Fly Wheel? Racing Clutch?

[Trick87Accord]

I have a quick question what is the advantage of the light fly wheel and is it somehthing that would be worth doing even if i dont have any engine mods and what about the racing clutch what advantages does that have and where can i get one? whats the best? in the fly wheel and the clutch?

[SteveDX89]

A lighter flywheel will allow the engine to rev up faster. This helps reach the powerband faster. A performance clutch has more gripping power. There's less chance the clutch disc will slip. I'm happy with my ACT clutch and flywheel but I don't think they make anything for the A20.

[HostileJava]

The lightened flywheel also reduces rotational mass. From what I understand the less rotational mass on the crank the more hp to the wheels.

[rjudgey]

go to www.clutchnet.com they have applications for your cars, the great thing about Ally flywheels and aftermarket clutches is they last longer and take more abuse, they are also not that much more expensive than stock parts. Clutchnet do the best kits available and are so well made i've not seen anything better or cheaper. They also do a huge range of disk materials too and everything from mid spec plate to heavy duty race.
The ally flywheel is handy as it has replaceable ring gear and flywheel face so you'll never have to buy another flywheel again unless a clutch fell apart and is phyiscally damaged. Also when it's done it's done you can happily change everything else knowing that whatever you do to the engine NOS turbo car upgrade your clutch is never going to slip and the fylwheel will give you extra pickup and not wear out quicker.

[sinisterfuzzy]

what kind should you get? (clutch) solid hub or sprung hub? and as far as clutch net goes when do you know if you should use yellow or green? and how about pressure plates?

[AccordEpicenter]

the clutchnet dual diaphram pressure plate and 6 puck sprung hub will handle anything you can throw at it... and i mean ANYTHING. I run that clutch with an 8lb aasco aluminum flywheel and love that combo. If you want the car to be streetable get the sprung hub, the unsprung hub is a bitch to drive, i hated mine. Clutchnet>*

[sinisterfuzzy]

the clutchnet dual diaphram pressure plate and 6 puck sprung hub will handle anything you can throw at it... and i mean ANYTHING. I run that clutch with an 8lb aasco aluminum flywheel and love that combo. If you want the car to be streetable get the sprung hub, the unsprung hub is a bitch to drive, i hated mine. Clutchnet>*

which pressure plate? they have green, yellow, and red lol

[AccordEpicenter]

umm i think its the biggest one they have... would def qualify as a red one

[rjudgey]

Yep i agree don't mess about get Red theres a couple of different red ones though pedal pressure isn't that bad though still. The organic sprung hub is good but if you have a sprung hub you need to get the inside of the flywheel machined out as it hits the inside of the flywheel your okay with solid though.
Accord epicenter what flywheel you running 2G lude 1.8 or 3G accord a20? Not sure which is best to get the lude flywheel or Accord one? clutchnet have both bought a D16 one by mistake thought it was the same bolt pattern then discovered they only had 6 holes doh!! Thank God for Ebay!!

[sinisterfuzzy]

will i even need the transmission upgrades, really besides the cam and port and polish (look at my sig for my setup) i'm doing pretty much basic bolt ons. And even if i do go with new tranny wouldn't i be able to get away with like the "green" performance, i've also heard that a lighter flywheel is pretty much like adding 10-30 horsepower to the wheels so i dont know, enlighten me! and talking about getting the flywheel machined? would that still be neccesary if i got an aftermarket flywheel (and clutch and presure plate), wouldn't they all fit together like one happy family?

[rjudgey]

If you get clutchnet flywheel and clutch will be fine only an issue with stock 2G prelude flywheel as far as i know not sure about stock 3g accord one?

[crazykamper]

flywheel : i hear that if you get an 8-10lb flywheel, it accelerates awesome, but it also decelerates quick too. what do you think would be BEST for daily driving, i dont have any REAL mods done to the car, what do you think would be good. i was thinkin around a 10-12, but i dont know. i want something that will help with acceleration, but i still want to be able to use as daily driver...

[sinisterfuzzy]

flywheel : i hear that if you get an 8-10lb flywheel, it accelerates awesome, but it also decelerates quick too. what do you think would be BEST for daily driving, i dont have any REAL mods done to the car, what do you think would be good. i was thinkin around a 10-12, but i dont know. i want something that will help with acceleration, but i still want to be able to use as daily driver...

yeah i agree with him, really i'm just putting an exhaust, a weber 38, tri-flow regrind, and maybe some headwork, this however is my daily driver, that i take to school and work. so w/e

[lostforawhile]

The lightened flywheel also reduces rotational mass. From what I understand the less rotational mass on the crank the more hp to the wheels.and the less torque

[crazykamper]

wait, so theres less torque??? or more??

[HostileJava]

and the less torque

Yeah, explain that one to me. I would think this is the same general principle as the heavier the wheel the more torque it takes to get them moving. As the flywheel gets lighter the engine looses less energy trying to spin it and that get's passed along to the wheels. I can see maybe at idle or crusing speeds where it might require slightly more power to maintain speed since you won't have as much kinetic energy to keep the crank moving. But I wouldn't think that would apply under heavy accerlation. Of course it's been a long time since i took physics so tell me why I'm wrong :)

[Whistler225]

torque and hp are inversely proportional. So the more hp you have, the less torque (unless you also alter your gearing). So what you kind of need to decide is, do you want more speed, or better acceleration? It's actually a bit more complicated than that though. Different gear ratios will give you more torque at different rpm ranges and in different gears. That's why the same car can perform differently depending on how it's gearing is set up.

You can think of horsepower and torque in these terms: horsepower is how fast your machine can go. Torque is the inevitability of the "twist" between your engine, transmission, drive gear, and wheels. That's why big trucks can haul such heavy loads, but they don't go very fast. They have alot of torque, but not much hp (comparitively).

That's also why a lighter flywheel gives you more hp, and less torque. A lighter flywheel makes it easier for the engine to turn your transmission, but the lack of mass reduces the inevitability of the rotation.

If you're just looking to go a little faster, the usual bolt-ons should be sufficient for you. You shouldn't need a performance flywheel or clutch unless you plan to race the car. One thing you can do fairly easily to boost your speed is reduce your car's weight by removing unnecessary interior items....this mod is also free, but it tends to reduce your personal comfort as well.

Hopefully some of that made sense....and hopefully some of it was even right lol.....

[HostileJava]

torque and hp are inversely proportional

Like I said before, It's been a LONG time since Physics class, but isn't HP a function of torque?

[SteveDX89]

HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5252

Therefore, torque and hp are not inversely proportional. HP is a factor of torque. The reason big rigs have much more torque than hp is because the engines don't turn a lot of RPMs. I'd be surprised if the redline is anywhere over 3000-4000. Why do you think they have 18 speed transmissions and when one is accelerating next to you, you can hear them shift every second or 2?

[Whistler225]

most of the big trucks I drove redlined at about 2700 rpms.
Sorry....apparently I mispoke. Torque and speed are inversely proprtional.

from the following link:http://www.procivic.com/pages-horsepower_torque/index.html

The Transmission Effect
Now comes the tricky part: the transmission. The fact that our engines cannot rev indefinitely means we must have transmissions to allow our wheels to keep spinning faster while keeping the revs under redline. A transmission essentially makes engine torque meaningless because it can multiple your flywheel torque to any amount it pleases, and is only limited by physical gear size. This is because gears can be arranged to increase or decrease their lever-arms and thus change the final torque output.

However, don't go out and buy yourself a giant gear set just yet: transmissions cannot amplify horsepower. This would violate the law of conservation of energy and change the world as we know it. Instead, as we increase the torque output for a certain gear, we decrease the maximum speed that we can have in that gear. Would you want your Civic to have 400 lb-ft of torque in 1st gear but only be able to go 8 mph in that gear? Probably not. The opposite is also true; as you decrease the torque output of a certain gear, you increase maximum speed, assuming you can reach it. That is the main reason why you accelerate slower in higher gears.

[SteveDX89]

most of the big trucks I drove redlined at about 2700 rpms.
and yes, they are inversely proportional, according to Dodge's 4WD school I went to a few years back. To be honest, I don't remember how he explained it to us....I'll see if I can find it.

:rolleyes: When you see that formula, what could possibly make you think they are inverses? An inverse would require division, not multiplication.

Ok, here's how to prove it to you.
B16 = 160 hp @ 7600, 111 lb-ft @ 7000

HP = (111 * 7600) / 5252
HP = 160

If I add 10 lb-ft, my hp jumps to 175.

[HostileJava]

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

This seems to be a good read on the subject although it doesn't address the flywheel issue.


most of the big trucks I drove redlined at about 2700 rpms.
and yes, they are inversely proportional, according to Dodge's 4WD school I went to a few years back. To be honest, I don't remember how he explained it to us....I'll see if I can find it.

Perhaps your thinking all other things being equal altering the gear ratio will either result in more hp and less torque or more torque and less hp at any given rpm?

[Whistler225]

I actually edited that post since you quoted it.

However, I do find it interesting that below 5252 rpm, torque will always be higher than hp, and above 5252, hp will always be higher....

[gfrg88]

i always thought a lighter flywheel wouldnt give you any hp or tq, it just lets you get to you max hp a lot faster. isnt that how it works????

[HostileJava]

i always thought a lighter flywheel wouldnt give you any hp or tq, it just lets you get to you max hp a lot faster. isnt that how it works????

Any time you make changes to the drivechain you effect hp/tq at the wheels.

[SteveDX89]

However, I do find it interesting that below 5252 rpm, torque will always be higher than hp, and above 5252, hp will always be higher....

Well, that's just how the formula works out.

[crazykamper]

wow, ok. so im starting to rethink about puttin on a lighter flywheel. cause i dont want the torque to go down in numbers, i would love the car to accelerate and be able to go faster on freeway (lol) but i dont want to decrease take off speed!!

[gfrg88]

i dont think it decreases any speed, it makes it rev a lot faster.

[bobafett]

lol this thread is cool. :)

obviously you guys dont need lightened flywheels. :D if you did you would already have one and be telling us if you like the effects.

i have only driven 50 miles on mine, but i like it so far.

[sinisterfuzzy]

If you're just looking to go a little faster, the usual bolt-ons should be sufficient for you.

if you look at my plans for my car, which are basically bolt-ons, not sure if the Weber 38, Cam Regrind, and Port and Polish count but how much faster would i be goin?

[Whistler225]

hell, the cam regrind is far from a bolt-on if you ask me....so is a port and polish. Those are both relatively extensive upgrades. To be honest, I have no clue how much faster you'll be going, but it sounds like you will definitely see a good performance increase.

You want to know who to ask about what sort of gains to expect, A20A1 would be the one to go to. Mike really knows her stuff. You'll need to know some specs on your upgrades though.

[bobafett]

wtf man mike is not a HER he is a HIM.

fucking shit this forum somtimes///////

* im jjust bitter cause my head gasket is still leaking, ignore me pls. :)

[Whistler225]

damn.....now I'm really confused lol.....someone refered to him as a girl in the Marketplace feedback forum. His sig also made me wonder.

hey no biggie....Hell, when I thought Mike was a girl I was even more impressed by how much he knew about this stuff.:jaw:

[Whistler225]

:D I am happy to say that A20A1 is a great person to buy stuff from. She is very nice, helpful and has great deals. Not to mention the product was quickly shipped to my house with in a matter of 2-3days and that's awesome. I would highly recommend people to buy from her, I know I will definitly do business with her sometime in the future. She is also a very trust worthy girl, so you don't ever have to worry about her ripping you off.... She's the best... definitly a great gal... Thanks MIke... Lataz
:super: :bow: :D.:wtf:

[bobafett]

ok so hes fucking wrong too.... lol...

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[Whistler225]

lol....figures

[rjudgey]

would be funny if it were true maybe it is who knows? Hey Mike which way you swinging these days ;0)
Anyways
At least your doing this right, no point doing your mods by themselves, you get the most benefit and cost saving from doing them all at once as you will only have to pay once to get the carb tuned!!

With Headers, Exhaust, flowed head with a little skimmed off and inlet manifold matched, Re-jetted Weber 38/38, stage 2 camshaft from Colt, revamped ignition. Do you have Cat or no Cat?

With Cat i'd estimate to be around 130-140bhp roughly (depends on quality of headwork)
Without Cat i'd estimate to be around 140-150bhp roughly (depends on quality of headwork)

Next mod to be worth doing would be new Honda A20A3/4 pistons with some quality rings gapped by hand, wiht the higher CR and better compression from the new rings and smaller ring end gaps expect to see around 10bhp on top.

Next mod Twin Weber 45's expect to see 180-200bhp.

Next mod Big valve conversion more headwork bigger camshaft 210-230bhp

First 150bhp is relatively cheap after that bills start getting more and more expensive 7 years of Research and blowing engines up and re-building has cost me well in excess of 5 figures and thats in pounds not dollars!! Now ii've run out of reseraching power gains on ET/A20 series i'm playing around with B20A's which is looking even more promising although a lot of lessons learned on ET/A20 have been carried over to modding B20A!! So can't wait to try a new flowed head with bigger valves on B20A it's gonna fly baby!!

[alljacksrides]

the clutchnet dual diaphram pressure plate and 6 puck sprung hub will handle anything you can throw at it... and i mean ANYTHING. I run that clutch with an 8lb aasco aluminum flywheel and love that combo. If you want the car to be streetable get the sprung hub, the unsprung hub is a bitch to drive, i hated mine. Clutchnet>*

Have you used this setup with a different flywheel?