PDA

View Full Version : oil driven turbo?



Vector
04-05-2006, 08:47 AM
i seen a old thread on there where someone mentions an oil driven turbo, so what about somthing thats hydraulic, like using the ps pump to turn somthing.
there is massive psi behind that puppy. what are ye thoughts.

Deadhead
04-05-2006, 09:26 AM
That certainly would be interesting, but keep in mind that rubber seals tend to be specific to what kind of material they are in contact with. It will break down, enlarge.... all sorts of wierd things can happen.

I don't think it would be the smartest idea IMHO, but it's definatly an interesting thought.... anybody else have thoughts on this that is smarter than me? lol

Vector
04-05-2006, 11:02 AM
well as far as i know the power steering in alot of these cars get used aloot and never have to be maintained as far as i know, just check the fluid, i could be wrong but i never had to anyway.

Swap_File
04-05-2006, 01:45 PM
Are you sure the person did not mean oil cooled? I have never heard of a turbo being spun by hydraulic pressure alone.

He may have been saying that he had specifically an oil cooled turbo, versus some other turbos which are cooled by both oil and water.

You could maybe have a pump driven by the engine make hydraulic pressure to drive another hydraulic motor which would turn a supercharger. It could work, but would probably be a lot of work. And you would lose energy in the pump and hydraulic motor.

I once had a crazy idea of using hydralic pressure to drive back wheels (like hydrostatic drive in some lawnmowers and tractors), but I do not believe it would be efficient beyond 30-40MPH.

Vector
04-05-2006, 05:21 PM
No i didnt misread anything, i was just thinking after seeing the oil driven turbo thead, that if it would be posible to make one that runs off the ps pump or a diferent hydralic motor.

I figure the ps pump because it already has to work to turn the wheels, so for people who dont want power steering, to give it a new task, running a sc/turbo :)

Gives me somthing to think about, im probably crazy to even think about it. lol

bobafett
04-05-2006, 05:44 PM
im probably crazy to even think about it. lol
:cheers: :welcome:

Vector
04-05-2006, 07:29 PM
:cheers: heheeheh yea i need some of those to go with some of my crazy ideas, cuz then they would never happen, in turn i live longer

bobafett
04-05-2006, 08:42 PM
rofl at least you are a good sport about it! hehe

AccordEpicenter
04-06-2006, 06:16 AM
maybe a crazy idea, but at least your thinking, thats good

smufguy
04-06-2006, 06:44 AM
No i didnt misread anything, i was just thinking after seeing the oil driven turbo thead, that if it would be posible to make one that runs off the ps pump or a diferent hydralic motor.
I figure the ps pump because it already has to work to turn the wheels, so for people who dont want power steering, to give it a new task, running a sc/turbo :)
Gives me somthing to think about, im probably crazy to even think about it. lol
\
the closest one is an air driven pneumatic turbo. Works off of a compressed air chamber. Not really ideal. but its something made to work. It all comes down not to the ability to work, but the efficiency of the product and the long time profit of it. for now, ill stick with the conventional turbo design.

A20A1
04-07-2006, 04:29 PM
Alfa Romeo used an oil driven turbo.

b8er
04-07-2006, 06:58 PM
well i dont know if using the ps pump would work, when you said it would be easy to use since some ppl run without ps but the only reason i would unhook ps is to gain some free power, without the motor having to turn the pump you would then gain "free power" but if i unhook it just to hook it back up for a turbo it seems kinda pointless to unhook it , well for me anyways. i guess if you were to add another ps pump, that might be better

Accordtheory
04-07-2006, 07:41 PM
To optimize the efficiency of the power transfer, the hydraulic pressure would have to be very high with very low volume, and the hydraulic motor itself would be geared at a high ratio to the shaft of the compressor. The advantage to this would be instantaneous, controllable boost at virtually any rpm. I believe it is likely these will become commonplace in the future.

2 more points: 1, the pulley drive system for the p/s pump cannot transmit the kind of power required for this setup, and 2, the centrifugal compressor would have to be properly sized to the application, so you wouldn't surge it at low engine speed. You don't run into this problem with a big turbo on a little engine because you also have a big turbine that doesn't spin the compressor fast enough at low engine speed to surge it. The hydraulic pump could spin the compressor as fast at 1500rpm as the turbine wheel could at 4500.

Vector
04-07-2006, 09:11 PM
oh well, was an interesting idea. thanks for shooting it down.

lol :)

A20A1
04-08-2006, 12:13 AM
It was a Centrifugal supercharger.


"Then, in the mid 60's, Alfa Romeo built the GTA-SA Alfa GTA-SA engine with Hydroblower. The twin centrifugal superchargers are driven by a variable displacement hydraulic pump.

Photo courtesy of Don Black with twin centrifugal superchargers driven by hydraulic motors. It used an engine-driven variable displacement pump to maintain compressor speed. Using pressurized carburetors for fuel management, and water injection as a detonation suppressant, it produced 250 Hp at 7500 RPM from the 1570cc twin plug GTA engine.
Positive displacement superchargers make boost throughout the entire range and there is no lag between throttle opening and boost. The power to drive them is taken from the crankshaft, but a compressor bypass valve can reduce the loss to only a couple Hp at part throttle so fuel economy is not sacrificed. "

smufguy
04-08-2006, 06:59 AM
a centrifugal supercharger compressor works in the sampe principle as a turbo compressor. hence the centrifugal supercharger has its own flow charts. ;) they dont spin that fast. so i guess hydraulics can drive it in contrary to the turbo that spins at 300,000 rpm and more.

HostileJava
04-08-2006, 08:58 AM
but the only reason i would unhook ps is to gain some free power, without the motor having to turn the pump you would then gain "free power" but if i unhook it just to hook it back up for a turbo it seems kinda pointless to unhook it

I'm not sure I follow you. Yes we remove the PS because it robs HP from the engine and makes the car weigh less, but if you can use it for FI it's the same principal as a Supercharger, being driven by the engine requires some power, but the gain in power from forcing more air and fuel into the engine is worth it.

Accordtheory
04-08-2006, 09:41 AM
a centrifugal supercharger compressor works in the sampe principle as a turbo compressor. hence the centrifugal supercharger has its own flow charts. ;) they dont spin that fast. so i guess hydraulics can drive it in contrary to the turbo that spins at 300,000 rpm and more.

well, I think the speed of the actual compressor itself, the shaft rpm, could be just as high as a turbo. It's all about the gearing between the hydraulic 'motor' and the compressor shaft..

All in all, I think this is actually a very good idea. I think that doing this electrically would be difficult for a number of reasons, and I think the parasitic losses of the hydraulic sytem when not in boost could be minimized quite effectively. As gas prices continue to go up, people are going to seek ways of extracting more and more power out of smaller engines, without sacrificing low rpm power, you know how oems are with their undersized turbos..

Vector
04-10-2006, 11:22 AM
well, I think the speed of the actual compressor itself, the shaft rpm, could be just as high as a turbo. It's all about the gearing between the hydraulic 'motor' and the compressor shaft..
All in all, I think this is actually a very good idea. I think that doing this electrically would be difficult for a number of reasons, and I think the parasitic losses of the hydraulic sytem when not in boost could be minimized quite effectively. As gas prices continue to go up, people are going to seek ways of extracting more and more power out of smaller engines, without sacrificing low rpm power, you know how oems are with their undersized turbos..

princess auto sells all the shit here to mok somthing up hehe, gearing wise

i was actually thinking using chains to step up the rpm