Modern DOHC VTEC in an 89 Accord LX?

[RamThis]

I had this idea hit me a couple days ago. I have this Accord, its high mileage, and carbureted, and soooo underpowered. I love the car, its in great shape, rides great, and it's not too bad lookin of a car, but I just cant stand having 98 HP (probably somewhere around 75 or so having 182K on it) I also have a 96 Acura Integra GSR. While I had the hood up checking the oil, I noticed how similar the two engines are between the cars. Now I wonder, is there a DOHC 1.8L VTEC engine that I can drop in the 89LX that will bolt up fairly close, with minor modifications? Driveaxles are not a problem from what I can tell, I think I could easily have a set made from mine and some wrecking yard ones to create the proper length and adapt the transmission end to whatever transmission I'd wind up with.

If I were to get a complete engine, trans, ECM, and wire harness, would it be about as simple as getting it mounted up, hooking up the drive axles, mounting the ECM, connecting the shifter with some minor mods, get the exhaust downpipe replaced to fit the new header and location, and then some wiring and hoses retrofitted?

What 94 or newer VTEC engine will come closest to fitting in this car? I'd rather have a 96 or newer for the OBDII connection, but it's not a must. I'm really considering doing this swap just because I like the car, I have alot of time invested in refurbishing it and making it look like new again, and would like to give it some more power while increasing its driveablility and reliability factor. And on top of all that, what a friggin sleeper eh??? :cool:

[forrest89sei]

I had this idea hit me a couple days ago. I have this Accord, its high mileage, and carbureted, and soooo underpowered. I love the car, its in great shape, rides great, and it's not too bad lookin of a car, but I just cant stand having 98 HP (probably somewhere around 75 or so having 182K on it) I also have a 96 Acura Integra GSR. While I had the hood up checking the oil, I noticed how similar the two engines are between the cars. Now I wonder, is there a DOHC 1.8L VTEC engine that I can drop in the 89LX that will bolt up fairly close, with minor modifications? Driveaxles are not a problem from what I can tell, I think I could easily have a set made from mine and some wrecking yard ones to create the proper length and adapt the transmission end to whatever transmission I'd wind up with.
If I were to get a complete engine, trans, ECM, and wire harness, would it be about as simple as getting it mounted up, hooking up the drive axles, mounting the ECM, connecting the shifter with some minor mods, get the exhaust downpipe replaced to fit the new header and location, and then some wiring and hoses retrofitted?
What 94 or newer VTEC engine will come closest to fitting in this car? I'd rather have a 96 or newer for the OBDII connection, but it's not a must. I'm really considering doing this swap just because I like the car, I have alot of time invested in refurbishing it and making it look like new again, and would like to give it some more power while increasing its driveablility and reliability factor. And on top of all that, what a friggin sleeper eh??? :cool:

Legend Master swaped a B18 in his hatch, i'd talk to him!

I think the b18 is the Easiest of the modern engine into a 3gee swaps

someone even swaped in a H22!

but I think the the b18 swap you need what you said and just Motor mounts and CV half shafts.

and i think it's much easier swaping a OBD-1 vs a OBD-2?


Forrest
Trying to help

[SteveDX89]

I had this idea hit me a couple days ago. I have this Accord, its high mileage, and carbureted, and soooo underpowered. I love the car, its in great shape, rides great, and it's not too bad lookin of a car, but I just cant stand having 98 HP (probably somewhere around 75 or so having 182K on it) I also have a 96 Acura Integra GSR. While I had the hood up checking the oil, I noticed how similar the two engines are between the cars. Now I wonder, is there a DOHC 1.8L VTEC engine that I can drop in the 89LX that will bolt up fairly close, with minor modifications? Driveaxles are not a problem from what I can tell, I think I could easily have a set made from mine and some wrecking yard ones to create the proper length and adapt the transmission end to whatever transmission I'd wind up with.
If I were to get a complete engine, trans, ECM, and wire harness, would it be about as simple as getting it mounted up, hooking up the drive axles, mounting the ECM, connecting the shifter with some minor mods, get the exhaust downpipe replaced to fit the new header and location, and then some wiring and hoses retrofitted?
What 94 or newer VTEC engine will come closest to fitting in this car? I'd rather have a 96 or newer for the OBDII connection, but it's not a must. I'm really considering doing this swap just because I like the car, I have alot of time invested in refurbishing it and making it look like new again, and would like to give it some more power while increasing its driveablility and reliability factor. And on top of all that, what a friggin sleeper eh??? :cool:

Ok, first of all, did you search the engine swap section about B series swaps? You would have found that your mounts will have to be made by you or a shop. You would have found that you would need custom axles and shift rods. You say axles are not a problem but until you actually try it, it's a problem. Legend Master has torn up at least 2 axles trying to get one to work and finally had to settle on a custom driver side. Now, trying to stick an OBD II engine in an OBD 0 car is just asking for trouble. Stick to OBD I. An engine swap is never easy. I thought I had everything prepared for my B16 and that turned into a 3 week project and I've had problems with it ever since I did it and it's been 2 years. My engine is currently bolted to an engine stand waiting a rebuild. I would suggest you search around the board here some more. A lot of questions will be answered.

[RamThis]

Yes I did look around but there seemed to be alot of confusion as to whether a couple of "kits" were better than eachother or some home made mounts. I already planned on making my own mounts, just hoped that the mount locations on the engine would sorta jive with locations on the car that I could weld to, areas with enough structure to support and engine.

[SteveDX89]

Yes I did look around but there seemed to be alot of confusion as to whether a couple of "kits" were better than eachother or some home made mounts. I already planned on making my own mounts, just hoped that the mount locations on the engine would sorta jive with locations on the car that I could weld to, areas with enough structure to support and engine.

The mount locations are relatively close. Just have to sit it in there and measure, etc.

[snoopyloopy]

may i point out that as the owner of an lx, you are disadvantaged even more for this swap than if you owned an lx-i. because you must also do the whole efi conversion as well. although you may actually just have to do the efi conversion for whatever engine you're putting in as opposed to swapping to efi for an a20 then doing rewiring for the swapped engine. so for you, you may actually be able to put in an obd-ii easier than someone with an lx-i. but i'm just speculating. maybe someone who knows more could clear that up for you.

[voiceinurhead05]

I looked Into a couple of swaps. Some look easier than others.

You don't want to go lower than a 1.8 liter engine (except maybe the first GSR motor that was 1.7)
All of them require custom mounting and stuff like that but from what I saw I can probably order them from most to least difficult.

F20B- Accord euro-R or SiR (JDM)
H22A- Many different preludes
B17C- 1st GSR
B18C1- later model GSR motor
B18C5- Type- R motor

The type- r is the most difficult because of the oil cooler

[snoopyloopy]

[...]
order them from most to least difficult.
F20B- Accord euro-R or SiR (JDM)
H22A- Many different preludes
B17C- 1st GSR
B18C1- later model GSR motor
B18C5- Type- R motor
The type- r is the most difficult because of the oil cooler
are you saying the f20b is the easiest to swap in? from what i gathered over at cb7tuner, that wouldn't be so because it was only obd-ii compliant. same for the c5. the three in the middle were available in obd-i, though.

[SteveDX89]

I looked Into a couple of swaps. Some look easier than others.
You don't want to go lower than a 1.8 liter engine (except maybe the first GSR motor that was 1.7)
All of them require custom mounting and stuff like that but from what I saw I can probably order them from most to least difficult.
F20B- Accord euro-R or SiR (JDM)
H22A- Many different preludes
B17C- 1st GSR
B18C1- later model GSR motor
B18C5- Type- R motor
The type- r is the most difficult because of the oil cooler

The difficulty between all those B-series engines is the same. They all mount exactly the same way. So mounting a B16 or a type R is the same. All B-series have oil coolers except maybe the LS motors. The F-series and H-series use the exact same mounts. So putting an F20 is the same difficulty as an H22 which is as you state more difficult than a B series.

[Accordtheory]

If you have to make everything anyway, my logic is you might as well go for the h22..

[RamThis]

Well, I am more versed in OBDII systems than the older carb or OBDI cars so OBDII would be easier to deal with for me. I see OBDII as the "easiest" transition, granted I can score a complete engine with accessories, transmission, engine wiring harness, and ECM. You can basically throw the whole thing in there, hook up the battery, adapt a few hoses over for AC and tranny cooler and engine coolant and Power Steering, put in a Walbro inline fuel pump, and either find the signal wires for the guages to adapt the ones in the car, or yank the guage cluster and wire in a nice set of Auto Meter guages or find a way to adapt the donor car's guages, and away you go. OBDII engines, when you get the whole shebang out of the donor car, is basically self sufficient with it's own ECM. There will be no problem making the engine run fine or mounting it, the only snags will be hoses, and guages, which with some work that can all be adapted over. Then if you have a problem with the engine down the road, you have the option of hooking up an OBDII scanner to check for codes and read sensor readings to find electronic problems.

Ive done a few engine rebuilds and trans rebuilds on OBDII cars and have a halfway decent understanding of them, so this is how I see it working. I see an OBDII engine assembly as being self sufficient, meaning with the ECM and wire harness hooked up, you could mount it to a go-cart and have it run fine (figuratively speaking of course)

Unless someone has dropped in an OBDII engine and knows for sure there is some major snag somewhere and could give me some insight into it?????? Am I just completely wrong in my vision of how this swap would work?????

[Legend_master]

Well, I am more versed in OBDII systems than the older carb or OBDI cars so OBDII would be easier to deal with for me. I see OBDII as the "easiest" transition, granted I can score a complete engine with accessories, transmission, engine wiring harness, and ECM. You can basically throw the whole thing in there, hook up the battery, adapt a few hoses over for AC and tranny cooler and engine coolant and Power Steering, put in a Walbro inline fuel pump, and either find the signal wires for the guages to adapt the ones in the car, or yank the guage cluster and wire in a nice set of Auto Meter guages or find a way to adapt the donor car's guages, and away you go. OBDII engines, when you get the whole shebang out of the donor car, is basically self sufficient with it's own ECM. There will be no problem making the engine run fine or mounting it, the only snags will be hoses, and guages, which with some work that can all be adapted over. Then if you have a problem with the engine down the road, you have the option of hooking up an OBDII scanner to check for codes and read sensor readings to find electronic problems.
Ive done a few engine rebuilds and trans rebuilds on OBDII cars and have a halfway decent understanding of them, so this is how I see it working. I see an OBDII engine assembly as being self sufficient, meaning with the ECM and wire harness hooked up, you could mount it to a go-cart and have it run fine (figuratively speaking of course)
Unless someone has dropped in an OBDII engine and knows for sure there is some major snag somewhere and could give me some insight into it?????? Am I just completely wrong in my vision of how this swap would work?????


Well OBDII would be much more difficult, because you have to work much harder on the wiring. As for just popping in a the wire harness, that is about as simple as hand washing a porcupine. The motor mounts will need a lot of fab work and the drivers side axle will need to be custom. Since you have a carb motor, your swap will be even more difficult. You will not have the proper wiring harness inside the car so that will need to be added since the motor you are buying only has an engine harness. I am not sure if the carb motors even have the harness for the ECU or not, but either way you will also need a sub harness. So unless you are an automotive genius or you have an extra car to drive I wouldn't worry about swapping a B,H, or f-series in your car.

P.S.
The hoses were the easiest thing to hook up on the whole swap.

[SteveDX89]

Well, I am more versed in OBDII systems than the older carb or OBDI cars so OBDII would be easier to deal with for me. I see OBDII as the "easiest" transition, granted I can score a complete engine with accessories, transmission, engine wiring harness, and ECM. You can basically throw the whole thing in there, hook up the battery, adapt a few hoses over for AC and tranny cooler and engine coolant and Power Steering, put in a Walbro inline fuel pump, and either find the signal wires for the guages to adapt the ones in the car, or yank the guage cluster and wire in a nice set of Auto Meter guages or find a way to adapt the donor car's guages, and away you go. OBDII engines, when you get the whole shebang out of the donor car, is basically self sufficient with it's own ECM. There will be no problem making the engine run fine or mounting it, the only snags will be hoses, and guages, which with some work that can all be adapted over. Then if you have a problem with the engine down the road, you have the option of hooking up an OBDII scanner to check for codes and read sensor readings to find electronic problems.
Ive done a few engine rebuilds and trans rebuilds on OBDII cars and have a halfway decent understanding of them, so this is how I see it working. I see an OBDII engine assembly as being self sufficient, meaning with the ECM and wire harness hooked up, you could mount it to a go-cart and have it run fine (figuratively speaking of course)
Unless someone has dropped in an OBDII engine and knows for sure there is some major snag somewhere and could give me some insight into it?????? Am I just completely wrong in my vision of how this swap would work?????

In theory this would work, you can bolt any motor to a stand and as long as you have fuel and spark, it will run. Trying to get it to interface with the rest of the car is another story. There are electronics in every aspect of the car including lights, fuel system, gauges, etc. Sure you can swap in the motor with the OBD II harness and plug the ECU in. However, then you've isolated the motor from the rest of the car. The fuel system won't turn on, lights don't work. That engine harness needs to plug in the main cabin harness of the car. The engine harness connectors won't plug in so you'll have to hack up both harness, run subharnesses, or swap connectors. This is all based on the EFI cabin harness. You have the carb harness which is much less complicated, i.e. less wires. Therefore, you'll be adding a ton of wires. OBD II can be done but you might as well just re-wire the entire car.

[RamThis]

I assumed the lights had nothing to do with the engine harness, that they ran through the main breaker bus? And the fuel pump for an EFI engine ran at alot higher pressure, like 55-60 PSI, so that's why I mentioned putting in an inline Walbro pump rated for that PSI, and also isnt it's wiring and fuse run through the main breaker bus? I was pretty sure everything would still work on the car with the A20A1 engine yanked out totally, since all that really hooks up to the engine is oil pressure sending unit, coolant temp sending unit, O2 sensor, Charging circuit to the alternator, electric choke heater, intake preheater, and AC Clutch.

Now by just tying off the electric choke and preheater wires I can just eliminate those as an OBDII engine will not need these.

The oil pressure and coolant temp sending units will have to remain the same as the donor engine, because the ECM uses these to adjust its A/F mixture along with the Pre Cat O2 sensor. Those will just remain as is, and I might could tie into their wiring leads and hook it up to the main harness already in the car to get a signal to the guages.

The AC clutch is a no brainer, positive and negative, might just have to cut the connector and use an aftermarket to adapt. No Biggie.

The Alternator shouldnt be a problem, since I plan to find an engine with a full harness pulled from the car, it will also still be connected to it's own ECM, all I'd really have to do is just hook up the hot lead and find the signal wire to tie into the car's original wiring for the idiot light.

Starter is a no brainer as well. Hot lead ties in the same on all starters.

Since I plan to get an Auto trans like what's in it now, shift linkage shouldnt be too bad, its just a push-pull setup, not much more than possibly cutting and welding the rod's together to fit.

Motor mounts, as long as they mount in relatively the same place as the ones in there now, also wont be a problem, I can fab up some mounts fairly easily.

From my understanding, the guages will be the hardest thing to do, assuming the output leads from the donor engine's ECM run a totally different voltage or something than what the guage is supposed to recieve. In the event that the factory guages wont work, I could always use some AutoMeter guages to monitor oil pressure and coolant temp and ammeter readings.

Nothing about the Chassis Electrical, such as Lights, Stereo, Cabin Lights, AC blower, ETC will be effected by putting a different engine in there. Only engine related items will have to be dealt with.

The new OBDII engine may always show a CEL when pulling codes due to the Evap system not being right, but it wont effect the way it runs. As long as all the engine and exhaust sensors are in place and working, it will run fine.

[88LXi68]

I am glad someone thinks that they figured it all out to swap an engine in this car...To think, we are all just stupid for not having thought of this years ago!!

[Baveara]

i my friend make all us texans look like idiots. your ideal would work but not the way u say it.

[Accordtheory]

I haven't modified any obd2 cars as far as wiring goes, but I have seen a couple swaps where the entire wiring harness basically just goes directly from the engine to the ecu, with very few wires going out to other things, like the guages. That would be ideal, but adding more wires to a factory harness to convert to obd2 still wouldn't be that much more difficult in my opinion though either. As far as the coolant temp guage and the oil press idiot light, that's no problem. The factory accord coolant temp guage is controlled by a single wire thermistor mounted on the side of the head, it should be easy enough to put that on an h22 if it doesn't already have it. The oil press thing is just a switch that connects to ground in the event of loss of oil press, triggering the light and eventually killing the fuel pump. I just left that off for now, since I have a mechanical gauge, but I will connect it again in the future. All in all, and despite your screen name, RamThis, (..ha ha) you sound like you're sufficiently educated and motivated to tackle a project like this, so good luck.

[SteveDX89]

I'm probably off base with the wiring aspect but I do know that the engine harness connects to the main cabin harness at both ends. That's probably just to send the stuff to the ECU, I dunno, I never really studied a wiring diagram too much. If you can pull this off, you would be the first. There's been guys running OBD I but never OBD II. As far as I understand, OBD I is better for tuning due to less restrictive emission stuff. I'd stick with that personally but it's your car.

[Legend_master]

Motor mounts, as long as they mount in relatively the same place as the ones in there now, also wont be a problem, I can fab up some mounts fairly easily.



You do understand that the passenger side mount is non existant on the accord, but a tranny mount is required for the b,h,f. So you will need to fab up a place to mount to.

[wprocomp]

swaps can be easy to do IF you know what your doing-the LX/crb A20 has plenty of potential if you want to fix it up-a full rebuild with higher compression a weber carb,some good head work/cam etc etc will make a pretty good combo-you also have to realize mounts/axles/ecu/wiring can be quite exspensive im sure legend has spent well over $3k on his swap unless he got his motor free and got it machined dirt cheap.....so if your willing to put that much time and effort into a car that costs less then $1k averge go for it-but if you plan on going b-series do yourself a favor and go find a decent LX-i 5-speed car-itll save you alot of headaches and $$$

or do like I did and go the easy way get yourself a JDM B20A from the 86-89 accord,pretty much a direct swap

[masterkillalw]

OK with OBDII, Since I have worked with plenty of them, you are gonna need a 2nd o2 sensor, run an egr valve, and TONS of wiring. With OBDII, everything is wired into the ECU, which means everything is wired all together which means you are going to do a lot of work just to get the harness in the car. I wouldn't even try going OBDII.

[RamThis]

I am glad someone thinks that they figured it all out to swap an engine in this car...To think, we are all just stupid for not having thought of this years ago!!
Do us all a favor and go play in the middle of the freeway, let darwinism take its course, the world would be better for it.
Nice to see that you have added so much to the think tank here. :rolleyes:
I'm no mechanical genius, but I have been a mechanic for 12 years, about five of those were building F-16 Falcons for Lockheed and designing/building/test piloting UAV Aircraft for DRS Unmanned Technologies. So yeah, I do consider myself fairly versed in mechanical assemblies and thinking outside the box. This idea is one of those projects. Take something nice, and upgrade its lesser components to make the whole package work better.
Anyone who says it CAN'T be done is an idiot. I want to know how it CAN be done, that's all I ask.

[RamThis]

I haven't modified any obd2 cars as far as wiring goes, but I have seen a couple swaps where the entire wiring harness basically just goes directly from the engine to the ecu, with very few wires going out to other things, like the guages. That would be ideal, but adding more wires to a factory harness to convert to obd2 still wouldn't be that much more difficult in my opinion though either. As far as the coolant temp guage and the oil press idiot light, that's no problem. The factory accord coolant temp guage is controlled by a single wire thermistor mounted on the side of the head, it should be easy enough to put that on an h22 if it doesn't already have it. The oil press thing is just a switch that connects to ground in the event of loss of oil press, triggering the light and eventually killing the fuel pump. I just left that off for now, since I have a mechanical gauge, but I will connect it again in the future. All in all, and despite your screen name, RamThis, (..ha ha) you sound like you're sufficiently educated and motivated to tackle a project like this, so good luck.

See this is what I was thinking, leave most of the original car's harness intact, drop in the new engine with its own ECU harness and ECU to control the engine, and tap in to the few things essential to integrating it in the car, and voila, OBDII in a 89 LX. As for the second O2 sensor, yeah, I forgot to mention the Post-Cat O2, that's as simple as welding in a bung in the exhaust and popping it in. The axle shop down the road from me is excellent and are very fair on their prices for their work, so I know he could make me some axles for a reasonable price.

[RamThis]

I'm probably off base with the wiring aspect but I do know that the engine harness connects to the main cabin harness at both ends. That's probably just to send the stuff to the ECU, I dunno, I never really studied a wiring diagram too much. If you can pull this off, you would be the first. There's been guys running OBD I but never OBD II. As far as I understand, OBD I is better for tuning due to less restrictive emission stuff. I'd stick with that personally but it's your car.

As far as tuning goes, I really dont want to hop up the engine once it's in. The ONLY reason I want to switch is to get rid of the carb setup, and put in a more powerful stock engine, that has the luxury of great driveability, mostly cold starts and not having to let it warm up and idle down forever.

As for OBDII, the two main reasons I want to go that route is, one, I know them better, and two, I want a newer lower mileage engine that I have to do nothing to other than simply put it in the car and wire it up. I dont want to have to rebuild an older engine. I basically want the whole retrofit to be as simple as buy the engine and related parts, mount it, wire it, hose it, axle it, and drive it, knowing it wont be just as easy as that through the whole process. (yeah I know there will be snags along the way but I can figure a way around them)

I have three other vehicles to drive, so, if it takes me a month or two to figure it all out, so be it. Im in no hurry, and I want to do it right and have it run like any other car where you just hop in, turn the key, and drive.

[masterkillalw]

well good luck. I say just go with it and see what happens. Like I said, GOOD LUCK. Took me 6 months to do a B series swap into my 87 lude. Almost like your accord. Anyways, GOOD LUCK.

[speedpenguin]

Yea, man. If you've got the experience, anything can be swapped into anything. We tend to try not to tell people not to get in over their head on this site, but it seems you won't have this problem.

No one said it couldn't be done, it'd just be harder than OBD-I

[RamThis]

I guess I was more hoping someone here had already been down this avenue and could give me some experienced insight into how they resolved certain problems they came across. If I decide to tear into this car I guess I'll be going down an untraveled road so to speak. This is the idea I will be doing only if I end up having to keep this car for a while. If the partnership between my friend and I in his new business works out half as good as we see it going, this car is not long for my driveway anyway LOL. But, I almost would like to keep it regardless just to put a hot stock engine in it just for the fun of it being a total sleeper. It still wont be real fast, but it will sure surprise alot of folks, especially if a GSR engine would boil off the tires in that car like I can do in my Teg GSR. What a vision lol.

[Legend_master]

I guess I was more hoping someone here had already been down this avenue and could give me some experienced insight into how they resolved certain problems they came across. If I decide to tear into this car I guess I'll be going down an untraveled road so to speak. This is the idea I will be doing only if I end up having to keep this car for a while. If the partnership between my friend and I in his new business works out half as good as we see it going, this car is not long for my driveway anyway LOL. But, I almost would like to keep it regardless just to put a hot stock engine in it just for the fun of it being a total sleeper. It still wont be real fast, but it will sure surprise alot of folks, especially if a GSR engine would boil off the tires in that car like I can do in my Teg GSR. What a vision lol.


Accordtheory did it with an LXi model and his own mounts.

[88LXi68]

Do us all a favor and go play in the middle of the freeway, let darwinism take its course, the world would be better for it.
Nice to see that you have added so much to the think tank here. :rolleyes:
I'm no mechanical genius, but I have been a mechanic for 12 years, about five of those were building F-16 Falcons for Lockheed and designing/building/test piloting UAV Aircraft for DRS Unmanned Technologies. So yeah, I do consider myself fairly versed in mechanical assemblies and thinking outside the box. This idea is one of those projects. Take something nice, and upgrade its lesser components to make the whole package work better.
Anyone who says it CAN'T be done is an idiot. I want to know how it CAN be done, that's all I ask.

I guess being one of the few that has actually done the swap I would not know much about the subject.

Why re-invent the wheel? Pick up a Honda shop manual and all the pinouts and wires are there. It is much simpler than trying to rig up a system with a bunch of wires going around to the accessories.

[carotman]

If only mounts were available off the shelf... that would make things sooo simple.

[Legend_master]

If only mounts were available off the shelf... that would make things sooo simple.


:werd:

[Accordtheory]

I'm no mechanical genius, but I have been a mechanic for 12 years, about five of those were building F-16 Falcons for Lockheed and designing/building/test piloting UAV Aircraft for DRS Unmanned Technologies. So yeah, I do consider myself fairly versed in mechanical assemblies and thinking outside the box.

I'm a 24 year old high school dropout who has no formal mechanical training/schooling whatsoever. (and no budget whatsoever either:) ) So if I can turbocharge my car myself, build my own mounts, my motor, the wiring, basically every single thing on the car without any help from anyone, it should be a piece of cake for you..

I chose to go with obd1 because that is the platform that every aftermarket management system I know of uses, and I'm definitely going to need legit management when I spool my holset turbo up. I think even the aem requires an ob2-1 conversion harness..?

[RamThis]

I'm a 24 year old high school dropout who has no formal mechanical training/schooling whatsoever. (and no budget whatsoever either:) ) So if I can turbocharge my car myself, build my own mounts, my motor, the wiring, basically every single thing on the car without any help from anyone, it should be a piece of cake for you..
I chose to go with obd1 because that is the platform that every aftermarket management system I know of uses, and I'm definitely going to need legit management when I spool my holset turbo up. I think even the aem requires an ob2-1 conversion harness..?

Sounds like you are alot like myself. I am 28 and have done mechanical from small engines, to working for John Deere on large farm equipment (cab tractors and such) to Auto Body, Transmissions, House framing and finishing, steel structures, concrete, tile, you name it, Ive probably done it. Reason being, I am a cheap bastard and refuse to pay someone to do anything for me unless its totally beyond my physical abilities. I think I have saved myself many many thousands of dollars over the years by doing just about everything myself. Sure, not every project I do turns out flawless, but I have the satisfaction that I did it myself, and I learned something new.

Case in point with this retrofit idea. I could probably pay a custom shop to do this for me, but I want to do it basically for the challenge, and to learn. Some of the ideas implemented in a project like this to overcome certain obstacles could be used in later projects, or to help someone else wanting to do the same thing. Plus, man, it's just cool!




Accordtheory did it with an LXi model and his own mounts.


I guess being one of the few that has actually done the swap I would not know much about the subject.

And, just to recap, I was told earlier no one has done an OBDII retrofit before????? If someone has done the OBDII retrofit here, why isn't anyone willing to give any information on how they did it?

[Accordtheory]

You say you want to keep the engine stock, but here's something to think about. The level of power modern cars are coming out with is getting to be kind of insane. It's hard to buy even a small car with much under 200hp now. Most family sedans have at least 240-260 hp, the nissan altima 3.5 se runs what, a 14.7? The accord Hybrid has like 40 hp on an h22. And I'm not even talking about performance oriented cars like the the 350z/g35, or more expensive cars like bmws, benzes, etc. Shit, the gto has like 340hp, it is just ridiculous. There are So many cars out there that will just smoke stock civics/integras/preludes.. I can't imagine the feeling of completing a difficult swap and then getting your pride and sense of accomplishment pissed on by a totally stock car driven by someone who has no automotive knowledge whatsoever, but thinks they're cool because they can press a gas pedal down and win.

The opposite feeling is much nicer..that look of initial confusion, slowly building into frustration, and then ultimately culminating in respect when you school someone in a new 'performance' car in a 3g, this ridiculously old, faded economy car with no aftermarket support..

[Accordtheory]

I think the guy who just completed the h22 did it with obd2, but I'm not sure..I don't feel like reading the whole thread again..but if it is, he didn't do it himself, so he wouldn't be able to tell you much anyway.

[RamThis]

Well, I dont expect it to win many races, and Im really not looking to build it for that anyway. I just like the car, but hate the engine. I wanted to do this to increase it's power when on the highway and around town, and make it easier to deal with on a daily basis by having a modern SMPFI engine in it.

I have contacted Rywire.com about this to see if they have any answers as well. What would be the shit is if they had a harness that would connect to a specific OBDII VTEC ECU from some certain model year and make, so it would be just finding that car to get my donor parts from and use their harness and all wiring is done, its just about mounting it and axles and hoses. But, I'm not holding my breath on that one LOL.

[RamThis]

You do understand that the passenger side mount is non existant on the accord, but a tranny mount is required for the b,h,f. So you will need to fab up a place to mount to.

I think I noticed that earlier today looking under my Integra GSR. Doesnt look like much of a problem making a mount for it though in the Accord.

[Accordtheory]

I do NOT recommend rywire. They totally Fucked my harness up. Did you read my thread 'how to swap in a b series without a kit'? I paid them a little over $300 only to have to take the Entire harness apart and redo the Entire thing myself. They can go pay each other my $300 to fuck each other in the ass. The harness didn't fit at all. Every wire was the wrong length, wires were connected incorrectly, etc. The jumper connection that was supposed to reach under the driver's seat came out by the passenger side Headlight. They have never even seen a stock 3g in person, much less a swapped one.

[RamThis]

Wow, ok LOL. Sounds like a couple companies I have dealt with in the past too, I feel your pain. Guess it's just as well, they never replied to my question anyway LOL.

Well, Im putting in ANOTHER alternator today, only got about 150 miles out of the new one I put in and it blew. Lights got really bright for a second when I was accelerating, then it seemed like everything went dark, the stereo turned off, then the stereo and the lights came back on, and the battery light was on. Checked the voltage when I got home and at idle it was only showing 12V, Alternator fried, damnit. I have already pulled the DS axle and yanked the alternator. Just gotta take it back and get another one. Between breaking axles and bad alternators, I will be a freaking genius on tearing down a stock 3G's LOL.


Also, the engine I have in my Teg is a B18C1. I love the power this thing puts out. Question though, is there a car made that runs this engine that has an automatic trans? What is most similar to this engine with an Auto Trans?

[snoopyloopy]

none of the vtec integ engines came with an auto tranny. so you'll have to either grab a b18a/b or a b16 as some b16 cars came with an auto. or a b20b/z. or the accord b20a comes with an auto as well and would be easiest to put in in terms of mounting points and wiring. the hardest part would probably be locating one. i think carotman mentioned that he could get them for a couple hundred and that most of them come with autos.

[RamThis]

Hmm great info, thanks. :cheers:

[masterkillalw]

vtec engine did come with auto trans. Look it up.

[snoopyloopy]

really. i thought so, because i've seen some GSRs in autotrader with autos. but i did some light skimming of some other integra forums and only came up with references to it being manual. so that was the driving force behind my other reply.

[RamThis]

I too just assumed the GSR Tegs all came with standards, ours is, and I believe every one Ive seen on eBay or Autotrader was five speed. I was hoping maybe there were some Tegs or another car that had a VTEC 1.8 or 2.0 with an auto tranny bolted to it that was 96 or newer.

Where could I find out what exact cars to look for with the B series VTEC and Auto Trans? That would make life alot simpler in skimming through online ads and looking at wrecking yards.......

[snoopyloopy]

these are the only american vehicles with a vtec b-series engine stock that i know of (someone correct me if i'm wrong somewhere).
civic si 96-97, 99-00: b16a2
integra gsr 93: b17
integra gsr 94-01: b18c1
integra type-r 97-01: b18c5
civic del sol 93-97: b16a1

out of that list, the gsr may have had an option of an auto tranny and the same for the del sol. the si and the itr didn't come with an auto tranny at all.

[85lude]

If you check out h2b.com they make a adapter plate to bolt a b series trans to a h22. that would figure out the hydro clutch and shift cables

[sofaking_bob]

so like.. wait..

i'm so lost in the confusion of phallic measuring that's been going on for the last two pages.

i've been off the board for a while, but did i read correctly when i saw that someone had done an h22 swap???

sooo... what i wanna know is what would be the best route? i've seen a few b series swaps in our cars, and i think a b18c1 hatch would be badass, but i read somewhere that someone was having problems cause the engine was lighter than the a20... made handling a bit strange or whatever. i'm pretty certain that wouldn't be a factor with an h22. plus i can score an h22 hella cheaper than a b18. i've already got a y1 tranny(w/lsd) sitting in storage and if there's a plate that'd allow me to connect that up with an h series that's awesome. but at the same time, who wants to mess with obd2? i've got an lx-i and i think hondata makes a harness for upgrading to obd1 that'll work on that pgm-fi.

if i could find a b20a and a 5-speed with it, i'd go that route. just to be a rarity nerd. that's not really realistic anymore though, but man.. h22, b18.. grrrr.

any advice?