A/T Issue

[DBMaster]

Several years ago my transmission started having an issue with delayed shifting into fourth gear. It usually only happened when it was cold (I live in Texas and the car is garaged, though) in the winter. Once it warmed up it would shift into fourth. For a couple of years I could just change the transmission fluid ahead of schedule (every 30K miles with synthetic fluid). The fluid has never been dirty and there has never been excessive metal on the drain plug magnet. It seems to have this issue now even in the summer. I can get it to shift to fourth by goosing the accelerator a tad and then letting off. Once I have been on the road for a few miles it is OK.

I am thinking that there is a fluid passage that is a bit restricted (242K miles on the car), or possibly I have a sticky valve. On my old Pontiac there was an external vaccum modulator and something like this was a sign to replace it. This transmission has several external electronic control parts, but I don't know if any of those are to blame.

Anyone else had this problem and actually fix it? Or, do I just blow it off and count myself lucky that I have a functional tranny after this many miles?

Thank you, amigos!

[spanky]

when i had my a/t accord i had a similar problem but it was going into 3 gear so i couldn't go above 40mph.Im not sure but i was told by a mechanic that if you change the selenoid (sry about spelling) that it should work. I never could find out where the selenoid was so i parked it and then i found out my neighbor was selling an 88 lxi for $75 bucks and it was 5spd andran so i picked that up and it's been my lil hoopdie ever since. so mabey if u can find the damn seleniod u'd be able to fix it but i have no clue.


good luck.

[lamontlamont]

If you can get it to go into 4th gear by pressing hard on the gas pedal it might not be the transmission. i had that problem also. i had to step on the gas hard to get it to downshift. this might sound funny but it turned out to be either a gas filter which restricted the gas or a pcv valve or a breather element. fuel filter clogging can cause it to lose power as you accelerate. it might seem like a transmission but it can sometimes be the fuel filter. this car has two fuel filters one by the gas tank one under the hood next to the wiper motor. change the pcv valve, both fuel filters and the air filter. also the breather element that is on the side of the carb canister. some people have cars that have never had the fuel filters changed.

i had to floor my car to get to 70mph, now that i changed my filters the car is waaaay better and it shifts correctly now.. ps, i also did my rotor and distributor cap while i was at it. you will be surprised how many problems are caused by lack of a full tune up.

[POS carb]

the transmission contains all the parts internally, you have to take it apart to change anything, even the governor. There are no electronic parts in the F4 (automatic) transmission

try adding some slack to the TV cable (throttle valve) Once you have loosened it the car should shift sooner and wait for you to press the pedal harder before downshifting. If you do this and the car still won't go to 4th the valves/governor are sticking which leave your options as Lucas ATF treatment or a rebuild

[DBMaster]

Thanks POS Carb, that sounds pretty plausible. It still downshifts very readily when I press the accelerator so I can try adding a little slack to the cable. There was a guy on the Car Talk web site who always swore by Trans-X so I did try some of that about a year ago. It didn't do squat so I changed out the fluid about a month later.

The issue is not yet serious enough for a rebuild since it works great otherwise. Do you think the Lucas stuff is that good? I usually shy away from additives of any kind.

[NastyNate]

lucuis is good stuff it fixed my mothers 4x4 and helped out a dead tranny of mine. i use the stuff all the time in my trannys now.

[BITESIZE]

Can I hear 5 speed swap?

[NastyNate]

LOL ya i have noticed when an A/T acts up the 5 speed swap follows :)

but hay thats the only way to go :)

[epic1400cs]

I am not sure if this is your case and I am not familier the service standard in US but, I was told that we need to use only Honda genuine AT fluid. When I had JDM model with B20A automatic (I believe very simillar to out box) in Japan 10years back, I have tried to add some additive which supposed to make the shift shock milder. The manufacturer was well known in Japan and threre are a lot of good reputation. However, next week after I put it in, the auto box started statter and I brought it to the garage where I bought the car originally. I was told that my auto box is dead and need to replace. The mechanic told me that our auto box is designed by Honda, not aisin or or other manufacturer widely used, and need to use genuine fluide.

Later I have a chance to spoken to an engeneer who is working for AT fluide manufacturer, not Honda, as a researcher and he confirmed that, too. I recommend you to change the fluide back to genuine honda one and due to the neture of the fluide system, you should change at least two time. After this trouble I stick with genuine fluide and I experienced no trouble at all. Just my 1 cent.

[86-accord-lxi]

I have had similar problems with my 86 lxi auto.
search in "how to" for adjusting automatic transmission.
It will tell you how to adjust the TV cable. The TV cable essentialy
"tells" the transmission when to shift, and "tells" the torque coverter when
to lock up. HONDA A.T.F-Z1 ONLY, DO NOT USE ANY OTHER FLUID!
I would not recommend using any additiives either, but I broke my own rule,
and used lucas auto trans treatment because I was desperate to have my tranny work right. It seemed to smooth out the shifting quite a bit.
Mine was not shifting from 1st to 2nd on it's own ,and still doesn't.
There was a TSB issued about the auto tranny's in 86-89 accords.
And TSB on how to properly adjust the Throttle cable, and TV cable.
I found this:
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=60006C&Category_Code=Honda-4-AKkits&Product_Count=3

and also:
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=60400C

E mail me at : [email protected]
If you want me to send you the TSB on hot to properly adjust the TV cable.
The other TSB is in here somewhere, just do a search.

ALSO : you may have a faulty Interlock or keyswitch.
If the interlock solenoid is noy functioning properly, It can cause
the transmission to have "irregularities". The interlock and keyswitch work together to insure you don't start the car in gear, or shift while the switch is off. The brake pedal must usually be pressed to enable shifting of the transmisssion. A solenoid in the center console actuates a lock release pin
to enable shifting. A mispositioned solenoid, or Bad solenoid will disable
shifting.

[Baveara]

sorry i didn't read the other post so this may have been posted already but the best thing i have found is SEAFOAM it come sin a metal bottle it's white and the shit works thought that i would say that .

[POS carb]

there are no electrical connections to the tranny, the interlock only affects the starter on this car

[DBMaster]

Well, I have heard that Honda-only fluid statement before. It's got to be BS. My dipstick says Honda or Dexron II. Dexron III exceeds the old Dexron II requirements. Regardless, I have used about everything EXCEPT Honda fluid for the entire 242,000 miles and it shifts just fine. I have used only synthetic Mobil 1, or synthetic blend fluid exclusively for the last 13 years. Maybe Honda's fluid is better, but if it required ONLY Honda fluid it would say so, just like the P/S.

[HondaBoy]

i was going to say adjust the throttal value cable. i wonder if that's all mine needs, its shifts wierd. gotta let off between shifts to make it shift smooth. a transmisson shop told me something about changing out a solenoid, dont know how to do that so i havent messed with it. i hate when a/t's mess up, they are a bitch.

oh, about the Honda a/t fluid. they told me at the dealership parts desk that the fluid was like mobil synthetic. that i didnt have to use specificly a/t fluid that says Honda on it. just to use at least dexron II. has to be synthetic. next time i'll save some money and buy synthetic fluid at a parts store. it was about $20 for 3 quarts of honda a/t fluid.

[DBMaster]

Well, that's not so bad. You can buy the Honda fluid online for less. Mobil Synthetic A/T fluid is like $6 a quart these days. Seems odd how most of the motor oil products we buy have probably been in inventory since long before the current "fuel crisis." Seems like some corporations are really cashing in. I have use Valvoline and QS semi-synthetic fluids as well with very good results.

Since my issue simply seems to be that the transmission is hesitant to shift in 4th when it is cold I don't think it is a TV cable issue. Once I get enough RPM's, or the engine is warm it's no problem. Otherwise, the shifts are as smooth as they ever were and occur at the usual RPM levels.

[epic1400cs]

Well, I have heard that Honda-only fluid statement before. It's got to be BS. My dipstick says Honda or Dexron II. Dexron III exceeds the old Dexron II requirements. Regardless, I have used about everything EXCEPT Honda fluid for the entire 242,000 miles and it shifts just fine. I have used only synthetic Mobil 1, or synthetic blend fluid exclusively for the last 13 years. Maybe Honda's fluid is better, but if it required ONLY Honda fluid it would say so, just like the P/S.

I see your point. I had a chance to ask exactly same question as you have to the specialist I mentioned before. He has been working for Japanese car company start with 'M' for last 35 years only for A/T development. I feel that ATF is not the main cause of your AT problem in thie thread but I just write down here as his opinion is very interesting and sound. He is Japanese and I translated what he said so appology for poor direct translation.

"Very low coefficient of friction μ is the particularlity of Honda ATF compare to majority of the ATF for other manufacturer. I believe Honda set such a low μ factor in order to reduce judder from the AT. Therefore, Honda should have clearly state that the Dexron ATF is not suitable for their AT. This is simply becasue there is no μ factor restriction in DEXRON standard. However, in US and EU there is very strong pressure from antitrust law that limits Honda to state such a restriction regarding the use of ATF on users manual or workshop manual.

It is great shame that the company have to recommend an ATF that doesn't best match to their AT. This type of contradiction may derived from a distance between R & D department and manual publishing department. In any case, only for Honda, if you want to avoid any trouble you should use genuine ATF.'

Umm, I didn't know that DEXRON don't define μ factor of ATF. I just put it here for you to judge by yourself.

[DBMaster]

Epic,

Thanks for that post. It does make some sense to me. I guess at this point it doesn't make much difference for me, but considering that Honda ATF is not that expensive if I have a chance to have a NEW Honda some day I will probably stick with it.