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View Full Version : can we use premade turbo manifolds?



newaccorddriver
11-20-2005, 12:06 AM
i know that we can do a little fabrication to make a B16 intake manifold fit our accords, but is there any way to get a premade turbo manifold to work like that for our cars?

SteveDX89
11-20-2005, 08:06 AM
Yes, buy one for an A20. A few companies make one.

A20A1
11-20-2005, 12:37 PM
The closest non A series manifold would be the F23 or 1994 F22 because of the port spacing, the earlier F22 has equal spacing and will not work.

But we do have turbo manifolds made for the A20, and some are tube manifolds instead of log type.

AccordEpicenter
11-20-2005, 01:27 PM
your best off buying the flanges and building one to suit your needs and application, or having someone make you a quality one. A number of members on here have made their own with good results.

gfrg88
11-20-2005, 04:27 PM
But we do have turbo manifolds made for the A20, and some are tube manifolds instead of long type.

can you post the links to all of the places that make manifols for our cars, ive only heard of one place....

bobafett
11-20-2005, 04:33 PM
www.homemadeturbo.com

aaron wier will make you one. BMC racing might too... and good old hotcheeks mihgt, but i dont think he has made an a20 manifold before

newaccorddriver
11-20-2005, 06:32 PM
your best off buying the flanges and building one to suit your needs and application, or having someone make you a quality one. A number of members on here have made their own with good results.

is there a how-to on how to make my own turbo manifold? im very interested in making my own as ill be saving some money as well(which at 17, i must save every bit i can). just curious, would we be using an arc welder or the old fashion flame to put our stuff together?

bobafett
11-20-2005, 07:12 PM
mig or tig welded is ideal

gfrg88
11-20-2005, 07:26 PM
which do you guys will hold up better mig or tig, im new when it comes to welding so i dont know

A20A1
11-20-2005, 07:43 PM
tig will usually have nicer welds but both will be strong if done right.

A20A1
11-20-2005, 07:44 PM
is there a how-to on how to make my own turbo manifold? im very interested in making my own as ill be saving some money as well(which at 17, i must save every bit i can). just curious, would we be using an arc welder or the old fashion flame to put our stuff together?


There are plenty, PLENTY of links on how to make your own manifold in the turbo FAQ
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169

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newaccorddriver
11-20-2005, 09:12 PM
There are plenty, PLENTY of links on how to make your own manifold in the turbo FAQ
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169
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thanks, i never saw this particular turbo faq post yet:uh:

gfrg88
11-20-2005, 09:12 PM
wich one is the easiest to use, tig or mig, ive tried mig before but only once and i was really bad at it, also which one is cheaper

newaccorddriver
11-20-2005, 09:16 PM
tig will usually have nicer welds but both will be strong if done right.


well, i have a little problem, im not sure i can afford a mig or tig welder... will any of the cheapest welders from the site below do the job?

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/browse_product.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6669869&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1132550021792&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517562&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517587&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396669869


not completely sure what the difference between arc welders tigs or migs are, so if you can clarify this stuff for me, please do so

SteveDX89
11-21-2005, 03:19 AM
well, i have a little problem, im not sure i can afford a mig or tig welder... will any of the cheapest welders from the site below do the job?
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/browse_product.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=140847439 6669869&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1132550021792&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517562&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=2534374303517587&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474396669869
not completely sure what the difference between arc welders tigs or migs are, so if you can clarify this stuff for me, please do so

Just buy a manifold. It will be a lot easier for you.

Deadhead
11-21-2005, 06:44 AM
Tig can be very difficult to actually make it nice, we can make custom manifolds at my work, but they charge like 600 bucks for them due to how much time they spend on them.

Mig welding is by far the easiest, and it is less sloppy if you aren't really really good at welding.

Arc welding is fairly difficult, you have to feed the stick with your hand, and it's pretty easy to burn a whole through the piece of metal you are welding.

Also, you can weld stainless steel to stainless steel, and plain steel to steel. it is very difficult to weld different types of metal together and get it right, so watch your materials.

davke
11-21-2005, 12:19 PM
sory, but what does b16 inake manifold better for our cars? i don't hnow yet :)

bobafett
11-21-2005, 01:18 PM
this thread has nothing to do with b16 manifolds.

but, it has shorter, larger runners, and a design to accomodate more top end flow. it will probably hurt low end, but help your upper end powerband. there is probably a lot of engineering that goes into exactly why it does what it does, but the bottom line is, it will make more power than a a20 manifold

b8er
11-21-2005, 03:53 PM
im thinking that if your asking all these questions about welders and welding i dont think you should be building your own manifold, just buy one, your gonna spend more money and time on buying a welder, learning how to weld, buying scrap pieces of metal to practice your welding on, so on and so forth, just buy a manifold, it will save you so much more time and money cause by the sounds of it you really dont know what your doing and i think you will go through with everything build it all up go for a drive and the manifold is gonna crap out cause you cant weld proberly. sorry to sound like a dick or whatever im just being truthfull here, if you think your gonna be using the welder lots and your gonna like welding then go for it , it might pay off for you but by the sounds of it i think your just gonna be spending money you shouldnt.

AccordEpicenter
11-23-2005, 08:02 PM
Borrow the welder, read up on what your doing, take your time etc, practice. Knowing that no one in the world had another manifold like yours: Priceless. But seriously, it was one of the harder parts to make and it break if you do it wrong, but if you do it right, and weld correctly and use good flanges and design well, you can be way ahead in the wallet department. I made mine for under $100, but it took a bit of time. Sure beats paying $500-$1000 for somebody to make them. I have no idea where the faqs were for diy manifolds, check Homemadeturbo.com

w00tw00t111
11-23-2005, 09:14 PM
im thinking that if your asking all these questions about welders and welding i dont think you should be building your own manifold, just buy one, your gonna spend more money and time on buying a welder, learning how to weld, buying scrap pieces of metal to practice your welding on, so on and so forth, just buy a manifold, it will save you so much more time and money cause by the sounds of it you really dont know what your doing and i think you will go through with everything build it all up go for a drive and the manifold is gonna crap out cause you cant weld proberly. sorry to sound like a dick or whatever im just being truthfull here, if you think your gonna be using the welder lots and your gonna like welding then go for it , it might pay off for you but by the sounds of it i think your just gonna be spending money you shouldnt.
Listen to this guy! If you honestly don't know the difference between MIG, TIG, and ARC, as well as Oxy-Ace then you honestly shouldn't mess with it, unless you just are wanting to learn how to weld. And in that case buy a little MIG welder w/ flux inside so you don't have to refill your co2*it is c02 right? I can't remember* tanks but, before attempting any type of mechanical part i.e. a manifold just get a bunch of scrap metal and weld it togeather. Butt welds, 90 degree butt welds, angle welds, and all that jazz. It's a lot of fun and was quite enjoyable for me when I learned it and you might find the same but, if the only reason you're doing it is to save money then just get one made. Just my .02c

b8er
11-23-2005, 10:54 PM
thanks there wootwoot, now i hope i didnt come off as to much of an ass there im not trying to discourage you from learning how to weld cause its an awsome skill to learn and can save you alot of money or stuff but you should really do some reseaching on the web or go buy a welding book before you just sit down and start welding, best advice is to just weld and weld and weld scrap pieces of metal together at differnt angles and try square tubing and round tubing and all of it before you start to make a mani cause i would hate to see if blow up on you once its in the car

newaccorddriver
11-24-2005, 05:14 PM
thanks there wootwoot, now i hope i didnt come off as to much of an ass there im not trying to discourage you from learning how to weld cause its an awsome skill to learn and can save you alot of money or stuff but you should really do some reseaching on the web or go buy a welding book before you just sit down and start welding, best advice is to just weld and weld and weld scrap pieces of metal together at differnt angles and try square tubing and round tubing and all of it before you start to make a mani cause i would hate to see if blow up on you once its in the car

i didnt think you came off as an ass. not at all, you were just pointing me in a direction that would potentially save me money. id like to learn how to weld at some point within my life though so i can fix the rust hole in my car. being only 17 i dont have much money, so i cant really afford to pay $1000(i was quoted this amount) on a manifold... so i figured if i can save a bit of money and make it myself, it might turn out alright. the only thing im wondering about right now is how those welds actually hold themselves together, i might buy an arc welder from home depot or somewhere and weld scrap metal together, then try and snap them apart(not sure if its valid, but its to see how strong its welded together)

newaccorddriver
11-24-2005, 05:16 PM
Borrow the welder, read up on what your doing, take your time etc, practice. Knowing that no one in the world had another manifold like yours: Priceless. But seriously, it was one of the harder parts to make and it break if you do it wrong, but if you do it right, and weld correctly and use good flanges and design well, you can be way ahead in the wallet department. I made mine for under $100, but it took a bit of time. Sure beats paying $500-$1000 for somebody to make them. I have no idea where the faqs were for diy manifolds, check Homemadeturbo.com


i wasnt aware there was a 'correct' way to weld, i figured it would have been something like welding from one side to the other side sorta thing. might have to go buy a book on welding now...

SteveDX89
11-25-2005, 03:03 AM
If you're 17 and have no money, don't turbo your car.

newaccorddriver
11-25-2005, 07:38 AM
If you're 17 and have no money, don't turbo your car.

its not that i dont have any money, im trying to turbo on a budget. ive saved enough for school already and thats locked away, ive got enough for the rest of the pieces required to turbocharge my accord, just missing the manifold

bobafett
11-25-2005, 09:17 AM
whats your plans for fuel management and tuning?

AccordEpicenter
11-25-2005, 09:49 AM
well you have to be careful not to warp your flanges etc. If your welding schedule 40 steel to 1/2" thick flanges you have to get good enough penetration without blowing thru the schedule 40 yet and not warp the flange... It can be tricky if you dont know what your doing

newaccorddriver
11-25-2005, 05:58 PM
whats your plans for fuel management and tuning?


ill be talking with elijah the next time i see him about that, i havent seen his car yet, but ive seen him turbo components

newaccorddriver
11-25-2005, 06:00 PM
well you have to be careful not to warp your flanges etc. If your welding schedule 40 steel to 1/2" thick flanges you have to get good enough penetration without blowing thru the schedule 40 yet and not warp the flange... It can be tricky if you dont know what your doing


im gonna find a book on how to weld soon enough, after that ill be deciding on wether id want to make my own or get someone to make mine... just curious, can an arc welder make manifolds?

A20A1
11-25-2005, 06:20 PM
Get your welding book... if it's any good it will explain how and when it's acceptable to use one type of welding over the other.

Swap_File
11-25-2005, 06:28 PM
I am in the process of building my own TIG welder, using these directions:
http://classicbroncos.com/homemade-welder.shtml (Motor was just sitting around so it was free, alternator was $30 at the junkyard)

Also I am adding on an arc starter so you I don't have to try to scratch start TIG:
http://img173.imageshack.us/img173/9619/arcstarter5ld.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Also I picked up this helmet:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91212
and some MIG welding wire. MIG wire can be used for TIG, but you probably want to take a bunch of it and wind it together to make a bigger stick. With this, your order should be just over $50 and then you can use one of their cool coupons for $5 off and a free item.

Once this is all working with stick welding, I will be picking up a TIG torch and accessory kit from:
www.weldingdepot.com (Something like the WP9) Should be about $50-$60 total, depending on what you want.

Go here for more information:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Welding_Projects/

Edit: The Harbor Freight helmet is ALWAYS on sale, so do not feel pressured to buy it.

AccordEpicenter
11-25-2005, 07:52 PM
ehh i wouldnt reccomend an arc welder to do round pipes etc, it takes a good amount of skill. I used a 135 amp mig (it was a 110v welder too) and fully maxed out it did my schedule 40 to 1/2" thick flanges no problem

Accordtheory
11-25-2005, 11:23 PM
Tig welding is the best way to go. It is difficult to make a good looking weld with a mig. And trying to make a manifold with a torch or stick, yeah right..There are numerous pictures of my old manifold floating around on this site, I did that with a mig out of sch 40 tubing. There is also a lot more to making a manifold than just knowing how to weld. You also have to design it to accomodate thermal expansion. I've learned So much more about this after I made my manifold. There is one thing I would fix on my old manifold to make it better, I would remove a little brace between runner # 4 and 2&3. I thought it would reinforce it, but it instead caused runner # 4 to damage the stud upon thermal expansion. I should probably pm the guy who bought it from me and tell him to cut that little weld. When you make a turbo manifold, you basically have 2 choices on how to deal with thermal expansion. You can either design it to use a 1 piece flange, and design the runners so they won't exert force on the flange in such a way that causes it to warp and pull out the studs, or you can cut the flange between the runners and drill larger stud holes on the outer runners, for a manifold that expands along the length of the flange. A log manifold also does this, that's why the outer holes are usually bigger, and the flange is usually cut between the runners. I don't really like that though, you'll have a harder time keeping the nuts tight on the studs with the small movement of the flanges, even though that is usually how it's done from the factory. I would prefer a manifold with the collector far enough away to allow the runners to be long enough to lose their leverage on the flange, so the flange can remain 1 piece. I think if you have a decent collector, which is important if you crave high hp, the rest of the manifold will be dictated by the placement of that collector.. which is interdependent on the placement of the turbo itself.. That's really a pain on the a20, with very little room in front of the engine, especially if you keep your ac. My manifold actually allowed me to keep the a/c, ps, stock front motor mount, and had a good collector and relatively long runners. It did have a sharp transition into the turbo though, but it wasn't too horrible. I just had problems with the flanges, I cut them too thin, and that one little brace weld caused annoying warpage. So did thermal wrapping, don't Ever do that to a turbo manifold, guaranteed failure..

p.s. yeah, good luck with that tig, swap file..just remember you get what you pay for. I have like $2k in metal working shit, and I still don't have what I really want..

adams86lxi
11-25-2005, 11:27 PM
If you're 17 and have no money, don't turbo your car.


lol, why not? I did lol.

AccordEpicenter
11-27-2005, 09:04 AM
lmao. You can do it on pretty much any budget. It just depends how halfass you wanna get. Accordtheory hit the nail on the head. I got a good collector but i also had to cut into my front beam somewhat to get the clearance for the turbo.