Spacer for performance

[HondaBoy]

ok, so pretty much i've got my problems worked out on my carb. i'm still probably going to have to tune it some more but oh well. A20A1 gave me the idea pretty much to do a spacer a long while back. when i had taken the carb apart i saw the efe plate and thought it would make a good spacer. as i do have an extra efe plate, i think that would make an excelent carb spacer. i'm going to "punch out" the efe screen on both and stack them like A20A1 suggested. now, the problem is that the stock manifold studs arent but long enough just for the carb as it is. so that means i need longer studs. i've figured about 70mm long will do well. i went and found that Ace hardware has what i need. they have manifold studs for just what i'm doing, but the one i need is SAE, not metric. i thought i'd get a tap and make the threaded holes larger. i believe the ones i saw that were long enough were a 3/8 diameter, which noticeably larger than the 8mm thats in there right now. i dont know how this is going to work. i could get a tap and make the holes larger, but then drilling the holes out that the stud goes through on the carb and efe plate make be tricky because i need to do them precisely centered. any suggestions on what would be the best to do? i'm thinking put everything on a drill press to drill them out and hope for the best. anyways, tell me anything you might know that'd make this stuff easier. i was planning on doing it this weekend.







A spacer can help low end if there is some mixture problems but usually an increase in plenum volume moves torque upwards in the RPM.

So really a spacer is for higher rpm. Also with added plenum volume the carb signal is weakned requiring larger jets that offer less resistance and need little vaccum to pull the fuel out.

[ghettogeddy]

well i def wanna know what kind of gains are in the spacer idea

[MessyHonda]

takes some pics...we might also do it

[89AccordResto]

Bolt them together with 3 bolts and 3 nuts. Then drill out the 4th hole. Then keep moving hte bolts. That way it'll be centered.

[A20A1]

Napa sells the right mm bolt size for our manifold.

[HondaBoy]

yeah, i'll have to go check napa on monday since they're closed tomorrow here. if i can stay with an 8mm stud and get one thats 70mm in length that'd be great. but i havent had luck anywhere that has 8mm studs that are that long. and yeah, i'll definately show pix and tell y'all exactly what i do. hopefully it'll be some slight increase in torque. i know on other cars doing a spacer helps some if not a noticeable bit. if i dont tap the manifold to make the holes bigger or find a correct size stud, i may just make one with a die that's 8mm. i think i may just do that. whatever i do, i'll make sure to post it up.

[shepherd79]

Actually, if you do that, your carb will hit the hood.
what you can do is take the carb apart, there will be small spacer in the middle of the carb. it is a plastic piece. you can put 2 or 3 of them together and put the carb together.

[A20A1]

Yeah the spacer I refered to in previous threads ( http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17102 ) are usually the one between the carb main body and the throttle plates... it moves the booster venturi away from the throttle plates helping mixture distribution.
I only managed to fit 2 waffers in there, 3 and you need to change the bolts that run up thru the base of the carb. I dunno how we got to the EFE plate but it will have a simmilar effect.

[HondaBoy]

i was refering to this one pictured below that was custom made. but i still want to use the stock air box. it will fit with the doubled up efe plates, i tested it out kinda. the brown plastic thingy under the carb's throttle with the screen in it. that's what i'm going to be using. oh and i'm still using the kehin, not another carb.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/7/web/319000-319999/319268_76_full.jpg

[HondaBoy]

hey i noticed i have some 8mm bolts that are about the length i need. dont know if this would really work well, but i thought to cut the head off the bolt and use something like that. the thread count seems to be the same. i want to start on it but i'm afraid to fubar anything.

[A20A1]

why not use the bolt as is? if it's too tall some washers can help.

[Cant Stop]

oohh i just got a smithy the other day let me know what kind of performance you get and i will try to make an aluminum spacer and test it out.
by the way are there any after market air cleaners for our cars i want to remove the stock one and use a k&n with mine.

[HondaBoy]

ah, well the thread spacing isnt the same on the bolts i have as the threads are on the manifold. oh well, when i get a chance i can go look around again for the right thing. i looked at nearly every auto parts and hard ware store in town the other day for the correct threaded studs or bolts. nobody carries anything that was long enough in a correct thread which was dissappointing. no all thread or anything! what the hell is with all thread only comming in SAE diameters and not metric also? i'm going to look at the places that specifically carry bolt and nuts of all sizes. anyway, i think the threads are 1.25 per inch, i took one of the carb stud nuts off and thats what it came out to on the test fit thing. but no, they wouldnt happen to have the right size anything for it.

[A20A1]

That doesn't seem right, I go to city mill and to Napa and they always have bolts long enough and in the right metric diameter.

[FyreDaug]

in for results. Sinec my ram air keeps hitting the roof and the engine movement knocks it off, Im thinking spacer plus K&N round filter with a hacked up airbox

edit: short ram

[A20A1]

Hole in hood :) plus foam filter to breath from 64,800 degreeseseses.

[HondaBoy]

so, hot rod style? sounds good.

[Cant Stop]

so did anyone get the right length studs/bolts?
if not give me the length in inches and the metric thread requirements 8-32 thread?
i have a mill/lathe so ia m going to get some stainless steel stock and make some.

[HondaBoy]

now i forget what the carb to manifold studs were sized. but anyway, i've looked at what else i can do. as you can see in the pix, i show the spacer/insulator thing that goes between the throttal plate and upper part of the carbs bores. now, i was thinking, would doubling those up make a difference at all. i was either going to do this with new gaskets put in place or mold the two insulators from my carb onto this one to make one that is slightly taller. only things i worried about were the air jet holes, i'm guessing thats what they are. anyway, theres another idea. the brass screws that go from the throttal plate to the carb are long enough that a bit more length of a spacer wont require new screws. check the pix out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC04905.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC04904.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC04903.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC04902.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/HondaBoySi87/DSC04901.jpg

[A20A1]

lol

thats what me and shep were telling you to do... those are the waffers.

I had the how to on that already.

you can only really fit two with the stock bolts.

[HondaBoy]

ok, so this will work eh? two of those in place of one using the correct gasket? thats what i was going to try out but didnt know if id really benefit from it.

oh i see what y'all were saying now. but i hadnt even noticed that till now. i was first talking about the bottom piece where the efe plate was. but the waffers will be much easier and all.

[shepherd79]

LOL, on my old car this moda was on my #2 list.
it is easy to do.

[HondaBoy]

damn, forgot to ask if instead of the original rubber gasket and paper gaskets that will need to be replaced, would it be ok to use a bit of gasket maker? i'd like to get it done tonight maybe.

[HondaBoy]

so, is it ok to use a gasket maker instead of the original one piece rubber gasket that goes in the few spots there? or would that mess things up? i wanted to get it done today.

[A20A1]

hrm.. well there are some holes in there that you may not want to plug... though I think one was for the choke opener diaphragms internal vacuum connection. If you don't use the choke opener anymore then just plug it... though plug it well so that the gasket doesn't break off in chunks and gets sucked into the motor.

[HondaBoy]

hmm, so rtv gasket maker stuff will work just fine then? these gaskets arent too old. i'll see what i can do then.

[HondaBoy]

hey, since i'm having trouble finding the correct gasket, would some of that "cut to size" type gasket you find at auto parts stores work in place of this rubber piece. like make it just the correct size and all with the smaller holes drilled through. just a thought. also, i still havent found any gasket maker that says its ok to use with gasoline.

[A20A1]

well you can always use epoxy to glue two waffers together with old gaskets and then epoxy the other outer old gasket into the wafer and reassemble the carb before everything dries.

You wont need to dissasemble it if you do it right so don't worry about it.


get a small drill bit with the HEX base to it, and then get a drill bit extention arm with the hex socket to hold the drill bit... turn the drill bit by hand to clean out any vacuum/air passages

[HondaBoy]

ah, sounds good. about how long will expoxy take to cure? if i'm going to do it i want it done in like a day so i dont have the car off the road for more than a day or so.

[A20A1]

I'd say a few hours but you can probably work it in 30 mins... I mean drill it.

Then let it settle for the rest of the day installed on the car.

[HondaBoy]

i was talking to my auto body instructor. he knows carbs and all. so anyway, he said he would give me some gasket sheet stuff to use instead of the rubber gasket. said he's done things like this before and it works well.

[A20A1]

it's the increased distance between the booster venturi and throttle plate that is helping.

[HondaBoy]

so this isnt a worthless mod? i was hoping that it was going to be something that actually makes a difference.

[EX-ileAccord]

Is this the same Idea as a throtle body spacer?

[A20A1]

No, since fuel doesn't have to flow past the throttle plate on EFI