Bad noises (tranny and engine)

[jaiden]

89 manual lx carb

1) Horrible noise when the transmission is under load. No noise at any speed or any RPM if the clutch is pushed in, or if the car is in neutral.
Tomorrow morning I'll check the fluid, but other than that is this the end of my tranny?

2) very loud rattling noise at idle (presumably at speed too). Seems to be coming from the top of the engine from an unpainted metal pipe about 1" in diamater between the valve cover and the air cleaner. What is this thing? Why would it make a horrible noise?

help! I'm worried this may be the end of my car.

[jaiden]

I found a pic which shows this thing from #2. http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3621
(this pic is not my car)

It's right under the throttle cable to the right of the oil cap.
Note that the noise may not be from there for sure, but it does seem that way.

[lostforawhile]

I found a pic which shows this thing from #2. http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3621
(this pic is not my car)

It's right under the throttle cable to the right of the oil cap.
Note that the noise may not be from there for sure, but it does seem that way.can you get me a picture? i can probably help you could it be coming from the valve cover? have your valves been adjusted? they can be very noisy. mine are all adjusted properly and they are still noisy. oh, does it goto the exaust manifold?

[jaiden]

ok here are some pics:
http://www.weefix.com/89accord/dscn0725.jpg
http://www.weefix.com/89accord/dscn0726.jpg

i'm pointing at where I think the noise is coming from. I have no idea what this thing is.

(oops. post edited)

[jaiden]

It seems that the valve on it is an "air suction valve" based on the 89 shop manual. but that doesn't help. I still have no idea what it is, what it does, or why it would be making rattling noises.

I'm really more concerned about the tranny, but both problems need to get fixed ASAP.

[jaiden]

to answer your PM, it's a very loud rattle.

[lostforawhile]

now we are getting somewhere. that valve is like the old reed valves on american cars. it lets air into the exaust manifold to help the converter do it's job better. on our cars it's controlled by the computer. sometimes they develop exaust leaks. they are always going to be noisy. it sounds like a bad valve when it's operating. claclclacclackclackclack it is louder under load because the computer allows it to open under certain conditions. is there exaust leaking from it? there are a couple of gaskets on it. the big plastic piece on it i just a silencer. the metal part is the valve. because it goes directly to your exaust manifold if it malfinctions it can be really noisy.

[jaiden]

so is it OK to leave it noisy? should I disconnect and plug the vac line?

[lostforawhile]

so is it OK to leave it noisy? should I disconnect and plug the vac line?if it's coming from there i think it's ok. they were probably noisy when they left the factory. it's just annoying thats all. you could temporarily plug the vaccume line and see if it quiets down. that will tell you for sure. if it still makes noise with the line plugged you could still have a problem. check on the site and see if someone has an extra valve. a lot of guys on here have removed it and i'm sure someone has one lying around somewhere.

[jaiden]

OK thanks alot. I'll try that in the morning.

My bigger concern is the tranny. Is it toast?

[lostforawhile]

OK thanks alot. I'll try that in the morning.

My bigger concern is the tranny. Is it toast?try this get the car rolling at about 25 miles an hour then push the clutch in if the noise goes away you probably have clutch problems if it stays you have transmission or driveshaft problems. what kind of noise is coming from the transmission? does it get worse when you turn left or right? you have to have the car rolling so the transmission is turning without help from the motor. also try the same thing but coast in nuetral if the noise is the same it's the diff in the transmission or a driveshaft. check the fluid, there are two plugs, the upper plug is hex shaped for a socket you should be able to stick your finger in there and feel oil. these cars take motor oil for the manual transmissions, honda says 5-w30 but i run 10-w40 here's where my air suction valve used to be. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/Image00040.jpg

[jaiden]

If the clutch is pushed in, there is no noise.
if the car is in neutral there is no noise.
if the car is in gear, and I'm matching speed (not accelerating or decelerating) it's not nearly as noisy as when I hit the gas or let off the gas.
I think it may be louder making long right turns, but I'm not sure.

I'm thinking it can't be anything but the tranny....?

[lostforawhile]

If the clutch is pushed in, there is no noise.
if the car is in neutral there is no noise.
if the car is in gear, and I'm matching speed (not accelerating or decelerating) it's not nearly as noisy as when I hit the gas or let off the gas.
I think it may be louder making long right turns, but I'm not sure.

I'm thinking it can't be anything but the tranny....?
i would check your fluid somtimes all the oil leaks out. how long have you had the car? i've seen them where someone put autotransmission fluid in them. are you talking about in nuetral when you are moving? if you are moving and you keep the car in gear and push in the clutch and the noise goes away it's in the clutch. it could also be the pilot bearing in the flywheel they will change pitch under load. i will stay up for a little while but if i go to sleep email me alright? let me know whats going on.

[lostforawhile]

try this get the car rolling at about 25 miles an hour then push the clutch in if the noise goes away you probably have clutch problems if it stays you have transmission or driveshaft problems. what kind of noise is coming from the transmission? does it get worse when you turn left or right? you have to have the car rolling so the transmission is turning without help from the motor. also try the same thing but coast in nuetral if the noise is the same it's the diff in the transmission or a driveshaft. check the fluid, there are two plugs, the upper plug is hex shaped for a socket you should be able to stick your finger in there and feel oil. these cars take motor oil for the manual transmissions, honda says 5-w30 but i run 10-w40 here's where my air suction valve used to be. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/Image00040.jpg give me the best description of the noise you can

[jaiden]

yes if the car is moving and I hit the cluch it goes quiet. or if I put it in neutral and let the cluch out it goes quiet.

it's a really loud rattle/grinding noise. loud enough that when I'm on the phone in the car people say "what's that noise?"

[jaiden]

the car is 292000 miles, and I changed the tranny fluid for the first time since I've owned it about 3 mo ago with 10-40

[lostforawhile]

yea i'm almost positive you've got a clutch problem of some description probably something broke in the clutch. when you are moving and push in the clutch everything in the transmission is moving exactly the same the only variable is the clutch assembly. possibly in the release bearing or the pilot bearing. all that should be replaced anyway when you change a clutch . it sounds like the clutch is making noise under load. it still could be a remote possibility that it's the transmission but my moneys on the clutch. that tiny pilot bearing in the middle of the flywheel can make one hell ofa racket too.

[jaiden]

I was thinking that since it didn't seem to make noise when coasting in neutral with the cluch pedal released that it wasn't the cluch. But, since it really makes noise under load I guess you may be right. It can't be under load in neutral.

The only other thing that makes me think tranny is that It seems to be somewhat speed depenedant, not rpm dependant. but who knows? I will check the fluid... maybe even drain it and look for metal chips.

[AZmike]

Does the transmission make the noise the same way no matter what gear you're in? How about reverse (if you can hear it over the whine)? The fact that the noise seems to be speed and load dependant makes me think that it may be a bearing or something else in your transmission. When you're not putting torque thorough the tranny the loads are much lower so it follows that the noise wouldn't be as loud. There is a magnet in the transmission, so you shouldn't see any steel chips.

I didn't read anything that makes me think the clutch is at fault. Just because disengaging the clutch changes the noise doesn't mean that it's bad.

[lostforawhile]

lets hope it's just the clutch it sounds like it to me. he will have to pull it out anyway to remove the transmission. then if he sees something broke in the clutch he can fix it. mine did that for a while it had broken a clutch spring. once i replaced the clutch the noise went away. if you are moving with the car in gear and the noise goes away when you push the clutch the transmission is still under load from the inertia of the car it's still turning. the only variable is the clutch assembly. did we ever solve the debate on the pilot bearing? some people ssay they don't have one, some do. i know mine had one because i replaced it last clutch job. if his has a pilot bearing it will make a loud grinding noise whenever the transmission is under load if it's bad. oh he might be looking for an air suction valve if his is leaking exaust. anyone got one?

[AZmike]

There is no pilot bearing.

Just because the transmission is in gear doesn't mean that it is transmitting torque (under load). At any speed there is be a throttle position between engine braking and acceleration that the engine produces just enough power to overcome its drag for that engine speed, transmitting zero torque through the tranny. The gears would be spinning, but the transmission would not be under load. A clutch noise would be a function of engine speed, not road speed. Hopefully I'm wrong; I'd rather do a clutch job than have to go chasing bad parts in the transmission.

[lostforawhile]

that must be another modification i didn't know about because mine def had a pilot bearing. there may be some internal engine mods i didn't know about eithier. this engine is def generating a lot more power then it's supposed to with what i've done. i know the engine was worked on before i got it.

[lostforawhile]

There is no pilot bearing.

Just because the transmission is in gear doesn't mean that it is transmitting torque (under load). At any speed there is be a throttle position between engine braking and acceleration that the engine produces just enough power to overcome its drag for that engine speed, transmitting zero torque through the tranny. The gears would be spinning, but the transmission would not be under load. A clutch noise would be a function of engine speed, not road speed. Hopefully I'm wrong; I'd rather do a clutch job than have to go chasing bad parts in the transmission. i was talking about the inertial weight of the car. usually when a car is rolling and a noise goes away when you push the clutch pedal ,it's the clutch. he will have to pull the transmission anyway. did you do a thread on baffling your oil pan? i was going to run a moroso accumulator with an aeroquip oil to water cooler. how well does the baffling work when making hard corners?

[jaiden]

Ugh. this morning, the car started making HORRIBLE screeching nosies under load and missing. I took it to a transmission shop, since I have to work today. When the guy was test driving it, it wouldn't go into gear at a stop light.

So it looks like I'll be paying through the nose for a tranny today.

and renting a car.

ugh

[lostforawhile]

i really wonder if that could be the clutch release bearing?? that would keep it from going into gear if it broke and would screech like that keep me updated

[jaiden]

is that otherwise called a throwout bearing?

[jaiden]

you may be right, but I think the transmission guy doesn't want to take off the tranny unless he has a new one to put on. Same with me really. I will try to find a tranny, and see if I can get the car home.. Then I can rent a car during the week to get to work, and work on it at night. If it's just the bearing, then it's an easy fix. If not, then at least I have the part ready to go on the car.

[lostforawhile]

good point then if it's something simple you have a spare transmiswsion.

[blahblahblah]

I REALLY think you have a bad secro...REALLY REALLY REALLLLLYYYY think it is...I have a friend that went thu them like like gas in a chevy. the stuff that went wroung all the time..You seem to be having

[jaiden]

sorry.. "Secro"? I dunno what that is.

[lostforawhile]

he means syncro the things that make you be able to shift gears without that grinding noise or having to double clutch.

[blahblahblah]

ya thx...I know I didnt spell it right