5000-5500ish problems

[FyreDaug]

Alright I just did my winter tune up, consisting of 15w40 synthetic, higher end oil filter. Ran a bunch of seafoam through it before oil change. Cleaned my K&N and re-oiled. Changed both fuel filters, adjusted float (turned it down)... Uhh didnt bother checking plugs though, they were new <7500km ago with plats. I have dual ignition coil wired up (2x stockers), stock wires. I ran some carb cleaner through the tank when it was below 1/8th too. Cleaned everything right out. Seafoam in oil, through motor and in gas tank.

Power seems to be better, no change in idle and it still doesnt drop the HSI until its been running 30mins.

It'll pull like a mofo up to 5000 where itll stutter, it sounds like a backfire almost, but the exhaust is so godammn loud I dont know what it is. Coming from exhaust maybe a misfire, doesnt that for <1 second and continues to pull like a mofo. Whats the deal? What should I check first?

Other things new:
Custom WAI
Vacuum line removal (seems to have started minorly when I did this...)
Pacesetter-2.5"glasspack exhaust.
I dunno... a big carputer system.
A partially dying alternator (sometimes the light comes on at this time, or near it)
Plugs are gapped high to accommodate the dual ignition..
New PCV (<10000km)

What should I check first? It was doing this before the tune up, now its gotten a little worse. I suppose, progessively worse since the vac removal.. I dont have the fuel evap cannister or whatever the fuck its called hooked up. (under the vacuum crazy box before it was hucked) It has a thick (5/8"??? line coming out of it, ,looks like it was for fuel)

Uhh, I posted pics somewhere here and on www.theaccordforums.com under 3rd gen. Shows engine bay.:uh:

[A20A1]

well seems like you have electrical problems if the alt light comes on...

The vac removal may cause some issue too, but normally it would be below 5,000 rpm.


change your gap perhaps.


make sure your tank can vent it's fuel vapor.

there was no fuel line of the vacuum box or air box... the only fuel lines were on the carb... one for fuel vapor the other for fuel from the tank.

don't forget you check your booster venturies... especially the secondary one.


edit:

I can't see the details... get a close up of the carb and vacuum lines... :)

[FyreDaug]

Ok I'll try tomorrow, its not my cam, its roommates, but ill steal it from him. I'll also take a pic of the fuel vapor cannister or whatever too. It has vacuum lines going to it...

I have about a 40A load with my carputer system, and ill only get the light at high volumes. It still does it with system off at 5000

[FyreDaug]

I posted this in carb tech, but I dont think its carb related anymore, and its not quite as active as here. And since the problem could be anything, I think its a better idea for it to be here.

Anyways, to summerize the problem, between 5000-5500rpm I get a misfire/backfire or something (exhaust is loud, hard to tell). Sometimes my alternator light will come on during this time because it is starting to go, but it has been doing this for a while, but its getting worse

I have dual ignition coil wired up (2x stockers), stock wires. I ran some carb cleaner through the tank when it was below 1/8th too. Cleaned everything right out. Seafoam in oil, through motor and in gas tank.

Custom WAI
Vacuum line removal (seems to have started minorly when I did this...)
Pacesetter-2.5"glasspack exhaust.
I dunno... a big carputer system.
A partially dying alternator (sometimes the light comes on at this time, or near it)
new plugs/cap/rotor <10000km
Plugs are gapped high to accommodate the dual ignition..
New PCV (<10000km)

What should I check first? It was doing this before the tune up, now its gotten a little worse. I suppose, progessively worse since the vac removal.. I dont have the fuel evap cannister or whatever its called hooked up. (under the vacuum crazy box before it was hucked) It has a thick (5/8"??? line coming out of it, looks like it was for fuel)

Uhh, I posted pics somewhere here and on www.theaccordforums.com under 3rd gen. Shows engine bay, but not very well, I havent been able to get any new pics yet.

But like I said, power is definately there, so its only between this rpm band, it struggles to get through it, usually in a race its more beneficial to shift right when it does it, because otherwise it'll take a while to go through the rpms. It takes longer in the higher gears though.

I'm going to try getting 2 msd blasters and some new wires, ill check the cap/rotor (which im sure is fine, because I checked it <5000km when it was doing this) and check the plugs. I think they are gapped near .070, bosch plats

[POS carb]

i'd try lowering the gap on the plugs, the coils are probably firing through worn electrodes, or the cap is going...
if it leans out the car will lurch (stall) forward, this can be caused by bad fuel filters, bad pump, or debris in the carburetor

[A20A1]

maybe since you have dual coils it's taking too long to recharge the coils... so you fire and you actually get less power out of the coils.

[FyreDaug]

Well I did some investigating today, checked all the plugs, they all look the same. Perfect. Not too lean, not too rich, but the good kind "white" that they should look.

So I pulled off the cap, and wow. Apparantly they dont like that much voltage. I dont know how the post from the coil to the cap is still giving power to the rotor, it looks like the metal has been destroyed. There is some slight scarring at the end of the rotor and the 4 posts, sanded em up a little, same with the top post of the rotor. But the inside of the cap has some plastic damage aswell, like the power post has been melting or something.

I think next step is a real ignition, just a SINGLE blaster 2 coil, some good wires and a new cap/rotor. I'll leave the plugs.

But whats the deal with it? I got some better low end torque with the duals, but I dont remember if the stuttering happened before the duals. If I try to go back to just a single, I'll have to destroy the whole dual setup and I dont know if it would go back together easily. I'm still not entirely sure what the problem is. The part store doesnt list the right cap, but I got it from a different place last time I got the cap/rotor kit. Can I use a different cap?

The one I've got has the 4 posts going around the clock, and the only ones they list have all 4 to 1 side. Should it matter? Will this one work? Its more expensive and doesnt come with a rotor, so I would have to buy that seperately, maybe since it costs more its able to handle more abuse?

But if it is the duals at like 90000V that is killing it, I dont want to go spend 30 some bucks on a cap and rotor and have it melt up again (solving the problem or not). So I think maybe the blaster 2 should come first, see if that solves the problem. Because AFAIK the inside of the cap is burned up after <10000km

EDIT: Thanks mike for the merge... wasnt sure if someone would see it or not.

How would the fuel be venting its vapor properly? Whats should be hooked up? I guess what I'm asking is, how does it vent?

EDIT2:
if it leans out the car will lurch (stall) forward, this can be caused by bad fuel filters, bad pump, or debris in the carburetor

Only thing could be a bad pump, but it would hurt at all higher rpms, not just this narrow band

[FyreDaug]

Well I did a little more checking, and if the fuel vent vapor thinger is on the front right of the carb (looking from the front of the car) with the ... 3/8"? 1/2"?? out, its plugged, its next to the float viewer.

Also, the reason i think that cannister thing is for fuel is because it has the same braided red-like hose the fuel line going to the car does. It has a same size diameter hose (I think) as the vent thing, but its plugged aswell. It has some vacuum hoses going into it (2 I think) and the fuel line like hose.

WTF.

Turns out it did happen after I did the vac removal, according to my other posts. And never did cure it. I can come up to the 4500 mark slow-like and then punch it, and itll go like nuts, wont hesitate or anything.. Must have to do with the big plugged line thing.

My fuel tank when its damn near E also has alot of pressure when I open the cap too, ,hisses for about 3-4 seconds when you open it. Then again, the tank is mostly fumes at that point, might be normal.... Iunno

[FyreDaug]

Also, I should mention that this problem got more erratic and more missfiring or whatever its doing since I did the tune up. I had to turn the scren for the float in about a turn and a half to two turns to get it to the middle level. Maybe this has something to do with it? Maybe its all related to the fact that it probably isnt venting fuel at all...

100% sure it didnt happen before vac removal, Ill do my best to get vids and pics tomorrow. Anyone know where I can post vids? Small ones <4megs

[A20A1]

Not so, I'v plugged the float vent and that vent is plugged on some stock accords in Egypt/MiddleEast type areas. That is not the cause... however if you fail to vent the fumes via the two brass ports that protrude over the barrels then you'll have problems.

Did you ever reset yout plug gap?

you need a hitatchi cap for a hitatchi distributor... and tec cap for a tec distributor.

yes the hose is red but it is for fuel vapor... it is the fuel that the carburetor sucks in when the car first starts up.

[FyreDaug]

In about 10mins im gonna call Ian and see if I can use his camera and anything im not 100% sure of, hopefully you can help me out.

The plugs are actually gapped at 0.050-0.055 or so, which actually isnt that high. The inside of the cap though kinda scared me, ill take pics of that too. I think I may have solved my high speed idle not kicking down, but I'll have to check that out too.

Also on a side note, the car died last night idling outside, as if it were out of gas (I was on E) and it wouldnt fire right up again. So I turned off the computer and amps and called a friend to see if he could bring me some gas. No cans, no money, so I eventually tried starting it again and it worked... and I drove to the next gas station and filled right up. Still had about 5$ gas in it apparantly. Never had that happen before.

[FyreDaug]

Alright, got pics, so.... here

Picture 1: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_45_full.jpg)
The big port with the cap on it, what is it? What should it be hooked up to? And the other little vacuum line with the screw in it (was used before to block a port, and I needed to put it somewhere to keep it, ignore it's looks) what does it do? AFAIK (untested) if the little one has vacuum something happens with the big one....

Picture 2: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_46_full.jpg)
Showing the 2 metioned ports, and another one to the right of the fuel line. What does it do, what does it connect to?

Picture 3: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_47_full.jpg)
Shows how there is only 1 vacuum hooked up to, hooking up 2 vacuums to this makes no difference. Whats the other port for?

Picture 4: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_48_full.jpg)
The cannister thing!

Picture 5: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_49_full.jpg)
The thick line I was telling you about before, the one that looks like its the right size to fit over the big opening on the front of the carb (pic 1) Though its definately not long enough to reach way over there...

Picture 6: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_50_full.jpg)
Vacuum line not hooked up to anything, also, what is the other "vac" line going to the firewall? What the hell is it connected to?

Picture 7: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_51_full.jpg)
The red line shown in pic 5 and 6, entering the carb

Picture 8: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_52_full.jpg)
The inside of the <10000km cap, when used with dual coils.

Picture 9: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_53_full.jpg)
Not the greatest pic of the rotor, but shows its got some scoring in the middle.

Picture 10: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_54_full.jpg)
Dual coils

Picture 11: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_55_full.jpg)
High speed unloader, which 1 port is hooked up to constant vacuum. Havent tested it yet, but I figure it'll let me drop high speed whenever I want, and be able to put it back when I want by WOT'ing the carb briefly (was working last night properly, but it wasnt sitting overnight)

Picture 12: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_56_full.jpg)
Showing how I am using both vacuum advance ports on the dizzy with constant vacuum

Picture 13: (http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/808000-808999/808617_57_full.jpg)
Carb-Engine bay pic

[A20A1]

where is your cardomain page.. the last two pics aren't loading.

why is there a chain around the intake manifold... that isn't the best lift point, could end up breaking or bendning things.

[FyreDaug]

relax, im still uploading them, it takes forever, I posted that while I was uploading.

Last 2 pics arent anything special anyways. Whats the deal with the cannister mostly..

[A20A1]

You need to hook up a vacuum line in order for the charcoal cannister to vent the fumes.

You have two "line-ins"
One is from the fuel tank, the other is from the carburetor. You already plugged the line in from the carburetor which is fine.

The impotant ones are the firewall, which vents fumes from the gas tank, the vacuum line which needs to be hooked up for the valve to open, and the vent line or line-out which sends the fuel vapors to the carb.



So hook up the vacuum line to the intake manifold... you'll be constanyly venting though.

The other way is leave the firewall port open and remove the charcoal cannister.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4531

[FyreDaug]

Ok, well whats the point of the big line in though?
Am I venting at all? Just hooked up the vacuum line to a constant vacuum source, whats that gonna do? Is that my problem?

[A20A1]

also you might need to plug a few vacuum ports to drop the chance of a vacuum leak.

If there was a small vacuum leak and you had adjusted your idle, and float settings with the leak, they could be off slightly.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4532
http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4533

There is an internal vacuum port, you cannot see that feeds vacuum linto the choke puller that is on the top left hand corner of the carb at the front of the carb above the idle diaphragm.

[A20A1]

Ok, well whats the point of the big line in though?
Am I venting at all? Just hooked up the vacuum line to a constant vacuum source, whats that gonna do? Is that my problem?


The big line-in take fumes from the float bowl and puts them in the charcoal cannister.

Yes hook up the vacuum line and you'll be venting fumes as long as the valve has vacuum... which is only when your at idle and part throttle. After that vacuum drops too much or to "0" to be any good.

[FyreDaug]

Then whats the point, its not gonna fix my 5500 problem then. It idles fine anyways... Should I be hooking up the float bowl vent hose to anything? Or is it fine to leave it?

EDIT:
Well insead of double posting again, I figured this works aswell. Problem didnt go away, I bought a couple feet of vac hose and hooked it up, if anything it made cold low-rpm WOT worse making it bog. Also plugged all open fittings

[A20A1]

it takes a while before the bulk of the fumes go away...

And yes you'll run poorly if the fumes are too heavy and saturate the a/F mixture.

The thing is you want to vent the tank... you don't have to vent it directly to the carb. Normally it only vents when the car is first starting up to help start the carb.

[A20A1]

The vacuum line to the right of the fuel line in pic number two is a venturi vacuum port... it picks up venturi vacuum rather then manifold vacuum. The two have different signal strengths depending on the amount of throttle. The venturi vacuum is higher at wot and lower at idle.

My assumption is that, the vacuum was a part of the constant vacuum egr control valve... constant because is uses the vacuum supplied at idle (Manifold Vacuum) and at throttle ( Venturi Vacuum ) that way the EGR valve always has a source of vacuum to operate the valve.

Either that or somehow the two vacuum sources were a way of measuring engine demand and metering out the appropriate levels of gasses. ???

But I figured it would be more dependent on the O2 sensor.


----


Like I said before the float vent can stay plugged... it's plugged from the factory on a few carbs and I've plugged mine with no adverse effects. As long as you have the brass tubes hanging over the carb barrels exposed then the float will vent fine.

[FyreDaug]

Alright then, but Im still having this problem, what else could it be? I know it was directly caused by removing the vacuum lines though, before it would go through 5000-6000 no problems, but now it pulls harder but sputters, so essentially its taking the same amount of time to fly up to 6000. I prefer shifting before 6, not at about 5200 so it doesnt sputter, the next gear usually pulls better if the revs are up higher.

Since the plugs im running are plats Im considering changing them to some copper ones. Any recommendations on brand? I probably shouldnt even bother with iridium anyways. What else could be causing this problem?

[A20A1]

Ngk

[FyreDaug]

is it possible its an ignition problem? Maybe the timing was just bad when I took the vac's off something started to go. Ive got a different dizzy than the car came with though. If I win the blaster on ebay, ill see what difference I can get with a new cap/rotor and wires.

BTW, are there actual sets of wires that'll work? Or can I get em for a b18 or something?

[A20A1]

You mean you haven't replaced your cap or rotor after you posted the pic of the central contact on the cap missing?

I got an accel custom set for a V8, crimped on the ends myself and they worked fine. Just make sure you get plenty of the internal wire exposed to loop under the plug wire contacts.

I have another 4 wires as backup or if I made a mistake on the first set.

The problem with the accel wires is the copper constacts tend to errode/corrode, you can buy some nicer crimp on contacts from MSD and then use them on the accel wires.

[FyreDaug]

No I havent replaced the cap/rotor yet, because obviously the duals are killing it. Thats not even 10000km and it looks like that. So Im gonna wait for my blaster to get here and replace with gen. honda cap/rotor

[FyreDaug]

Alright, here's the update for the day, hopefully something good can come of this.
All 4 plugs are normal, they arent oil soaked or anything. And I believe the gap is still around 0.050 (canadian quarter size)
Heres what I did:

New rotor from my old dizzy, in MUCH better condition than the one I had.
New igniter from a different dizzy cap, I drilled out the hole a little bigger in my cap and fabricated it to fit.

Now what this did was fix part of the problem, it doesnt do the backfire-ing thing that it was doing, where the popping sound of the exhaust was distinct, it just stumbles at that rpm a little. Still noticable though, but its better than it was for sure. It also seems to have better power after it quits stumbling, between the 5500-6000 its got a little more pull to it, not enough powerband to tell though, so maybe im imagining things.

So the conclusion Ive come to is that it IS ignition related, so what Im going to do is buy a Blaster 2, just a single. Some non-stock wires, probably accel, and put the V-Power plugs in I bought today. The plats are still good for now, so I wont run them until I get the blaster.

So one of my questions is: Will a faulty/dying dizzy possibly have the problems I am facing? I know I didnt replace the cap with a new one (yet) but all the other posts are doing fine, just the igniter that needed replacing.

I disconnected 1 coil too, and didnt notice ANY difference, except it bogged a little more if you WOT <1800rpm with the single.

As of right now, Ive got both coils hooked up, both vac advances hooked up (tested before, removing them and plugging them, didnt fix problem), bosch plats at 0.050 ish, stock wires, fairly new rotor and a fixed cap. Still doing it slightly though.:uh: :uh:

EDIT: Would you be interested in selling your backup? I am on the hunt for wires, DEFINATELY not paying local prices, and im having trouble finding fitting ones on ebay

[FyreDaug]

You know what, I take that back, its doing it again, so maybe I burned up the igniter already (new) but I doubt it. Arggg

[A20A1]

The igniter isn't in the cap.

if it is shoot me... please. :)

[FyreDaug]

Then I feel like an ass, lol, whats the name of the ignition to cap piece on the inside? The piece I burned up? I thought it was called ignitor...

Well anyways, any insight to the problem?

[A20A1]

that is just part of the cap... it has a spring to keep constant contact to the rotor... I dunno what it's called. center post maybe I dunno.

the igniter is in/on the distributor.

just replace the cap.

[FyreDaug]

That wont solve the problem, the rest of the cap is good, and the center post is good now. I dunno what else to do...

[FyreDaug]

Damn, still cant figure it out. It cant be a valve problem for a couple reasons, but mainly:
If I let off the throttle slightly and go at about 85% WOT it will NEVER do this.

Maybe its a timing problem? Since its vac advance there would be a little vacuum with it not opened all the way up right? Kinda goes against what I thought before, but is it possible? Should I try advancing more? (Last time I had it at full advance I still recall it doing this)

[FyreDaug]

bump?