Changing Front Upper Control Arms, Questions.

[visionguru]

I understand that has been discussed numerous times, and there is a HOWTO regarding the UCA replacement procedures. Here are my questions:

(1) Reuse "self-locking" bolts:
Many are saying that a "self-locking" bolt is designed to be replaced, not reused. I understand that these type of bolts will loose part of their "locking" ability once removed.

Can I reuse the self-locking bolts, and applying loctite thread locker (to keep the locking ability)? Any problems with this solution? New self-locking bolts are very hard to find.


(2) Reuse UCA bushings:

These rubber stuff aren't exactly cheap. Base on the rubber bushing in other places of my car, I am pretty sure the bushings are definitely reusable.

How difficult to reuse them? Hard to remove? Special tools?

(3) Torque wrench:
Do I definitely need the torque wrench? I understand a torque wrench can ensure proper assembling. What if I just tight all the bolts as tight as I can? or I can even mark the bolts. Any problems if I don't use a torque wrench?

Thanks,

[AZmike]

1 All of the the thread locking ability isn't lost after one use. You'll feel resistance when you reinstall them. Locktite is not a bad idea though.

2 You could reuse the bushings, but I'd recommend spending the ~$30 not to given how much slop were is mine a year or two ago when I replaced them.

3 While a torque wrench is helpful it's not absolutely required. I wouldn't tighten all the bolts as tight as you can. I'd try to follow the torque spec by estimating the moment arm of the wrench and how hard I should pull to get the torque right.

For instance 20 ft-lb with an 8 in long rachet means to try to pull with about 30 lbs of force. Of course it's not exact, but I'd say it's better than overtightening fasteners and the problems associated with it (bent parts, stripped threads, difficulty disassembling next time, etc.).

[colo88lxi]

1) The self locking nuts are probably OK but as AZmike said, a little locktite wouldn't hurt.
2) Plan on replacing the UCA bushings. Even if they are in good shape, they can be a B**** to get out with out damaging them! You might get them out OK, but be prepared if you don't.
3) While you could probably do this without one, this might be the time to think about buying a torque wrench! I have an old Craftsman Beam Torque Wrench (still available for around $30) that I got years ago that I still use. While it may not be as accurate as a "clicker" torque wrench, they are virtually indestructible and will get you ballpark of where you need to be.

[AZmike]

this might be the time to think about buying a torque wrench! I have an old Craftsman Beam Torque Wrench (still available for around $30) that I got years ago that I still use. While it may not be as accurate as a "clicker" torque wrench, they are virtually indestructible and will get you ballpark of where you need to be.

That's a good point. I found a used beam style torque wrench for $10 at a pawn shop. Even $30 isn't bad if you intend to keep doing your own work.

[bl9366]

visionguru, i replaced my UCA a few months ago. like others have said it's in theory that the self-locking bolt should be replaced, but it's definitely not essential, and the application of loctite is definitely a smart idea to any critical nuts and bolts (providing your thing is in good shape and not broken). Bushings are a bitch to get in and out but you definitely will not need any special tools (at least I didn't) and if they are in alright shape go right ahead and re-use them. Torquing to factory specs is another one of those things "in theory" that most shops won't even bother with the control arm. It should be very tight but not over-tightened (just don't kill the damn thing)...but that I'm sure you can figure that out.

[visionguru]

AZmike, colo88lxi, bl9366
Thanks a lot for the information. Now, I am more confident that I can pull this UCA project off.

I have ordered 2 sets of UCAs and bushing/bolts sets. They should be here by tomorrow. I also ordered tire-rod ends. As far as I can tell, the 2 UCAs are pretty bad on my car, the rubber boots are cracked. When I moved the front wheel along 12~6 direction, there is obvious play. When I moved the front wheel along 9~3 direction, there is no play, but the tire-rod end boots are cracked too.

Surprisingly, the lower ball joints seem to be ok, at least the boots are in very good condition, and no obvious play when pryed.

I plan to take pictures every step of the way. Hopefully, the pictures will serve as "idiot's guide to UCA replacement". A shop quoted me $500+ for this. $300 for parts, and $200 for the labor. My parts cost is only $100 (including the tire-rod ends).

MORE Question
http://users.rcn.com/visionguru/UCA.jpg
(1) When installing the UCA, I suppose the 10mm self-locking nut should be tightened AFTER the arm has been installed. Is that correct?

(2) Removing the upper ball joint from the knuckle (using a puller or pickle fork) sounds straight forward. How about reinstalling? Is it hard to re-insert the ball joint stud?

Thanks.

[Strugglebucket]

(1) i don't think it's crucial for the UCA, but the proper way to torque suspension bushings is to install it, apply the weight of the vehicle (use a jack under the lower arm), and then tighten. you'll need a wrench for one side because a ratchet won't fit between the fender.

(2)since your replacing the ball joint anyway, use a pickle fork. it always works and you might have a hard time finding a proper sized puller. re-installing the ball joint stud is easy, just put it in and it will seat when you tighten the castle nut. the castle nut is one you might actually want a torque wrench for.

[visionguru]

After researching this forum and seeking advice from fellow members, I decided to replace both UCAs (Upper Control Arms) by myself. I never did any suspension related work on my car in the past, and I was doubting my ability to pull off the task. Though the whole replacement process wasn't a walk in the park, I feel that this is a job CAN BE DONE BY AN AVERAGE JOE

There is already an excellent HOWTO in the how to section:
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37070

I am describing the process from a newbie's perspective. This is my car: 1989Honda Accord DX Coupe:
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/6624/89dx6ft.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The left UCA:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1510/larm6ue.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The two 12mm self locking nuts (use 17mm socket):
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1298/lbolt16ld.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7504/lbolt28iv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

To gain access to the nut right under the windshield wiper motor, I removed the 4 bolts (in order to get to the bolt underneath, I had to remove the bracket which holds the gas line/throttle cable, because I only have one long extension bar). After the 4 bolts are removed, I gently rotate the motor about 60 degrees, like this:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6514/wipermotor7rk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Now, it's WD-40 time. By using a longer ratchet, you shouldn't have problems loosening the 12mm nuts with 17mm socket(don't remove it just yet.)

Remove the castle nut cover (using 10mm socket):
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/2014/lcoverremoved0lh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Remove the cotter pin (using pliers),
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/712/cotterpintremoved2nr.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
and the castle nut (with 17mm socket). Seperate the ball joint and the knuckle with Ball joint/Tie rod end puller (borrowed from AutoZone). In the picture, the castle nut hasn't been removed (I'll explain why). Just imagine the castle nut is not there.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2502/seperate5ya.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

OK, now all the bolts are loose. You can take out the UCA and replace with a new one. The installation procedure is the reverse.

Lesson: You can kill a bolt!!
When I tried to remove the castle nut, because it's upside down, I made a big mistake: I was tighten it instead of loosening it. The result? The castle nut will rotate arount the ball joint stud, but REFUSED TO COME OUT. After trying different things for almost 2 hours, I had to find a saw to saw it off:
http://img445.imageshack.us/img445/1118/castle9hi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This set me back for a whole day, because I have to take bus to buy a saw from HomeDepot. After this incident, I realize it's very important not to over tighten the nuts. A torque wrench is a must!

The passenger side is relatively easier to do: simply remove the two bolts attaching the black box to the firewall. Without disconnecting anything, gently move the black box a little bit to gain access to the inner locking nut.

Look at the old ball joints:
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1158/ucas2fj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Summary:
Tools:

Ratchet
Sockets -- most useful: 17mm, 14mm, 12mm, 10mm
Ball joint/Tierod ends seperator for AutoZone (better than the pickle fork).
Extension bars
Pliers
Torque wrench
Wrench -- especially 14mm. You will need this to lock the control arm through bolt when disassembling the UCA.

Chemicals

Multi-purpose grease --- for bushings
RTV silicone sealant -- for sealing the castle nut protector cover
Thread locker -- for all the the self-locking nuts. I used medium strength (blue).
WD-40 -- can we live without it?


A small tip
The self-locking nut on the UCA arm is very hard to take off. If you don't have a bench vise, try to loose it when the UCA is still on. You will not be able to loose the bolt, but you can break binding between the nut/bolt and the bushing cover, which makes it easier to loose the bolt later.

Here is how I did it: put the UCA on hard ground. put a 14mm wrench on the bolt to lock it, and then you can remove the locking nuts by a ratchet.

When installing, it's really hard to get the two anchor bolt aligned perfectly. I used a hammer to tap it in. Of course, if you have a big vise, all of the above will not be problems at all.

Thanks everybody. I did it because of the information your provided.

[Oldblueaccord]

just to add if you hit the "flat" on the steering knuckle the joint should pop right apart. Your car is pretty rusty but for us in the better climates this works and does't damage the boot. Works on all the other ball/socket type joints as well.


wp

[paulwwww]

Glad this information is out there, I am in the process of replacing the upper control arms on my 1989 accord dx. I already have both arms removed and the rest of the parts should be in tomorrow, ordered the control arms and bushing kit from e-bay. Question, looks like by design that the bushings actually get pressed into the arm with the upper arm bolt and self-locking nut, of course with the right torque 55 ft lbs, is this the case? If this is the case once the bushings are in the arm it is just a matter of bolting it back on the car and re-attaching the ball joint packed with grease. Someone in this thread mentions some sort of final torqueing after the weight of the vehicle is on the arm, does anyone know, is this extra torque at where the arm connects to the vehicle? I wouldn't think that once the bushings are in place with the right toque that they should be needing anything else. Me = rookie trying to save some bucks. Any and all information is greatly apreciated.