Horsepower

[onliLX-i]

I know there are some people on this forum with A20's producing at least 200 NA HP at the flywheel. My question is HOW? You can only go so far with I/H/E, Ignition... What is the real key. I know modifications feed of each other but what makes the biggest difference. From 120 to 200 is such a huge jump. Please enlighten me.:eek5:

[gfrg88]

its all in the internals man, pistons, cams, bore, p&p head......and if you can figure out a way to go obd1 tune it too :rockon:

[A20A1]

Increasing Volumetric Efficiency (VE)
Decreasing Rotational Mass (Knife edge crank, lightned flywheel)
Decreasing Frictional Losses (Valve Profile/cut, Head Ports, Oil, Bearings, Seals, Piston Rings)
Decreasing Pumping Losses (Exhaust Cam Profie, Exhaust Valve Timing, Exhaust Valve & Port, Header, Exhaust System)

[onliLX-i]

Damn! Thats a bit complicated. I was told that the SOHC design was very limited. A dude at a tuner shop told me that the SOHC had only a fraction of the gas flow capabilities through the valves as a DOHC. He said that the angled valve positions of DOHC were far superior to the almost straight up and down configuration of a SOHC valve train. Bettet flow in a DOHC. what do you guys think about this? Another thing. Do you really get noticible power from a P&P? And wouldn't it just get dirty again in another fow thousand miles? I am trying to decide what to do next. Can't find a header. Pacesetter doesn't seem any good. And how about a cam? Will it make a difference without a header?

[2drSE-i]

hehehehe no man port and polish means that they take jagged edges out, and widen (to some extent) the ports. it doesnt mean they clean it.....well they do, but only cuz they need to do what their doing.

[onliLX-i]

Oh. I saw an internet how too on that. Think it would be real hard to do on our cars. I mean, a Dremel and some grinding bits snd you're just about set right? How about that cam though?

[bobafett]

something to keep in mind, i think if anyone has done 200 hp NA its rjudgey, and it would probably take a book to explain all that he has done.

i would be willing to put money down that nobody on 3geez has 200hp na. :)

also to make 200hp na, u will have a RADICAL cam, and a relatively useless powerband. :) basically any mod u can do to an engine will need to be done to make these numbers.

[shepherd79]

i have to agree bobafett, even if you get to 200hp at the flywheel (around 170hp at the wheels) you won't have very usefull powerband for everyday driving.

Justanother mike had his accord to 140+hp at the wheels if I remember correctly or it was his brother's accord. I know they gained a lot after converting to OBD1.

[bobafett]

yeah they had like 142 hp i think, with a fairly radical cam and some headwork and slightly raised compression and ported TB, cam gear and header and exhaust i think...

www.openloopmotorsports.com has the info

200hp is just a low boost turbo kit away though!

[Accordtheory]

To achieve that kind of power with good driveability and mpg, you need variable valve timing/lift...aka VTEC

[A20A1]

Damn! Thats a bit complicated. I was told that the SOHC design was very limited. A dude at a tuner shop told me that the SOHC had only a fraction of the gas flow capabilities through the valves as a DOHC. He said that the angled valve positions of DOHC were far superior to the almost straight up and down configuration of a SOHC valve train. Bettet flow in a DOHC. what do you guys think about this? Another thing. Do you really get noticible power from a P&P? And wouldn't it just get dirty again in another fow thousand miles? I am trying to decide what to do next. Can't find a header. Pacesetter doesn't seem any good. And how about a cam? Will it make a difference without a header?

First off you need to show this tuner shop your head... it's not as straight up and down as they make it sound.

Plus we have 3 valves per cylinders, not 2.

Most Domestic heads I've seen their valves straight up and down.

The thing about DOHC is you get independent controll over exhaust and intake, you can retard one cam gear and advance the other.

[onliLX-i]

Couldn't you you just get a custom cam and achieve the same adjustments as having two cans? Since they spin at the same speed and all? I see what you guys are saying about a bad powerband. Have to drive arround town at 4000 rpm all the time right? Last weekend I got to ride in a civic hatch that supposedly had 250 hp with a turbo. I hated the powerband though. From 1000-4000 it felt stock. But as soon as that turbo spooled up the car got a huge "boost" and blasted off all rough and jumping arround with tires spinning like crazy. I really didn't like the lack of smoothness. Fast as hell though!

[shepherd79]

yeah, with radical cam you would have to drive in high Rpm all the time to get to the power band. If you think about it. when you race, you don't use low RPM.

[snoopyloopy]

i think what you're trying to describe would be more than just an adjustable cam. it would be adjustable lobes. that would be the closest that you can get to dohc with a single cam.

[buds302]

now see he had a bad turbo if it spooled that late. im lookin for mine to spol up around 2500 or so. but only push about 7psi. im gonna have a pretty bad ass civic when im done. its gonna be a complete hybrid. on most civics when the word mini me comes in to play..this means there gonna do a head swap with a Vtec head. me on the other hand im gonna do somthin better. my car has a D16A6 im gonna put a D16Z6 head on..it has Vtec... and a D16Y8 intake on.<<better flow. and then run a chipped ECU so i can get the Vtec to kick in. also put the JDM DOHC ZC pistons in the block. they are domed pistons so it will raise the compression. the numbers for compression are lookin to be like 12.5:1 its gonna be interesting. then when i do turbo it im gonna put the A6 pistons back in and run about 8.5:1. big difference them pistons will make. then run my 7psi turbo. and PWN noobs everyday!

[bobafett]

its not a 'bad' turbo if it didnt spool up until 4000rpm...

most people with higher power setups choose to rev higher (hondas normally perform better as rpm increases, especially with d and b series motors). if you wanted to make 300+ whp with a turbo that got good amount of boost by 2500rpm you would probably have a hard time.

just like everything else, you have to comprimise... personally, i want a huge topend, when i boost my car, i dont expect to make any power until 4000-4500 rpm, but thats fine, cause my motor will make it to 8000, and 4500-8000rpm of usable power is PLENTY. also, like shepard said, if u are racing, and ur rpms are below 4000 rpm you dont know what you are doing.

i think it would be more of a hassle to daily drive a high powered car that got boost super early in the power band, it would make rain and low traction driving a chore. :(

[A20A1]

Couldn't you you just get a custom cam and achieve the same adjustments as having two cans? Since they spin at the same speed and all? I see what you guys are saying about a bad powerband. Have to drive arround town at 4000 rpm all the time right? Last weekend I got to ride in a civic hatch that supposedly had 250 hp with a turbo. I hated the powerband though. From 1000-4000 it felt stock. But as soon as that turbo spooled up the car got a huge "boost" and blasted off all rough and jumping arround with tires spinning like crazy. I really didn't like the lack of smoothness. Fast as hell though!


That was my issue with my cam... I made really good power once I got to 4,000 rpm. Prior to that my car was snot. But someone suggested adjuting the centrifical advance in the distributor with lighter springs. I think I did have a timing issue since intake manifold vacuum is in the 10 hg range instead of 26-28 hg with a stock cam. And turning the distributor to compentate wasn't helping.

Also in my case having an auto was kicking me in the butt.

If I had manual trans I could get a lighter flywheel making it easier to get into my powerband.


Please keep the discussion on topic.
You started the thread as an N/A thread... any questions about turbos should be left in the turbo fourm.