Maken an STi killer, NEED HELP!

[ZackieDarko]

1.) im gonna make an STi killer!

2.) 300whp (it can be more than 300 but im shoot'en for at least that much)

3.) $7,000 budget

4.) no time limit

This is where you guys come in!

THere are alot of people on here that know alot about this stuff and yes I have used the search on the site and I

have learned alot of stuff. I have a basic idea of what to do but I would value all of your advice alot.

Thinking of geting a B20 from Japan land or just picking up another A20A3 and tearing it down my self and sending

the block off to have work done to it.
-should i get it bored? re-sleved and bored?
-new cank? stock crank?
-new rods? stock rods?
-new pistons? stock pistons?

Should I get I get the head P&P and have the ports mached to fit the B18C intake manifold? Or should I use a stock

manifold? I am planing on a 3 angel valve job. Should i go for new valves? will larger or valves made of different

materials work? (titanium maybe?) Im thinking new springs and a more agressive cam set up for a turbo application.

Speaking of the turbo what is a "commen" one used (if there is such a thing for our cars)? One off a WRX imprezza?

one off an eclipse? any suggestions here for the turbo its slef? how about intercoolers?

Now with all this power i will need to stop better! i nopi.com has slotted rotors for the '86 Accord and i was

thinking about that. What about a conversion in the rear from drums to discs? will i need a new caliper setup in the

front and what kind of car could i salvage a rear disc setup from?

so lets review what i have talked about so far:

A20A3 or B20?
Rods
Pistons
Turbo, Intercooler
Head (P&P ports matched to new manifold), Valves, Springs, Intake Manifold

have i missed anything?

keep in mind there is a $7,000 budget and I want at least 300whp and I would be doing the tear down and instilation

of the engine and related compnents my self. I would need to outsource the actual machine'en part of the job but all

assembly and instilation work would be done by me.

ANY help, suggestions, and advice is GREATLY appriciated

-ZackieDarko

[shepherd79]

buddy,
i think first you should save more money if you want 300hp. that much money will get you to about 200 may be 230hp.
you will need at least double of what you have if you want reliable ride.

second, before you do anything you should do a lot of research about the turbo, diff turbo manifolds and so on and on. lets not forget about fuel management. you have three choices: 1. hack on job with check valves and stock ECU. it may work but you have higher chance of blowing the motor. 2. convert to OBD1 electrical system. not too many people have done it. and 3. use stand a lone management system.

another thing, are you going to stay with A series or are you going with B series motor.

there are a lot of things to consider, but with your budget don't even dream about 300hp.

[A20A1]

Our A20 doesn't use sleeves and it's closed deck.

The information is on the board already:
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=133

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11356

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=44292

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=18160

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37494

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=39711
.
.
.
.

[w00tw00t111]

buddy,
there are a lot of things to consider, but with your budget don't even dream about 300hp.
With 7k 300hp should be relatively simple if he sticks w/ his a20. Now in regards to having an sti killer 300hp is not going to be enough IMO for two reasons
1. Sti 300hp(underrated) AWD vs our 300hp super lack of traction Fwd
2. AWD!! And LSD!!! You honestly probably wouldn't stand much of a chance unless the STI driver doesn't really know how to drive. Not to knock on your parade but, it just isn't going to be enough. You should be able to put up a pretty good fight but if you want to kill them then you might want to start with a little better base like an STI :rofl:

With 7k I can see myself with 300hp easily and maybe money left over for glamour parts. The only reason I know is because I'm shooting for the same amount and know how much I've spent. So here's the list:
t3/t4 turbo, Waste Gate, Greddy BOV $325
Greddy 12"x32"x3" FMIC $200
P75 ECU $75
Uberdata chip $15
Diamond Forged Pistons $500
450cc DSM injectors $50
b18 intake $200
93 Accord Distributer $125
tri plate clutch $300 (I think)
P&P on head as well as 3angle valve job $550
Oil Lines $20
Walbaro 255lph fuel pump $75
Piping $50
LSD $800
Tuning $125
Total = $3410 Rounded up to $3500 for misclanious
So you've just spent half of your budget so it really shouldn't be much of a concern. And since youre spring for that 800 LSD traction should not be a problem so you can boost till your heart is content.

[Accordtheory]

stock ls + reasonably sized turbo + good tuning, easy 300whp. buy my turbo off ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsubishi-big-16g-turbo_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ79935 24560QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW) (shameless..I know) get a dsm flanged manifold, uberdata an ls ecu, get an ls cable tranny, etc. U can do all that for Way under $7k..with bfg dr's you might stand a chance, hondas have horrible traction.

[Accordtheory]

Okay, this is really starting to piss me off. Why is it that I every time I type certain words, like turbo, thay are automatically a link? Can i disable that?

[A20A1]

nope

[SteveDX89]

300 whp on 7K is almost too easy these days.

[RobT5580]

300 whp on 7K is almost too easy these days.

Yeah but not with the accord though. Money goes fast when your doing custom stuff and the big issue with turbo is tuning. If you want to make power reliably tuning is the number one priority hands down. There are people making that power on stock blocks but they spent good money on a reputable tuner to get there and quality parts are key.

If your gonna boost stick to the A20 rather than B20 cause its a solid bottom end and you need the same custom stuff so its better to stick to the A20 for many reasons.

[Vanilla Sky]

i think it can be done. just not reliably.

personally, i'd get new rods, new pistons, overbore the block, have everything cryo treated.

P&P the head, larger valves, probably a lighter material. stronger valvesprings are a MUST. 5 angle valve job, also. these heads have a 3 angle stock.

equal length turbo manifold, custom intake manifold.

i think i'll stop there because it's been explained pretty well already.

[ZackieDarko]

thanks for the help guys

ok so maybe taken an STi with a decent drive is a bit of a strech but you know it would be so great to beat an STi in a 3g ...just the stupified look on the drivers face and on all those that watched..it would be fun

well thanks for the suggestions and if any of you know of any where i can get ANY of these parts and/or any shops in the lower 48 or in Vancouver (sp) Canadia then let me know pleaseeeeeeeee

[superaccord]

If you have done your research, you would know that the rear disk brakes come from an se-i. Our generation. Good luck w/ everything.

[bobafett]

http://www.dept25.com/cars/accord/images/rods2.jpg

hehe thats the start of my build... im sure the motor is easily capable of 300-500 whp if i were boosting it, but im just running NA. pm me and i can give you a phone number of someone who can probably help u get that goal.. :)

[SteveDX89]

Shame there's no more B swap kits. 300 whp on a stock motor is within fairly easy reach

[bobafett]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=45828
yes but they work in an a20 as long as u have custom pistons. :)

these are going to be used in a built a20...

[bobafett]

yeah definetly start keeping track of my "just another rebuild" thread in the performance forum... as soon as i get the rods to the shop, im ordering pistons, and then bearings... then as much machine work as i "can" do before sending it all off to get cryo'd...

the project should start moving really fast in about 3 weeks to a month once those pistons get made... the price isnt too bad yet. but once i order pistons that will set me back a bit. hehe...

[bobafett]

i hope not. i called them last week. and they indicated that from the time they receive payment, the pistons would ship in 10 business days. ill be realistic and hope to get them in 3-4 weeks. :) my machine shop is pretty speedy when i need them to be. so im not worried. plus it will take tiem to get the bearings in, and figure out whats going on for valves.. eventually i will hit a snag where i have to wait forever for parts... but so far so good. :)

[bobafett]

dunno yet. im probably gonna buy the stuff that lowtek has for sale... titanium retainers.. high compression valve springs, and forged valves... but thats only if i stay with stock size... would be nicer to step up to the larger valve setup.

useing exhaust valves as intake valves, and using custom larger intake valves... might cost a bit. so i gotta find out cost/availability of this setup. but i know the hp gains will be be pretty major.

[86 barnstormer]

how much do they weigh in comparison? you prolly won't have to make 300 and can spend the rest on getting traction

[SteveDX89]

STi's put about 230-235 to the wheels and weigh around 3000-3200 lb.

[Baveara]

hey on the valves i was wondering if we could use the new beehive springs that comp has come out with. just thought that would help bring reliable high rpms.

[Slipknotcraig133]

go to si valves. I called a guy there and to get there swirl valve for our heads it will cost us 30 a valve so that comes to 360 plus shipping.

[86 barnstormer]

230 to 235 to the wheels? are you sure.
the SRT-4 puts out that much so it 's got to be more than that cause i know a STI would hand me my ass. i have yet to race one though.

[Vanilla Sky]

drivetrain loss.

[SteveDX89]

230 to 235 to the wheels? are you sure.
the SRT-4 puts out that much so it 's got to be more than that cause i know a STI would hand me my ass. i have yet to race one though.

Saw a dyno chart of a stock STi.

[bobafett]

dont worry.. even with similar WHP, the STi probably has more torque and a better curve. one thing it DEFINETLY has is AWD and traction... something that srt-4s are really know for. its probably only a little more than one second faster than the neon. with 6 gears and traction, u can put a few car lenths on a neon that are hard to make up...

[w00tw00t111]

230 to 235 to the wheels? are you sure.
the SRT-4 puts out that much so it 's got to be more than that cause i know a STI would hand me my ass. i have yet to race one though.
230 to the crank. If you take the typical 15% loss it'll come out to 195.5whp.

[Accordtheory]

Saw a dyno chart of a stock Sti? Did you see it run at the track, too? because none of this is adding up. Srt-4, low 14s, right? I could slowly pull on those on the streets with my stock a20 boosting 13psi. Stock STi, that shit would embarrass my accord, isn't it like a whole second faster than the regular wrx? What do the Sti's run, like 13.4 or so?
Anyway, seriously, B-series is the way to go. modifying the a20 is like hitting your head against a brick wall. So far I have an ls with a gsr crank, eagle rods, endyn pistons, and the skunk 2 intake. The turbo will probably be flow wise similar to precision's sc-61,that's all I'll say about that, management undecided, cams probably crower 404s with valvesprings and retainers, (if I don't get a b16 head) flywheel will act streetlite, with a full face disk and a stiff ass pressure plate, etc, etc. How much of this shit can you get for the a20? Virtually None. How much of this b series shit can you get with $7k? A hell of a lot more than I have..(and you won't have to go into credit card debt like me, either!)

[ZackieDarko]

nothing about this build is set in stone

even if the finished product doesnt beat an STi in a drag race it will be ok! all i want is a minimum of 300whp it can and will be done, damn the STi to hell if need be!

300whp is all i am looking for here. my daily driver and weekend warrior. its all i want.

[AccordEpicenter]

for 7k you could go probably go into the 11s if you know your shit and spend wisely. Tuning is the key, and dont halfass stuff and youll be fine

[88turboaccord]

I have an sti killer... nothing close to a honda.


$7k will probably get ther if you spent the money wisely---but I doubt it will happen. I remember I ran an 87-88 prelude that had all this shi---stuff done to it--turbocharged-blah-blah blah---Off the line, that car did not even stand a chance, on the freeway, he did okay---I still put about 2 cars on him but 100mph and still pulling away....

I think you should just save your $7k for something else--something better for the future.

[86 barnstormer]

if you can make anywhere from 250 to 300 i think it would be plenty enough to demolish ALOT of cars out there. getting it to hook is going to be more of a problem than reaching your targeted horse power level.

[Justin86]

well I'm still working on the OBD-1 stuff and a good source for chipped ECU's for everyone to make it as bolt on as possible. But getting enought whp to compete with an STi I think is very doable and still be under budget.

[88accordhb]

just get a scooter.

[SteveDX89]

A stock STi is putting out 300 at the crank. Where did 230 come from? A typical front drive drivetrain loses around 15-20%. An AWD drivetrain takes even more. If you want to see where I got 230 whp on an STi, please read the October 2004 issuse of Motor Trend when they compared it to the EVO. It also made a quarter mile pass at 13.3 @ 100.1 mph. An SRT-4 has 215 or 230 crank hp depending on year. The 230 hp models run 13.99 @ 102.72 mph. That info. is in the August 2003 issue of Motor Trend.

[88accordhb]

A stock STi is putting out 300 at the crank. Where did 230 come from? A typical front drive drivetrain loses around 15-20%. An AWD drivetrain takes even more. If you want to see where I got 230 whp on an STi, please read the October 2004 issuse of Motor Trend when they compared it to the EVO. It also made a quarter mile pass at 13.3 @ 100.1 mph. An SRT-4 has 215 or 230 crank hp depending on year. The 230 hp models run 13.99 @ 102.72 mph. That info. is in the August 2003 issue of Motor Trend.
yep, i read that one too, many are confused by chp and whp.

[AccordEpicenter]

you should be able to smoke an sti with less than half that money if you spend wisely, i think spending 7k on a car is alot personally

[86 barnstormer]

215 to 230 that's at the wheels on the srt not the crank

[SteveDX89]

215 to 230 that's at the wheels on the srt not the crank

Motor Trend doesn't list whp in their spec boxes. If it says 230 hp, that's the claimed crank hp from the manufacturer.

[w00tw00t111]

Motor Trend doesn't list whp in their spec boxes. If it says 230 hp, that's the claimed crank hp from the manufacturer.
Exactly. If you look at dodge's spec list it shows 230 to the crank not to the wheels. There is a BIG difference!

[Accordtheory]

I just didn't realize the sti's drivetrain was that inefficient..i wonder how that percentage of loss changes as wph goes up..?

What kind of gas mileage does an sti get, anyone?

[Vanilla Sky]

it's AWD, that's why it's so lossy.

[SteveDX89]

230 whp from 300 crank hp is only a 23% loss.