Anyone using Bosch oil filter?

[visionguru]

I've been using Bosch 3312 oil filter for a long time. Why? I can only judge from the external appearance, the quality seems better than a cheaper FRAM.
The other day, I went to AutoZone and saw their Valucraft V2808 ($2.19). I'm surprised that the filter is almost identical to Bosch 3312 ($5.99). Even the patent markings printed on the filters are the same. Next time switch to Valucraft?
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/bosch3312-1.jpg

[AccordRacing21]

Wow you guys make me feel guilty. I barely ever change my oil, and if I do I just use the cheapest filter/oil I can find. Really what difference does the brand of the filter and oil really make because I don't even know.

[lostforawhile]

easy you pay a little more for the filter and oil but pay less in engine wear over the long run,remember these are highly precision engines, the engineering and quality that went into these early honda engines is second to none. they built their reputation on these early cars. now tell me why would you put cheap oil and discount filters on it?

[AccordRacing21]

Very good point.

[Strugglebucket]

i just started using k&n. i like how you can use a wrench to remove it.

[Deadhead]

K&N IMO is not a good choice, just like their air filters, they are made for HIGH FLOW, not for really good filtering.

[NXRacer]

K&N Air filters are made for high flow but keep in mind they're also made for high filtering too. Their oil filters are very similar only they're made to filter oil. They make top quality products so i wouldnt think they'd compromise engine life for high oil flow.

I'd think that if the patent numbers are the same, then they use the same filter, just put different brand names on them which is common practice in the autoparts world.

[Deadhead]

That is what I thought until I was talking to my former boss ( i just got laid off) about K%N filters. The shop used to put those in until he found out that they let dust through. So we changed over to AFE filters.

That's what he told me... and generally he knows his stuff being in the business of exhaust and full banks kits and such.

Where was that link that showed several oil filters being torn apart and inspected for quality? I can't remember where I found it.

[Strugglebucket]

dust gives you more hp.

[lostforawhile]

well k&N oil filters are made for race applications,at least the ones i've seen,In a race application oil filter,they are not as concerned about filtering ability as oil flow ability,most race engines are only made to last a few thousand miles before being torn down and rebuilt. in a street driven vechicle you need to be more concerned about filtering ability for longer engine life. you don't run a street engine full out at maxium rpms for long periods.

[Deadhead]

ALRIGHT!!!

http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml

THERE is the link that has some awesome information on oil filters

they tear them apart to see the build quality of each of them.

[Deadhead]

And here's some more information on the manufacturers of each of the filters etc that I got from bobistheoilguy.com

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002456

Fram

Fram Extra Guard (std)
Fram Tough Guard (different media?)
Fram X2 (Silicone ADBV, Fuzzy media)
Fram Extended Guard(same as the X2)
Mileguard (Jiffy)
Honda (although some are alleged to be made by Filtech)
Chrysler line up except for the Cummins
Penzoil
Deffense
Canadian Tire

Champion Labs

Bosch
Car and Driver
Deutsch
Mobil 1
STP
SuperTech
K&N
Valvoline filters
Mighty
Service Champ
Lee
AutoZone Value Craft
Some AC Delco
VW (some)
Warner
Luberfiner
Trust

Wix

Carquest blue
Carquest red
Napa Gold
Napa Silver (lower quality with nitrile ADBV)
Kralinator (in Canada)
ALLIANCE (Freightliner aftermarket)

Purolator (Arvin Meritor)

Purolator premium plus (nitrile adbv)
Purolator Pure One (silicone adbv, different media)
Havoline
Maxlife Valvoline (some)
Group7
Promotive
Powerflow
Quaker State (less media)
Advanced Auto Total Grip. (less media)
Pep Boys Pro Line
MotorCraft
Superflo

Denso

Toyota

Mann+Hummel

Mann
Volvo

Clarcor

Baldwin
Hastings
Amsoil
Casite

[lostforawhile]

I told you the fram was crap,yes they used to leave the filter assembly strings in there,i've cut several of them apart to find the strings left in there. read the part about the bypass valve and the cardboard. know where that cardboard goes when it leaves the filter? guess?Comments:
The Fram filter appears well-made in terms of actual build quality (uniform pleat seperation, consistent glue, etc.). Contrary to The Mini-Mopar site evaluation, neither of the two Fram filters tested here had the "assembly" strings around the filter element, possibly a recent improvement made by Fram. There is a clear indentation where this string was (I presume it was removed prior to final assembly). The filter element is somewhat "fuzzier" than any of the Bosch, STP, or M1 units, though not as much as the Honda (US-made) media. I'm not sure how much this might deteriorate over time. The poor sealing of the plastic bypass would likely result in some continual bypass, and after only a few minutes of playing with the valve I was able to get it to stick open. This bypass design would appear to be very poor. My primary concern with this filter are the cardboard end caps- I would be suspicious that the cardboard would deteriorate over time and may come loose, especially considering that the cardboard is in the way (partially) of the oil flow. I would be particularly concerned about this in a racing environment where higher pressures are common.

[Strugglebucket]

dust gives you more hp.
i didn't really mean that.

the k&n gold i'm sure is not race only. it's rated for 10 microns which is pretty much in line with everybody else.

[lostforawhile]

yea thanks to north texas preludes for that link,everybody should read that!! what an eye opener. don't buy fram or north american or canadian honda filters. it figures you can't get the good honda filters here. they said the bosch stp and mobile one filters look just like the jdm honda filters you can't get here. . ialways knew fram was crap i've know that for years,my 7th grade shop teacher cut one open out of the box,and yes it had the strings in it.

[lostforawhile]

somebody make this link a sticky,this is great info and i'm sure they went through a lot of trouble to do this for fellow honda owners. http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=002456

[lostforawhile]

update on this, last time i checked NTPOG had become such assholes,you can't even browse their site without paying,thats why the link doesn't work. glad we are better then that here. :thumbdn:

[ghettogeddy]

the link worked for me

[lostforawhile]

well it's back up,a while back i tried to go to the link,and it said you couldn't access it from ouside of their site,so i went to their site,and it said you couldn't browse without paying. maby they pissed off enough people.
here is the correct url. i don't know where the oildrop site came from but looks very interesting. here is the NTPOG link http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml

[lostforawhile]

hey check out the home page of the site from the other link http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

[BITESIZE]

A filter is a filter, just change your oil when you are supposed to and drive your car good.

[russiankid]

A filter is a filter, just change your oil when you are supposed to and drive your car good.
Yep. I use a Mobile filter, caused drain backs:thumbdn: . So i went back to Puralator.

[lostforawhile]

A filter is a filter, just change your oil when you are supposed to and drive your car good.i'm really suprised you said that,that sounds like something someone might say who drives a minivan and gets their oil changed at walmart. there is a big difference. thats why for example, fram uses cardboard in their filters and frequently leaves foreign objects in them, also charges a bunch more for the same filter with some kind of goop in it,and uses plastic bypass valves that fail almost the first time you start your engine. look at the construction in the bosch, you don't see that garbage. i've cut them apart before myself,there is a big difference. so the bosch costs a little more,your engine lasts longer too. thats the same reason not to buy save-a-lot motor oil, sure it meets minimum standards, but would you rather have something like your oil meet minimun standars,or far exceed them? i would go with the stp myself,i cut apart one myself,and it looks identical to the bosch inside. it even had the same number stamped into the baseplate. the bosch is just like the factory jdm you can't get here. they probably make it for honda.

[ghettogeddy]

i'm really suprised you said that,that sounds like something someone might say who drives a minivan and gets their oil changed at walmart. there is a big difference. thats why for example, fram uses cardboard in their filters and frequently leaves foreign objects in them, also charges a bunch more for the same filter with some kind of goop in it,and uses plastic bypass valves that fail almost the first time you start your engine. look at the construction in the bosch, you don't see that garbage. i've cut them apart before myself,there is a big difference. so the bosch costs a little more,your engine lasts longer too. thats the same reason not to buy save-a-lot motor oil, sure it meets minimum standards, but would you rather have something like your oil meet minimun standars,or far exceed them? i would go with the stp myself,i cut apart one myself,and it looks identical to the bosch inside. it even had the same number stamped into the baseplate. the bosch is just like the factory jdm you can't get here. they probably make it for honda.
so when my rebuild is done should i get a bosch filter and go synthetic like redline or something

[russiankid]

i'm really suprised you said that,that sounds like something someone might say who drives a minivan and gets their oil changed at walmart. there is a big difference. thats why for example, fram uses cardboard in their filters and frequently leaves foreign objects in them, also charges a bunch more for the same filter with some kind of goop in it,and uses plastic bypass valves that fail almost the first time you start your engine. look at the construction in the bosch, you don't see that garbage. i've cut them apart before myself,there is a big difference. so the bosch costs a little more,your engine lasts longer too. thats the same reason not to buy save-a-lot motor oil, sure it meets minimum standards, but would you rather have something like your oil meet minimun standars,or far exceed them? i would go with the stp myself,i cut apart one myself,and it looks identical to the bosch inside. it even had the same number stamped into the baseplate. the bosch is just like the factory jdm you can't get here. they probably make it for honda.
Have you ever cut open a Puralator filter? If so how well are they designed? That is what i use and i do not notice any problems.

[lostforawhile]

the stp is about three dollars cheaper,and if you stripped the paint off of both,and took them apart,you couldn't tell the difference. bosch makes a lot of filters that are rebadged as other brands, the identical code numbers stamped in the bottom of both base plates tells me the stp is really a bosch under the paint. - if you gonna' shitcan it (listen up CAH) FRAM IT!!!

[A20A1]

Go to the page if it loads save the pages, I had a few sites that would remember your IP I guess and if you went there again it asked you to pay, but the first visit didn't seem to block you.

[lostforawhile]

I think the main reason Fram is so popular,is simply because it's cheaper. there are a lot of uninformed people driving around who don't know the first thing about how their car works, they take advantage of this by saturating the tv with adds about their filters. they might have been good years ago, but engine tolerances were a lot looser, that doesn't fly with anything made from about the mid eighties and up. or anything imported with a high precision engine.

[snoopyloopy]

i have a k&n on the car now. although that was $12. so when i do my oil change (which should've been a grand ago...), i have a purolator pureone filter in the garage with some conventional valvoline just waiting to go in.

[MessyHonda]

i got a Napa gold filter for 7 bucks....its made my wix. Dont flame me but i have a fram on my car....i needed to change the oil that day and thats all that kragen had. when i do my oil pan next week im chaning it.

[lostforawhile]

wanted to bring up an update to this old thread,the company that made bosche filters sold it to someone else, they are now junk like fram, figures, take a good filter and ruin it. the wix/nappa gold are still excellent though

[charliekuney]

How about Pennzoil? That's what I use.

[carotman]

I'm just stocking up on Purolator Pure one S2000 Filters in the States. They're cheap and provide excellent filtering.

[lostforawhile]

I'm just stocking up on Purolator Pure one S2000 Filters in the States. They're cheap and provide excellent filtering.

be careful of the factory filters, in Japan they come from the factory with the really good filters, but if you try to order the JDM filters here, Honda substitutes them for cheap filters. They get everything good in Japan that we don't get here. you can order the JDM filters but they won't be the same thing. I would just stick with Wix/Nappa Gold. Almost everyone I know who is serious about the engines they build runs them.

[Bglad420]

Honda uses Honeywell filters. I'm not going to get into it but they are hands down the best filter for a honda engine.

[lostforawhile]

Honda uses Honeywell filters. I'm not going to get into it but they are hands down the best filter for a honda engine.

honeywell owns fram=new US Honda filters. they are not the same as the old ones, or the same as what comes on the cars factory, I wish I could find the site i saw them cut open, but they don't put the good filters on at the dealer, which makes no sense. they are rebranded filters, honda doesn't make them. they used to use filtec, but not anymore. just use the wix, they are the best ones out there period, someone send me a new Honda one for the USDM market and I'll cut it open on the lathe.

[2ndGenGuy]

In my Miata, I went through a few filters before I found one I really liked. Having an oil pressure gauge, and sensitive hydraulic lifters really helps tell a story. Fram filters seemed good for about the first 500 miles, then my oil pressure would taper off about 20psi, and I'd get nasty lifter noise on startup. I also tried the Tough Guard ones, and some other brand with the same success, then switched to the Wix filters. The Wix would give me good pressure for the full 3000 miles, and same with Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 filters were a little easier to come by, so I pretty much just went between those an Wix. I'm planning on getting a pressure gauge for the hatch to see what the story is there too.

[lostforawhile]

bosch was good then got bought out, the main problem with the frams and clones of the frams, are the cardboard glued in end caps, which disintegrate in hot oil, and the weak antidrain back valve, it's plastic, most of them fail quickly and the oil bypasses the filter for most of it's life. they also have very weak cans, bad threads, and they like to burst under start up oil pressure. the fram cans are like squeezing a coke can, the good filters such as the wix are much stronger. since they are made by honeywell , the new Honda filters are fram inside. they only own one oil filter production facility. what we need is to find a member in Japan who can ship cases of the factory JDM filters here. Totally different filter. it's the same reason, we didn't get digital dashes, and B20's in the Accord here, Honda keeps the best for Japan and other countries. maby around the first of this month, I will try to get a factory filter, a fram, and a wix, and cut them open for pictures.

[DBMaster]

The whole oil filter discussion cracks me up. I have used so many different filters over 21 years I can't even tell you at this point which one might be "better." I also have used a variety of synthetic oils since oil change #1 on this car. I don't guess I could ask for much more out of this engine. I currently use Shell Rotella synthetic 5W40 (Group III) because it slips the least oil past my worn valve guides. My current filter is an online purchased NPN filter. I go 10,000 miles between oil changes - as I have done since about 1994. These days, oil and filters are the least of your problems and should be the least of your worries.

[lostforawhile]

The whole oil filter discussion cracks me up. I have used so many different filters over 21 years I can't even tell you at this point which one might be "better." I also have used a variety of synthetic oils since oil change #1 on this car. I don't guess I could ask for much more out of this engine. I currently use Shell Rotella synthetic 5W40 (Group III) because it slips the least oil past my worn valve guides. My current filter is an online purchased NPN filter. I go 10,000 miles between oil changes - as I have done since about 1994. These days, oil and filters are the least of your problems and should be the least of your worries.
I've cut some of these filters apart before, they are junk inside. two of the most important things to your engine are quality oil and a good filter, there is nothing that affects the life of the engine more then that. why go cheap? a few bucks extra per oil change goes a long way, these are very well engineered precision built engines, that's why they last so long. There are just a few filter makers left in the US, one of them is honeywell which makes a lot of filters branded under different names with the guts of the fram. It's well known that the wix are well made quality filters, Like I said, when I can get a few I'll take them apart to show you what I mean by the quality difference. do you really want a filter that lets pieces of cardboard get into your engine, or bypasses after a short time letting dirty oil circulate?

[lostforawhile]

I forgot to mention, i had a rig made up with a factory oil filter base from a different car, and a pressure gauge for air pressure, by using a regulator and slowly increasing air pressure, you can see when the bypass opens by watching the air pressure gauge. on the fram filters it usually opened around 20 psi, basically all the time on these engines. I'll have to make another one, I do have a remote filter base around here somewhere

[lostforawhile]

The whole oil filter discussion cracks me up. I have used so many different filters over 21 years I can't even tell you at this point which one might be "better." I also have used a variety of synthetic oils since oil change #1 on this car. I don't guess I could ask for much more out of this engine. I currently use Shell Rotella synthetic 5W40 (Group III) because it slips the least oil past my worn valve guides. My current filter is an online purchased NPN filter. I go 10,000 miles between oil changes - as I have done since about 1994. These days, oil and filters are the least of your problems and should be the least of your worries.
are you sure it's not just your valve stem seals? when they go bad on these engines you will go through a bunch of oil. they cook in place then crack and fall off, especially the exhaust ones. I had a terrible smoking problem develop one time, it turned out to be nearly every exhaust stem seal was shot out. fixed them, and never had an issue again, if you know the rope trick, you can replace them on the car without even needing shop air. they have a little clearance, especially when the engine is cold, and the intake stroke can suck oil past the guides if oil has been seeping into them.

[cubert]

Hi, edit button.

Im with DBmaster..i really think the oil/filter should be the least of worries..ive seen plenty of high mile vehicles that run fram filters and cheapo wal mart oil and have no problems. My father just picked up a chevy truck from the original owner (has 190k miles), and all he ever ran was fram filters an cheap oil and the thing runs awesome...alot of this crap is internet hearsay, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

[lostforawhile]

Hi, edit button.

Im with DBmaster..i really think the oil/filter should be the least of worries..ive seen plenty of high mile vehicles that run fram filters and cheapo wal mart oil and have no problems. My father just picked up a chevy truck from the original owner (has 190k miles), and all he ever ran was fram filters an cheap oil and the thing runs awesome...alot of this crap is internet hearsay, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

I wish the NTPOG oil filter comparison thread was still up with the pictures, they took apart a bunch of filters and compared the construction and materials. you can see the difference if you open up these filters. it's all hidden in the can. there are plenty of real world horror stories on the frams, I have some myself. I wish I still had the engine with the ruined bearing due to the piece of fram that clogged an oil passage, I'm not trying to start an argument, like I said, I will cut some cans open and let people see for themselves. a picture is worth more then an argument. The fram are just crap, the reason you see them everywhere is they are cheap, and people don't know better, or care, oil change places love them because they are cheap, and they get more profit.

[cubert]

Its not even worth trying anymore :dunno: ...

[2drSE-i]

I got 10 oil filters for 10 dollars from advance when they switched to the "new" purolators

:wave:

[Bglad420]

Link to the OEM installed JDM filters I use.

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine/honda~filter~oil~15400-PC6-004.html

[Bglad420]

I wish the NTPOG oil filter comparison thread was still up with the pictures, they took apart a bunch of filters and compared the construction and materials. you can see the difference if you open up these filters. it's all hidden in the can. there are plenty of real world horror stories on the frams, I have some myself. I wish I still had the engine with the ruined bearing due to the piece of fram that clogged an oil passage, I'm not trying to start an argument, like I said, I will cut some cans open and let people see for themselves. a picture is worth more then an argument. The fram are just crap, the reason you see them everywhere is they are cheap, and people don't know better, or care, oil change places love them because they are cheap, and they get more profit.


This?? http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml

[lostforawhile]

the pictures are back up, finally!! if anyone thinks there's no difference, enlarge the picture of the fram, then the wix, that bypass valve is what opens if the filter clogs, on the frams they open if the filter isn't clogged, when this happens the oil bypasses the filter, the canadian made Honda filter is just a renamed fram, all USDM dealers only carry that filter now. they even have the same stamping numbers as the fram

[Bglad420]

Like I said above I use the JDM filter TOYO ROKI. Not the Canadian one or USDM.

[Dr_Snooz]

This guy used Fram filters.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/66045-fram-oil-filter-failure/

[lostforawhile]

Like I said above I use the JDM filter TOYO ROKI. Not the Canadian one or USDM.

how are you getting them?

[hammer3rd]

I only use honda filters on my car. I always use oem filters after.I had a few engine noises that got quiet after putting the oem filter back on. And I also had a friend blow up a 94 toyota camary using junk filters without the check valve in them.

[Bglad420]

how are you getting them?

From the link I posted.

[cubert]

This guy used Fram filters.

http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/topic/66045-fram-oil-filter-failure/

These are direct quotes from that thread


i wonder if it just wasn't up to the extra volume that the JUN oil pump was putting out?


I got some more info from insiders in japan that knew the guys that built this motor that it may or may not of had an issue before this with the same bearing it it was just replaced... yea just that one... So it was bound to happen. The ONE thing i learned for sure on a hi dollar motor... unless you built it yourself open it up and check all your tolerances!!!



Was the filter fucked up? Sure. Did the motor fail because of the filter? Who knows. Plus, a cheap filter on a modded turbo motor? Not the greatest example in the world...

[DBMaster]

are you sure it's not just your valve stem seals? when they go bad on these engines you will go through a bunch of oil. they cook in place then crack and fall off, especially the exhaust ones. I had a terrible smoking problem develop one time, it turned out to be nearly every exhaust stem seal was shot out. fixed them, and never had an issue again, if you know the rope trick, you can replace them on the car without even needing shop air. they have a little clearance, especially when the engine is cold, and the intake stroke can suck oil past the guides if oil has been seeping into them.

I guess I am not 100% sure what the oil consumption issue was. If I use a "standard" 10W30 synthetic I can get a little blue smoke out of the tailpipe right at cold startup. When I use the 5W40 Rotella T synthetic I do not get that and I add oil a lot less frequently, maybe every 1,000 miles or so. I have had to add a little oil to this car throughout its entire life, though. The spark plugs stay clean and the inside of the tailpipe looks normal.

I didn't want to leave you thinking I use the cheapest of the cheap filters. NPN is actually an OEM filter manufacturer for Honda. I have also used Mahle, Wix, Purolator, Bosch, Mobil 1, Amsoil, Super Tech (Wal Mart), and yes, Fram.

[DBMaster]

Here's what I have been using lately...

http://www.npnparts.com/oil_filters.html

[Dr_Snooz]

Not the greatest example in the world...

Well, the way I see it is if he had put a decent filter on the car, there would have been no doubt that it wasn't the filter. Now he gets to wonder if his high dollar engine was laid low by the two dollars he saved on a filter.

When I put that crappy rebuilt motor in my car, I had a low oil pressure problem at startup. A cheap Purolator filter made the problem much, much worse. It would take 3x as long for the engine to get to pressure at startup. It would run at 5 psi on the highway vs. 50 psi with a Wix. The oil would drain out of the bearings much faster after shut down. It made an existing problem many times worse.

I had this argument on another board last week and the Fram defenders finally just said, we don't care about facts or evidence, we're gonna keep using Frams. That's usually how these arguments end, but the candor surprised me. It's fine too. If you like Frams, use them up. I hope they work great for you and that you don't end up with another scare story. Just don't try to say you use them because there is no difference or there's no proof or people can't make a compelling case. There are all kinds of reviews on the web where they cut open all the popular filters and show how awful the Frams are. There are plenty of horror stories about how people had seals blow out on the Frams and dump all their oil on the highway as they were racing along. Or how the cardboard disintegrated and destroyed an engine bearing, etc. etc. etc. If you don't find my example satisfying, there are plenty more to choose from.