5-speed Transmission Rebuild

[Robs89LXi]

I am currently on my second 5-speed tranny, as the first one finally died after 230K miles. I had the fifth gear rebuilt on it twice during it's life, but it finally would not go into any gear at the end, and so had to be pulled. I replaced it with one from a junkyard, and it has been operating okay, until now. It was always a bit scratchy going into third, but now, it will not allow me to go into reverse at all.

I've searched around for rebuilding threads, but cannot find much technical detail as to how it is done. Is there anyone on here that knows how to rebuild our manual transmissions? If so, please chime in. Things I'd like to know are:

1. What exactly does a typical rebuild consist of?
2. Just how hard is it to do for the weekend mechanic?
3. What parts are usually required, and are there any kits available for this?
4. Is there any machine shop work necessary?

I'd like to see a thread started on this subject that has good technical detail from folks who have done this before. Please don't post here with such comments as "have you checked your fluid level?" or "adjusted your clutch cable?". I'm wanting to go a bit deeper than that, so tranny experts, please post up.

[Robs89LXi]

Closest thing I've found to a rebuild thread, but it was really about the Accord/Integra hybrid. Still had some pretty good detail:
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=5756&highlight=rockwell

Here is the site Andy refered to for parts:
http://www.rsgear.com/BrgKit02.pdf

I've just emailed them to get prices/availability on these kits.

[Robs89LXi]

Hello, anyone out there :)?

Okay, if anyone else is interested, here is the information I got from Rockwell:

Hello Rob,

BK238 List=$169.60, your cost=$97.95US

BK238WS List=$248.20, your cost=$143.34US.

These kits are on our weekly stock order and will should arrive here on Monday. Let me know how we can help you. Have a good Thanksgiving.

Best regards,

Mike

At 02:51 AM 11/21/2005, you wrote:


Hello. Just visited your site, and would like to know how much your kits for the '86-'89 Honda Accords are, and if you have them in stock. The kit numbers are:

BK238 and BK238WS

Thanks.

Andy, if you happen to see this post, please give us a critique of what you thought of those parts you got from them.

[XJRiggs]

I'll chime in here with some of my brief experience on taking one of these transmissions apart. I do believe anyone with a fair amount of mechanical ability should be able to do this. I had the 5th gear problem on my '86 and I decided to give the rebuild a try. I did it all in a single day in my parents garage. Best advice I can give is take lots of pictures, detailed pictures. I didn't have the luxury of a digital camera when I did mine. Pay attention to how each gear is installed and make lots of notes and mark the gears to help you get it back together right. The only mistake I made when I reassembled my tranny was I put the reverse gear in backwards/upside down. unfortunatly I didn't realize it until I was trying to back out of the garage.. DOH!!!! The gear has an off-set I didn't notice. I was able to split the tranny while still in the car, slid the gear off the shaft and put it back together. Oh what fun, but lesson learned. Good luck with that.

[Robs89LXi]

Hey, Riggs, thanks for the note. Yeah, I'm planning to do the same thing. What I need to know though, is what parts are replaced in a typical rebuild? I'm currently searching for "rebuild kits" but I'm not sure what parts I should be looking for. What typically goes out on a manual tranny, and what parts should be routinely changed out if a tranny is torn apart? Any special gaskets, seals etc.? Gears? Synchros?

[AZmike]

Case gaskets, shift shaft boot and seal, and all crush washers I would replace regardlesss of condition. I'd probably replace the mainshaft seal as well. The bearings are usually replaced if you're paying for the job, but from reading psts here over the last few years that seems like an uncommon problem. Some of the bearings require a slide hammer to remove--others are secured by snap rings. If you can find the syncro rings for a resonable price I would replace all of them. The gear sets and shift forks must each be inspected. When you're done replacing parts the shafts should be reshimmed to set the clearances correctly. Although I didn't bother with this step and have made it another 40k without issue. Be sure to follow the proceedure when torquing the main shaft and countershaft end nuts and get a good notch in the locking flange. Good luck.

[Robs89LXi]

Excellent! That is exactly what I wanted to hear. Mike, how hard was all this to do, how long did it take you, and were there any special tools you ended up needing? I have the service manual, and have looked over the tranny rebuild section. Seems pretty straightforward to me, but I know how different it can be once you actually get into it. Any steps that really presented a problem that you can remember?

[AZmike]

I was really pretty half-assed about it. I was replacing my rear main seal and figured while the transmission was off I wanted to replace the leaking shift shaft seal and boot. Of course this required me to completely disassemble the transmission for access. I spent a few days with the transmission apart, but that's only because I wouldn't have time to put it back in until the following weekend. I wouldn't expect it to take more than a day if you had all the parts on hand. The problem is that you won't know exactly what parts you’ll need until you've pulled the case open. I didn’t do a full inspection since it worked well when I dropped it, but nothing looked too bad when it was apart. I reused the case seal since my local dealer didn’t stock one and I wanted the car running again—not a good idea given how cheap this part is.

You’ll need a slide hammer and snap ring pliers if you intend to do the bearings. You may need a bearing puller for the diff bearings—I’m not sure. You need a 30 mm socket for the shaft nuts and 5 mm and 3 mm drifts (or a closely sized substitute) to remove spring pins. Your problems sound severe enough that you may be able to identify all the bad parts without any measurements, but a feeler gauge and a dial caliper allow you to check you a few more things. When reassembling the case there is a shaft that should stick up 12 mm I believe. Be sure it’s seated correctly or you won’t be able to fit both sides back together. The factory manual and the Hayes note this. You will need a torque wrench to correctly reinstall the axle nuts, which should probably be replaced depending on how much the locking flange is damaged during removal. PhydeauX is probably the most knowledgeable, but he doesn’t drop by 3geez very often it seems. Take your time, keep the parts well organized and clean and you should be fine. Depending on what you find you may be better off buying a junkyard tranny—most of the internal components are quite expensive. With a spare you could pick and choose the best parts from both, replacing the wear items and ending up with a good transmission for a reasonable price.

[Robs89LXi]

Thanks again. Yeah, I have the luxury of having a spare, non-working tranny that I had pulled at around 180K miles, so I can use it as a guinea-pig to experiment with. If it ends up not being too bad, I might just rebuild it, then trade out with the one I have right now. I'll have to check on junkyard prices, but they should not be much from the local pick-a-part. I guess getting into it and looking/measuring is what I realy need to do first before I order anything, but I just wanted to know what the usual things were to look for. You've been a big help on this, as there are so few tranny threads on here. I'll be sure to take lot's of pics as I go along, and maybe it will be usefull for someone else in the future.

[PhydeauX]

The rockwell kit was the one I used iirc. I did a full set of bearings gaskets and syncros. I also had to replace my forks since they were worn as well. They are only available from the dealer. Usually if it doesn't like going into gear the forks are to blame. You can tell by looking at them if they are bad. There shouldn't be any grove where they sit in the sliders. The main culpret of this is people who drive with their hand leaning on the shifter. You'll really want a haynes manual for this one. It has a good section on tranny rebuilds. A tip I got from sean when I did mine, don't use the case gasket. It does nothing but leak. Clean the edges of the case really well and seal it with a THIN bead of permatex. While you have it apart replace all the seals. Don't forget to replace the seal and boot on the shift linkage. These can only be replaced by taking the trans completely apart and they are a bitch when they start leaking. AZmike is right about the damn shaft. Its a real pain in the ass to get that thing seated right and have the case slide all the way down. I says this because it was driving me mad untill I found a trick for it. I don't quite remember what it was though. I put it in gear, but I forget which one, made the case go down alot easier. Another trick I learned was how to make 5th gear last much longer. If you look at the end of the case you'll see one hole where the gear oil can pass through to the 5th gear ares and next to it an area where it looks like another hole should have been drilled. The integra and prelude cases have this hole drilled and their fifth gears last alot longer due to better oiling. Get a large drill bit and drill the blank hole out while you have the case off. This should help your 5th last longer. Thats all I can think of off hand, its been a long time since I did this.
andy

[Robs89LXi]

Excellent! Thanks for adding to the thread, Andy. I'll be delving into the spare this week, and will post pics as I go. Stop by and check on this thread if you don't mind, as you might see something that I miss. I think this forum has been lacking in a good transmission rebuild thread, so hopefully this one will help others as well. Thanks again for all your input.

[AZmike]

Any updates?

[Robs89LXi]

LOL. Yeah, I got a spot cleared on my garage table :)! Actually, I've just gotten back from vacation, so I haven't started yet, but I do plan on getting into it my next set of off days which will start this weekend. I'll post pics when I do.