1989 Removing alternator

[1989accordaz]

I need to remove my alternator on my 1989 Accord ( carb) Reading the Chilton manual it says to remove the drive shaft.

How have you done it? Any tips and pointers are appreciated, thanks!

Update: THis is what happened originally, thye battery light came on, and I drove it that way for a couple of days, until it wouldn't start. I jump start it and I let the engine run for a few minutes, then the lights would go dim and it would shutdown. I recharged the battery and it would run ok for a few minutes, then the lights dimmed and it shutdown.

[A20A1]

No you don't need to remove the drive shaft.

You could instead remove the braces that connnect the back of the block to the underside of the intake manifold... you pass the Alternator from the belt side of the motor to the area under the black box with all the vacuum lines... you may have to disconnect the charcoal cannister as well and also may have to remove the heater hoses that connect to the firewall.

[1989accordaz]

I could not, even if my life depended on it, get the f**ing alternator out of the car. I could not even remove any hoses. The space is tight and I have no patience. Removing the alternator from it's bracket is easy.

So I ended up removing the drive shaft, is easier for me. I took the alternator to Autozone for testing and it tests OK!:rant:

I need to put the alternator back in the car, recharge the battery, drive it to Autozone for a couple of miles before it shuts down and have the alternator tested in the car.

[A20A1]

Maybe it just the battery.

[1989accordaz]

Could be, I had my battery tested and it tested OK. The Alternator also tested OK. Now I need to take the car so both can get tested while in the car.

My problem now is, the ball joint with the casstle nut at the lower arm. The puller bent the threaded side of the bolt while disconnecting the balljoint from the arm, now the casttle nut will not go in. And I am afraid that I can't drive it like that. Man, I hate it when S**t hits the fan.

You are right it may be my battery.

[A20A1]

you mean the castle nut wont tighten fully?

[1989accordaz]

The casttle nut will not even go on the first two threads, the bolt was slightly bent by the ball joint puller, so the bolt is deformed at the tip, the nut will not go in, at all. Now, I can't drive the car without that nut, the lower arm will pop out is that right?

[vongiese]

If the damaged part of the threads are at the beginning - it may be possible to grind some of it off? or grind/file the bunged up threads down to eliminate the damaged portion. i had the same problem on mine when the puller tried to slip off the stud. it deforemd the end of the threaded portion. I just grinded the last few threads off - worked fine cause the only threads you have to have are below the cotter pin hole anyway.
good luck.

[Soundy]

Damn, that's nasty... I get the alt out of my 87 by pulling it across, working it over the rear engine mount, and out the far side. Takes a little twisting and turning over the mount, but it'll come right out that way.

Other way I've done it is to unbolt the upper left engine mount and jack the engine up, opening up enough room for the alt to slip between the intake manifold and the brake master cylinder.

Taking out the CV shaft is the messiest, nastiest way to do it.

[1989accordaz]

OK, I got the casstle nut on. I bought a hacksaw to cut the bolt right above the holes for the cotter pin, filed it some more and it did go in, all the way. ( after lots of cuzzing of course ) so I lowered the car, drove it to Autozone about a mile away and the battery light did not come on. The charging system was tested and there was something faulty with it.( the battery light came on during the testing ) Can't say what. So the battery and the alternator by themselves tested OK, but together in the car the charging system didn't.

I drove it half a mile to a mechanic and left it there so they can fix it. And in the process replace the lower ball joing that got damaged while poping it out.

I'll keep you posted just in case this happens to you. :burn:

[Soundy]

Sounds a lot like what my car was doing a while back. Problem turned out to be a bad diode pack. Actually these alts are pretty easy and not too expensive to rebuild - new diode pack, regulator and brushes, swap'em in, and you're good to go.

[1989accordaz]

Whre do you get the diode pack, regulator and brushes from?

[Soundy]

Any autoparts place should either carry them or be able to order them in. Check the How To forum (under Engine Electrical) for more threads detailing the specifics.

[carotman]

The diode pack is the most expensive one unfortunately (like 50 bucks I think). The rest is just a couple of $$

[Soundy]

Fortunately the diode pack is fairly easy to test (providing you have a multimeter with diode-test function). Rotor and stator windings are easily tested as well. Brush condition is easy to see. About the only thing you can't really test (as far as I know; I'd love to have a bench-test procedure for it) is the regulator, but if everything else checks out, and it needs to be replaced through process of elimination, it's relatively inexpensive.

[shepherd79]

i don't like autozone. They can't test anything.
I would take it Advance auto parts.

[vongiese]

To test the regulator - won't the load test in-car suffice? i.e. test volts at no load while car is running, then turn on heavy electrical load (fan/headlights) and watch volt meter - it should drop from 14.7 volts momentarily - then jump back up to 14.7 volts. Shows regulator is working...
Can the regulator still be bad and pass this test?

[Soundy]

"BENCH test" I said. If you have the alt out to work on it, having to completely reassemble and put it back in the car (a chore in itself with a 3gee) just to test the regulator is a bit over the top. And it still won't "test" properly if there's an issue somewhere else (car wiring, for example) - the idea is to be able to test each component individually.

[Nice Guy Neil]

Just a note about removing the alternator - I did it just a week or two ago and I found the easiest way, by far, of getting it out is to taking it out of the bracket, disconnect the wires and such, then take out the airbox and remove it through there. Removing the airbox only took like 5 mins, saves lots of time.

[touring 1]

Ditto on the removal process, difficult, but I did have to drop the axle on mine. Never saw these guys' advice on other ways. My alt tested perfect. The tech says its the brushes. So the spin test shows the rotor/armature, diodes test ok, the failure is the worn brushes, and if it is original, pull em out and look. brushes are 5 bucks at napa. Sweet.

[A20A1]

LX-I and LX/DX have different clearance issues when removing the alt.

Cept my LX... I just pull it up by the brake booster... no obstructions. :)

Thank you Weber. :)

[vongiese]

Just a note about removing the alternator - I did it just a week or two ago and I found the easiest way, by far, of getting it out is to taking it out of the bracket, disconnect the wires and such, then take out the airbox and remove it through there. Removing the airbox only took like 5 mins, saves lots of time.

Yeah - like A20A1 already said - LX-i is different than LX or DX. Like you discovererd - LX-i (and SE-i) are easy.:cool:

[A18A]

ahhhh, im glad my car is RHD :D things are much easier, although i still havnt got my alt out as im still waiting for a ride down town 2 get the tools i need

[wprocomp]

LX-I and LX/DX have different clearance issues when removing the alt.

Cept my LX... I just pull it up by the brake booster... no obstructions. :)

Thank you Weber. :)

thank you mikes ala vaccum line removal mine was uber easy :wave:

[1989accordaz]

I swear, I will try every single approach about removing the alt if I need to, after working on it I am ready for the circus as a contortionist, I swear of god.

My bet is the alternator, even though it tested ok by itself, the brushes may be worn out. So I will go with your advice and take the alt out of the car again and look at them brushes.

To all who have remove the alt without removing the axel: :bow:

UPDATE: I just replaced the alternator. Probelm solved. Thanks to all for your advice in helping with the removal of the alternator, but for me, the best way was to remove the axel, pretty easy if you ask me. All you need is a ball-joint puller and an extra hand.

[1989accordaz]

Here we go again, the battery light came on again. :wtf: I had the charging system tested and there is no output from the alternator, which I replaced with a new on a month ago. Now I am gonna check my cables and see if there is something visibly wrong with them.

Any tips and pointers are sure appreciated!

[MessyHonda]

does it have warranty...when i got my watter pump at kragen they gave me lifetime warranty but i lost my receipt...i knoe it sucks....well you should clean the battery posts...my car would not turn on and after i clean them it just started with no problem

[1989accordaz]

I did clean the battery posts and no luck. Hard to believe that my rebuilt alternator lasted only 1 month.

I'll take it out of the car and have it tested I guess.

[sjsjbb]

89 lxi i removed mine 2days ago i got it from auto zone 3/22/06. thay suck but lifetime warrenty. mine worked for awhile. then i would wake up to a dead battery. charge it up adn with in a hour of sitting the battery would be dead. . took alternater out and rplaced and problem was corrected. there was a short in the alternator that would stay open and drain battery. as far as removal i took airfilter box out and had all kind of room to get it out.about 30 min to take out and 30 to put in. auto zone stuff stinks.. clutches and alternators stink.

[1989accordaz]

Yes, I purchased mine at Autozone. What pisses me off is that the only way for me to remove it is to remove the front axel. I can't do it any other way.

UPDATE: I removed the laternator and took it to Autozone, it failed the rectifier test, after just 4 weeks. It killed my battery in the process. But both were under warranty so I got a new battery and alternator.

Once I put everything in the car I will take it back to autozone and have my charging system tested, just to rule out a bad cable.

By the way, removing the front half axel to remove the alternator is not that bad at all. All you need is tie rod puller, sockets and you are set.

[1989accordaz]

OK, new alternator and new battery...I thought it was OK. But I am starting to see the same problem prior to replacing my alternator.

Early this year I got a new stereo, nothing fancy, just a 99 dollar stereo. A month later I noticed that when I would press on the breake the stereo would shut down.:wtf: So now it's doing the same thing, I drove over to the store and on my way back I noticed the stereo completly shuting down when pressing on the breakes and my battery light comes on. It's gone now.

I am afraid that if I drive like this it's gonna kill my alternator again, my gut feeling is that when the stereo was installed, some wire or something was not done right and is shorting out.

But why would the stero shutdown when the break pedal is depressed?

[Soundy]

If your alternator isn't charging, your car will be running off the battery and your voltage will slowly drop. Anything that pulls more power - like stepping on the brake - will cause the voltage to drop more. Below a certain point, some electronics - like your stereo - will shut off.

[1989accordaz]

OK, just to eliminate the possibility of a short somewhere in the stereo installation, I disconnected the stereo. If that batt lights flikers again then I know I have a problem with the charging system, in this case with a new alt and battery then is probably a corroted wire.

UPDATE: I've been driving it for a few days now and no flickering batt light, there is a God after all.

[TechnoGecko]

Argh 1989accordaz, you're cursed! I was just reading this thread last night thinking to myself, "God, taking the alternator out sounds like a real pain in the ass - hope I dont end up doing that...". Sure enough, this morning while driving to the store the battery light comes on.

What was interesting is it was only on for perhaps 5 minutes before I stopped. Ran in to the store, came back out and it was off. I've been driving around all day without any issues and the light has not come back on. I'll probally run it by Checker/Autozone to have the battery and alternator tested anyhow.

But ya, thanks for jinxing me! :)

.. more ironic is I'm in Tucson. Guess there is something in that Tucson air taking out alternators eh?

[1989accordaz]

It's all these nice weather we are having, 80 degree days are confusing the hell out of our 3geez! Not to worry, 100 degree days are coming soon and everything will be back to normal!

Good luck Gecko, hope your alt is not messing up.

[TechnoGecko]

*sigh* Looks like the alternator is dead, light came on and has not gone away. Ran it by Autozone and it is no longer charging the battery, so it looks like I'm in for the same headache as you are.

Someone was saying there was a difference between the clearance in a LX vs LX-i vs DX? Looking for the easiest way to remove the alternator from a DX Hatchback. Thanks in advance...

[TechnoGecko]

Ping:

Anyone know if the alt can be removed without removing the driveshaft in an 88 Hatchback DX? Local shop quoted me $185 parts and labor to replace it, and frankly with as warm as it's getting here in Arizona I'm tempted to just let them do it.

.. also, if its just the regulator, does the entire alt need to be removed from the car, or can you remove the cover while its on the car and replace it? Thanks!

[Soundy]

Ping:
Anyone know if the alt can be removed without removing the driveshaft in an 88 Hatchback DX?

Yes - numerous different methods have been discussed here. On a fuel-injected car, you may be able to slip it out between the intake manifold and the brake booster/master cylinder. On a carb'd car, you can remove the left-side engine mount (make sure to get a jack under it first to take up the weight), then jack the side of the engine up sufficiently to get the clearance. Or you can drop it down and slide it across the crossmember, weasel it out over the rear engine mount, and out the right side - there is one specific angle that it will fit through there, and once you figure that out, I find it's the most efficient method (I do have to unbolt the clip that holds up the wiring bundle at the top of the block at that point).


.. also, if its just the regulator, does the entire alt need to be removed from the car, or can you remove the cover while its on the car and replace it? Thanks!

It can be done; I know, I've done it. I found if I remove the top locking bolt from the alt, and take the belt off, the whole thing can swing right down on its pivot bolt, and leaves a decent amount of room to disassemble the thing and pull out the regulator and diode pack.

[88Accord-DX]

Ping:
Anyone know if the alt can be removed without removing the driveshaft in an 88 Hatchback DX? Local shop quoted me $185 parts and labor to replace it, and frankly with as warm as it's getting here in Arizona I'm tempted to just let them do it.
.. also, if its just the regulator, does the entire alt need to be removed from the car, or can you remove the cover while its on the car and replace it? Thanks!
Do the ol' firewall trick since your carbed.

Edit- Take off the heater control cable/ switch & possible hoses. (not sure on hatchies)

[russiankid]

just a guess maybe a bad ground wire?

[Soundy]

There is no ground wire on the alt, it grounds through its body.

[TechnoGecko]

The alternator is bad for sure, you can smell it cooking and the output is 0. This leads me to believe it is the regulator, but I guess the brushes and/or diodes could be bad as well.

Since someone said you can replace the regulator without replacing the entire thing I might try that and just pickup a regulator from the junkyard. Autozone wants $89 for an alternator, but after hearing how well those work I'll stay away. Considering it took me 6+ hours to replace the damm A/C clutch I'm really not looking forward to doing this.

When you say remove the left engine mount, are you talking about the passenger side or the driver side? Also, anyone in a carb'd have any luck slipping it up against the firewall and out the top? Just want to make sure I have all these questions answered BEFORE I'm under the car! :)

Thanks again.

[Soundy]

The alternator is bad for sure, you can smell it cooking and the output is 0. This leads me to believe it is the regulator, but I guess the brushes and/or diodes could be bad as well.

Hmmm, if you can smell it that badly, I'd tend to suspect a diode or two... depending on exactly what the smell is.


Since someone said you can replace the regulator without replacing the entire thing I might try that and just pickup a regulator from the junkyard.

A *new* regulator shouldn't cost that much... I think it cost me about CDN$25 (Lordco). Brushes ran me $4. Diode pack was around $60 IIRC. First thing to do is to pull them all out and test to see where the problem lies. Diode pack and windings are easy to test; brushes are easy to check with a quick visual inspection. If those all check out fine, the regulator is your likely culprit. Proper troubleshooting in the proper order will save a lot of cost and hassle later (this is the voice of hard-won experience!)



When you say remove the left engine mount, are you talking about the passenger side or the driver side?

Driver's side, assuming a North American car. The one near the alternator.


Also, anyone in a carb'd have any luck slipping it up against the firewall and out the top? Just want to make sure I have all these questions answered BEFORE I'm under the car! :)
Thanks again.

Not out the top... it needs to go across and over the lower-rear engine mount and out the far side, above the starter. To get it over the mount, it needs to flip around so it's going through pulley-first; the two brackets on it are offset from the axis, make sure it's oriented so they're "up" and the forward bracket fits between the block and the mount.

[Whistler225]

erm, if the alternator tested ok, wouldn't that mean the brushes are ok as well? Tell you one thing....if the alternator isn't charging your battery, one very simple thing to check would be the condition of your ground. So many people overlook this. If your battery or alternator ground is loose, dirty, or in bad shape, your battery will die. Pretty easy to check with a voltmeter....simply set it to continuity test (I use the toner), put one probe to the alternator ground, and the other to an actual ground, and see if the tone goes off. Repeat for the battery ground. However, even if you get a tone, I would check and make sure you have good, solid connections to unpainted ground on both.

[Soundy]

He already said the alternator output tested 0.

And again, the alternator grounds through its body - there is no ground wire (in fact, this is universal to most alternators). If it's loose enough to have that poor a contact, it's probably flopping around with no tension on the belt anyway.

[TechnoGecko]

Voltage Regulator, Part# VR773 from Autozone runs $60. They dont sell the brushes or diodes however. A fully rebuild 65 amp unit from Autozone runs $110 according to their site w/ a $55 core.

$20 for the complete alternator from the Junkyard. Might be worth it just to grab one off a car in the yard and use the parts from it. Either way, I gotta pull the old one out first, and then decide what to do.

The whole process of removing it sounds like a real pain in the ass. For those of you who did it, how long did it take you?

[1989accordaz]

I did it the hard way, or the only way that I had the patience to, by removing the front halfaxel. It took me... about 1 1/2 hours to remove it, maybe less. And about the same to put it back. So 4 hours max. ( including a beer break )

Good luck!

[88Accord-DX]

I pulled the alternator out back in 02', didn't have a manual or know about this site. Took me about 30 min. to figure out how to get it up & out through the firewall. I remember taking loose the heater control on the firewall & doing some turning of the alternator to fit through all of it.

Edit- It took me roughly about 3 hours to pull it & put it back in. I had to figure out how to get it out without pulling suspension parts.

[TechnoGecko]

Anyone with access to a Chilton's Labor Guide know what the book time to replace the alternator is? I just got a quote from Midas for $139 to replace the alternator parts and labor. I asked three times if that was parts and labor to make sure, considering most every other quote was $300+.

Not sure how the hell they can do it for $139, but I was just curious what the book labor rate is. If I get it in writing, I'm just going to let them screw with it for $139, and it has a 6 month warranty.

Anyone have access to one? :)

[LiTtLe xOx BitT]

Me and my buddy took one out of a lx with stock carb. All we did was take off the filter and all and remove it through where the master cylinder is, it was i think 2 bolts and then the brake lines. It took about 2 hours from start to finish, its just a pain to figure out which way it has to be turned to get it out.

[StressSolutions]

I know, old thread. Same sort of problem. AFter I drive for a whle, the time is becoming less and less, my alt light will come on, and when I reach my destination, my throttle will be stuck open. Hard to stop when the engine is under full power. If I put it into park, it revs up to about 4k, in gear stopped it is about 2k. 88 LX auto. After it sits for several hours, and cools off, it starts and drives as normal, with no alt light. NO engine racing. Until the light comes on, drives as normal, and for a while after it is on, normal. But, give it 20 minutes of driving with the Alt light on, then it is racing.

What could be holding the throttle open? Any experts think I'll get by with a diode pack and brushes since the alternator works when cool? Thanks!

[Soundy]

It's the electric choke opener that's holding the throttle open - when it's cold, the bimetalic spring inside closes the choke and sets the fast idle; once the car is running, charging current from the alternator also powers that spring and warms it up, thus opening the choke and dialing down the fast idle. When the alternator isn't producing that output, there's nothing to warm up the choke, so it gradually closes again.

You'll PROBABLY find it's only the brushes that are bad, but when you have the alt out to replace them, it's easy enough to test the diode pack as well, and determine if it's a problem BEFORE you buy a new one.

[StressSolutions]

Thanks for the help. I've procured an alternator, I've got things mostly disassembled.
The problem I have is taking off that damper fork...the bolt that connects it to the lower arm won't come out. Will not come out. Won't budge. The nut came off easily. When I turned the bolt it shredded the rubber bushing so now I can see that the steel tube must be stuck to the bolt, thus not allowing it to come out.
I heated it for a whle, burned out some more rubber, didn't help. I can apply a lot more heat, but question that it will do much good.
Anyone else been in this position? Thanks! Mick

[vongiese]

Common problem. apply heat to the collar just long enough to get it hot without heating teh bolt and pound the @#^%# out of it. proly have to buy a new bolt. Do a search for more stories on the stuck damper bolt...

90% of alt probs seem to be bad brushes - easy to replace. And cheap - $4! or the entire brush assembly with holder for $25...

[StressSolutions]

So anyway, I learned a lesson that most of you are probably laughing at me about.

Since we don't have to take the axle clear out, we don't need to remove the damper fork. BTW, the bushing is a press fit, so keep that in mind too.

For future reference, you don't have to take the axle clear out!