R134 charge - someone explain!

[POS carb]

OK I have a vacuum pump, some cheapo gauges, and a leakfree (IHOPE!) system
1. How many OZ of refrigerant do I need to fill this? I used 5 little cans and hardly any change. The low pressure line would ice up and thats it.
I added an oil charge too.

2. these cans should go into the high or low? The manual says high pressure line is for liquid, low pressure is for vapor filling. But it also says don't connect disposable cans to the high pressure and don't run the engine during a liquid charge. My mech always ran the engine while pumping it up.

3. The new receiver dryer is painted black so I can't see the sightglass, WTF autozone!! how can I tell it's full?

The gauges have 3 lines, a high, a low, and an input.
1 what should the pressures be at:
off
idle
revving

I've read 40/225 and 27/175 as measurements on this board, no speed specified.
The manual only mentions 200 PSI max on the High @ 1500 RPMS

What can I tell from the motion of the gauges does it mean if one is really high vs the other. What are common trouble signs
Whats a good way to tell if there is a kink/clog in the line? Super high pressures?


??????????????????????????
Any info helps!!!








Summary of the shop manual (vapor):
pump down the system to 27 in mercury for 15 min, close valves and check for leaks. Keep pumping for 15 more min if ok. Close valves, disconnect vacuum pump

Connect refrigerant, open low pressure, do not exceed 60 psi on Low side

Run engine and A/C (below 1500 RPM)

add 23-26 oz of R12 (650-750 g) until sight glass is free of bubbles

close valves, disconnect

[86commuter]

did you convert your system to r134a? if not you need r12 which can only be done by a certified shop. anything older then i think 93 is r12

"add 23-26 oz of R12 (650-750 g) until sight glass is free of bubbles"

your title says r134a charge but the manual stipulates r12 also.

here is the link to a retrofit kit

retrofit link (http://63.89.49.212/parts/online_catalog/quote.jsp?year=1987&product=R1120-59249&application=000325994&part=A/C%20Retrofit%20Kit&category=All&usemake=&returnurl=http://shop.hondapartstore.com/basket.php?action=additem_framed&stylesheet=http://shop.hondapartstore.com/stylesheet.php&phonenumber=1-888-267-1843&dp=false)

[Oldblueaccord]

OK I have a vacuum pump, some cheapo gauges, and a leakfree (IHOPE!) system
1. How many OZ of refrigerant do I need to fill this? I used 5 little cans and hardly any change. The low pressure line would ice up and thats it.
I added an oil charge too.

2. these cans should go into the high or low? The manual says high pressure line is for liquid, low pressure is for vapor filling. But it also says don't connect disposable cans to the high pressure and don't run the engine during a liquid charge. My mech always ran the engine while pumping it up.

3. The new receiver dryer is painted black so I can't see the sightglass, WTF autozone!! how can I tell it's full?

The gauges have 3 lines, a high, a low, and an input.
1 what should the pressures be at:
off
idle
revving

I've read 40/225 and 27/175 as measurements on this board, no speed specified.
The manual only mentions 200 PSI max on the High @ 1500 RPMS

What can I tell from the motion of the gauges does it mean if one is really high vs the other. What are common trouble signs
Whats a good way to tell if there is a kink/clog in the line? Super high pressures?


??????????????????????????
Any info helps!!!








Summary of the shop manual (vapor):
pump down the system to 27 in mercury for 15 min, close valves and check for leaks. Keep pumping for 15 more min if ok. Close valves, disconnect vacuum pump

Connect refrigerant, open low pressure, do not exceed 60 psi on Low side

Run engine and A/C (below 1500 RPM)

add 23-26 oz of R12 (650-750 g) until sight glass is free of bubbles

close valves, disconnect

you pretty much answered your own questions.

Always put freon in the LOW side only. Its the port on the rubber line close to the motor. The high side port is right by the fender on the solid copper line.

3 cans of freon is plenty so 5 something is wrong. Make sure the car /compressor is running and the clutch is coming on you may have to jump out the low pressure switch to make it come on. It may take up to 10 minutes to get the first can to "load up" if you will dont panic.


wp

[POS carb]

the clutch comes on, i had jumped the low pressure switch to be sure.

Yes I did a retrofit, new seals everywhere

I'm mostly concerned about how much refrigerant that equals in 134 (the manual lists in r12) and also to know if theres a clog in the system

[Oldblueaccord]

the clutch comes on, i had jumped the low pressure switch to be sure.

Yes I did a retrofit, new seals everywhere

I'm mostly concerned about how much refrigerant that equals in 134 (the manual lists in r12) and also to know if theres a clog in the system


put 2 cans in it and see what it does. You probably want to use less 134a then r -12.

It should take some freon pretty quick if you vacuumed it down 15 minutes or longer. You can try tipping the can upside down a second or too then righting it to see if it will take more.

I assumed you changed the oil in the compressor to the ester oil? is it blowing cold air at all?

wp

[Oldblueaccord]

put 2 cans in it and see what it does. You probably want to use less 134a then r -12.

It should take some freon pretty quick if you vacuumed it down 15 minutes or longer. You can try tipping the can upside down a second or too then righting it to see if it will take more.

I assumed you changed the oil in the compressor to the ester oil? is it blowing cold air at all?

wp

i did the search for you as well

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=45785

this is a pretty good post on the subject.


wp

[Oldblueaccord]

the clutch comes on, i had jumped the low pressure switch to be sure.

Yes I did a retrofit, new seals everywhere

I'm mostly concerned about how much refrigerant that equals in 134 (the manual lists in r12) and also to know if theres a clog in the system


Any luck?

I was just in Ft. Lauderdale lask week might be going back in Jan. for the King tut exhibit. I ate at Ralphy's on Collins N. what a fun place to eat.


wp




wp

[Mac]

3. The new receiver dryer is painted black so I can't see the sightglass, WTF autozone!! how can I tell it's full?


Sometimes there is tape over the sight glass. Use your fingernail or a razor and try to peel it off.

[Blkblurr]

If you've converted to R134A you should use 85% charge for R12. I put two 12 ounce cans in mine. Did you do a vacuum decay check while you were pumping down your system? This will tell you if you have any leaks before you try to charge the system. There is a maximum low side pressure spec in the Honda service manual and I think it's 60 psi. watch your guage on the low side wihile charging to determine fill level. With two 12 ounce cans of R134A you should get to about 55 psi with the compressor running. To aid in getting the freon in faster put the can in warm water after it ices up but watch the guage closely. DO NO EXCEED 60 PSI. As you put the can in the warm water the pressure will go higher. As it reaches 60 psi remove the can from the warm water. The goal here is to exceed operating pressure of the system for freon to go from the can to the system. Once you remove the can from the warm water look at the pressure of the system. If it is at say 50 psi you need to get the can warm enough for the freon to evaporate and create enough pressure in the can to exceed 50 psi. Doing it this way will only take a few minutes to fill and is a safe way to do this. You also can do it this way if you have no sight glass.

[lamontlamont]

Let me tell u the easy way to do this. the easiest thing to do is buy the cans of r134 with the oil and conditioner already mixed in the can, you can even buy about two of them aresol cans with the hose built in...NOW. i will tell u the biggest mistake people make, they use those crappy adaperters. i can not stress enough how you need to avoid those crappy adapters on this car. When the adapter is installed it will either not allow freon to flow in or allow freon to leak. Instead of using the adapters i would buy an old r12 hose and cut the hose and patch it to the aresol can hose or to a r134 hose. it will look like this.. one side fits a threaded r134a can the other side fits the original car low side threaded part......now you just start the car, turn the ac on full blast. next you attach the can to the frankenstein hose and then connect the other side to the car, you have to then hold the can upside down so that only the liquid goes into the system, i would say two cans should do the trick. if u are using the big aresol can i would say maybe one and half of those would do the trick or maybe just one.
my system was alreay empty when i charged it so i didnt have to remove old freon. YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO THE HIGH SIDE!!!

JUST KEEP HOLDING YOUR HAND OVER THE VENT TO SEE IF IT GETS COLD.

[Oldblueaccord]

Let me tell u the easy way to do this. the easiest thing to do is buy the cans of r134 with the oil and conditioner already mixed in the can, you can even buy about two of them aresol cans with the hose built in...NOW. i will tell u the biggest mistake people make, they use those crappy adaperters. i can not stress enough how you need to avoid those crappy adapters on this car. When the adapter is installed it will either not allow freon to flow in or allow freon to leak. Instead of using the adapters i would buy an old r12 hose and cut the hose and patch it to the aresol can hose or to a r134 hose. it will look like this.. one side fits a threaded r134a can the other side fits the original car low side threaded part......now you just start the car, turn the ac on full blast. next you attach the can to the frankenstein hose and then connect the other side to the car, you have to then hold the can upside down so that only the liquid goes into the system, i would say two cans should do the trick. if u are using the big aresol can i would say maybe one and half of those would do the trick or maybe just one.
my system was alreay empty when i charged it so i didnt have to remove old freon. YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO THE HIGH SIDE!!!

JUST KEEP HOLDING YOUR HAND OVER THE VENT TO SEE IF IT GETS COLD.


yeah i have that kinda hose too I like it. But then you have to use r-12 guages which may or may not be an option. I think he's got the 134 guages so he probably needed to convert.


Little water on the condensor helps too I forgot to add.

wp

[POS carb]

ok i figured out a bunch of my problems, thanks all!
The gauges, although they say r-134 on the dials, have R-12 fittings! I had to use a cheapo low pressure gauge that hooked up to the cans
My scrader valves sucked, leaked, so I found some at walmart of all places
The system was pumping pressure to the high but creating vacuum on the low and then it would slowly equalize after shutting off the compressor.
I took out my evaporator to run some compressed air and found my expansion valve clogged with crap, this explains why the system stopped working last time and why it would cool for a split second, so I bought another one and resealed everything again. No leaks, system holds 22 in-hg off this crappy pump's max output.
I put the r-12 hose inside the oil and let the vacuum suck in some more oil through the gauges
Then I vacuumed it again, this time from the high side, and let it equalize. This time it occured faster
I hooked up the r134 fitting to the low and emptied a can into it
Then I hooked up another can, opened it, fired up the engine and a/c. Cold air right away
I got about 150 on the high pressure, no idea on the low side, added a 3rd can for good measure. Everything was cool till the belt flew off on my way to work today! Woohoo!
THe compressor doesn't cycle on and off either like it did many years ago, I guess that switch mounted inthe evaporator box is stuck or not getting a cood signal. Either way it's Miami so it's never going to get cold enough to ice.
I can't believe I've been this long without a/c
now i know why everyone thinks their 3gee is slow! Shutting off the A/C feels like I spooled up the imaginary turbo!

[Oldblueaccord]

ok i figured out a bunch of my problems, thanks all!
The gauges, although they say r-134 on the dials, have R-12 fittings! I had to use a cheapo low pressure gauge that hooked up to the cans
My scrader valves sucked, leaked, so I found some at walmart of all places
The system was pumping pressure to the high but creating vacuum on the low and then it would slowly equalize after shutting off the compressor.
I took out my evaporator to run some compressed air and found my expansion valve clogged with crap, this explains why the system stopped working last time and why it would cool for a split second, so I bought another one and resealed everything again. No leaks, system holds 22 in-hg off this crappy pump's max output.
I put the r-12 hose inside the oil and let the vacuum suck in some more oil through the gauges
Then I vacuumed it again, this time from the high side, and let it equalize. This time it occured faster
I hooked up the r134 fitting to the low and emptied a can into it
Then I hooked up another can, opened it, fired up the engine and a/c. Cold air right away
I got about 150 on the high pressure, no idea on the low side, added a 3rd can for good measure. Everything was cool till the belt flew off on my way to work today! Woohoo!
THe compressor doesn't cycle on and off either like it did many years ago, I guess that switch mounted inthe evaporator box is stuck or not getting a cood signal. Either way it's Miami so it's never going to get cold enough to ice.
I can't believe I've been this long without a/c
now i know why everyone thinks their 3gee is slow! Shutting off the A/C feels like I spooled up the imaginary turbo!


Hey thats great!!

yeah the compressor sucks a lotta hp. I think that ac switch is under the dash I hear mine click all the time.

wp