Ball joint snapped.... help

[FyreDaug]

PICTURES ON POST 17

Luckily I was only doing city speeds at the time, but like the title says, the balljoint snapped on the driver side, suspension fell and gouged up the inside of the wheel.

Heres the thing though, I visually checked them out the other day, no rips on the boot. Checked for lateral movement and there was none, so I figured everything was all good. But today I noticed the wheel was a little off to the left, and I figured gf clipped a curb or something. So when I picked her up she said no, and there was no wheel damage or anything. 10mins after I pick her up, it collapses. ARG.

Now this is what I got. Ive got 2 parts car, 1 with 2 new ball joints in them. Had them put in <6months ago, and the car has sat for 2+. months. So what I'm thinking is to pull the hub(s) off the other car, or atleast 1 to get it on the road again. And get the joint pressed out and press it into this one. The problem with that is I need the parts car to be movable, so if I just take the parts ill have a suspensionless car.

I got the "cheap" ball joints, they were 45/each I think, compared to the 60 each for the other ones. The advice I need is whether or not I should pull the other car apart and get them pressed out and in to the other one, or just buy new ones and press them in. This really sucks, and Id really hate to have to buy new ones when Ive got ones with less than 10000km on them just sitting there...

EDIT: relevant or not, it also seemed harder to steer today, but I thought it was just because I worked all day lifting and installing seats and shit and my arms were really tired (which they were) so thats why I didnt think much of it.

[MessyHonda]

i say...whatever you have to do to make your car work...that sucks...im scared now since my car is geting old and im starting to feel it but i like my car so much...hope i can check it...;but first i need a underbody wash

[FyreDaug]

Im getting tired of old cars, something keeps going wrong no matter how you treat it.... I almost wish I had warranty on somethings... I'll let you guys know what happened tomorrow, ill get cell phone pics, but not sure when ill get em up... ps, someone recommend a host.

[MessyHonda]

photobucket.com works good. camera phones are geting better and better every model but i still stick with my 4mp cam

[Nospeed]

that sucks dood. just tear apart the parts car...you can always roll the front of the car on a jack and a few friends i guess. no sense buying new joints if you got some 30 feet away...:)

[FyreDaug]

Im gonna go to the car in a bit here, calling tow truck company and they are gonna bring it to my apartment

[ghettogeddy]

photobucket.com works good. camera phones are geting better and better every model but i still stick with my 4mp cam

i just bought an 8mg at fry's for 50 bucks

[MessyHonda]

i just bought an 8mg at fry's for 50 bucks

damn thats hella cheap....but what brand is it?....well right now i need a video card i remember that they had a card for $0 cuz they had a 50 bucks mail in rebate...so you just pay taxes.

[ghettogeddy]

ya its an svp and so far the thing works pritty good theres reall no zoom but im not taking pics of birds and stuff but any ways sorry for hijacking the thread

[FyreDaug]

yeahback on topic here... this is what I found out when the car arrived here (after walking 30mins to it in 26C weather) The ball joint clean came out of the boot. THe boot is torn right off, the ball joint is nice and shiny and looks like it may have been chipped. There was no sign of grease or anything in it :|. When it got here the tow driver didnt put it properly in my stall and I had to get it moved so since it was on the inside of the wheel I figured it would continue to grind or whatever and I could just move it a couple feet. Nope, it went forward a bit and the wheel popped over it so it was sideways. Fuck, so I jack it back up and put the ball joint back... inside the wheel, and try to move it back with the motor, with the car on, it would go straight into gear, no clutch nothing. It wouldnt budge. Jack it up again to see the inside of the boot next to the trans BUSTED right open and theres axle parts on the ground, I got 2 bearings and a rubber cover thing it seems LYING on the ground.

Great, somehow the axle busts when it was fine before. But I probably caused the axle to bust when the wheel tilted sideways. Now Im wondering if the diff inside the tranny is fucked. I didnt turn the car on and put it in gear to see if anything spun in there, but it sure didnt move.

Now what I'm thinking is swapping the whole drivers side parts from the good parts car. Because the hub is still good, it has the good ball joint in it, all I will need is an upper ball joint and ill swap everything. Axle, strut, LCA, hub.

Just need to get the tie rod end off. BTW, how do you do that? I tried on my other parts car before when I needed a hub but I couldnt get it off, I took the cotter pin out but no socket was good enough for that nut, and it seemed like it was almost plastic....

[carotman]

You should never cheap out on balljoints. I heard many horror stories about cheap balljoints.

Juan (oldschoolaccord) scrapped his B16 powered coupe a few years back cause of cheap ass balljoints.

[FyreDaug]

Well its still better than getting a knuckle from a yard not knowing how many k's are on it. how long SHOULD bj's last for (lawl, keep it to car talk here)

[carotman]

bj's LOL.

Well, your knuckle shouldn't be broken or anything. Just get a new balljoint and put it in there. You might want to check the tie-rod end also as well as the upper arm. The tie-rod end is just a regular castle nut so it should be easy to replace.

I would be surprised if you damaged the differential. The axle inner joint basicaly busted out so you might try to get a new boot and grease it if the bearings are still undamaged. If not, get a new axle.

Balljoints should last for a very long time if you get high quality ones. I've seen some cheap ones last under a year here in Quebec's harsh conditions.

[FyreDaug]

lol, no the axle busted right apart, and I recovered a couple bearings from the ground. Axle is completely toast.

Now my predicament if the parts car hub has a new bj, and it has a fucked wheel bearing, which I forgot about. That really sucks, I was hoping I could just swap hubs. Priced everything out and this is what I got

balljoints from napa are either 30 bucks or 90 bucks. Part source has them for 42 or 60.
Wheel bearings at napa were 100, or 250 for hub.
Wheel bearings at part source were 72 each.
Upper ball joint at part source 105.39. Napa 71 or 154 (whole control arm)

What I now KNOW the car needs is a driver axle for sure, driver ball joint for sure. Upon further inspection I noticed that both upper bj's have a tear in the boot, so those will eventually need to be replaced as well, also, the passenger axle has a tear in the boot.

Axles arent much to worry about, Ive got good ones on the parts car.
And as for ball joints, I have the 42$ ones from part source in there with <10k on it. Upper bj's are fucked on the other car too, so when I replace them I suppose I will need new ones. But for now what I need to get the car on the road is 1 axle and 1 lower bj on drivers and I should be good to go. However, repairs will still be needed later.

[89AccordLX2dr]

Well, first off, good thing noone got hurt! Your BJ broke because it dried out and basically seized up, breaking under the pressure since it couldn't move. Hence the hard steering. A good sign that the lower BJ is about to die, is when you start to hear a creaking/squeeking sound when you bounce the suspension or turn the steering. My passenger side lower BJ did this about 2 yrs ago, but I replaced it before it broke. Was the orginal one from 89, so it lasted a good 15 years. The drivers side needs to be done too, it'll creak in certain weather conditions, but not terribly.

I don't know if the 87's are different, but with my 89 I didn't need to press them out, just a big socket on the bottom and whack them out of the knuckle (after you remove the clip). As for tie rod end, a pickle fork will work, or get a big hammer and hit the knuckle where the tie rod goes through, the force will pop the joint out if you hit it hard enough. If the tie rod looks old, like an original, just replace it.. they're cheap enough... safety first! If you can't get a good grip on the nut using a socket, vise grip it off, castle nuts shouldn't be reused anyway unless they're in really good condition.

As for the axle, sounds like it just pulled apart and nothing a little reassembly and re-greasing/booting wouldn't fix up.

There's a guy on ebay that sells complete frontend balljoint kits.. upper/lower/inner and outter tie rod ends/stabalizer links, come with new bushings and bolts.. $200cdn I think. I think his user name is canarm or armcan, I think I'll buy the rebuild kit off him, can't beat that price. I believe the parts are fabricated in Canada too, so you know it's high quality, no China crap.

Edit: arm_can and his ebay store is Arm-Can Auto Parts
Ball Joint Control Arm Tie Rod End Sway Bar Link ACCORD $166 buy it now + $26 shipping

[FyreDaug]

I can guarantee you the axle is fucked. There are parts of the bearings lying on the ground, some I cant even find, the boot tore and the inside of the the part thats still in the transmission is all fucked up and things hanging out of it too. I wish I could get motorola phone tools to work with my godamn razr so I can show you guys some pictures.

Anyways, the last update for the day I suppose:
Got the old ball joint out (it still has the threaded side, and the ball, it just came out of the top part, it didnt break. absolutely nothing is broken on this ball joint, it just "came out" And it sure did dry up, I dont know if they could be originals or not, but there was no grease, when I rub my finger up the inside of the part of the bj thats still attached to the hub all I get is dirt like substance, like dried out grease. Not sure how it just popped out like that, but the other half of it is still in the hub, just an open circular thing where the ball would be inside (ball still attached to the threaded part)

Ok, so ball joint out, whole hub assembly off but the axle is still stuck in the hub, no matter what I did I couldnt get it to break loose. The axle is fucked anyways, so when I bring the hub to the mechanic to get it pressed in ill get him to air gun it off and throw it away. Hopefully it wont be too much of a problem, just need to hold the axle tight so it doesnt move when you try to break the nut off. I'll get some nut blaster stuff and spray it over night.

Then tomorrow head up to the parts car and do the exact same thing I spent all day on today.

Atleast on the parts car I had the hub and everything taken off <10k ago so it shouldnt be as siezed up as it was on here today.

I'll update everyone again tomorrow, as for right now, ill dick around with mobile phone tools to try to get some pics again

EDIT: Also, no creaking/squeaking of ANY kind from the suspension

[FyreDaug]

Ok, stupid MPT sucks, but I managed to get it to get the pictures off my phone.... so here we go
--YESTERDAY--
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1223.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1224.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1225.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1226.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1227.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1228.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/29-04-06_1229.jpg
--TODAY--
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1451.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1452.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1453.jpg

[FyreDaug]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1454.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1455.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/FyreDaug/30-04-06_1456.jpg

[89AccordLX2dr]

Yea, I'd say that C/V shaft had better days!

[88Accord-DX]

You wasn't B.S.itting... Looks like you will need what is left pulled out of the spidle/hub & new lower ball joint pressed in the spindle/hub....

[FyreDaug]

Why would the cv rip apart like that?

[89AccordLX2dr]

When the wheel folded back, it binded the C/V aswell as pulling it apart (longer than it should be) With the car's momentum still driving the right wheel along and the left wheel is in a binded state, the differential goes into 2X. (Be like popping the clutch in 5th at 20mph in a split second with the force having nowhere to go)

This huge abrupt force was taken out on the binded C/V. Since it couldn't spin, and being in a binded state and over extended, it pulled apart while a huge amount of torque was dumped.

The force came from the right wheel (momentum of the vehicle) to the tranny, to the engine, engine couldn't drop half it's rpm in 0.01 second (due to Differential 2X) so the weakest link broke, being the binded left C/V. Ahh Physics, isin't it wonderful. Hope that wasn't too confusing :huh:

[Hazwan]

When the wheel folded back, it binded the C/V aswell as pulling it apart (longer than it should be) With the car's momentum still driving the right wheel along and the left wheel is in a binded state, the differential goes into 2X. (Be like popping the clutch in 5th at 20mph in a split second with the force having nowhere to go)
This huge abrupt force was taken out on the binded C/V. Since it couldn't spin, and being in a binded state and over extended, it pulled apart while a huge amount of torque was dumped.
The force came from the right wheel (momentum of the vehicle) to the tranny, to the engine, engine couldn't drop half it's rpm in 0.01 second (due to Differential 2X) so the weakest link broke, being the binded left C/V. Ahh Physics, isin't it wonderful. Hope that wasn't too confusing :huh:

my head!!! lol

[carotman]

Wow, that's one busted axle!!!

You should just get OEM balljoints from Honda and leave the aftermarket ones alone.

[StressSolutions]

Looks like you need a new belt too...see pic 3



"binded"? WTF? how about "bound" or "stuck"

[FyreDaug]

Most recent update:

Bought a cheapo ball joint today for 30 bucks. Says 1yr warranty, and thats longer than I plan on keeping the car anyways. I got a new axle from a wrecker today for 45 (bj was 30) and I got the old axle out, thrown away and new BJ seated for 40 bucks. so im looking at about 120 bucks for repairs, much less than I was thinking. So tomorrow I plan to install everything again and put it all back together. I got new 5w30 oil to throw in the tranny, aswell as some more lucas oil stabilizer. I hope no damage was caused to transmission, but I guyess we'll see...

[FyreDaug]

And today:

Got the old axle popped out and the new one, the hub and everything is back together, but I need upper ball joints still.... Ill do it later, aslong as its on the road to get to and from for now im good. Boot recently tore so Ive got a couple 1000 k's

[Cheeseburger]

thats sucks bro.

[89AccordLX2dr]

I noticed my upper ball joint rubber was torn in half when I did the lower bj, that was about 20k ago, they knock and rattle now in certain road conditions, like rutted gravel roads with that washed ripply effect. Sounds like a huge woodpecker under each wheel rapping away

[FyreDaug]

Are the uppers likely to go out? Or could I make a 3000km round trip trip on em? They tore about 1000km ago or more maybe

[89AccordLX2dr]

Well, my passenger side upper has been torn for about 2yrs now, and has rattled for atleast a year. I hope to get them changed out soon. You'll probably be fine, but the 50-60 bucks for a new one would be good insurance if you're going on a several thousand mile trip!

[FyreDaug]

Try 110+tax each... thats whats holding me back. Much more expensive than I was thinking.