Getting into the 12s [Archive] - 3geez.com - Classic Honda Accord & Prelude Forum

AccordEpicenter

10-16-2005, 10:01 AM

ok guys, i ran 13.7 at 105 mph at the track, spinning thru 1st and second all the way and barking 3rd hard and hooking up ok then, but i was getting 2.4-2.6 60 ft times all night either bogging it badly or spinning to oblivion... what do you guys think i should need to get into the 12s? Im also on a suspect tune, but it cant be that bad considering ive been thrashing it at 13psi boost and she runs excellent, but that is with some race gas added... I was thinking that slicks should get me around a 1.9 60 ft and probably a 6-9 tenth improvement in my ET (every tenth you go faster in your 60ft is usually worth around 2 tenths improvement in your et in hondas), but im not sure if it alone will get me into 12s, that and taking that 60+lb of useless crap i had in my trunk, out (some tools, spare inner fender, short shifter, set of brake pads, spare tire, jack, piece of sheetmetal, floor mats etc)... comment up

FyreDaug

10-16-2005, 10:07 AM

What do you have for suspension? Obviously your not an idiot, but people usually forget some shit with suspensions. Since its an FF car its got alot of weight up front which gets thrown back when you launch. Tighten up the suspension front and back, pull off the sway bars, gut the interior, smaller wheels with sticky tires (IE the mentioned slicks).

Hmm, I dont really know your whole system, your blowing 13 off the turbo? Thats an a20 right?
Obviously strip off everything you can, I said sway bars because their are considered weight and you dont need em in a straight line. If you wanna go really hardcore into it get some lighter brake materials too. Kill power steering/AC if you havent and underdrive the alternator to reduce load.

Other than that I donno, let me know your setup and maybe I can help some more

EDIT: Then theres always ripping apart the motor and pnp it, and the usual intake and exhaust but thats probably been done. What do you have for ignition and engine management?

AccordEpicenter

10-16-2005, 10:18 AM

Stock engine, 135k miles, only the exhaust manifold and oil pan have ever been taken off, and those were for the turbo install. MSD BTM and SAFC, 450cc injectors, walbro fuel pump. 13 psi boost. Yeah i know what you mean about the weight transfer, the car seriously slams the rear end down nearly 3 inches on launches (watch my vid) I need the sway bars because it helps with launches, they tie the front wheels together, and i have a preload on it to help me launch straighter (seems to help) no a/c no back seat, no cruise, stripped trunk etc, 8lb aluminum flywheel...

EDIT: Stock suspension too

bobafett

10-16-2005, 10:28 AM

man i think getting some real tires on there will help, but with any turbo fwd car, your gonna have traction issues... i would be amazed if u got 12s from just 13psi and flywheel. thats totally awesome... i have been watching that vid over and over.

if u are considering changing to obd1 if u run chrome u could get a 2 step launch, which might help with slicks finding the sweet spot, and shave another .1 off your launch.. also u get the added bonus of tuning your car, and probably picking up a few hp.

seriously im impressed by the times ,makes me REALLY excited to boost mine!

AccordEpicenter

10-16-2005, 10:37 AM

i was running 14.0 at 102mph-103mph with a passenger and 2.5-2.6 60fts (absolutely no traction) even though one time i let off before the traps. Lately ive been battling check engine lights and such, but im gonna convert to obd1 probably next season, i already have a chipped P06 ecu and other stuff to do it, and my friend and i have a wideband and an ostrich (real time tuning pretty much yO) man i forgot to take off the ps belt, that has netted me consistant 2 tenth improvements in the past... doh, back to basics...

Lok

10-16-2005, 10:37 AM

Congrats AccordEpicenter for your car.
I think that on street tyres is difficult to get on 12sec.
But with drag tyres there isn't any problem.
Keep 13psi boost, so your engine last long, and just play with suspension set-up.
You need at least 280lbs springs, so I only recomend GROUND CONTROL COILOVERS (350lbs) or the best SKUNK2 COILOVERS (550lbs too stiff).
1.5 inch drop in front and 1inch drop back, with a good set of drag tyres front, I think you can get into 12.

Good luck

gfrg88

10-16-2005, 11:09 AM

i think some drag tires should help you out a lot, when i went to the track i raced a turboed crx that had slicks on it and man that thing was launching so good, not sure what he had for suspension though. oh and you should probably look into getting an aftermarket intake manifold if you dont already have on.
oh and nice job on those times:)

w00tw00t111

10-16-2005, 11:23 AM

Jason my friend, I have looked up to you for sooo very long. *Since the first exchange of pm's* I'm really excited to hear about your times! Since traction seems to be your biggest issue, I would say if you have the money you should get a quife LSD. There was a thread a couple months back about the different options in LSDs that we have, besides phantom grip that is. The general consensus for the phantom grip is that you shouldn't waste your money. Just save up for the real deal. I'll try to find the link for you. Slicks will always help but, one thing you might want to try the next time you go to the track is not launching at a really high rpm. I know in an issue of MM&FF they strapped a blower to a mustang and couldn't get it to stop spinning it's tires so what they ended up doing is launching at about 1500rpm. Just kinda easing into it. You might want to give it a try. It might sound like you would go slower since you're not using all of the cars power right off the bat but, maybe since you wouldn't be slipping you would end up with a better time. It's worth a try at least. Also, have you tried lowering the psi of of your tires? That usually helps you get a little bit better grip.

AccordEpicenter

10-16-2005, 11:30 AM

this is with 15psi air pressure in the tires and burnouts. I dont believe quaife makes an lsd for this application, or anybody really for that matter. As for a PG or similar lsd, im gonna see what happens with the open diff first on slicks, it might do a one wheel peel or it might light both, not sure yet. Right now it generally lights both tires, one wheel peels are rare, even with the open diff (wierd but true) ive launches in boost and out of boost and it doesnt seem to make a difference much, spinning has been the result...

w00tw00t111

10-16-2005, 02:21 PM

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=34112&highlight=lsd This was the thread I was thinking of. *i think* Quiffe doesn't make an lsd for our cars but some guys got a teg lsd to fit. I think they were doing the tranny swap as well. Hope it helps. I know that they are usually 1200+ so it definatley wouldn't hurt to try slicks first seeing as though that'll only be 5 or 600 dollars out of your pocket.

Accordtheory

10-16-2005, 03:05 PM

lower and stiffen up the suspension as much as you can stand, and run as wide as you can fit (225?) bfg dr's at a moderate psi. My car would squat horribly, then I ghetto cut the springs and that made a huge difference. still, it would hit the rev limit in 2nd practically standing still, which completely sucked. Fuck cheap 205 street tires. I tried some 205 nitto nt 555r's, huge difference, and then I was checking out the bfg drag radials, and they are even better. I think the nittos get a lot stickier when you heat them up, which you're not really supposed to do with the dr's, but I think the dr's still have the edge. I don't know if a lsd is worthwhile, my car never burned just one tire on a straight launch, only when changing lanes while accelerating or going around a corner. But I have seen plenty of b series cars only burn 1 tire, who knows..?

p.s. Are you serious that the ps belt netted you 2 tenths??

3G Jester

10-16-2005, 03:36 PM

what about polyurothane engine mounts to handle that power transfer at the block?

and nitros would probably give you a few extra tenths...but i dont know how your engine would do with that :/

FyreDaug

10-17-2005, 08:40 AM

8lb aluminum flywheel...

8lbs?? From where

bobafett

10-17-2005, 08:55 AM

fidanza

ICEMAN707

10-17-2005, 09:47 AM

i think in addition to what you've already done you should take off the gas tank, use an aluminum fuel cell with only enough gas to get you down the track. shorten your exhaust piping - less piping, less weight. use lexan windows instead of glass. remove your steel bumper supports, just use the covers and find another way to hold them up with the supports gone. carbon fiber hood. use skinnies in the back instead of regular rims. use fat slicks up front. build & tune the engine and go for 20+ psi. that should get you into the 12's even to low 11's and 10's. that's jason budd and johnny o territory right there! those are the best guys to answer your question. :rockon:

FyreDaug

10-17-2005, 10:03 AM

Thats an a20? I didnt know fidanza made 8lb a20 wheels

ICEMAN707

10-17-2005, 10:07 AM

Thats an a20? I didnt know fidanza made 8lb a20 wheels

yep so does unorthodox. they are pricey though. like $500ish. too bad no one makes lightweight pulleys for the a20.

adams86lxi

10-17-2005, 10:31 AM

dude jason i really, really, really, wanna see you do this on a stock a20! This would be insane!

If i were you i would get some ebay coilovers, since the ebay cheap ones seem to be real stiff. Mine came with 2 different stiffnesses. Put the stiffer ones in the back and the softer ones in the front. Keep the back fairly high and lower the front alot. Then put the slicks on. 22 inch slicks i would think would be fine and then just mess around with the tuning alittle more and you will get 12s! GOOD LUCK BRO!!

Strugglebucket

10-17-2005, 07:45 PM

http://www.clutchnet.com/search.php?mode=search
whoa, that's a good deal if they actually have them.

this is with 15psi air pressure in the tires and burnouts. I dont believe quaife makes an lsd for this application, or anybody really for that matter. As for a PG or similar lsd, im gonna see what happens with the open diff first on slicks, it might do a one wheel peel or it might light both, not sure yet. Right now it generally lights both tires, one wheel peels are rare, even with the open diff (wierd but true) ive launches in boost and out of boost and it doesnt seem to make a difference much, spinning has been the result...
maybe work on how much you let the clutch slip. it must be tricky with that clutch you have. ever try launching from 2nd?

definately stiffen up the rear suspension. btw, awsome times:bow:

bobafett

10-17-2005, 07:48 PM

btw 12's on stock a20 will prove that this motor shames D series! :) not really, but it sure does seem easy... and i think D's are usually built when running 12's.

sounds like all he needs is a tune a good amount of grip and u are there...

sideways_LX-i

10-19-2005, 04:58 AM

i actualy just read a article on tires (in sport compact) where they had the same car run 3 different tires street tires (falken azenis sports), street drags (bfg drag radials) and then some actual drag slicks (micky thompsons) and the bfgs came in just under the mickys but they dropped almost a FULL SECOND off the time from the falken azenis to the bfg's and those falkens are supposed to be pretty fuckin sticky! so those might help a lot, id recomend the bfg's they go on the street so you dont need a extra set of rims or anything and other then that just tighten your suspension your close to 12 anyways all you need is that lil fuckin edge, props man!
i got the azenis rt-615's myself but i like to hit corners in my car, but they stick pretty damn well to in a straight not that my car has the power yours does (yet :) ) but tires make a huge diff over stock tires trust me, stock tires suck balls hard

smufguy

10-19-2005, 06:05 AM

thats some really nice time jason. stiffer rear like a wheelie bar would help your launch a lot and help reduce ur wheel spin. also, 2.6s for a 60ft is very decent. thats what my friend with the 1g talon pulled when he did 13.5s pushing atleast 15lbs. we have an upper hand with the weight. Good job none the less.

Try alcohol injection.

bobafett

10-19-2005, 07:01 AM

2.6 is a garbage 0-60... i was pulling 2.3's with 185/70/13 toyo 800 ultras!!!

the reason his are so bad is cause he cant get traction though... i dont have much power, so i can hook up really easy.

as for the drag radials, thats interesting abuot the BFG, but u wouldnt want to drive around on them for daily driving purposes, they are faaar too expensive. :( u would still want them on a set of spare rims. :D

sideways_LX-i

10-19-2005, 07:18 AM

yeah the bfg's are the only dot drags to run a 7 second 1/4... nice to know ;) but as long as he gets that suspension to handle his power he will be very fast it sounds, maybe like a low 12

FyreDaug

10-19-2005, 07:32 AM

it must be tricky with that clutch you have. ever try launching from 2nd?

Nah man, motors probably still not torquey enough to handle that, plus I dont know how well the clutch (even though its good) would do with that (+ light flywheel)

Anyways, I cant recall if you have an LSD or not with the hybrid tranny (If you dont have either, I would recommend that as an upgrade). Forums are fuckin up for me and page 1 wont load, so I hope this post goes through

Accordtheory

10-19-2005, 10:59 AM

let us know how the bfg dr's work for you..

Vanilla Sky

10-19-2005, 01:20 PM

have you thought about water injection?

Justin86

10-19-2005, 01:23 PM

tires, suspension, and practice that launch is all I have time to say right now

b8er

10-19-2005, 01:59 PM

i gotta say everything you guys are sugesting here are pretty extensive mods, is this car a full race car that your trying to make or do you still drive this car around,cause if this is a street car, things like wheel bars and water injection arent the way to go IMO , i agree completly agree with justin here, buy some semi sudo slicks and some tires rims for the front, do a little suspention and just practice practice practice, when i started racing all i did was practice launching in parking lots , and play with different rpms when lauching, play witht the cluthc and tire pressure, once you got a combination that feels good, take it to the track and watch your 60 fts drop

smufguy

10-19-2005, 02:04 PM

Alcohol or water injection does not have anything to do with daily driving, they are like n2o. they are standalone systems, that you can arm at your will. also the wheelibars can be removed and do not have to be permanent.

FyreDaug

10-19-2005, 02:55 PM

Wheelie bars on a FF car? :dunno:

b8er

10-19-2005, 03:02 PM

yea i guess thats true smufguy, it just seems a tad big for a street car,

yea wheelie bars on a FF do seem weird but there on hydrolic rams of some sort and as the cars do down the track the wheelie bars are applie and lift the back wheels off the ground forcing more weight to the front tires as well as reducing rolling resistace from the bigish back tires to a small tire on the wheelie bar

w00tw00t111

10-19-2005, 06:16 PM

Why wouldn't a really well designed boost staging "map" work. I mean your tires essentially slip because you have to much horsepower or torque for that matter. So if you had that horsepower fazing in gradually down the track or what ever time/distance you find works then you should be fine. I would think. I agree with you b8er for a street car weelie bars seems a little extensive. And alchohol injection technically should make the problem worse. He's getting "bad" times as it is because the car can't get the traction it needs with the power it has so, how is more power going to help the situation? *taps head* In all essence it should make the problem escalate.

I remember an interview with a funny car dragster driver. He said that the cars have all the power in the world and that it's no longer whether the has or doesn't have the ability to race down the track in a certain time period. "it's all up to the driver. It all depends on how good he is and how much he lets the rear get away from him" So, even the pro guys have this problem and just have to work extensively on their cluth releases and their throttle pressure. Try going to a parking lot or an open area and set up cones for the from 0ft *starting position* to 100ft *ending position* and try to get your times better and better. Between that distance is supposedly where a race is won or lost *not factoring nitrous or any other instant hp adder of course* So if you can get those times down lower and lower and lower and find what your car's launching "sweet spot" is then you should get much lower e.t's hope this perspective get's your gears turning and helps a little bit.

smufguy

10-19-2005, 06:44 PM

Wheelie bars on a FF car? :dunno:

yup, all vehicles have weight transfer on initial startup off the line which takes the load off th front tires, this is bad for FF cars especially since we want as much force on the front tires as possible. the RWD cars have them too and its because they dont want the rear tires to do the work of just lifting the front up, but rather move the car.

sideways_LX-i

10-20-2005, 03:58 AM

yeah sounds pretty much like the cheapest/most effective way to go is a set of new tires, possably shocks or coils over to stiffen up a tad, and just practice till you got it down just right then run it again. wheelie bars are usually if your pushin enough power to overload your current suspension set up (which isnt even existant cause you are all engine as of now correct?) i dont think you would need them unless you had a better suspension and you where still havin trouble keeping power on the pavement, and as for all that injection stuff, yeah i agree with what was stated earlier "that would make the problem worse for now " he already has lots of power its not the problem, traction is. not to mention i dont think hes doin wheelies or bottoming out his back end in his launches

FyreDaug

10-20-2005, 07:06 AM

He's getting "bad" times as it is because the car can't get the traction it needs with the power it has so, how is more power going to help the situation? *taps head* In all essence it should make the problem escalate.

It would help after the fact, how many people spray off the line anyways? Its pretty rare unless you know you have the traction for it.

not to mention i dont think hes doin wheelies or bottoming out his back end in his launches

Because its still front wheel drive, he couldnt do wheelies anyways.

You COULD always spray down the track, or like mentioned above, get a stages turbo map and boost lower off the line, or just get used to it and dont keep the car at full boost off a launch. Because if you are getting used to it already, changing the map will screw everything up and youll have to relearn.

sideways_LX-i

10-20-2005, 07:52 AM

sounds good, and yeah i know he cant do a wheelie ha ha i was sayin for the wheelie bar sake, but yeah lower boost levels at the begining might help aswell, and a spray down the line might work too but he is still gonna have a unaddressed suspension problem, id fix that to match my power first, im not half ass though i like a well balanced vehicle, ofcourse a thousand horse power and a 500 shot of nos will work for anyone, but on stock tires/suspension its not gonna even touch its potential, i seen guys drop almost 2 seconds off there 1/4's with just suspension shit and toying with spring rates, tire pressures all that shit, id address that first, then when he an get a good launch with the current power, boom power it up more then he'll tear shit up even more right

bobafett

10-20-2005, 08:08 AM

in cars with larger turbo setups, nitrous is primarily used to spool the turbo for the launch, once u are in high boost, you really dont need nitrous to move u down the track. its easier to tune for a given psi of boost and just run more boost if you want more power. this probably isnt necessary for how small of a turbo he is running, n20 would just make him spin his tires more thru more gears... if he had a huge t3/t4 then maybe spraying would be a good idea, but u only need it off the line. :)

in NA cars thats a totally different story. they like to spray all the way down the track.

FyreDaug

10-20-2005, 10:38 AM

Ok, well lets ask this question:

TELL US YOUR SUSPENSION RIGHT NOW

(yes I know its not a question)

Ludi Mali

10-20-2005, 11:18 AM

Could your tire pressure be too low? I know if its too low you end up riding on the edges of the tread and the center would have a lower Coef. of Friction than if it was more inflated. Bumping it up by 5 or so might help even out the CF on the tread giving you better traction.

b8er

10-20-2005, 11:55 AM

well the 'rule of thumb' for tires in drag racing is you want as much pressure in the tires without them spinning, dont know if that helps you or not but it might

to the guy who was saying he listed to an inverview with a funny car driver saying they have to learn how to realese the clutch and whatnot, thats not
all quite true, every aspect on those cars minus the throttle pedal, brake handle, and steering wheel are all controlled by a computer, yes its true they have huge amounts of power, around the 8000hp mark but they have acuators on the magnitos that will retard the timing at any part of the racetrack they set it at so say if 300 feet out had a deep or is slipper they set the computer to knock back timming, loosing power for that section of the track then back o whatever amount of timing there running,i think what you might have been thinking of is when the clutch set up isnt right for the track and the clutch come in too fast and just blows the tires of the car, spinning like crazy so what the driver has to do is grab a little bit of brake to slow the tires down to try to get some traction, as well as peddeling the throttle , its very difficult, my dragster doesnt have nearly 8000hp but i have had the tries break lose and its very difficult to get them back and mainly you know you've lost the race so you dont bother peddaling but non the less, i like this thread, and definalty wanna see what you can pull of, 12's are definatly possible

FyreDaug

10-20-2005, 12:38 PM

And with drag racing their clutches are COMPLETELY different than ours, its basically either engaged or disengaged with those, so its not so much a matter of clutching its how much throttle you use, so that doesnt apply to this topic.

I know when I had my sunfire out at the track, I found that the best traction was at 25psi, low enough to help keep some traction but high enough not to cause drag at higher speeds. What were your tires at?

Ludi Mali

10-20-2005, 01:10 PM

I think he said 15psi earlier.

b8er

10-20-2005, 05:37 PM

yea, thats true, i forgot that part fyre_daug,the clucths are differnt, sorry, aha

AccordEpicenter

10-20-2005, 05:51 PM

Stock suspension, polyurethane swaybar bushings with a preload on the passenger side (helps me launch straighter) 2.6 60fts are the suck of suck. When my car was automatic and ran 17.1-17.3 my 60 fts were 2.3-2.4 . Water/alcohol injection is viable to run even daily driven, its cheaper than race gas, but often used in lieu of race gas (to run more boost on pump gas due to octane deficiencies) but ill stick close to 100+ octane gas so it wont detonate as easily as pump gas, at these boost levels on cast pistons, it only takes a few seconds worth of detonation to destroy these pistons. Wheelie bars do help, if you put a big preload on them so they push the rear end up and the nose down, it will help traction, but thats sort of overkill for my speed/power level, slicks should really help. I was thinking either 22-23 inch or so slicks. LSD's (at least True LSDs) are non existant for our cars, although im looking into having one custom built eventually. This is the point, i wanna run 12s on a stock longblock (stock bottom end and no head work, maybe different intake mani) /tranny a20A accord. If i had forged pistons i could easily run deep into the 12s and maybe if i had a turbo upgrade and fuel system work, into the 11s, but i gotta do this on a STOCK bottom end, and no head work. I might try a B16 intake manifold and tb, the stock accord stuff is soo restrictive im surprised im going as fast as i am. I think if i take all the rest of the shit out of my trunk (~70lb at least) take off my ps pump belt (usually worth 2 tenths if i take it off, consistantly, at least in my car) fatty slicks (22x8, or 23x8) maybe a little more tuning, i think 12s are gonna be on my timeslips next year. Usually, in these cars, every tenth you go faster in the 60 ft, is usually worth 2 tenths in your et, so going from a 2.5 60 ft to a 1.9 60 ft should net me nearly 1.2 seconds, with my ps pump off, another 2 tenths, thats nearly 1.5 sec faster just in those things. It sounds hoaky but i think it makes sense, i ran a 9.0 in the 1/8th spinning the tires the majority of the way and at 84mph with a 2.5 60 ft... All the guys at the track said that the 105mph trap speed should be in the 12s easily, but we will see. Comments? Opinions? I was thinking about putting coilovers in the rear end only, at least 250lb in ones, maybe running stock springs in the front... maybe stiffer sways (s/t). Oh yeah, launching in 2nd gear is gonna be wayyyy too hard on parts, and id probably bog anyway

FyreDaug

10-20-2005, 10:24 PM

Okay back up, first off:

into having one custom built eventually

Thats gonna be pricey and not worth it IMO, the phantom grip or whatever the hybrid tranny has will help.

IMO these mods:
B20 intake mani with BIG TB
Run a straight dump pipe for your exhaust
21x7 slicks are more than sufficient, but if your going nuts out, go for it. I wont stop you, but your broken axles will.
Boost staging if necceesary

I think if i take all the rest of the shit out of my trunk (~70lb at least) take off my ps pump belt (usually worth 2 tenths if i take it off, consistantly, at least in my car)

100lbs is typically worth 0.1 ET, less when your already fast, so dont even expect 0.1 outta that. Removing the PS pump will get you 2 tenths? Uhmm, so your saying adding 3hp will make you that much faster? I wouldnt even bother taking it off, unless your going to remove the whole pwoer steering system all together to save weight.

Do the a20's have a lightweight crank pulley?

2.6 60fts are the suck of suck. When my car was automatic and ran 17.1-17.3 my 60 fts were 2.3-2.4

Mu stock 04 GT sunfire ran 2.2 60's on stock eagle rsa's. Turning those shity 16inch rims they put on em too. Your problem is clearly traction man, just learning your car, if your not worried about wear and tear, burn the clutch if you have to, if you slip, slip the clutch. You have more control over clutch slippage than you do with tire slippage, especially since no LSD.

With the mods I listed above you will be into the 12's, or atleast very damn nnear.

Be careful with slicks though, your gonna breaks those axles with all that torque. And they are heavy too, more rotating mass. Its gonna help you, but maybe not QUITE as much as your expecting. If your not snapping axles left and right then shit maybe just the slicks are enough to push 12's.

Way to run the a20

EDIT: SUSPENSION!!!

EDIT2: I cant seem to find all my time slips for the sunfire, ,but searching for myself came up with this slip. Its a shitty one at that, but the 60ft is pretty good. linky (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:E4Q4X7BVZd4J:www.gmdelta.com/members/timeslips/3883/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22&hl=en)

linky2 (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:d_PAjztSMfQJ:www.gmdelta.com/members/timeslips/4030/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22&hl=en)

linky3 (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:CXFTA96imvQJ:www.j-body.org/members/timeslips/3887/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22+timeslip&hl=en)

linky4 (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:AoMD13z7imQJ:www.j-body.org/members/timeslips/3885/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22+timeslip&hl=en)

5 (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:loZ_E_v0YFIJ:www.gmdelta.com/members/timeslips/4031/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22+timeslip&hl=en)

6 (http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:ir1ALdfMRHgJ:www.gmdelta.com/members/timeslips/3888/+%22dallas+mazurkewich%22+timeslip&hl=en) <-- 15.7 with a 2.2 60. Stock ecotec motor with intake

sideways_LX-i

10-21-2005, 04:01 AM

agreed fyre i think those mods would do him just fine, the ACTUAL slicks will kick something like .1-2 off even the bfg drags too, so your talkin sticky fuckin tires now, and if you got the power to spin your stocks for days like you say, yeah you might wanna watch those axels like he was sayin youll rip those lil twigs apart (we only came with what 90hp or smoethin lol)

AccordEpicenter

10-21-2005, 06:52 AM

well, johnny o was pulling 1.4 60 fts on stock axles, but he was breaking them once in a while. That is a WAY HARDER launch than im planning, even tho 1.9 60 fts are a pretty hard launch too. One company claims they can build me a clutch type lsd based off of my stock diff for like $650 or so, so it might be worth it... ill have to see. While phantom grips etc will work, i dont think they are the best solution to the problem. I have no exhaust on it right now, open DP. And yeah, taking off the ps pump belt ive run 2 tenths faster all day long, ill see if i can post some slips i have taken back to back (i have like 3x with it on and 3x with it off) and it always ran 2 tenths faster when the belt was off... so go figure. I do agree about the weight tho, 70lb shouldnt be much, but anything helps at this point. Ill have to see about boost staging, but i wanna see what my traction is gonna be like on slicks first. I usually have just enough turbo lag so that i dont blow the tires away by the launch or shift, just as soon as i hit boost and start making good power she blows the tires away... so we will see

Oldblueaccord

10-21-2005, 10:30 AM

b8er

10-21-2005, 11:44 AM

there are clutch pedals and the 3 foor long trannys your thinking of are called lenco's or brunos attached to a clutch can with 6 disk clutchs ( normaly )

FyreDaug

10-21-2005, 01:53 PM

Breaking axles can be a pain though, why dont you get some lightweight ones made up? The less rotating mass will help on its own too, and you can be assured they can handle 400ft/lbs

smufguy

10-21-2005, 02:49 PM

Breaking axles can be a pain though, why dont you get some lightweight ones made up? The less rotating mass will help on its own too, and you can be assured they can handle 400ft/lbs

aftermarket axles will help you not break them, but nothing on the quarter mile. But the ones you are talking about are gonna be expensive. i dont know if driveshaftshop axles will be anything cheap. cause last time i looked at their price, they were like $550 - $600 a pair

Oldblueaccord

10-21-2005, 03:39 PM

there are clutch pedals and the 3 foor long trannys your thinking of are called lenco's or brunos attached to a clutch can with 6 disk clutchs ( normaly )

there not running lencos in funny car or top fuel in fact i dont think there running and gear its just direct staging off the clutches. Last time I remember there were 10 clutch discs in a top fuel. its all in the staging to get 6000 hp off the line even in a rail.

wp

AccordEpicenter

10-21-2005, 03:49 PM

damn, i dont think im gonna be needing big ass axles or lenco trannies yet... shyt haha

Oldblueaccord

10-21-2005, 04:21 PM

damn, i dont think im gonna be needing big ass axles or lenco trannies yet... shyt haha

yeah were hajacking i know.

Its cool your running that fast I think its great.

How does the front of your car feel on lauch. I wonder how much the radius rods are deflecting and pulling your tires in like this \ / . is your camber right at 0?

The rod in the rear is the right way to go. I wonder if rubbers in the rear springs would help firm everything up a little. Im still not sure you want the rear high I'm thinking you still want it low like a RWD drag car for less weight transfer but i might be thinking wrong on that.

EDIT:
http://www.dsm.org/tools/calchp.htm

check here says you hp is 215 with a car weight of 2800 # not to shabby

Here an good discription of the pro cars btw.

http://www.bristolmotorspeedway.com/bristol_dragway/o_reilly_nhra_thunder_valley_nationals/419429.html

They do use 6 clutch plates Im wrong. I swore frank hawley said 10 a while back.

wp

AccordEpicenter

10-21-2005, 05:42 PM

yeah i wanted to get some dyno time but the dyno guy aint around, so its gonna have to wait until next year. You know, that is a very good point you have about the radius rod bushings, because i know that they make me torque steer when they deflect... If you watch my vids, when i launch, the rear end seriously slams down about at least 3 inches. What i dont wanna do is drop the front end, because that changes my camber from zero, and doesnt drive the axles straight, so the axles have a greater possibility of breaking under the less than perfet drive angle. I might try stiffer rear springs /struts or rubber wedges to shim the springs... Dropping the rear end will transfer more weight to the rear when i launch, but raising it or just getting it stiffer should prevent that weight transfer as much as possible.

Oldblueaccord

10-21-2005, 07:41 PM

I havent see you vids computer hear at work is having trouble.

New raduis rods bushing are under $30 Im sure best thing I ever did to my front end . They make kits for civics and like that the rods are solid Z-10 I think its called.

I run my car rear high and it squats alot on take off with stock power so I was thinking lower would be better. The rwd if you notice are front high rear low(stock car classes) but of course any weight transfer helps them plant the rear tires. The lower the rear I would think the coil spring rate would be increased.

Those rubbers like the nascar style ones are cheap like under ten bucks I paid for 4. The the coil spring crimpers would be cheap as well to try to try an compress the coils some.

We used to cheat on 4wd pulling trucks and cement in the shocks :) I was just remembering that.

wp

89T

10-21-2005, 07:55 PM

can you say smaller tire more tourque! less external rotating mass...
lower 60' times...
and quoting cke "holy axle breakage, batman"
the rule of thumb is run the smallist tire you can get away with.
one other thing smaller tire = more wheel spin
so get the best rubber you can afford...

sorry i was still reading page one and thought to post then instead of after page 4.

adams86lxi

10-21-2005, 08:03 PM

shit i just realized i was getting 2.3 60ft times with the turbo in my car and thats was with 175/70/13s from walmart that werent even the same tires, one was a douglas and the other was a bridgestone lmao...

89T

10-21-2005, 08:12 PM

I turboed a ford with 205/50/14 bfg drag radials at 12 psi(tire pressure) netting 1.6 60' times.
there's the differance.....

w00tw00t111

10-21-2005, 08:26 PM

holy crap adam! What were your et's?

b8er

10-21-2005, 09:29 PM

http://www.bristolmotorspeedway.com/bristol_dragway/o_reilly_nhra_thunder_valley_nationals/419429.html theres the info i was looking for, you could be right about the 10 disks now, i know that wedsite hasnt been updated in a little bit cause i believe the rules state that the top fueler's must run 8 psi at least and the website says 6, also im pretty sure some of those fueler's are in or near the 8000hp mark, not 6000 like the website said.
again sorry for jackin the thread, im also impressed with the turbo times there, i ran 1.3 60ft times in the rail of mine so i know that 2.3s are good but theres room for improvment, keep at it man, reading through all this is just getting me more excited about going on with my buddy to boost his f22, rock on man

FyreDaug

10-21-2005, 09:59 PM

aftermarket axles will help you not break them, but nothing on the quarter mile. But the ones you are talking about are gonna be expensive. i dont know if driveshaftshop axles will be anything cheap. cause last time i looked at their price, they were like $550 - $600 a pair

Yes, but its not gonna hurt to inquire, just incase you are gonna need em. Like mentioned before, we came with 90hp...

gfrg88

10-21-2005, 10:13 PM

haha i remember adam couldnt get any grip at all his tires were slippiing so much

Justin86

10-22-2005, 10:00 AM

What kind of set up are you runnig now for suspension/tires?
It might be befit you to get an extra set of wheels tires just for track days, A type-R compound would be best and still street legal, plus they are not to spendy about $150 avg. a peice. Suspension can easily unlock another second. The key is to limit or slow down weight transfer as best as possible. Having adjustable coilover and a fully adjustable shock would be the best (Don't worry about the shocks now we are dame close to having Civic shocks be an easy swap).
The wheelie bar like mentioned will help limit weight transfer to the rear but kind of an hassle and have never priced one out, can't be cheap thought compared to a set of good drag radials.
With coil overs you'd want to raise the rear to shift more weight to the front but not too much cause after a while it will make you slower. The shocks are huge with stopping weight transfer if they are adjustable both rebound and compression. By setting the fronts to be stiff in rebound and the rear stiff in compression it will help a lot by slowing weight transfer. On the negative side that same set up will hurt you high speed stability so a compromise needs to be reached with shock settings.

oh and for a decent LSD, pretty much are only option and mine has worked great so far............. http://www.azracemachine.com/products/TwinTracs/TwinTracMenu.htm
$225 is not that bad of a price and you want to order the one for the 86-89 teg

adams86lxi

10-22-2005, 11:14 AM

holy crap adam! What were your et's?

lol bad. I could only get 14s. My clutch is what helped me get good 60ft times. It was slipping so bad that it wasnt letting much of the power get to the ground resulting in good 60ft times lmao. But it really affected me once i got into second and third gear where it would just slip non stop until the end of third gear. It sucked so bad! Then 2 days later is when my clutch disenegrated to dust (literaly) just while i was driving it regluar. Next time im at the track with my car running again i wont leave without being in the 13s. Im on more boost now and i will also most likely have slicks so maybe even alittle faster :rockon:

danronian

10-24-2005, 06:22 PM

I'm not really into the 3g accord stuff anymore but I've been doing my research on afc turbo setups and everyone on home-made turbo is usually saying that 11psi (at the map sensor) is all the stock sensors can take, but this is on a obd2 car but I thought their map sensors could read the highest, not sure about the 3g map though. I don't know if you know this but the afcs also up the timing a whole lot per amount of fuel they add and since yours is adding alot at that boost you should have your timing retarded alot so as to keep away high cylinder pressure. Pretty much the consensus on HMT is that anything above 11 psi won't work w/an afc even with the 3bar map sensor upgrade since when your adding that much fuel the afc advances the timing to far so that you can't retard the timing at the distributer enough to keep away detonation. I am assuming you knew about this afc stuff but if you didnt just check out Homemadeturbo.com, amazing stuff.

AccordEpicenter

10-27-2005, 04:00 PM

your on hmt dan? Im a HMT OG from when it first started in late 02/early 03. Yeah my map sensor doesnt read over 9 somthing psi, but i have the afc fuel correction way rich so it doesnt lean out even though the map isnt reading, but it makes the midrange and lower boost driving pig rich... but at wot it runs great. Obviously it isnt the best situation, but the end result is the car doesnt run as good as it could, but runs pretty good. I really need to swap to obd-1 and tune by crome or uberdata. The afc doesnt do shit to the timing on these cars, the timing is controlled by vaccuum advance... no computer timing maps that get skewed like when you use an afc on a civic etc. I have to run the MSD Boost timing master, and my timing is very very conservative (at least 8-10 degrees retard distributor retard) and the MSD box will take out more timing when i run street gas, and turn it to 0 retard on the msd box when i run race gas, so ill just have that 8-10 degree static retard. Its easy on the pistons, plus the race gas makes it super conservative. I also have colder special order plugs too. With better engine managemant and a better tune i could probably go 2-4 tenths faster at least, but making more power right now will just result in more wheelspin, so i wanna see how fast i can go with just more traction, which i feel will be of tremendous benefit. I ran it for the ride to and from the track (approx 135 mi round trip) and the 15-20 runs i made at the track. If the engine was really weak it most likely would have blown with that many passes and all that thrashing, but it still runs great.

b8er

10-27-2005, 05:34 PM

its so awsome to see/read about such a reliable turbo 3gee, i think once some more guys read that you can get into the 12's with a A20, and have it live as yours does, i think there will be some more boosted guys roaming the site

FyreDaug

10-27-2005, 07:09 PM

Just curious, but if it blows what are you going to do? Rebuild it for more boost? rebuilt it to factory specs or just find a j/y motor and bolt everything back in?

AccordEpicenter

10-27-2005, 07:19 PM

depends on why and how it blows. If its ringlands... prolly throw a set of forged pistons in it and rock it... Thats the only failure that i worry about

FyreDaug

10-27-2005, 07:25 PM

Stock compression or lower?

Accordtheory

10-28-2005, 10:52 AM

I really need to swap to obd-1 and tune by crome or uberdata.
Have you heard of Neptune RTP? supposedly better than s300, it has some features the s300 doesn't have. But to take advantage of all of the features, you would need vtec and a lot more.. Check out http://www.hrtuning.com It's not out yet, but it looks like it will be my first choice.

AccordEpicenter

10-28-2005, 12:26 PM

pretty much maybe the last thing id ever do is lower the stock compression... The stock LXI 9.3:1 is boost friendly as it is, even on pump gas. Ill have to check that shit out accordtheory, i already have a chipped civic p06 ecu and some other accord dizzys around here somewhere...

w00tw00t111

10-28-2005, 08:51 PM

Hey Jason, I know we talked a long time ago about turbo'ing my 3g. I'm just know about to get it out of the body shop and into the paint booth. It's took quite a bit out of my wallet. Not to completely thread steal but, what is are the ABSOLUTE necessary stock components that need replacing? Like if the stock pistons are o.k. to use then that saves me about 500 hundred dollars. If you remember I already have the FMIC, turbo, wastegate, BOV, and P75 ecu. Basically what else do I absolutely have to buy for the 3g engine i.e. non-basic turbo parts like fittings for the oil pan, IC piping and the like. I would assume that I would have to upgrade the injectors and and fuel pump. And the 92 Accord Dizzy for the OBD-1 conversion. *it is 92 right? or was it 93?* Anyways sorry to thread hog but, I thought it was appropriate. Thanks for all your help. And anybody elses that want's to contribute. :)

AccordEpicenter

10-28-2005, 09:51 PM

the only thing that i dont like about going B20 is that its a chunk of change to shell out for the motor, and the parts aint cheap if you can even find them. Adam cant even find another tranny, let alone a headgasket

Anyway... im using a 100% stock internal engine. The only non stock part bolted to the engine is the turbo manifold and injectors. Im using 450cc mitsubishi injectors and a walbro 255lph intank fuel pump with the SAFC. You have to buy the oil lines (stealthmodeperformance.com has a great kit) dont cheap out on oil lines, get the braided stainless and good fittings and you can get mandrel u bends in 2.5" for your ic piping, and just cut and weld the pipes to fit. Stealthmode has a kit for that to, or you can get summitt racing or jegs U bends... whatever works. You can use pretty much any 90-93 dizzy but id stick to 92-93 with the external coil for the obd 1 conversion. And quit jacking my thread haha jj

adams86lxi

10-28-2005, 11:23 PM

Adam cant even find another tranny, let alone a headgasket

Yea, true that! Just my headgasket was over 200$ and that took me forever to find!!! This is why im considering going back to the a20 and turboing that.

FyreDaug

10-28-2005, 11:45 PM

"Going back"? man, its gonna cost you more money that way I think, plus its not as good of a motor bottom line. Not meaning to thread jack either.

On a more relevant topic about getting into the 12's, have you decided on tires yet?

AccordEpicenter

10-29-2005, 09:14 AM

dollar for dollar you will go faster with the A20T vs going B20T, not ripping on the B20A because its a great motor, unfortunatley its expensive and hard to find

FyreDaug

10-29-2005, 10:33 AM

Then why would you go faster?

The B20 is DOHC, its lighter and theres more aftermarket support for it. How would that make the A20 faster?

b8er

10-29-2005, 10:57 AM

i think what he ment was that the a20 motor would cost less then the b20, so i asume to go through the work or swaping motors and whatnot that the a20 would come out costing less, correct? or am i was off

adams86lxi

10-29-2005, 12:34 PM

Then why would you go faster?
The B20 is DOHC, its lighter and theres more aftermarket support for it. How would that make the A20 faster?

dude there aint shit for aftermarket support for the b20a. I cant even get stock parts for it. The a20 will handle way more boost stock and cost less in repairs or whatever because all the parts are available in the U.S.

bobafett

10-29-2005, 01:56 PM

yes sir ,and they run 13s without hooking up on a stock motor barely tuned! :) a20 rocks!

i bet that he'll get into the 12s with slicks and a tune. just pulling a 2.0 60' will probably get him to 13.2's or faster. :) throw a tuned motor into the mix and u an easily pick up enough power to gain another .3 :D

rjudgey

10-31-2005, 09:45 AM

The only saving grace of a B20A is the fact the head can get enormous sized valves in the seats can go upto 35mm inlet valves adn 30mm exhaust valves, and for a NA engine that's some serious power increase you could potentially get especially combined with an increase in CR and a pair of uprated cams. The A20 the biggest the inlet valves can go is 33mm any bigger your knocking onto the bore, also with turbo the exhuast valve is too small on the A20 max size is 38mm without major mods.
Theirs pro's and cons to both the weight is about the same for both when their fully kitted up ultimately i reckon B20A would put out bigger numbers but would not last very long an A20 is definately a stronger engine but power is limited due to the valve sizes, and also parts are down most local scrap yards.
A fully prepped up A20 can achieve 250bhp King motorsports was able to get 340bhp without using a turbo in their racing engines. A turbo should get you at least 350-400bhp and keep it together for a little while where as a mild boosted A20 should be good for a very long time and still give you 200-250bhp to play with.
Personally not a fan of turbo charged cars in front wheel drive chassis's as they just understeer but drag racing can be a whole loada fun.

myaccord7

10-31-2005, 11:32 AM

has anyone used those 3puck clutches from clutchnet.com? why are they so cheap? $129? that seem low.

zach

white ricer

11-01-2005, 01:00 PM

sorry to bring up whats already been talked about but are you guys sayin theres no way to retard or advance an efi a20? ive been lookin at mine and the distributor has no adjustments, my buddies carbed a20 had an adjustable dizzy?

Its sick though how a virtually stock a20 will run into the 13's

white ricer

11-01-2005, 05:57 PM

yeah i know that but a a20a1's dizzy is adjustable and if our motors, from what i have read are identicle other then efi, why is not adjustable. If its not whats stopping someone from swapping an a20a1 dizzy and retard the timing a couple of degrees with like 390cc injectors, then you could run low boost and it would be dirt cheap... correct me if im wrong im kinda new to this whole thing.

Accordtheory

11-01-2005, 09:28 PM

250bhp King motorsports was able to get 340bhp without using a turbo in their racing engines.

I'll believe that when i personally see it. It is Damn hard to get that out of a 10k rpm b20 vtec, Fully built.

Oldblueaccord

11-02-2005, 01:39 AM

danronian

11-08-2005, 09:43 PM

I would seriously stick w/the a20 b/c of how cheap you could just get one from the junkyard if anything crazy happened to it. THere are low mileage ones around in the j/y and try doing that w/a b20 and you are quite out of luck. If I still had my accord I would be turboing it for sure, I just wish I would have looked into this stuff way back when I had it.
I've heard some good things about clutchnet clutches from my friend who had a stage 4 in his 12sec hatch but I never really researched them, i've heard much better things about the ClutchSpecialities clutches from lsd, but I have no idea if they make them for the A20.
On a side note, anyone who wants to learn how to turbo anything, including their a20, check out homemadeturbo.com, an amazing resource to say the least. For a bare-bones turbo setup for the a20 little would be required, as with any cheap turbo setup. Only really an FMU, a custom manifold, some piping, possibly an intercooler and piping, a bov, a wastegate and dumptube, a check valve for the MAP sensor, the little hoses nuts and bolts, a turbo, inline pump, and some big injectors. That type of setup would be decent for the a20, sure it wouldnt make mounds of power since it would be rich all the time, but it would still be alot more powerful than bolt-ons. Just b/c of the disposability and the wealth of j/y motors, there should be alot more people on here w/turbo setups. Sorry for the rant.

Versanick

11-09-2005, 08:06 PM

hey jason. you still haven't showed me you car. I'm still in buffalo.

anyway, I can sit and help you tune your S-AFC. I have tuned tons of kids here at UB, DSMs. I made this kid's 16lb boost 550cc injectors s-afc motor go from moving like a wrx to moving like an sti at 18lb. huge difference, stoic conditions make. I kept his o2 sensor voltage just under 1 volt. I didn't spend much time, and a wideband would make it much easier.

but the s-afc can be GREAT for tuning. if you come hang out with me, we can spend some time with your car. o2 sensor can hook straight into the S-AFC, and voltage will read. and no, it's not perfect. But I'm willing to bet you're rich as sin real early and mid, and moderately still up top.

your vac-adv dizzy is also, keep in mind, retarding for boost (rather, not advancing, which is retarded in relation to how it would advance for high rpm). BTM is great. i'd go 1 deg extra, on top of the fact that it's a vac dizzy anyway.

also, if you have a MSD 6AL, get the staging setup. You can put in a chip for, say, 3000, and you wire it to rev out at 3k with the clutch down, then as soon as the clutch is released, the rev limit is set to whatever your other MSD (or stock ecu) limit is, and you don't spin too hard.

I launch at 4500ish at half throttle, and lay on it progressively, hit rev limit, and then hit second.

and water injection is a great way to run more boost and avoid detonation. i'd go for it.

awesome project. LSD sucks for launching, IMO. i always got better launches before LSD. with LSD, both tires just spin out (unless you have slicks or something), and without, at least one tire is getting SOME traction. I also have the super-heavy stock flywheel. helps big time for launches. that's why I suggest the MSD stager.

peace
paul

AccordEpicenter

11-10-2005, 06:05 PM

Haha ive still been living out of town, paul... 300mi away in Saratoga springs ny (thats 300+ miles) working etc..., and its put away for the winter (oh well). I have the 8lb flywheel, so its tough to launch, but the top end is SICK. Im gonna try to go obd1 next year because i really need a step up in engine managemant, running an FMU at anything over 6 psi is really risky (i would never run one... just ask Justin and adam how well the FMU worked) and the SAFC is a good tool but at 13+ psi boost its just not adequate. For 10psi max it would be good but at 13psi its time for an upgrade. The BTM has worked pretty well actually. Basically, my tune right now really sucks, youre pretty much right though, out of boost its pig rich, in boost its rich, and at wot-full boost its probably an 11.5:1 afr (just a wild guess) me and a friend have a wideband but i didnt try it yet (lack of downpipe haha) Oh yeah, and dan, you are right, Homemadeturbo is a great site, im an OG there too. You do great things with a cheap turbo kit, but one thing you shouldnt skimp on is fuel managemant if you want your engine to last, so anything over 6psi (id at least go 8-9-10psi for good power) youll need to have bigger injectors, somthing to control your fuel, either by a different ecu/chipping, safc etc or whatever, not just an fmu, and an intercooler is a must, 200 degree air temps are detonation prone situations. So leave the checkvalves out of it, and keep your engine together. You can get full throttle launch control (think stutterbox) with crome and uberdata and instead of removing spark (makes a rich condition and can get smokey) they do it by holding off fuel, and thats a better situation, although theres nothing wrong with a stutterbox. Slicks are gonna be a must next season... on open diff haha. I dont have a 6A or 6AL, i just have a BTM 5462 on an otherwise stock ignition. It works way better than the accel coil i had, that smoked in 2 days or so

Edit: Oh yeah, the inspection is already 6 mos OVERDUE, and i still have no exhaust lol

Oldblueaccord

11-10-2005, 09:58 PM

Shouldn't need exahust for inspection unless you need an emissions check.
Hell you dont even need a body to pass. Might have to where a helmet is all.
:uh:

wp

AccordEpicenter

11-11-2005, 09:47 AM

in ny we have emissions shyt so i technically should be running a cat etc... some stuff like that

Accordtheory

11-11-2005, 10:23 AM

I can't believe you were just 'wild guessing' on your tune..
I remember you were clowning me before, you were like, "accordtheory, did you blow your engine again? well, with no intercooler what did you expect?"
Shit, at least I used a wideband!

The whole reason why I had damage was because of that stupid o34efi supplemental injector controller. That thing is so sensitive, turning on my headlights would cause it to misread rpm. No shit. So I would get an a/f ratio that would barely jump around, too quickly to really show up, but still enough to cause knock. I finally figured out that I needed to run an extra shielded grounded wire over one of the crank angle sensor output wires..it was really weird. That thing fucked up 2 engines, and the dude who sells it, javad shadzi, doesn't know Shit about it, or how to hook it up! He changed his website instructions because of Me. So, by the time I got my liquid intercooler and sean's gm ecm setup, my engine was already damaged. with sean's ecm, I would be at like 11.8:1 under boost, and that ecm had a good knock sensor too. Another reason why I could kind of get away with no intercooler with that setup was that it had a good intake air temp sensor, and would take out a lot of timing if based on intake air temp. Sean didn't have an intercooler for a while either.

AccordEpicenter

11-11-2005, 01:48 PM

yea but having an intercooler really helps surpress detonation and improve power... 210 degree intake air temps arent good for power or detonation, especially on pump gas. Yeah, its a guess tune based on how much fuel i should be getting with the 450cc injectors at the correction percentage, but since the map sensor stops reading at like 9.5 psi or so, i just had to richen it up on an educated guess to compensate for it. Basically i know i have enough fuel but its much too rich at anything except WOT and in boost, which really is far from ideal and kills low end power somtimes til it bogs. The big things that have helped this motor live on 13psi boost has been the conservative ignition timing, colder plugs, a good intercooler, and good octane fuel. I mean, if i was unintercooled i wouldnt run as fast and the engine really wouldnt have lasted on stock plugs and pump gas even as long as it has, even on a .5-.7 degree ignition retard per psi. I really need to go obd1 and get tuning though and make it run like it should. And yea, i run my mouth all the time, you know that

Accordtheory

11-11-2005, 02:13 PM

lol...
I still don't know what type of intercooler I'm going to run with my new setup. I don't know how much hp my syclone liquid unit is good for, probably like 300? but since I'll be running something like a holset hx40 or he351cw, that won't be close to the airflow capacity I need..I'll probably end up with a bigger liquid unit, since I already have all the plumbing set up.

Oldblueaccord

11-11-2005, 05:26 PM

in ny we have emissions shyt so i technically should be running a cat etc... some stuff like that

In your co? really.

I grew up in Otsego co. its a free for all. Thats gonna suck getting it to pass. Have to but a full boat exhaust on it and limp it over there get it to pass and then save that set up for last year. WTF was up with the snow in October. my falken azenis didnt like it to much :bowrofl:

I saw your vids finally. I see that your car is see-sawing off the line. Its moving back and forth like 2 times at least and the wheel hop is part of that.

I think I'm liking the idea of the back end high now that I thought about it a few weeks. The radius rod bushing be the first and cheapest thing to do to start with.

wp

AccordEpicenter

11-12-2005, 11:27 PM

yea my stock suspension as a whole really sucks. Im gonna start buying parts to upgrade... Yeah chances are that nobody will look for a cat but you never know. I wanna put on the rest of the downpipe anyway, somtimes the fumes get stinky haha

Versanick

11-13-2005, 06:17 PM

We banged the piss out of my cat with a hammer. and then dumped out what was inside. So I have my cat, and don't have it too. Kind of like having your cake and eating it too. Sort of.

I'd at least buy some $100 coilovers, drop more in the front than rear. and you can avoid getting just the coilovers (and not struts) by not going too low. Stiffness is going to make such a difference. it's really amazing.

You have to make friends with some local mechanics to "inspect" your car. I've never failed "inspection". Even when I was throwing black, unburned gas from the exhaust.

and a stutter box would be great for launching.

I'm telling you though, obd1's a huge investment. If you can make it happen, do it. But what the MAP sensor detects really doesn't matter if you're using the S-AFC, and you've got your big injectors. You should be like -50%'s until you boost, then probably -10% or -20% when you're at 5-7lb, and maybe break up to 0 at 10lb, though after, you'll have to find more like +30% to make enough fuel, as the MAP isn't going to read anything more. a GReddy E-Manage would work great, too.

good luck though.

smufguy

11-16-2005, 03:54 PM

if you can find ways to minimize the initial weight transfer to the rear and get more weight on the front (lower and stiffer shocks/springs) you should be able to avoid a lot of slippage. Also, getting a two stage tune with a initial boost limit of 5psi and then with increasing speed having a second boost limit would also help. These are all the basic things that you already know. With a tall gear like ours and with the pretty bad weight distribution, our cars are pretty sad when it comes to launching. Jhonny-O had the same problem and when we saw him at the tracks it was the same thing. It was hard for him to get traction when the other FWD cars were just hooking up 1/4 down the track.

How is your wheel hop? Do you ever get one or u just loose traction?