A20A Reuild + Swap , 2nd Gen Accord , Weber Carbed [Archive] - 3geez.com

phrenology

05-25-2003, 09:26 PM

I've been having problems with my Power Steering system in my 84 Accord LX Hatchback. I discovered through posts on here and other experiences that if Honda PS fluid isn't used consistently that it will damage the rack and pinion seals. I removed the belt from the power steering pump completely because I think the pump has broken down and the rack and pinion is leaking fluid. It's hard to drive but not impossible. I eventually want to do a complete swap of an A20 carburated for my aging ES2. Should I wait to do all the PS replacement after I do the swap and use an A20 PS pump or should I worry about replacing the pump ASAP? The rack and pinion rebuild kit is about $80 and a rebuilt one is $125. I also have a wealth of parts from 2 1985 Accord LX sedans to draw from, but my friend just sold the rack from the one we pulled. In addition to the PS problems, my AC system doesn't work at all. The compressor is shot an has to be replaced, but again should I waste the money on one for my ES2 engine? If anyone has done an A20 swap for a carburated G2 Accord could you give me some tips as to what accessories I have to replace to make the swap? I already have all of the carburation parts for a dual Weber set up.

phrenology

01-10-2005, 09:02 AM

Here's my A20A3 swap motor. Its been blue printed, new pistons, new rings, new wrist pins, new bearings, bored +.020, milled true, crank balanced, new freeze plugs, new oil pump, cleaned and tested. The head was done by my friend at Sidewinder Racing. He did a valve job, shaved it -.025, polished, lapped the valve seats, cleaned and polished the cam.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/A20A3_after.jpg
:rockon:

SteveDX89

01-10-2005, 09:06 AM

What's done to it that cost so much?

phrenology

01-10-2005, 09:47 AM

Its been rebuilt top to bottom. It cost less than another A20A3 low mileage motor with shipping and core. That rusted piece of crap was it before the rebuild:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/A20A3_before.jpg

HondaBoy

01-10-2005, 11:01 AM

was that it before? dirty ass lookin engine. you wouldnt happen to have any hp #'s on it now would you? so that is indeed going into the '84 accord? that should be pretty cool. i'm sure the 2nd gen accord is a bit lighter than the 3gee. that's going to be a nice swap there.

bobafett

01-10-2005, 06:13 PM

looks really good. hopefully i will get my motor rebuilt in the next year (im smoking bad on any cold start and under any accelleration :( )

2ndgenludedude1986

01-18-2005, 08:33 PM

purdey

BlueBead

01-19-2005, 01:45 AM

That thing is nice!
My head looked really nice (like yours) until I put it back on the old, dirty block. I'd love to get my bottom end as spiffed as yours is though.. guess it'll have to wait for now :damn!

rjudgey

01-21-2005, 10:13 AM

nice one!
If only they stayed that clean when they go back in!! Mind you at least his block is black and won't be able to see any oil leaks!! Did mine blue and looks well dirty after 30K!!

Baveara

01-30-2005, 01:40 PM

How much did it cost for thew rebuilding of the sexy engine?

Baveara

01-30-2005, 01:43 PM

do you happen to know how much it cost to rebuild that sexy engine?

phrenology

02-02-2005, 10:24 AM

I didn't paint it, the engine lab did. I should have requested Chevy Orange or Ford Blue just to be sacreligious, Hah. Naw the motor hasn't gone in yet, I'm waiting for my shaved flywheel. They did a real nice job with it, I could eat off a block that clean, but then I'd get taco sauce in the cylinder.

phrenology

02-02-2005, 10:46 AM

I had the block work done here in Tampa at a professional rebuild shop. The cost came in a little under $1200 with parts, labor, and balancing. Not bad considering the longevity you can get out of a professionally rebuilt A20. I really didn't want to pay more than $800 but I think its gonna be worth it. It's been modified slightly but its going to be a street/daily driver setup. The headwork was done by my friend at a DSM mod shop called Sidewinder Racing. He did it at machining cost. With all of the DSM work he does he still loves Honda's bullet proof motor technology. I also got a new rebuilt and warrantied E2Q5 5 speed manual tranny to mate with it for under $500. The next big step is designing and machining the manifold. Check my cardomain page for updates on the rebuild.

Vanilla Sky

02-02-2005, 01:22 PM

that's gonna be nice... by manifold, do you mean you're building your own intake manifold? that's cool... i've wanted to do that...

danronian

02-02-2005, 03:59 PM

I looked up the price for a Jasper rebuilt motor and it is $2317! $1200 is a great deal since it is basically the same thing just not done by a national name. I think I am going to get mine rebuilt once it starts to eat up oil but that should be a while since right now it burns almost none at all and it's at about 180Kmi. I just hope this used tranny works out for me, I won't know until tomorrow afternoon when I get to pay the $250 and take it for a spin. That is quite a nice looking engine.

NXRacer

02-02-2005, 04:40 PM

thats a nice looking motor you have there. :thumbup:

phrenology

02-04-2005, 08:58 AM

Yeah, the manifold is gonna one piece of billet aluminum milled out and port matched with 4 independent runners for the DCOEs. I'm probably gonna have Nitrous ports added for future a upgrade. I wanted to ram tune it but space is limited to extend it in the Accord bay. What I don't like about the A20 heads is the resticted oval intake port compared with the perfect circle ports of the E series heads.

phrenology

02-04-2005, 09:04 AM

I hope the rebuild gets finished, I've been attacking the body on my hatchback while I wait for the rest of the engine parts. Has anybody been able to get either head studs or flywheel bolts from ARP? I've asked around and most people's response is "your application is outdated" but I'm thinking there are parts out there you just need to give them dimensions and not engine or car info.

hondamotorz

02-04-2005, 09:51 AM

looks good man hopefully i will get my motor rebuilt soon i already have 212,000 miles on it but its a honda it will last longer

phrenology

02-28-2005, 07:18 PM

Hey geez checkout the build progress. With alot of computer hassle I finally updated my cardomain site tonight with new pics of the flywheel/tranny and I have a new poll up, so be sure to vote. If anyone has any questions relating to my rebuild than ask away. :pc:

bobafett

02-28-2005, 07:24 PM

88accordhb

02-28-2005, 08:02 PM

facking sweet bro, wat kinda mounts are you using?

phrenology

02-28-2005, 08:24 PM

thats awesome man...

im interested in the internals that you used?

did you get aftermarket valves, reuse stock ones, or get new stock ones?

how much did you bore the motor out ? (im planning on .020)

do you have any performance parts in there like better bearings or oil pump?

I had the motor rebuilt to a OEM specs but they did over bore 0.20 and put new pistons/rings/pins/bearings in. I had the crank balanced too. They put a new oil pump in and its getting all brand new accessory pumps. My friend did all the head work. He did a 3 angle grind on the seats, and rebuilt the valve train. I had the head shaved down -0.25. I'm still contemplating going with the copper head gasket. I know I won't have the CR that warrants a copper one but I like the safety and reuse benefits if its installed correctly.

This car is gonna be a daily driver for now, so I didn't want to go crazy with performance internals. When I get out west I'm gonna look for a shop to do more serious work at. I'm probably gonna pick up a spare head and do some major work to it in the future. I can find A20As and heads real easy out there.
Eventually when I can afford another car I want to make this one into an amateur rally car. I really don't have a lot of interest on building a drift, drag or show car.

phrenology

02-28-2005, 08:32 PM

facking sweet bro, wat kinda mounts are you using?

I'm going with brand new A20 mounts in the rear. I have to swap out the left mount bracket on the block from the A20 to the ES so it will sit right. The front mount is my only concern, I want to use the hydro mount from the 88' but I have to modify the cross member with mounting studs or a threaded steel plate. F*cking Honda pisses me off sometimes...I know they never engineered the cars for this swap but the friggin' bolt holes for the front cross member are like 1/16" off from the 88' to the 84' They even kept the damn widths the same despite the 3' overall width increase between G2s-G3s. I guess when you're swapping nothing is easy.

bobafett

02-28-2005, 08:57 PM

thanks for the reply

88LXi68

02-28-2005, 09:27 PM

Looks like a nice clean build, its nice to see a 2g getting a makeover

phrenology

02-28-2005, 10:50 PM

Sorry to be a post whore...but I meant to make this post here and not in the Market. I updated my Cardomain page tonight so checkout. I have a new poll up too, be sure to vote. Please leave your comments and I will checkout your rides too. Let me know if you have any questions I still have a ways to go with the rebuild. This is gonna be a "resticifaction" car so any input you have is great. No time for Rice...only Rally

Oh yeah real quickie...is there anyway to determine where the engine block was cast? Are their Japanese and US made A20 blocks or did only the JDM's come from Japan? Do the serial #s hold the answer?

Vanilla Sky

03-01-2005, 01:37 AM

the beginnings of a monster...

i would like to see that thing... hell, you're not far from me... maybe you tampa guys can set up a minimeet and we can check that beast out

A20A1

03-01-2005, 02:22 AM

So you bought one of the Dual A20A DCOE manifolds on Honda-Tech or made your own?

SQ is the SQUAD

03-01-2005, 06:22 AM

keep up the work, if you come accross any resources on how to rebuild some solex addhe carbs let me know

phrenology

03-01-2005, 07:06 AM

keep up the work, if you come accross any resources on how to rebuild some solex addhe carbs let me know

I believe Mikuni/Solex's are simular to Webers in most operations, I'm concentrating on strictly DCOEs but if you have any particular Carb questions I might be able to help. Phydeux seems real knowledgable about Carbs too.

Awhile back when the hatchback was running under ES power I took it to the Honda Dealer for an oil change. I told the mechanic I was gonna do a Weber conversion, and he was all "No, no, no, use Mikunis". I hear that Mikunis are a bit more stable and reliable than Webers. Tuning performance carbs is something of a black art I suppose.

hondamanlxi

03-01-2005, 08:08 AM

you might as well cut the head down some. Its cheap, easy hp. Ive got mine shaved .05 but that is about the max you can go.

SQ is the SQUAD

03-01-2005, 08:46 AM

i heard the solex are better for beginners. they are esier to turn. i had 3 so i took one apart and it seem simple but i still dont know anything about carbs so i still have to either ask questions or read up, the only problem is i have a hard time reading and understanding, i need things explained to me

2old_honda

03-02-2005, 02:27 PM

acco-R-d

03-02-2005, 02:31 PM

good job! what intake manifold r u going to use??

phrenology

03-02-2005, 09:30 PM

Looks good!

What intake manifold are you going to be using? Aaron at weirRacing made one for my DCOE's. you can check it out here- http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1161419&page=1
I believe he is selling them for $250 (awesome deal for the amount of labor involved in making one of these)
Email him at [email protected] if you are interested. tell him that Patrick sent you.

His manifold doesn't look half bad and $250 is about the price that ready-mades were going for dual DCOE Honda ES motor manifolds. The plan is designing one from scratch in the upcoming weeks. It will be a big moment for this build. My design engineer is attempting to design and fabricate it out of one piece billet-aluminum. My hope is to add nitrous ports for future upgrades. If all goes well I'll be a happy hondaboy and there wil be plenty of pics, I'm sure.

phrenology

03-02-2005, 09:35 PM

Looks good!

What intake manifold are you going to be using? Aaron at weirRacing made one for my DCOE's. you can check it out here- http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1161419&page=1
I believe he is selling them for $250 (awesome deal for the amount of labor involved in making one of these)
Email him at [email protected] if you are interested. tell him that Patrick sent you.

How is your set up running? Hmmm, what vehicle are you running it in? Oh yeah I have more Weber questions too...40's or 45's and what are you tuning for torque or top end speed? If you have pics of your set up that would be cool too. Phydeux and rjudgey are the only other DCOEheads I've encounter on here. Glad to see more of us!!! Keep em' flowin'!!!

A20A1

03-02-2005, 11:02 PM

snoopyloopy

03-13-2005, 10:00 PM

looks good man hopefully i will get my motor rebuilt soon i already have 212,000 miles on it but its a honda it will last longer

yes, i must say the same. i'm fast approaching 215k on my a20a3 and it's running well enough. could be better, but it works for now.

phrenology

03-29-2005, 10:57 AM

As most of you know I'm doing a DCOE x2 A20A3 swap into my 84 Hatchback. Perhaps you can help (Phydeaux if you're still about).This is an issue I wrestled with in the beginning and soon will be a problem that I have to deal with. I know its possible to rebuild 84-85 Accord shafts with G3 splines at the inboard end but does anyone know for sure if the 85 Se-i shafts have G2 outboard/G3 inboard splines. Is it a combo shaft or did the Se-i (ES3 powered) use a 3G type transmission/differential with G3 splines across the board and have 3G diameter hubs. I find it hard to believe that Honda would cast a special 85 Se-i knuckle/hub with larger bearings.

According to my 85 service manual the Se-i had larger inboard spring clips (splines too!) than the carbed ES2 but doesn't mention a size difference at the outboard side. The only 85 Se-i that I seen up close (they're so rare) was at the junkyard and I didn't examine the outboard spline diameter carefully cause we were concentrating on extracting the immaculate leather interior. When I came back the 3rd time to look at the Se-i drivetrain it was gone! I think someone realised what the car was and bought the whole car with the untouched engine!

Anyway if anyone knows for sure then I can buy the 85 Se-i shafts rebuilt from Advance for a good deal and I won't have to get messy with axle grease and new boots. Those Se-i shafts are different part numbers than both the 2 and 3 Gee standard and auto transmissions. The damn rebuild kit is almost as much as the whole reman. shaft minus the core charge. Thanks Geeez
:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

rjudgey

03-29-2005, 12:03 PM

If i remember correctly phydeux changed the diff from the 2G into the 3G box then he could use his shafts? Does that sound right? Thats pretty much how i understand from what he told me and also on the Hybrid Teg box info. Hope that helps?

A20A1

03-29-2005, 12:46 PM

I believe he posted his swap on here...

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39660

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36580
.
.
.

phrenology

03-29-2005, 11:57 PM

I believe he posted his swap on here...

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=39660

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=36580
.
.
.

Thanks that does help a bit but they really didn't discuss drive shafts in detail. I've PMed Andy (Phydeaux) before and got no response. I'll try to get ahold of him because he seems to be the 2g/3g hybrid expert. I haven't gotten to the drive shaft issue in my rebuild yet but the time will come soon and I'd like to have some tech support on hand.

If anyone is interested I'm going to convert 2G shock/spring assemblies to accomodate a more modern suspension setup with Koni adjustable hydrolic inserts and coilovers. I'll post pics after this weekend after I do the machine work on the 2G struts. :rockon:

PhydeauX

03-30-2005, 01:57 PM

I thought I responded to that pm. Oh well. I got around the problem originally by using an 85 prelude dx tranny. The 2g axles pop right into it. Then when I built the hybrid teg tranny I used the diff from the prelude since the teg diff was too big. I never bothered to hybrid the axles since I didn't have to. I've seen a couple 2g SE-is but I've never bothered to look close enough at them to see if they have bigger axles. I'm surprised that honda used a larger axles spline on the SE-i. The prelude motor was rated for about the same output as the SE-i and it kept with the smaller splines. It makes no sense to me why honda would have built new beefier parts for the SE-i. But what ever they have no reason to justify a decision they made 20 years ago to me. Anyway if the axles are indeed diferent and do fit in the a20 trans then what you should be able to do is swap the steering knuckles from a SE-i on. These are usually available as a whole reman part with new bearings.

I'd been pondering doing something with strut inserts for a while. I rember there being in an argument with jim about the existance of strut inserts and I decided to stop discussing it on the board since it was just fanning flames. That was a while ago and I was looking into doing koni inserts on my 2g. It never happend since I didn't and still don't have the skills or equipment to perpair the bodies for inserts. The idea has come up again for my nova project, the accord being religated to running pretty much in a strait line now I don't care much about the suspension. Recently I came across these http://www.advance-design.com/. They come in a bunch of different sizes, externally double adjustable, and you can do your own rebuilds and revalves, thats a bunch of plus's but they cost $400 a piece which will keep me a way for a while. Pictures would be useful to see what is involved. My fronts already use inserts so I would only have to the backs.

andy

phrenology

05-25-2005, 07:25 AM

Here are some pics of the A20...its far from done as you can see. But at least its progress. I'll put this stuff up with commentary later on Cardomain. I need to take more pics cause we actually dropped it in yesterday. The mounts all line up except a few issues with the lower tranny mount and we have to adapt the front beam to take the 3 Gee hydro mount. Oh yeah checkout the sweet homemade motor craddle my friend made with some scraps! Its a breeze to work on...just put it on the fork truck and raise it to work height.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/A20crate4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/A20crate3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/A20crate1.jpg

Busted_Blue

05-25-2005, 07:31 AM

Looks good. I cant wait to meet you someday. :)

myaccord7

05-25-2005, 09:24 AM

wow that is clean.

88accordhb

05-25-2005, 01:47 PM

Looks good. I cant wait to meet you someday. :)
werd

dub88acc

05-26-2005, 07:25 AM

cleanest a20 I have seen

SteveDX89

05-26-2005, 08:13 AM

Looks great except for the red timing belt cover.

HondaBoy

05-26-2005, 09:39 AM

wow, looks like a brand new engine. where the hell did you get a fork lift?!? arent those pretty expensive? we have one at work, but its a POS. clutch slips, brakes dont work right, yep just one step away from OSHA giving us a fine :lol:

ICEMAN707

05-26-2005, 10:04 AM

very very nice! do something about that coolant temp. sensor housing. it doesn't match up with all the bling of the rest of the engine. did you rebuild the engine yourself or you bought it from somewhere like that, and for how much?

phrenology

05-26-2005, 07:45 PM

Mmm yes it is very clean but still not running. The forklift is at work/garage where I'm working on the car, we already broke one. Yes they are pretty much POS forktrucks running on Propane with fucked up timing. But they beat engine lifts and you can drag a whole car around with one! It makes suspension work easy too, you can also test load on the car by pushing down with it.

The thermo-housing is probably the cleanest out of the 4-5 I have around and if I'm not mistaken the one that's meant to go on the A20A3. I'm getting ready to put the rest of that beast together soon. If I had the time/money I wanted to annodize the aluminum parts and paint the rest of the steel ones but I want to get it running again real soon. The red timing belt cover was my choice...I was bored with staring at all black, and the parts shop had only shitty Domestic flavors of hi-temp paint like Chevy Orange and Ford Blue. I'm sure it will all flake off after I start runing it anyway and look like crap. When we first repainted the pullies with the clear coat they were a dark shade of blue and my motor totally looked like Optimus Prime from Transformers. It was tight, but then it went back to black.

I'm more concerned with keeping the motor protected with the paint and undercoat spray than the actual look or paint scheme. I will sandblast and black-annodize the original A20 valve cover...I thought the A18 (12-valve letter) cover was nice but it reminds me too much of the ES2 cover.

You can read all the engine rebuild details on my cardomain page. Click on my link if you haven't. If I'm not too lazy than I'll update it again tonight/tomorrow. As we get closer to engine start-day I'm gonna redo the cardomain page, some things have changed with the build. I'll take some pics of my interior work this weekend as well as some exteriors and suspension shots...its all coming together slowly. :thumbup:

gfrg88

05-26-2005, 08:04 PM

man is that a cleanest a20 or what! that looks great, nice job bro

mr eff

05-26-2005, 08:24 PM

damn our engines have a nice ass

when are you visiting the bay again, chief?

phrenology

05-26-2005, 08:44 PM

damn our engines have a nice ass

when are you visiting the bay again, chief?

I should be there then end of June through the July 4th weekend but I have to be back to FL by the 5th to tech my friend's show. It would be nice to meet some of you Bay Area birds and blokes, huh maybe we'll go have a beer somewhere in SF. I'm gonna crash at Mum's. She lives down by the Opera House in SF. Hah...if one of you Berkeley boys wants to drive me about town to look for places to rent and give me a tour than the beer's are on me! :alc:

phrenology

09-24-2005, 04:56 PM

New pics on an old project. Well here's the A20 finally in my G2 with the header in place and the Holley DGV w/ K&N filter sitting attop the modified sandblasted intake manny. Still have a ways to go with cooling, throttle linkage and reapplying other systems, but its progress never the less. Too bad I'm hands off at this point, working on a car remotely from 3000 miles away is tricky! :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/P9030013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/phrenology/P9030011.jpg

Vanilla Sky

09-24-2005, 05:17 PM

next time you're in florida, i wanna check that thing out

88accordhb

09-24-2005, 05:39 PM

2geez!

Busted_Blue

09-24-2005, 05:57 PM

hey lyle what kind of header is that anyways?

thegreatdane

09-25-2005, 09:22 AM

S&S header?

Nice engine, looks good in a 2nd gen engine bay

bobafett

09-25-2005, 10:22 AM

looks beatiful!

phrenology

09-25-2005, 11:17 AM

looks beatiful!

Hey Thanks. Yeah...but it would look even better with the DCOEs on it :hs:

A20A1

09-25-2005, 12:00 PM

S&S is 4-1

Is that a ceramic Pacesetter?

od2681

09-25-2005, 12:26 PM

damn thats one clean engine bay

PhydeauX

09-25-2005, 01:01 PM

So now I am no longer the only a20a powered 2g accord..

Welcome to the club ;)

andy

tightwhitelx

09-25-2005, 02:57 PM

phydeaux hey man its me jermaine you proably dont remember me we talked alot like 2 years ago before the head blew on my accord but i am having it fixed as we speak and i would like to get back with you on the weber stuff we talked about

smufguy

09-25-2005, 04:27 PM

That looks awsome man. its realy clean and looks very nice.

TWOLOUDNPROUD

09-25-2005, 04:48 PM

Look at all room you have with out all at smog crap on it.

frankie89

09-25-2005, 06:42 PM

look really nice... get some more pics up..

Cheeseburger

09-25-2005, 09:44 PM

holly monkey butt, sweet man

88Accord-DX

09-25-2005, 10:01 PM

Damn, that gives me inspiration now. :cool:

w00tw00t111

09-26-2005, 09:03 AM

Is that what our intake manifold looks like w/o the air box on it? I never knew!

phrenology

09-26-2005, 10:43 AM

Hey Thanks Geez !!! You guys have inspired me to keep the project going strong.

When I go back to FL next week I'll have a day or so to take a look at other systems we have to finish. It's getting a completely custom cooling system and radiator. The rear disc brakes have been installed but I have to polish and rebuild the calipers. Its getting the cross drill rotor treatment on all fours too. I need to install the new brake lines and master cylinder/ portioning valve. The interior has been completely stipped except for the black finished dash. We also have to work on fuel delivery...its getting a high flow Python fuel pump, new filters, and probably a regulator. Ignition wise it will be custom and plans for the system are strictly classified, LOL.

Engine mod wise It's just a straight rebuild with balancing and .020 overbore and .025 head shave. New pistons, rings, seals, etc. It will probably have a little higher than stock C/R but nothing major. Yeah I've got a Prelude Si cam in there too. The tranny is a complete rebuilt 88 Lxi with lightened flywheel (of course), Zoom dual surface clutch running power to the Se-i drive front end.

The suspension mods are done with lowering almost complete and Koni adjustable reds on all fours. So when its finally finished it should be a fun ride. Thanks for all your nice comments. :bow: