160hp a20?

[remo88lxi]

Hey im new here my freind is selling his 88 Accord LXi and I plan on buying it, anyways I was just wondering what it would take to get to the 160hp range with the a20. Otherwise what would be my best option to get into that range? Also hes selling a b20 motor from a civic project would that be of any use in the accord for swaps or parts? Thanks

[SteveDX89]

Well, do you want 160 whp or 160 crank hp? 160 at the crank will be easier to attain with the A20. 160 whp is probably out of reach. Basically, you'll need to rebuild your engine top to bottom with whatever aftermarket parts are available or you can have custom made. Bump the compression up, P&P head and a cam will be where you can gain a good bit of hp. Then you have intakes, exhaust, etc. This is strictly NA. If you turbo or add nitrous, then you can get some nice power. The B20 your buddy has is most likely from a CR-V. That motor is pretty much worthless for your application.

[AccordEpicenter]

160 crank hp or 160 whp? Im at maybe 270 crank hp and 235 ish whp... Its gonna take a low boost setup or some extensive Intake/header/exhaust and maybe intake manifold/aftermarket cam mods to hit 160whp NA without spray. It is doable though. And no, unless you wanna swap to B20b/z (like B18) you dont want your friends engine unless you get a mount kit and have lots of money

[remo88lxi]

So the B20 is worthless. 160 crank hp I suppose. And I dont have a ton of money. I would probably slowly build up the motor so it can be expensive as long as it doesnt have to be bought all at once. That reminds me how much would one of each of these kinds of setups cost?

[shepherd79]

i know for the fact that one member on this board, had his engine up to 140 whp, but that was after he put nice cam, headers with full exhaust and converted to OBD1. I think he may had some extar monds on the top of that.

If you search this board you will find your answers.

One guy in Britan has his engine over 200whp at this moment, but had to cost him preatty penny.

[bobafett]

i know for the fact that one member on this board, had his engine up to 140 whp, but that was after he put nice cam, headers with full exhaust and converted to OBD1. I think he may had some extar monds on the top of that.
If you search this board you will find your answers.
One guy in Britan has his engine over 200whp at this moment, but had to cost him preatty penny.

are you talking about mike and daryl at openloop, and then about rjudgey?

160whp is doable NA, im hoping to be in the 160 whp range, but it cost me a lot, and i have pretty much worked the entire motor from the ground up.

u will have to have headwork to reach 160 crank i bet. even with 'all' of the bolt ons and a cam, you wont be there... cause thats what i have in my car now, and im sure it no where near 160 crank.

i would say either u do a low boost setup or a na build, it still gonna cost 3k minimum, 5+ if you do it right! :D hehe

[remo88lxi]

Thanks alot guys. I just took a look at the dyno results for the openloop car its very impressive. I just hope I can do something like that ill start looking into boost possibly. I never knew the A20 was strong enough to handle boost stock. Thats a rarity among cars today. Ill hang around and try to learn as much as possible and once the project starts ill let you know.

[Strugglebucket]

openloop's car did 140whp with a wild cam, advanced valve timing, and all bolt-ons. that was BEFORE they converted it to obd-1. pretty sure it was without any headwork, too.

[NXRacer]

my buddy had an LXi that supposedly was in the 180 HP range and this was all accoplished by head work n stuff. Depends on what work you have done and the quality of the work that was done.

I'd say with good head work, good cam, upgraded ignition and all that good stuff 160hp wouldnt be too far from reality, but you're not gonna do it with just bolt ons.

[remo88lxi]

Yeah im not too worried about doing some motor work. Hopefully I can find someone here in the Phoenix area with some knowledge on the subject. My Step-dad built a 7 second Kawasaki bike about 10 years ago so mabey some of his knowledge will come in handy.

[w00tw00t111]

rjudgey didn't spend to much on his wicked head but, that's because he did all the work himself. He was pulling low 200's I thought or at least last time I talked to him that's what it was. All NA and I don't think he was running a crazy compression level, if my memory serves me correct. He made his head flow like crazy. Upgraded the intake&exhaust valves...I mean enlarged them and then P&P'd like nobodies buisness. If you were to have it done I'm sure it would cost alot. The intake/exhaust valves alone would be alot of money but, if you stick around here you'll learn quite a bit so Welcome and enjoy your stay! :)

[AccordDX86]

160 at the crank on a 5 speed FWD car, is what, 150 at the wheels? I cant imagine its too much less, you're running into the least resistance there is.

[AccordEpicenter]

thats about 140 to the wheels.... figure at least 12% loss. Bobafett you could build a setup close to mine for med-high boost like im at now for well well well under 3k, son. You could do low boost for prolly well under $1500, but youd have to make some parts youreself.

[bobafett]

yeah i know. but i have a thing against doing things 'too' cheaply. like even though i could run dsm bov and side mount IC, and cheapo turbo, i would buy a decent fmic, an external WG, real bov, and a rebuilt turbo at least. 3k is the lowest you could do it without cutting too many corners.

also, i dont have the ability to weld, or access to a welder, so all of my manifold, charge piping, and new downpipe and exahust are going to be me paying someone else to do it! :(

but yah your right. 1500-3000 is feasable, just dont expect to have alllll the goodies. :) eheh

[AccordEpicenter]

Well lets see...
my oil lines were $80
restrictor $10
Apexi Safc and BTM $225
450cc injectors $60
DSM bov $50
Turbo $160
Flanges/manifold parts $90
Charge pipe/Exhaust pipe U bends etc $135
Silicone couplers/T bolt clamps (top notch stuff) $90
big Clutchnet clutch: $385
Custom Coach FMIC $235
Walbro 255 lph intank $100
Colder plugs $9

What else am i forgetting? Thats $1600.
You could do it for much less though...

Used Intercooler $100
Clutchnet Clutch $385
Colder plugs $9
Couplers/clamps $40
Pipe/bends $90
Manifold stuff $90
Turbo $100
Oil lines $75
restrictor $10
Apexi Safc $140
450cc injectors $60

Thats $1099 and a setup like that could do 7-8 psi easily and run in the 14s if you do it right. After that id reccomend a fuel pump, better managemant or add an MSD btm. Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

[NXRacer]

well, like i always say: Fast, Reliable, Cheap

you can have 2 and only 2 of the 3 when it comes to building cars.

fast and reliable isnt cheap
fast and cheap isnt reliable
reliable and cheap isnt fast

[AccordEpicenter]

Im not entirely sure which ones i have. I havent actually worked on the car that much this year, so im gonna say it wasnt cheap.

[Civvy]

One guy in Britan has his engine over 200whp at this moment, but had to cost him preatty penny.

Ever seen a Dyno from that guy??

Head skim. Header & Exhaust. Cam & sprockets. T.B.& C.A.I. OBD 1 and Nos is proberbly the easiest way.

[AccordEpicenter]

nitrous is harder on parts than turbo is, plus it costs alot more in the long run. You guys also need to take account of how much these parts cost... NA aint cheap at all

[AccordEpicenter]

very true. SI??

[Cant Stop]

$ fixes everything.
i would like to rebuild my beast and have it bored to a even 2000cc then some serious extrude honing done on the head as this polishes and ports? where the hand cant reach they run an abrasive thru the heads and intake and whatever else you want down and it smoothes and polishes the internals god only knows what the cost is,
any one ever build a stroker out of the a20?

[AccordEpicenter]

umm... the a20 is a stroker motor, stock.

[Kabuki]

Yup the A20 has a rather larger stroke. You COULD make it larger, but then you run in to the same kind of problems that the B20 engines have with higher revolutions.

[AccordEpicenter]

dont overbore and dont stroke. You need to b00st, son

[NXRacer]

hasn't somebody dyno'd a boosted a20 and got more tq than hp out of it? show me another honda motor that does that.

[Cant Stop]

are the cylinders that thin that you cant bore it a total of what 5 cc? that is like 1.25cc per cylinder not much in the scheme of things, i did not know we were already "stroker's" so maybe a good balance and blueprint is in order as well as getting these boy's breathing better.
really i dont see why we cant get some serious hp out of our motor's before boosting or turboing

[SteveDX89]

really i dont see why we cant get some serious hp out of our motor's before boosting or turboing

Cause the head doesn't flow for shit. Most of the power comes from the head.

[Justin86]

the boost is your friend. :D If your looking for a basic low boost set up (allready mentioned 1st page) I have one all ready built and I could easy fab up another kit.

[speedpenguin]

could you get one together for maybe 10psi, theoretically?
i'd be willing to pay extra for your trouble

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

160HP out of a A20A a 200 shot of Nos should do it:bowrofl: That if you dont like you A20A that much:kekeke: :rice: Baby

[Justin86]

10 PSI is only a crank of the boost controller away. You fuel and ignition will be a lot more cryitical at 10 then say 6 psi

[AccordEpicenter]

there is a big big power jump from 6psi to 10psi. Ill get some dyno numbers prolly around april or may or it might have to wait until june

[touring 1]

anybody kno anything about the "supposed" two-wtage intake on the 89 LX-i? I just bought a thrashed 88, and am learning about the a20 and the LX-i. Supposedly the 89 two stage intake yields 130 crank HP stock.
If this thing does exist, where would i go to get it, and would it fit the 88? Thanks, fellas.

[speedpenguin]

i'd just get a bigger fuel pump (i've heard i can fit a camaro pump with only minor adaptation and a stronger ignition for 10psi, is there anything else i'd have to do?
i have a target horsepower of 200+
what kind of ECU do you run again?

[AccordEpicenter]

Just get a walbro fuel pump, like a 190lph intank, the 255 is overkill. I run a stock ecu with an SAFC/450cc injectors/msd btm for managemant

[speedpenguin]

Just get a walbro fuel pump, like a 190lph intank, the 255 is overkill. I run a stock ecu with an SAFC/450cc injectors/msd btm for managemant
how much boost are you running?
and is it possible to do 10psi with minimal lag? or should i just get smaller?
little to no lag is more important to me than gobs of power, i want a comfortable ride (more interested in cornering than 1/4 mile)

[AccordEpicenter]

im running 13psi but you could do 10psi with minimum lag if you pick the right turbo

[speedpenguin]

that's what i like to hear!
thanks dude, and more questions will follow as my plans come to fruition.
starting with an engine rebuild and PGM-Fi this winter.
speaking of which, what can i do to beef up the stock internals? i know it's not completely necessary, but for my own peace of mind i'd like to do what i can.
i'm already planning on balancing the crank and getting forged pistons with the same compression ratio as stock. (dropping the compression doesn't seem necessary at 10psi, but feel free to tell me i'm wrong).
is there anything i should be doing with the rods or anything?
btw my plan for the rebuild is aforementioned crank balancing and pistons, port the head, and lighten the flywheel, stick teh engine back in there, and then add boost later (like as much as a year later, since i'll be going into debt on this car over the winter as it is). so my progress is going to be rather sporadic

[Justin86]

I'm running an OBD-1 swap and now looking into megasquirt for a more easy swap for everyonme else. 7psi with a garret T3 with had minimal lag and the wastegate will play a big roll in how quick a turbo will reach full boost so dont go cheap with them.

[AccordEpicenter]

Its a personal decision based on cost and tunability and ease of installation etc... I personally think the easiest stuff to tune costs the most, like say, an AEM EMS. I cant imagine itd be any easier to install than an obd1 coversion however.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah it pretty much IS an obd-1 conversion but instead of using an OBD-1 honda ecu youd be using an AEM ecu

[w00tw00t111]

Not trying to change the subject from the ecu discussion but, I'm about to get my car back from the paint shop *FINALLY* and I'm pretty sure that they have molded the front bumper in with the front fenders so I won't be able to remove the front bumper without cutting it off which is not an option. Is there a way you can add an IC without removing the front bumper? The IC I have right now is much to big so I'll need to buy a new one anyway so size suggestions would be great. I know that some cars tuck them away in the fender wells but, I really would prefer not to do that and running without an IC is not an option either. Thanks for the help as usual guys! :)

[bobafett]

pwn3d! :)

[w00tw00t111]

Yeah, I know. You know what the worst part is? He's had it for 7 freckin' months! (ETA was 3 weeks!) So not only has it taken a freckin' long time but, there's a good chance I won't be able to turbo that sucka. :( ITB here we come! *I guess :(*

[AccordEpicenter]

I hate it when they mold the bumper on like that, it usually cracks there anyway. I really think youre gonna have to get the bumper off to run an FMIC but if you get really creative you might not have to

[w00tw00t111]

Man Jason that's what I was afraid of! I've heard that anywhere over 6psi is getting into dangerous territory if youre not running an intecooler. And 6psi probably wouldn't be worth the hastle of coverting to OBD-1. If I'm unintercooled can I run Alchol/water injection and be able to boost in the 10 pound range safely?*still without OBD-1*

I have a p74 ecu but, honestly I'm just really scared/worried that after buying the f20 dizzy and getting a bracket made that I'm going to completely ruin my engine. I guess I'm just not very confident of my mechanic skills.

This will be a daily driver but, I would like to hit the 200 mark, just like everyone else. Can you remember how much power you had when you were at 6psi?BTW you're running a T3/T4 or just a T3? Mine is a T3/T4.
Thanks a bunch as usual!


You can always mount somewhere else with a different IC.

Sidemount the muhfugga.


I know that some cars tuck them away in the fender wells but, I really would prefer not to do that

[bobafett]

there is always a air to water intercooler setup. :) they are pretty badass from what i hear, and allow for very short IC piping which translates into less turbo lag. probably not an issue with less than 15psi goals, cause u will likely be using a small-ish turbo. but you said u have a t3/t4, what are the specs? i have a monster t3/t4 57 trim. .63/.60 which is probably going to be a laggy setup... so im considering a garret GT28RS disco potato, cause its got dual ball bearings, and is perfect for 300-400 whp, and is perfect for 2.0 motors revving to 7000-8000 rpm. :)

[AccordEpicenter]

water injection might work without an intercooler but it must be tuned correctly and you cant run out of water/alky or it might kaboom. Id say you could run 10psi on alky injection if you tune it good

[w00tw00t111]

Well, I know that water to air IC's don't have to be in direct contact withair like bobafett said. That might be an option just got to make sure I always have plenty of water in the resivoir. It doesn't have to be ice cold right? That just helps for performance sake. Man, I hate it! the molded body kit looks nice but, it's gonna create some major headaches down the road...I can already tell :cries:

[bobafett]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Water-to-Air-Intercooler-Procharger-Turbocharger-IRC_W0QQitemZ8022946217QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/techFAQ.html
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_0084/article.html
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1282963#post1282963

yeah im not talking water injection... just air to water or water to air or whatever its called... intercooling. :)

do a search on mini cooper water to air intercooler upgrades. :)