Rust In Radiator , Coolant Sensor Port Missing?

[lackej1971]

Hey Folks, I have a really bad problem with rust in my radiator on my 88 Accord. The dummy that owned it before me really treated this car badly and now I am paying for it. When I do a flush on it, it will rum OK for about 2 weeks and then it starts messing up again. I have bought some Zerex cooling system flush and i am going to also replace the radiator hoses and thermostat after the flush. Is there anything else that i need to do before I start this process. Is the stuff that I am using the best option for my problem?

Thanks, James

[RamThis]

I replaced my radiator completely mine was so rusted up. Next I used the Prestone Coolant System Flush and did it by their directions, and it was still full of rust. Then, I let it run with the petcock opened up to drain and a water hose with an adjustable sprayer stuck in the radiator opening flowing in fresh water at the same rate as it was draining, with the Heater on full heat and the blower on low. I let it run at idle for about an hour like this. Eventually the water coming out of the radiator was nice and clear as the thermostat cycled, I would put a clear jar under the drain to catch some and see how clean the water was every ten minutes or so. After about 45 minutes it was nearly crystal clear, but, for my own satisfaction, I gave it a bit longer just to make sure. Then, I shut the car off, let the radiator itself drain completely, closed the petcock, poured in a bottle of Prestone Rust Protection, and dumped in a bottle of Anti-Freeze until the radiator was full again. Re-started the car and made sure I had burped any air out of the lines, capped it off, and was good to go.

Two months later, I open up the cap, and its super super clean inside, nice and green, not a hint of rust. :rockon:

[lackej1971]

That sounds like a really good outcome. I hope that mine would do this good. I really had no idea that it would take an hour to clean the system like that, but at this point, I'll do whatever it takes.

The weather here has been really crappy all weekend, so I didn't get to work on my car AT ALL! Man I am so mad!
James

[mkymonkey]

i have the same problem! but i replaced the radiator. i did not have a flush done or have done one myself. once my original radiator cracked, i got it replaced and they just topped it off. but when i checked it today...I HAD FUCKING RUST. so i guess i have to do what you did for an hour. except mine will probably take about two lol. thanks for the info

[jman123]

I have done the same methods as RAMTHIS several times.
It is the best you can do without a pressurized flush system.
I highly recommend this method...be sure to replace as many parts as possible in the cooling system at once...this will help reduce the number of spots that rust buildup can linger, plus you won't have to tear into it again anytime soon.

Good luck.

[mkymonkey]

well this is going to be a really big newbie question, but how does rust build up in the radiator? is it from the block? could it be my gaskets? would i have to replace other things besides the coolant system's components? im kinda at a loss here as why my car's radiator has rust. someone told me that sometimes oil from the block comes in through the coolant lines because my head gasket neeeds to be replaced. what color is the coolant when you guys look at yours and you notice rust? mine is kind of a creamy light brown. it actually looks like cofee with creamer

[lackej1971]

Based on the color that you describe, you have oil in your coolant. Yes, that indicates that your heads need to be remachined and the head gaskets need to be replaced. This is not a job for the shadetree mechanic type. It is pretty involved and best left to pros IMHO. Mine was doing the same thing as yours when I bought it and I found a guy that would fix mine for 550.00 US$. There is still a very light oily film in the coolant, but my main problem is the rust.

Call around and see what they charge to fix your car. Otherwise, you will probably always have rust in your system and take it from me, these cars don't tolerate a lot of rust in their coolant.

Good Luck, James

[RamThis]

Rust mainly comes from using straight water in the radiator instead of having the proper 50/50 mix. The main source would be steel parts mated to aluminum surfaces. The diffrerent metals have a different electrical current flow through them, and the water acts as the conductor through both metals, and an oxidizer, which destroys the steel parts first, in most cases. The worst culprit for this I have found is the freeze plugs under the intake manifold. The aluminum intake just rots out these steel freeze plugs in no time. I havent replaced my water pump yet, it seems to be working ok, but, if it has a steel impeller on it, Im sure I'll find that its rusted out badly when I do get around to replacing it.

And as for the amount of rust mine had in it, it was unGodly full of rust. The radiator had a rust sludge in the bottom, the water was so thick with rust it was completely saturated. I think with the flushing I did while working on the engine getting it running, The flushing I did after I got the car running with the Prestone cleaner, then the final hour long cycling of water, I have almost completely ridded my system of it. And with the proper mix of coolant and the Rust Inhibitor added, it should stay gone, hopefully!!!

[russiankid]

like RamThis said, i would recommend just replacing the radiator, because it would be pretty hard to get rust out of the radiator, plus the rust will eventually get into your whole system, because the coolant does cycle through, and some parts of the rust do go with the coolant, and the rust gets stuck to the inner parts of the cooling system, which will lead to over heating, because the system will then be clogged up,so i would replace the radiator

[mkymonkey]

ok, first ill try to flush it like the guy above said... oh well..here comes more work for me yay

[RamThis]

well this is going to be a really big newbie question, but how does rust build up in the radiator? is it from the block? could it be my gaskets? would i have to replace other things besides the coolant system's components? im kinda at a loss here as why my car's radiator has rust. someone told me that sometimes oil from the block comes in through the coolant lines because my head gasket neeeds to be replaced. what color is the coolant when you guys look at yours and you notice rust? mine is kind of a creamy light brown. it actually looks like cofee with creamer

In your case, I would think like said above, you have more than rust problems if your coolant looks like coffee. Does your oil in the crankcase every look a bit milky, almost like a chocolate milkshake? If so, then you most likely have either a cracked head, or a blown head gasket, allowing coolant to invade the engine, and oil to invade your cooling system.

If not, then check your tranny fluid for an odd color like this. If you have neither a cracked head nor blown head gasket, about the only other way I know that oil can get into the coolant system is through the tranny cooler lines inside the radiator. If one has corroded through, its possible to cross contaminate there as well.

Either way, a new radiator would be cheap insurance. All those small passages through there are easily clogged, and much less easily cleaned back out. Its better than overheating and boiling over next summer in traffic somewhere, or having it fail when you really need the car the most... JMHO.

[lackej1971]

Boy, Do I know what "rust sludge" looks like. The idiot that owned my car b4 me used straight water also. He lives next to me and I could just kick his ass for being stupid everytime I see him. Anyway, does anybody have any ideas on how much a new radiator would cost? I think that mine will clean up. When I drain my system and let it run til it's clear, I usually remove the relief valve where the thermostat is and insert a piece of 3/8 clear nylon hose. Then I use the trickle in method with the hose and start the car. You can really see the CHUNKS flowing out of the system and before long, the water is steaming hot. Thats not a bad time to spray off some of the oil that is uder your car on the driveway.
I Did it once like this, but I did not use any really good rust remover before hand. Next time, things will be different. It's also not a bad idea after the system has drained to fill up the area behind the thermostat with A/F using the drain hole also. Just an idea.

James

[RamThis]

I paid $145 for a brand new all aluminum radiator, direct replacement. Of course, I have a friend in the business, that owns a shop and will order me the occasional large part for their cost, and I just pay them and throw in a fiver or something to thank them for their time.
The Radiator I got was a CSF brand, part number J12490872.

[lackej1971]

I don't know if the ones that I looked up are aluminum or not, but they were between 99.00 and 93.00. Maybe they were steel. I was wondering this though and it may be silly: Does it make sense to buy a used radiator in good shape from a salvage yard? What are you guys' opinion on that?

James

[A18A]

i dont get how theres rust stains over the top of my radiator even though its plastic :S

[RamThis]

i dont get how theres rust stains over the top of my radiator even though its plastic :S


The rust isnt from your radiator, its from the block and the steel freeze plugs in your engine. It just gets circulated into the radiator, and when you pop the cap and some runs down the radiator and fan shrouds, it will stain the plastic. It will come off though, with some scrubbing and possibly a good pressure washing.

[lackej1971]

When I bought my car from the "Village Idiot", it had dried rusty water all over the engine bay. What I think is your problem is really that you have blown a head gasket and now the water is getting into the engine bay and being thrown all over the place. That is what happened with mine and it continued until I got the gasket replaced.

James

[Cant Stop]

rusty water all over the engine bay is not necessarily a blown head gasket, the carb pre heater system has several water lines running into the intake that rot out, also there is a thermal valve that can rust out as well so replace all those as they tend to blow one at a time also you could have a leak in the steel pipe that comes out of the water pump to the back of the motor. lots of places to leak also the "freeze" plugs tend to rust out trust me i know just chek out my picture from the address in my signature
i posted removal of the intake and the black box removal as wellpictures that is.

[lackej1971]

I have heard and used the word ThermoValve several times in this forum, but I have to admit that I am not sure I know exactly where they are located. Can anybody help me. I have an A20A1 Engine, 1988 Accord. I'll use the search tool.:)

In my search for it, I discovered that my Temperature Gauge Sending Unit was broken completely off. It now looks like just some sort of screw in plug that really has a hidden purpose. Now I know what that purpose is and I am going to replace it. Oh, the manual also says that it can cause the fuel gauge to mess up as well. Mine has done that for a year!

Can this little thing make a REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE in the way the car runs?

James

[lackej1971]

I just discovered that what appeared to be an access hole just behind my Thermostat is actually the remains of a screw in sensor called the Coolant Temperature Sensor. Well, as fate would have it, I cannot locate the wire that goes to this sensor and I really don't know where it leads to either. My car is an 88 Accord A20A1 engine. If anybody can help me find where this wire is or where it goes, I would appreciate it. May have to buy a new one also, but I have a source for the sensor already. It's $20.99.

T I A, Thanks in Advance, James

[VTEC_Inside]

Just so we are clear, does the temp guage in your instrument cluster guage function.

I believe that is all that sensor feeds.

Problem is that only the fuel injected models had their sensor there. You are in the carbed section of the forum. You mention A20A1, but is you car carbed or injected.

Assuming carbed, it could be that someone had swapped the housing at one point and never bothered with the sensor since the one on the manifold is hooked up anyway.

[POS carb]

The DX/LX (carbureted) has the sensor on the intake manifold, the LXi has it on the thermostat housing. The parts are interchangable so it is possible that a previous owner put that part in.

On my LX I had bypassed the intake manifold water so I stuck my sensor in that spot so that my gauge would still get a reading.

There should also be an air bleed screw up there with a hole in the middle. (10mm or 12mm)

[lackej1971]

My car is a carbed model. That is probably what happened though, somebody made the switch, cuz my temp gauge does work. My gas gauge does not work though and I really need to know why. I'm thinking of dropping my tank to make sure a wire has not come loose unless somebody has an idea what may be the problem.

Guess I'll just leave the temp sensor alone.

James

[VTEC_Inside]

Someone may correct me, but I think you can access the wiring to the fuel tank by removing the rear seat bench. Thats very easy to do. One bolt dead center and then roll the whole thing forward.

[lackej1971]

OH, Yeah, Now I remember. There is an access panel that is held on with like a tar type of stuff and I believe that it is under the drivers side rear floor board. I didn't know this the last time I messed with my car, but I remember now. Thanks for reminding me, because I promise you this much......There are more tubes on top of that tank than you can shake a stick at.

James

[A20A1]

The cast for the thermostat housings are alike, the difference is that some ports are tapped with threads on the EFI motor while the Carb motor leaves the casting as is... the shape of the port is still there but it's blocked off.

[Cant Stop]

ya i moved my thermostat to where one of those emission sensors were next to the bleeder.