Anyone do just a sway bar, not spings? Long thread...

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What I have learned so far is that I do not like stiff springs, but I can't stand body roll. My experience comes from several tire changes and adj struts and multiple spring setups on another car (98 maxima). The tires are probably the best change with little sacrifice in comfort (which I like), but going with stiffer springs immediately burdens you with a less comfortable ride and shorter suspension travel; things I don't like.

So... what I'm thinking of doing with my honda and future cars (all which must have indp susp... maxima handling is soooo bad) is working more on a swaybar and tire setup instead of springs. I'm not that concerned with an ugly wheel gap as I am with cornering and having something that will soak up bumps rather than beat me to death. Let's face it, public roads suck and our daily driving habits are not the auto-X circuits we'd like them to be.

So can anyone comment on just a stiff swaybar setup alone? ..and maybe some bigger wheel setups to complement it? Thanks

[89AccordResto]

Swaybars will stiffen the ride, even without cornering. Yes, they'll help quite a bit without changing your springs, but it does effectively give you a higher spring rate since swaybars are ... well... 'springs'. They're torsional springs, instead of a coiled spring. If one wheel hits a bump, it's goign to have more resistence going up because it'll be trying to lift up the other wheel a little. So.. yeah... seems like a good idea, but it will stiffen your ride. Not sure how noticeable it'd be. I'd suggest trying it out in Gran Turismo. :P

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So.. yeah... seems like a good idea, but it will stiffen your ride. Not sure how noticeable it'd be. I'd suggest trying it out in Gran Turismo. :P

LOL. good idea. : ) Wish I had it to try out.

I'm going to think out loud below, so please bear with me. Give me your opinion(s) if you like. I'm sure others will comment...

I expect sway bars to stiffen the ride some, but doing it on 4 corners with lower/prog springs the changes are very dramatic and it's easier to bottom out. I especially dislike progressive springs and/or tall tire profiles b/c you have multiple rates and never a predictable response. The setup is always compromised in some way. We can get close by choosing an ideal spring rate(s), but I don't believe a strut can properly dampen a spring that has non-linear rate. The rate is always changing, so the strut is always under/over dampening, much more severely than a linear spring would.

My idea of an ideal setup is more like motocross: slightly more travel on a linear spring, supple (but firm enough) suspension, and firm, sticky tires. That's how a performance setup should be designed in my opinion, for any surface. The amount of travel you need depends on the variety of surface and speeds. I drive like a freak on all surfaces so I like a spring/shock with more travel so I don't frequently bottom out. A linear spring will smooth out a surface much better than a progressive spring because a progressive spring: 1. has less travel, 2. always responds differently across a much smaller margin of surface variation or speeds.

While a sway bar is not really a chassis component it SEEMS to better integrate the unsprung components to the car because it allows more fine tuning. That's what I'm trying to learn about. And I dont' know anyone who likes body roll. I know there is an ideal balance for each car with roll/compliance, etc, but more often than not you pay dearly for all that research and equipment. With so many parts available, I don't see why there's a need to compromise with less than great handling, which is why I am reading about this stuff everyday.

I believe we see so many people only talking about tires/wheels/springs because they are place as much importance on aethetics as they do handling. Personally, I'm here for the handling. Looks come second. An ugly wheel gap may be necessary to get the most out of the handling unfortunately. On the other hand, it seems to me that 4/5 people settle on bad handling for a sporty wheel gap. Among the thousands of 2-4" drop coilovers on ebay, there is only a fraction of decent struts or other suspension components. That is a shame.

I haven't been here in a while, but I did the maxima thing for several years and I don't see how people can speak so highly of that car. The inherent handling is acceptable, but poor compared to the output of the engine. You could make it better, but it's still not as good as my 87 DX Accord on most surfaces. Unless you drag race, there are probably some good points in this thread. Straight line speed is pretty boring to me though...

Anyway, just my rant. Now for the flames... lol.

[89AccordResto]

An ugly wheel gap may be necessary to get the most out of the handling unfortunately. On the other hand, it seems to me that 4/5 people settle on bad handling for a sporty wheel gap.

...

This could be the beginning of a wonderful friendship. I've got your back if anyone flames you for speaking the truth.

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Hey, I appreciate it! : )

I'm sure it's all been said before. I got lost in there somewhere, but the point really is that I think it's possible to get more out of the car w/o a drop. I found some good links last night on sway bars (this site), so that's what I'm looking to do. Fortunately for me, wheels/tires and a front and RSB may be all I need for the handling I want.

It actually makes me angry that I listened to so much garbage from other people who didn't know what they were talking about when it comes to suspension (not here). I got a good brainwashing from a Mustang fanatic once, who knows dick about handling in the first place. Granted, his car can probably do high tens - supercharged with everything on it but a stroker bottom end. Bet I could whip him on a road course though with a *hot* miata, lol.

Reading and trying different stuff has been fun. I'm sure down the road I will be wrong about other things I have said, but I guess I'm just trying to warn people and vent about drops/springs when so many other options would be better and cheaper to get good handling. Yes, the wheel gap is ugly and it annoys me but it's not my priority.

What I should have compared my "ideal" setup to is Rally instead of motocross. 2 wheels are another story... The idea is to not loose speed in the turns and have the wheels on the ground as often as possible.

[cardoc33]

Just got your email, came here and found your post. Wouldn't you know it? I just threw it in the scap metal truck last week!
The French take similar approach to suspension, long travel+softer springs=better handling. My Dad's Peugot 504
was like that.
Sway bars WILL NOT stiffen the car. They do not add to the spring rate. They will increase WHEEL rate, big differance. Simply put, as the car body rolls to one side, the other side is pulled down.
If you drive in dirt or rutted roads, stick with stock springs and stock replacement shocks(HP, GR2...), and big sway bars front and rear.
If not, you may want to check out this...
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49846

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Great timing, huh? I'll find one eventually...
I drove a car around last week after slightly loosening the FSB and the feeling was nasty. I can imagine the bushings are shot on my accord b/c that's how it drives. I'm thinking I'll only add the LX RSB and put P/U bushings in the F and R and I have GR2's on the way. Rear struts have already been done.

I just do not like being lower and stiffer. I hate that for daily, spirited driving. Good luck w/ your setup. I used Illuminas and tried several sets of spring on my other car, a maxima, and lived it 80% of the time. The other 20 was rough and I bottomed out every few days, which wasn't a good feeling. There just isn't enough travel for me since I like to take all roads, even rough, very fast.

[cardoc33]

Well, I have put my 3G aside for right now, I bought a 93 Integra from a customer for $600.00. Super clean interior and exterior, 200k miles. I installed Illuminas, H&R sports and a ST rear bar. Not too stiff, not too low. I used to autocross alot, so this is what I like.
Check out Suspension Restoration.com(?), they have all the poly bushings you need at very reasonable prices.

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That's a good price and a good car. I liked my Illuminas and H&R's over anything else I could have used in the maxima, but I just didn't like how it drove. I'm sure other cars and applications will out perform the 4th gen since it's not an ideal car for suspension tuning. (I will never buy another car with rear beam suspension.) If I just did Auto-X with it that would have been fine though.

Thanks for the link. I will check them out.