The fun continues, possible fuel problem?

[VTEC_Inside]

Ok, my car is running pretty good now and just passed the emissions test with flying colors a couple weeks ago.

It has since developed another problem which I believe to be related to the fuel pump, but wanted to bounce it off you guys/gals.

This first happened on Dec 23. I was driving along the highway at about 120kph (for about 15-20min), didn't notice anything strange. I went to accelerate further and NOTHING happened. It just continued at that speed and started to lose speed, I was barely able to maintain 110kph. Luckily my off ramp was about 15s away at that point. So I coast to a stop, stop at the stop sign for maybe 10s and then go to accelerate away. I floor it and it seems fine, no hesistation, just decent WOT response. I took a different way home, steady speed of 100kph, and no problems all the way home.

Today on the same route with warmer ambient temperatures I was cruising along and just wanted to see if it was doing it again after about 10-15min at 120kph. Sure enough, barely enough power to budge over 120kph. I downshifted to 4th and floored it and again next to nothing. I ended up pulling over because I couldn't even really hold 100kph at that point. I stayed on the side of the highway with the car just idling for a couple minutes. The idle was a little weak but it never stalled. I was trying to rev it and I had to floor it to get it over 4000rpms and even then it revved MUCH slower and sputtery. After a couple minutes when some throttle repsonse returned, I floored it and basically crawled back up to 100kph, but at least it was accelerating.

I got off the highway and stopped at a carpool. I left it running (again a little low and sputtery) and went looking for leaks under the hood, I couldn't find any. Its also next to impossible to see the bowl level with the air cleaner on, so....

I'm inclined to supsect the fuel pump is failing. I noticed the car sputtering a bit under light throttle a couple weeks ago, but it went away so I just thought it was shitty gas.

Opinions? Suggestions? As usually much appreciated since outside of this forum NO ONE seems to no anything about this car.

[my86dx4dr]

Yea happened to me and i replaced the fuel pump. fixed it

Mine would only happen on this one hill way out in the middle of no where that i would take to get to my aunts once a month, But i would be goin up this hill and all of a sudden it was like a turbo motor loosing its turbo and sputtering.. after about too months i got it fixed, Btw dont forget to replace the fuel pump gasket..... ahahaha oops

[VTEC_Inside]

I'm going to start with the fuel filters. They haven't been changed in the last 6yrs/160,000kms.... I suspect that there is just enough restriction there to cause the pump to overheat after 15min at 120kph.

[VTEC_Inside]

Picked up a Mr Gasket see through filter tonight for the secondary (under hood) filter $14. Picking up a primary filter from Honda tommorow, $11.

The Mr Gasket filter has got 5/16s fittings. I'm hopping I can fit the factory lines on it, if not I guess I'm returning it.

[VTEC_Inside]

Well the dealer didn't get the primary in, but I went ahead and put my clearview one in under the hood.

Immediately I noticed that the idle was higher and the idle controller was actually working. (It never seemed to move prior). I was overjoyed, my car held a steady idle no matter what I turned on.

I did my highway drive at avg 130kph the whole way (faster than usual) and I didn't have any trouble. Well, not quite no trouble. The idle controller stopped working again leaving me with a lower idle than I had set :(.

I'm wondering if this was again due to higher than normal heat in the pump because the rear filter probably still needs to be changed. ie, the pump speed was reduced.

Oh and it was a bit tight and I had to use a bigger clamp, but the original fuel line to the carb did fit onto the 5/16 fitting. The hose off the hard line fit without ANY trouble.

There was an air bubble trapped in it at first, but it worked its way out after my drive. Part of me suspected the air bubble may have had something to do with the idle controller, but that doesn't make sense.

[keruhas184]

I'm actually having exactly the same problem. The car would simply loose power, stumble and not rev up. After revving it a bit on side of the road the problem may go away for a while.

I'm not sure if its the fuel pump, the fuel filters or a rusty tank that keeps clogging the filters, because they were changed a few weeks ago. I also just did a complete vacuum removal along with replacing the carb -- it solved my idle problems but this fuel problem is still there; so this is not a carb problem.

Guess I'll be taking a look at the filters again. Should I consider changing the pump?

[logic]

I had the exact same symptoms on my '82.... turned out to be a dented fuel tank was restricting the amount of fuel that the pump could suck up. Took 6 months to figure out!!!! That was a real PITA!!!!

[VTEC_Inside]

I'm actually having exactly the same problem. The car would simply loose power, stumble and not rev up. After revving it a bit on side of the road the problem may go away for a while.

I'm not sure if its the fuel pump, the fuel filters or a rusty tank that keeps clogging the filters, because they were changed a few weeks ago. I also just did a complete vacuum removal along with replacing the carb -- it solved my idle problems but this fuel problem is still there; so this is not a carb problem.

Guess I'll be taking a look at the filters again. Should I consider changing the pump?

Well there is a screen inside the tank on the pump siphon. I guess thats a possibility.

I've got my primary filter now from Honda, I just need to find the time to get under and change it.

The throttle controller thing is still bugging me. I'm wondering if that check valve has anything to do with it.

[Soundy]

Well, seeing as the forward fuel filter is the cheapest and easiest thing to replace, that's really the best place to start. I had the same issue years ago with a '73 Toyota Corona; new filter cleared it right up.

Actually, with a carbed car, you'd probably be alright to just slow it down a bit once it starts hesitating - problem is, the fuel isn't refilling the float bowl as fast as the engine is drinking it, but backing off your speed and RPMs a bit should let it catch up after 15s-30s.

[Honda-Master]

pull out the fuel pump and chk the screen if it looks kind of black pump is coming apart replace fuel pump.............also make sure that the hot intake door on the air cleaner is working properly and you are not experiencing carburator icing ...

[keruhas184]

also make sure that the hot intake door on the air cleaner is working properly and you are not experiencing carburator icing ...
OMG you're a genius man. I removed the exhaust manifold shield a while back along with the hot air pipe. This is exactly what's happening to my car: http://www.misterfixit.com/carbice.htm

I was suspicious about the pump/tank issue because float level is full even when the problem occurs. I'm going to replace the heat shield and rig the hot air pipe for the civic intake and let you guys know how it goes. I'll still look at the pump and filters though. Thanks again.

[Cant Stop]

always change filters if you dont know when they were last done sounded like it was starved especially with that air door .

[VTEC_Inside]

UPDATE:
I changed the primary filter about a week ago now. Not that big an ordeal, I just took the drivers side rear tire off in my driveway, made it pretty easy to do.

The bolts that held the container securely had long since rotted away and it was just dangling there. The little wire style clips that hold the lines on were GONE. I could see where they were, but you read correctly, there were no clamps holding the lines to the filter.

I got the lines off and clamped them to the new filter. I had to ziptie the filter into place as I couldn't get the metal canister off the old one. I wrapped the hose going forward in another piece of rubber hose at one point where it looked like it might end up rubbing steel.

I don't think not having the metal canister around it will end up being THAT big a deal. its pretty high up to be hit by anything.

Onto the results. I've driven it pretty hard on the highway the last couple trips and haven't had a problem. The idle seemed to be a little wonky when I got off the highway today, but I'm not sure if its related. Despite the results the fuel pump is probably on its last legs since its likely the original one. Might change it in the summer if I get bored.

[VTEC_Inside]

Ok, I'm ordering a fuel pump tonight. I have been keeping off the highway to stretch it out, but it started bucking lightly today on my other route....

I've begun to question my course of action though. When I feel the car start to act up now, if I floor it, it accelerates pretty normal. If I back off and try to cruise at light throttle again, I get the light sputtering again. I drove my last distance to work today flooring it and coasting, flooring it and coasting... Its confusing me... If it is a fuel problem, why can I still floor it and go?

As usually any advice is appreciated.

[AccordRacing21]

Maybe the VTEC solenoid in your 89 LX Accord is bad.

[VTEC_Inside]

Maybe the VTEC solenoid in your 89 LX Accord is bad.

I can't tell if thats sarcasm or not, but its the stock A20.

[AccordRacing21]

Yeah I was just jokin about your screen name. By the way I did see that you have an RSX Type S as well so I wasn't trying to make fun of you.

[VTEC_Inside]

Yeah I was just jokin about your screen name. By the way I did see that you have an RSX Type S as well so I wasn't trying to make fun of you.

Lol, another one eh. Do you get grief as well for keeping your Accord running while you have the RSX as well?

Flippin' fuel pump is going to cost me $200CAD. I have a brand new(might as well be) car sitting in my driveway and I'm nursing along my '89.. lol...

[VTEC_Inside]

Got my new pump... Dunno why I thought the access panels were under the rear seat... Now I have to pull my f'in sub to get at it :(

I'll update when I get it in there.

[VTEC_Inside]

New pump is in. A little louder than the OEM one I think but then again I never sat there and listened to the OEM one with the access panel open.

I'm too lazy to see if I mentioned it above, but I have a see through fuel filter up front. With the old pump there was always an air bubble over half the volume of it. With the new pump the air bubble is still there after a short drive, but only covers about a tenth of the volume.

The car is noticeably more responsive. It had been kinda choking as I changed gears, now its behaves more normal.

The acid test will be tommorow. There is half a tank in it now and I'm going to take it on the highway to work. If I make it without having it drag to a sluggish halt on the shoulder, look forward to a jump for joy post.

[VTEC_Inside]

Ok, the car does have better driveability now, but I have not solved my problem. I believe that this is actually a different problem that just happened to occur at the same time.

Again today after driving for about 20min, the car started to hesistate at part throttle cruise. If I floored it, it hauls ass with the best of them. Try to cruise and it hesistates again. Clutch in and the idle drops way down low, very weak, but never stalls.

Today I pulled over, checked plug wires at the plugs and the cap, neglected the coil. All seemed well. That took about 3min during which I left it idling. I did fiddle with the EGR a bit, but out of boredom more than anything. When I went to drive off, it was hesitating again as I pulled onto the road so I just floored it and wound it to 5500rpm in 1st-3rd. After that I could cruise again no problem.

Then about 5-6min later it started to act up again. I pulled over, shut the car off for about 3min. When I started it back up, it was fine again.

I've searched here, and will be changing out my PCV valve for the OEM one that was in there for starters..

Beyond that, I'm at a loss as to what I should do next... HELP!!!!

[A20A1]

In the area of your fuel tank; have you done anything to the exhaust, does your exhaust have it's heat sheilding?

Is you Fuel Vapor Cannister / Charcoal Cannister allowing the fumes from the fuel tank to vent?

Is your carb allowing fumes to vent?

Is the gold screen that holds the air filter box to the carb clogged, is the screen squished.

How is your float level?

[VTEC_Inside]

Exhaust shielding is there, albeit rusty as all hell.

How can I check the cannister/carb to see if they are venting properly. The gold screen is fine.

Float level is a little high, basically just below the top "pointer" of the looking glass. I've tried adjusting it a little lower, but that got ugly and I was just happy to get it to stop leaking through the adjusting screw.

I'm not 100% sure, but throughout this ordeal, it seemed as though having the fuel tank better than half/three quarters full minimized my problems.

[VTEC_Inside]

It did it again on the way home. This time I noted that when I would floor it, it seemed noticeably down on power. Again, when I would back off and let it idle, it would putter around under 500rpm, but steady.

Anything over half throttle and it pulled steadily, a bit weak, but steady without any hesitation.

I stopped to get gas, long enough to put in 40L, and when I drove away it was fine again.

I'm banging my head off a wall here trying to figure out what could be happening. What on earth happens after driving for 20min that goes away after 2-3min of being turned off. I started to supsect ignition, but the hesistation isn't as abrupt as I would think if it were missing. It feels as though I'm backing up the gas in little spurts.

I think I'm taking the RSX to work tommorow, the rain has washed away the salt pretty good and I'm fed up with this crap for now.

[VTEC_Inside]

Speculation. There was a good amount of air in the cooling system again. The rad does have a pinhole leak somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it and its not loosing very much coolant through it.

Despite my temp guage showing normal is it possible that a small air pocket could have been causing my problems? I just blew $200 on a fuel pump, looks like I'm buying a rad too... Going to bleed it, top it off and see if it still does it first.

[VTEC_Inside]

Ok, the likelyhood of it being a coolant thing is starting to diminish, there just wasn't enough missing IMO (less than 10ml).

I don't know why I didn't make the connection earlier, but the first time I noticed any hesistation was right around the time that I was etesting the car back in Dec. RIGHT after I changed the PCV valve. I didn't give it any thought then because it was VERY slight and seemed to go away. Then of course I passed the etest and stopped paying any attention.

I will definitely update with my progress.

[VTEC_Inside]

I put the OEM PCV valve back in the car. No comparisson with the cheap Partssource one that was in the car.

I've done 3 highway trips now where the car used to screw up guranteed. Bottom line, I believe I have solved my problem. I will update again as I run through this fuel tank to confirm that it is no longer screwing up.

[FyreDaug]

Yeah check what was listed in the thread, but just a little on the person experiencee part here: I just bought an 87 hatchback that was doing something somewhat similar. I changed the plug wires and plugs and the problem went away. It sounds like its a little stronger too. Intermittant ignition problems ftl

[VTEC_Inside]

Over 430kms on this tank now, showing 3/8s of a tank left. The hesitation has not yet returned.

[FyreDaug]

So it was the pcv then?

[VTEC_Inside]

So it was the pcv then?

At this point it would appear so. Which means it was my own fault for putting the el cheapo one in there in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the OE one on the car in the first place, but I had the new cheapy one laying around and figured what the heck.

Let mine be a lesson to all to spend the extra $1-$2 and get this little bugger from Honda if you need it.

[VTEC_Inside]

Well I'm officially closing the book on this one. Drove it till I only had an eighth of a tank left and not a hint of hesitation.

All is well in carb land again.