Body work... bondo question

[AccordDX86]

Hey guys. Got some rust in my wheel wells and I was wondering if I could cut that out, and another one from a decent JY car, and bondo it on. If I could, what kind of cutter would I use? And would if be difficult? Remember, I have no body work expierience at all. I would get it done at like maaco, but they'd probably charge a lot, and being my car is not a classic, though it should be, I'm not gonna throw that much money into body work. But, what options do I have? If it was painted, which I plan on doing, would it cover up the rust? Thanks.

-Brett

[3G Jester]

well you would end em removing the whole pannel and putting a new one on. but most likely the j/y fender will have rust too..and more of it. post a pic of your damage and we will go from there.

get a dremmel and you jsut gently grind away all the rust untill there is just nice shinny metal. if there is too much rust you might end up cutting away like 5 inches of the pannel and have nothing to rebuild...then you will have a giant hole..and the rust would have been better. then you fill it in with bondo putty and bondo fiberglass sheets. ill do getto paint box diagrams if you need me to. but just post pics first.

soo...just post a pic dont touch it and we will go from there.

[AccordDX86]

Ok, I'll take a pic, and post it tomorrow. Also, its not in the middle of the body, Its on the outside, rounded around the wheel. I guess for an '86, that spent a lot of its life in New York state, its not that bad, but, I want it to look real good.

[3G Jester]

i lived in ct for 18 years. i did what you want to do on a dx hatch.

[AccordDX86]

Oh, ok. I guess then, a pic will solve most everything, aside from the work itself.

[SteveDX89]

You can buy replacement piece online. They are just the wheel well part so you don't have to replace the whole panel. You can't just bondo it on tho. It has to be welded. Ground smooth. Then primed and painted.

[AccordDX86]

Ugh. This sounds like something, I should either leave, or have professionally done. I'll post a pic later today.

[AccordDX86]

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/aboondocksaint03/detail?.dir=/e721&.dnm=5124.jpg&.src=ph
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/aboondocksaint03/detail?.dir=/e721&.dnm=2752.jpg&.src=ph

[3G Jester]

yeah you got some nasty rust man. i used like an entire can just to fill it...then bondo fiberglass sheets over that..then filler to smooth it and then send and primer. and thats a GHETTO fix.

the rust you see is on an outer layer that you will grind away...then its open and there is another sheet of metal like 2 inches or so behind that. basically you end up stuffing bondo in there till it becomes solid and you can form it and shape it\..layer by layer.....it sucks.

try looking for replacement parts first.

[AccordDX86]

Should I just leave it? Is there any other way to get rid of that? Also, that piece is connected to the roof, no? I dont know, seems like it would be a real pain in the ass.

[88Accord-DX]

Check around for a local metal fab. shop, they might be able to cut that little piece out and weld you some sheet metal in there cheap. If your cheap, you can grind that shit out with a grinder & bondo it.

[AccordDX86]

I'm not cheap, or creative, so I wouldnt be able to do that. Hell, if I have money, I spend it. But, thats just the problem, I'm out of work out the moment, so my gas tank is below E and I have been driving my brothers Geo tracker around. What an uncomfortable car. But, I should have money soon, and I'll go looking for a metal shop and see what they can do.

[3G Jester]

if your in HS talk to some buddies in a metal shop..or find a local high school, college, or automotive school. sometimes all you do is pay for the sheet metal and they do it for free....as practice...then you could hand sand it and smooth it and paint it yourself.

[myaccord7]

fiberglass sheets dont do anything. to do it right youll have to cut it out and weld a new peice in. grind down the welds and use only 1\8 thick bondo to cover up your grind marks. feather-end the bondo & paint, and then prime it. i do this all the time at school, im going for auto body.


zach

[newaccorddriver]

If your cheap, you can grind that shit out with a grinder & bondo it.


i have a similar rust problem on my accord, particularly the fender, and the trunk, and parts of the side skirts(or whatever its called). is it possible to sand the rust out, prime it and repaint it? the rust HAS NOT eaten through any metal yet so there are no holes at all

[88Accord-DX]

i have a similar rust problem on my accord, particularly the fender, and the trunk, and parts of the side skirts(or whatever its called). is it possible to sand the rust out, prime it and repaint it? the rust HAS NOT eaten through any metal yet so there are no holes at all
I'm not no professional body man, but from what I know, you can grind that rust out with a orbital wire brush REAL GOOD & sand it down with some coarse sand paper. Just make sure you have no rust when done. After that, should be able to prep it with cleaner. Prime & bondo it afterwards.

[newaccorddriver]

I'm not no professional body man, but from what I know, you can grind that rust out with a orbital wire brush REAL GOOD & sand it down with some coarse sand paper. Just make sure you have no rust when done. After that, should be able to prep it with cleaner. Prime & bondo it afterwards.


well, that sounds like it should do the trick. i think if theres still metal beneath the rust, then sanding it, priming it, and then painting it should be find cause theres still sometihng to paint on. im not sure if the metal has to be a certain thickness for it to be painted on though

[myaccord7]

it will work for awhile but the rust WILL come back. there is no way to wire wheel it all out.




zach

[w00tw00t111]

Zach can't you sand that aread of the panel with a DA sander and then paint on rust preventative? I remember I was asking a body man about it and he said that was the best route. Then on top of the rust preventative which neutralizes it from spreading you put a 1/16" layer of bondo, primer, paint, and clear.

[Robs89LXi]

Introduce it to POR-15.
http://www.por15.com/Default.asp?

[myaccord7]

ive never heard of that POR-15, i dont see it working. there is no way to stop the rust from growing. it might work , but it will come back in about a year. the "best" way is to cut it all off and weld on a new panel.


zach

[gp02a0083]

por-15 is great stuff , i used it with my olds 442 and its great stuff this stuff WILL STOP rust i even have the frame from my other car practially dipped in it

if u put this stuff on a non rusted out 3gee hell it will last forever

[myaccord7]

i'll ask my auto body teacher about it today in class. that would be great if it did work.



zach

[AccordDX86]

There is a way to prevent rust. Rust actually comes from a VERY small electical charge. A while back, a company tried to introduce a product to negate the electric charge, I havent heard or read about it in some time.

[myaccord7]

i dont know about that electric charge thing. rust comes from bare metal, water and oxygen. wet bare metal will not rust if there is no oxygen. ive never heard of electric charge causing rust.



zach

[Ichiban]

rust is infact an electrochemical reaction. some boats have blocks of zinc bolted to them to prevent corrosion, as zinc has a higher affinity for oxidization. this is called cathodic (not catholic) protection. it, like galvanizing, protects the metal by "stealing" away the slight electric charge and itself corroding. anyways, cut out the metal and weld in new stuff. soon as i steal the girlfriends camera i'm gonna put together a how-to on bodywork welding so you guys can stop stuffing your cars full of bondo.

[AccordDX86]

Also, wont a car not rust without salt? I remember reading about a car company that stopped there US sales hope because the cars would rust sitting on the docks. Also, I've seen Honda daily drivers in Long Island, NY where i'm from and the cars do not rust. I guess up where I am the grade or amount of salt must differ from Long Island.

[Ichiban]

?

[Ichiban]

salt turns ordinary water into an electrolyte, basically meaning it's now very good at conducting current. pure water is actually a poor electrolyte, it's all the dissolved crap and ions in solution that make it so... salt just makes it easier for the oxygen in the water to find the iron in your car and rip it apart into oxides. your car will still rust without salt, just more slowly. the best way to prevent rust is to wash off the salt and mud, and seal any leaks that turn your floor pan into a lake.

[thabeana]

In my experience with bodywork, you should use fiberglass and then bondo. If you do what was suggested above, with "forming" the panel with bondo alone? Not a good idea. Fiberglass is much more adhesive than bondo from what I've dealt with. Stronger as well. It does make you itch if you don't cover up though...lol Just my 2 cents but i guarantee that it will last longer than straight bondo. (btw no offense to whoever suggested forming w/ bondo!) Bondo is good, but not in excessive amounts.

[myaccord7]

Not too bad of an idea. Bondo should NOT be put on thick. If you have to, fiberglass under it but fiberglass is not water proof so it will rust back through but from the back side. Aluminum bondo is water proof but it’s just like regular bondo, it can’t be put on thick.


Zach

[lostforawhile]

por-15 is great stuff , i used it with my olds 442 and its great stuff this stuff WILL STOP rust i even have the frame from my other car practially dipped in it
if u put this stuff on a non rusted out 3gee hell it will last foreverthat was tested against the eastwood companys rust preventive product,and the eastwood product won hands down .it's called rust encapulator www.eastwood.com as far as preventing rust from coming back after taking a panel to bare metal,you have to use a self etching primer,which you can get in a spray can,it's not cheap,nappa sells one from duplicolor,this etches into the metal and helps prevent the rust from coming back.you put regular primer over this. the primer you get at walmart in the automotive section usually isn't worth a crap. you eithier have to use a self etching primer or you can use an epoxy based primer which has to be mixed and used from a spray gun. these are really the only two options for properly protecting bare metal. as far as bondo,that is a dirty word in my automotive colision repair class. it's autobody filler,and the bondo brand is worthless,use something from an automotive paint supplier, if you use inferior products you will get inferior results. there really is a big difference in the quality. my preference is for the nappa brand of filler,it actually csts less for the same size can as bondo does,and it doesn't have nearly the problems.

[lostforawhile]

i dont know about that electric charge thing. rust comes from bare metal, water and oxygen. wet bare metal will not rust if there is no oxygen. ive never heard of electric charge causing rust.
zach you are right,rust is called oxidation,this is a chemical reaction,requiring iron,water and oxygen, seal off the water and you stop the rust,seal off the air the same. it takes all three parts. the reason cars rust so bad up north is that the salt attacks the paint and undercoating,then it reacts with the metal to oxidize it. salt is the worst thing that you could ever have for your car. if cars rusted from electric charges,they would turn to dust under the paint,and there would be no old cars. I think what they were refering to is galvanic corrosion,that is where two different metals,e.g. iron and aluminum cause an electric charge between then forming a battery in essence.

[gp02a0083]

por-15 and navel jelly are ur friends to get rid of rust

[Ichiban]

hey lostdude. paint keeps out the water (electrolyte) which keeps away the ions and stops the oxidation, along with the net release of energy (electrical current created). however, give water a chance to eat at a bare edge of a painted piece of metal, and it will creep along under the paint. rustbubbles anyone?