87 Honda Accord idling/stalling issues

[aeongap]

I have an 87 Honda Accord carbeurated with about 215000 miles on it.
Anyway, when I start it I really have to pump the gas and crank the key (almost like it's flooded) but only if it's been running and the engine is already warm. When it's cold it starts nearly instantly. Also, it has started to stall when I stop the car just recently.
About 4 months ago I had a lot of work done to it, had the ball joints and CV joints replaced, the timing belt, new water pump, new cap and rotor, torque rod bushing, new alternator. And it ran great until just recently.

I'm thinking it may be from a bad batch of gas that I got a couple weeks ago, because it started right after that. But since then I've put in top of the line gas twice and it still is doing the same thing, if not getting worse.

What do you suggest?

Thanks.

[Lester Lugnut]

I'll start with something simple.

When the motor is warm, do the following:

a. Put key in ignition switch
b. Depress accelerator pedal all the way to the floor and HOLD it there. Do not pump it.
c. With accelerator pedal fully depressed to the floor, turn the ign. switch to start the car.

You may be running rich when warm. Pumping the pedal isn't going to help that situation. Leaving the accelerator pedal depressed may help clear excess fuel.

This technique applies to carbs; not FI.

[aeongap]

OK, but would this explain why it's been stalling too? I was thinking of getting a fuel system flush and cleaning. Do you think this would possibly help the situation or is it a waste of money?

[ShimriC]

I have an 87 Honda Accord carbeurated with about 215000 miles on it.
but only if it's been running and the engine is already warm. When it's cold it starts nearly instantly. Also, it has started to stall when I stop the car just recently.
About 4 months ago I had a lot of work done to it, had the ball joints and CV joints replaced, the timing belt, new water pump, new cap and rotor, torque rod bushing, new alternator. And it ran great until just recently.

I'm thinking it may be from a bad batch of gas that I got a couple weeks ago, because it started right after that. But since then I've put in top of the line gas twice and it still is doing the same thing, if not getting worse.

What do you suggest?

Thanks.

Sounds like a bad carb your best bet would be to get a whole new one,. once these things go there a pain to try to get right,. mine had the same problem. You might neew new spark plugs or a distributor,. you might not be getting spark,. have someone look at the exhaust and see if gas is spurting out.

[aeongap]

Is there a quick temporary fix that I can do, because I don't want to spend another $500 on the carb plus labour when I just spent $1500 on it 6 months ago. The car itself is barely worth that much.

I tried spraying in carb cleaner, but not sure if that really worked. Is there something else I could try? The next thing I'm gonna try is to change the primary and secondary fuel filters......

[aeongap]

I sprayed carb cleaner in the carb and it seemed to help a little bit, it starts right away now and it doesn't stall when I stop and push the clutch in.

The only thing now is that there seems to be air coming from somewhere in that area. What could this be? It sounds almost like it is from the gasket underneath the air intake filter.

Any suggestions?

[A20A1]

I sprayed carb cleaner in the carb and it seemed to help a little bit, it starts right away now and it doesn't stall when I stop and push the clutch in.

The only thing now is that there seems to be air coming from somewhere in that area. What could this be? It sounds almost like it is from the gasket underneath the air intake filter.

Any suggestions?


Well air is sucked in through the air suction port inside the air filter.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38108

If you want to look for vacuum leaks or adjust the carb while it's running then look at the thread above.

[VTEC_Inside]

I like blamming the choke for everything, since its been the core cause of a lot of my problems.

Have a look and see what its doing.

[squil]

I got the same problem on my 89 Accord. It was caused by adding injactor cleaner into gas. It recovered for two weeks after I simplely clean carburetor. However, it become worse again now. I alreadly adjust idle speed to 1000. It will stall sudddenly when it is in neutral gear or continuously step three times brake.

Could you give some suggestions? Thanks!

[POS carb]

i think you have a thermovalve-related vacuum leak, check the vacuum lines that plug into the lower rear of the intake manifold. If the car is leaning out when it's warm that can be the only issue b/c cold air makes an engine lean out more than hot air. That thermovalve is probably ffallen apart

[POS carb]

oh also make sure the vacuum line to the power valve is still good, if it's broken the car will run rich

[kcaudill]

Where would one find the powervalve and thermovalve? And how would one know if the valves are bad or good??

[VTEC_Inside]

Where would one find the powervalve and thermovalve? And how would one know if the valves are bad or good??

I believe the powervalve is on the back of the carb. I've never had a problem with mine so I can't help you too much there.

There are at least 3 thermovalves on the car. If you download the service manual from here there are diagnostic instructions. All they do is bleed or block vacuum based on engine coolant temp. I believe I have bypassed Theremovalve B on my car. Its the one that bleeds vacuum going to the secondary opener until the car is warm, mine was bleeding constantly = no secondary = 50hp instead of 98hp, lol...

I can get into more detail if you are having a specific problem. This board is great for keeping these old carbed cars running well. My own Honda mechanic couldn't solve problems that I have just by reading and asking around on here.

[A20A1]

Where would one find the powervalve and thermovalve? And how would one know if the valves are bad or good??

download the honda shop manual from Pauls website.

It will explain where and how to test the thermovalve... all you need really is a vacuum gauge...

Basicly though thermovalves are there to supply vacuum at a certain coolant temp, and the cut off or bleed off the vacuum supply at a different coolant temp.

The valve is bad when it doesn't open or close when the the right coolant temperature is reached.

I doubt the powervalve is bad... the power valve opener is in the top hat and had a spring on it.... to remove the top hat and inspect the powervalve opener go to the link below.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=5350

when vacuum is applied to the power valve opener at idle, the powervalve is shut... when you open the throttle, vacuum drops and the spring forces the opener down, which pushes the powervalve open.

as long as the opener retracts up into the top hat when you apply vacuum it should be fine... it may bleed vacuum slightly but as long as it stays retracted with 20 or so inches of vacuum it should be fine.

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[kcaudill]

Thanks for the info. So in other words a thermovalve and powervalve are just switches turning things on and off by temp. It is a manual way of doing this instead of a ECU electronicly. Ok my next question is what are the valves controlling. Idle, high speed operations, ? The reason for asking is that I have a low idle miss, but it is worse at one point and barely there at other times. It usually ranges from idle 800~900 rpm to 2000rpm. It is so violent sometimes that it will vibrate the entire car, then sometimes I can barely feel it. I have noticed that on long trips 75 + miles that it will not be very noticeable, however after stopping at a red light then going to another red light the vibration (miss) will start to increase. Things that I have already changed are: coil, cap, rotor, wires, NGK installed plugs, & both fuel filters. If I didnt mention:89 accord 4dr LX 200k miles, I believe a hitachi distributor.