and just dump my car... maybe this will become a reality soon with a little bit of trial and error..., Time to head to the junkyard for some civic shocks.



How much are the dropzones supposed to drop you? because the car looks quite high?

I really like the fact that you're trying out the civic shocks, thats awesome.

2 and 1/4th I belive, but the car looks almost stock. I bet you could tuck wheel in the front with some coilovers, but then you would have to worry abotu camber. As for the Diamater of the strut only the 1989 body style has the same diamater struts as our cars. the 96-00 are a little thicker around and as for the rears, all year civics and integras have much shorter struts then ours.

[5spdaccordlxi]

uhhhmmmm so i have H&Rs on my car now iwth a 1.5 inch drop..... this is gonna make the front of my car lifted isnt it.......shit

[Legend_master]

uhhhmmmm so i have H&Rs on my car now iwth a 1.5 inch drop..... this is gonna make the front of my car lifted isnt it.......shit

yep, unless you get coilovers :dunno:

[5spdaccordlxi]

i just finished doing the front illumina conversion. what a bitch. there is not enough material to bore out enough to fit the strut. you need to bore and bend. when you ben it it makes it so you cant use the pinch bolt anymore. you instead have to find a bol thats much smaller in diameter and use that witha nut on the end. also, the bottom part of the fork that bolts onto the lower A arm is bent now so you have to beat the hell out of the bolt to get it through. Also, the amout of length that is gained from the shock is about 3 inches which is huge. You cant drop it back down very far either. i have 1.5 inch H&R lowering springs and i am already losing supsention travel on the strut. if you wanted to drop it low enough where it would look decent again you would lose way to much travel and the strut would be useless. I do however love the stiffness and responsivenes of these struts. i only wish there was a way to lower it maybe an inch or two without losing travel. i suppose i could move the pinch fork perch up but i dont know how to do that and wouldnt want to damage the strut. i'm thinking maybe i'll just get stock springs and put them in the rear to raise it back up so it is somehwat even.