a20a3 in a 78 civic!!!

[wrxdriver99]

:wtf: I've decided to undertake a good' r
Thats right, I'm going to stuff an 88 accord LXi engine and 5peed into a 1978 honda civic. I'm also doing a complete tear down, repaint, and rebuild on the entire car. I'm going custom and sleek. no chrome, and nothing is going to stick out more than 2 1/2 inches(the bumpers). I've already got the entire car stripped and cleaned out, now for the body work!!
I'm interested in any info on the engine and transmision regarding performance and look goodies that is out there. I may be a newbie on this forum, but not in the garage, so I'll try to help if you have any questions on pre-90s hondas and nissans.
thanx

[86AccordLxi]

You got me scared for a second...a20a1 is the carbed a20 and I was thinking, "who the hell would want to swap that in?" lol. a20a3 is the lxi motor.

Member phydeaux has an a20 swapped into this 2g Accord, so he might be your best resource, though I have no clue how similar the 2g is.

Anyhow, sounds like quite the project! Keep us posted! And welcome to 3geez!

Alex

[wrxdriver99]

thanks for the info, I learned somthing new today!!! I'm going to have lots of fun with this one!

[A20A1]

Remember that one guy, I think he worked for KMS or was KMS with the old school civic with the Quad bike carbs and A20motor.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/driverside34.jpg

[wrxdriver99]

that pick you have is of an 80-83 civic but those are some mean flares

hmmm????? where can I find some?

[A20A1]

Is this still 80's?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/civic011.jpg

[mykwikcoupe]

actually sorry to burst your bubble but ive got a 78 1200. id imagine your is. it may be the cvcc which would be better as the engine bay is 3 inchers longer. however the baqd news, the a20a is a taller motot than most hondas. it doesnt have the clearance from lower crossbraces to hood. It would take some major mods to work.

Look at 1stgencivic.com and i think 77civic.com is the other. It used to be civic1200.com but they closed down that site. Good luck and if you need anymore info Im a wealth of knowledge. 4 wheels disc brakes with 2nd gen prelude stuff. changed from 4x120 to 4x100. Ive got lots of performance stuff if you want to explore the biuldup of a 1200. My plan was a good 120hp very streetable with the stock 1200 block. Tops was 140-150 big cam barly idle

[A20A1]

even with it's 15 degree tilt it still is too tall?

[wrxdriver99]

Is this still 80's?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/civic011.jpg
yes thats an 80-83 S type... very nice

[mykwikcoupe]

yes it is actually. the nose on the 1200 is like 3.5 inches too short to fit the a20a in. I measured from crossbarace to straight edge across the fenders and did a little math. From there i looked at the accord and civic from the bottom and tried to find ways to put the a20a in. Ive got enough of them here. It was my prefered choice as well. The weight would plant like trees and the available powwer along with install time would make it a prime choice but unless you want to make a hood for it it weont work

[A20A1]

I would bet on the raised hood line... vroom vroom :)

[carotman]

Hehe. I saw a couple of 2G civics with A series in racing events.... this means a JDM B20A would fit in there too. :D

[HostileJava]

I would bet on the raised hood line... vroom vroom :)


Yeah, sounds like a good excuse for a nice cowl induction like hood.

[wrxdriver99]

well.... for two hundred bucks and a damn good excuse to break out the welder I'm going to try it out. I thought about that Focuz intake manifold I sawin another thread and I thin k I can shorten the runners and then build some new crossmembers and c-notch the frame rails as needed. when I get the guinae pig motor out and stripped down I'll do some math and figure out where to cut and weld and add/remove mounts etc.

P.s. I've takken a couple of pics, but I'm not permited to post attachments so visit http://photos.yahoo.com/wrxdriver99. to see what I've done so far

[HostileJava]

No photos are available

Sorry, wrxdriver99 has not enabled any public albums in their account.

[wrxdriver99]

sorry, I fixed it, you can view them now. I will add more as I get them

[AccordEpicenter]

just remember, boost is your friend. This sounds like a way cool project too!!

[HostileJava]

http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/446bb63czd6b5e2cd/mail/__sr_/b130re2.jpg?phQc8aEBynVkTWrd

http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/446bb63czd6b5e2cd/mail/__sr_/f28bre2.jpg?ph4r8aEBzaSO91u.

http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/446bb63czd6b5e2cd/mail/__sr_/fcc0re2.jpg?ph4r8aEBz6vHUGRA

http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/446bb63czd6b5e2cd/mail/__sr_/4087re2.jpg?ph4r8aEBn1swPWHc

http://f7.yahoofs.com/users/446bb63czd6b5e2cd/mail/__sr_/8a5bre2.jpg?ph4r8aEB_Elo7OIM

Do those work for everyone?

[AccordEpicenter]

yes

[A20A1]

Just stick the motor in the back :)

[AccordEpicenter]

you should paint it burnt orange and call it the fez

[lostforawhile]

it can be done,I put one in an 81, I also put a legend v6 in one,don't ask,I killed a marriage on that one. you would do better using a carbed engine and running webbers,just for the sake of simplicity. these cars were pretty quick even with the 60 horsepower 1500 in the 81 dx, they will fly with the 120a carbed set up with webbers. be very careful of the sway bar,front control arm locator bar, check it over for cracks and if possible find something heavier to replace it. if it snaps,and i've had several do that, one of your wheels will slam backwards into the rear of the wheel well and lock. I was almost killed when I had one do this.

[speedpenguin]

Wow, I wanna hear mor about this!

[mykwikcoupe]

well Im in ewith a cross on carotman and the other guys thoughts. I have a couple b20as bhere and was hoping to go b20a with dual sidedfrats. Like I said though it proved to be too much for me. If you do get it all fabbed up. Put a 1/2 piece of steel around both front crossmembers for support of the engine and stuff and Ill buy one.

As far as suspension goes I run a whitline rear bar and no front and it works killer. the weight would only improve

[lostforawhile]

it can be done in a seventy eight, back in 93 I knew a guy who had a shop in alpharetta GA and one of his buddies had a turboed a20 in a seventy eight, you could smoke the tires until they blew out if you wanted too. painted that awful seventies tripping orange too. you have to watch how much power you run though, the v6 in the eighty one was too much for that superlight chassis and I had a terrible time with traction, even accelerating from a light was a pain. the seventie eight was awesome though. if you remember the first police academy movie,when they stole the civic, that was a STOCK!!! one that was flying around corners like that.

[1983Civicracer]

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4789/motor9tx.jpgHello,
I am new to the site as I just found it tonight. I own the blue 1983 Civic with the A20A1 motor pictured in the above post by the administrator A20A1. I was looking around the web trying to find info out on my 1983 Civic with an 1989 Accord motor and transmission and to my total suprise I find a picture of my car that is in my garage. Cool Site, I like it already.
I know my Civic is a later generation than yours but if I can send you any digital pictures or anything for what has been done to my car I would be happy too. I don't have much history of how it was done with mine. Tracking down the history for this car has been tough. I think this site will help me though. The Civic sites I have joined and searched on have been much less help than I have found here in just the last few hours.
Paul

[A20A1]

Sure Snap away. :) we like clear photos of any custom work done to the motor... in this case the most of whats on the motor was custom last time we saw it.

[wrxdriver99]

Hi guys,
there has been some great info shared in this thread, I really apreciate it!
I.ve been busy for a few days and havent' done any work on the car, but I have a friend that hooked me up with a 5 horse electric motor for my compressor and I installed it on friday. now I'm ready to go nuts on the body work and motor/trany install. I'm trading an old motor bike and the 10 horse gas motor that was on my compresor to another friend for a mig welder later this week, so... Then I can do the power sunroof and frame work, and.... and.... and....

[mykwikcoupe]

wow, keep me informed. I curious where this is going. how about some good before pics too see hwere abouts your starting.

[wrxdriver99]

to see some starting pics click on the link at the bottom of my signature

[speedpenguin]

Holy shit :O you stripped that thing good. I hope you have everything organized or that's going to a serious pain in the ass to put back together.

[wrxdriver99]

Actually its more basic than I'm used to, but I did label the wwiring harnesses and I kept similar parts together, one box for brake stuff, one for door stuff, one for interior stuff, etc. Its 7:30 am and I have the entire day to work on It lets see what I can accomplish. I'll borrow my friends digital camera again and post some new pics in my link under my signature either tonight or tomorrow. I'm so excited!!

[mykwikcoupe]

yeah hardest part is finding the parts afterwards. theres like 2 options that require more than a bolt and all parts are pretty self explainitory. Ive got a ton of parts, performance and otherwise. i was going to do a full rebiuld on mine but cant find a few nneeded parts so Im thinking i wont.

Hows your weatherstripping. you know there isnt any new kits on the planet right without going custom

[86lxinva]

man i cant wait till its done!

[wrxdriver99]

Hows your weatherstripping. you know there isnt any new kits on the planet right without going custom



I used to work for a work truck body builder and they have all sorts of door and edge rubber. The only two problems I forsee is the windshield rubber and the door seal rubber that wraps all the way around. The windshield was just replaced last year using the original rubber which they kindly URETHANED in so... I wrecked both the window and the rubber getting them out for the body work.
The door rubber I was going to steal out of my 82 hatch and try to modify, but I'm not holding my breath. I talked to my local honda parts guy and he told me to check out thehondapartsstore.com , where it is listed but i never checked the availability.

[wrxdriver99]

Ive got a ton of parts, performance and otherwise.


What kind of stufff you got???? selling any of it?? mags perhaps?? windshield rubber?? coilovers???:cheers:

[Ichiban]

I just destroyed my windshield on the 82 hatch last week along with the trim and all the clips that they urethaned to everything else...somehow the freaking thing still leaked. I'm interested in any source for new door gaskets and bits and bobbles though.

[mykwikcoupe]

ive got a s&s header from the last group buy, dual carb side draft setup from eurocarb made to oscar jacksons original specs with mikuni solex pph36's, I just bought a setup for a custom rear crossmemebr with modified arms with bearings instead of bushings(should be uber-trick). the list goes on, unfortunaly the suspension was one fo the reasons I stopped going for performance and the lack of parts is why i stopped going for original spec. Im not sure just yet but im sure itll end up as a street/strip racer eventually with the stock 1200 biult up to a 1441 (1300 crank, 1200 rods, goldwing pistons and eb3 head, os valves, webcam, Geaderm, inake exhaust has been proven to 130-150hp at the hweels. this si the main reason i didnt go a20a, weight, cost of fabwork and overall gain

[wrxdriver99]

one of the reasons I narrowed down my list of posible engines to include the A20A3 was the horspower to torque ratio. They are pretty much even, that makes for a nice car to drive around the city. you don't need to be driving around at 6000 rpm to get any power and down shifting two gears just to merge or pass on the hiway. I don't know how much my civic wieghs, but I'll bet its almost half as much as a third gen accord.

[wrxdriver99]

not a whole lot done since last time, but here's a few more pics to look at

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/wrxdriver99/my_photos

[wrxdriver99]

where do I start...

Well I got working on my hatch opening. I welded the seams at the bottom of the opening then filled and sanded and filled and sanded and... untill I got it just right. I want everything about this car smooth. I ground all the paint off the seams where all the spot welds are and hammered them as smooth as posible, then filled and sanded untill smooth. After that I sprayed the affected places with rust inhibitor and/or primer and then with paintable rocker guard.
I used the rocker guard under the rear chrome bits so that hopefully chafing won't lead to rust. the rocker guard overspray will be sanded off the visible body surfaces, with the exception of the rocker panels, to help with the smoothness of the car. I will be using it around the rear window openings though.
I love this little car. just had to write that
I had a couple of L.E.D. strips laying around so I decided to put in a recessed third brake light. I cut out the roof for metal to use for the recess. I carefuly measured somewherre near centre of the roof and using my handy nibler and my even more handy die grinder made a hole. then I made the recess and test fit it. then I made a bigger hole and welded it in. then more fibre glass and filler and sanding. still more to do, but I'll wait till I put in the sun roof
The minor rust on the rear of the car wont be to hard to fix, I just havent decided what to do on the rear valance ends. I think I will clean off all the paint off both sides right the way accross and fibre glass a couple of layers on both sides for extra strength and corrosion resistance.
I'm sorry this is so long, but I thought you guys would want details. If there are some questions or coments or free stuff out there, let me know.

Happy modifying

[1983Civicracer]

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8729/frontviewofmotor2ej.jpg



Hello again all,
Above pictured is my 1983 Civic hatchback with an A20A1 motor swap. As I said in my ealier post this is the same car that was posted earlier by A20A1 with the motorcycle carbs.

[wrxdriver99]

hey, 1983civicracer, Do youthink you could take some detail shots of the motor mounts, frame work, cross member, rad, etc??? that would be awsome!!! you can email me them directly or post them, whichever you like.
I realize this is a different car than I have, but I would like to see if my Ideas are similar to others'.
I noticed the center support for the rad support is out, and the hinges have been removed and replaced with pins on all four corners.
also what is the tubbing brace on the passenger side for??

[1983Civicracer]

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5291/sideviewofmotor8lu.jpghttp://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4789/motor9tx.jpghttp://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8729/frontviewofmotor2ej.jpg
I will try and take some more detailed pictures like you asked for tomorrow morning and post tomorrow night. I am working quite a bit tomorrow so I may not be able to get to post it until Friday evening. They are coming though. The bar on the passenger side of the engine bay is part of the roll cage for the car. It has nothing to do with the swap. Talk to you soon.

Paul

[speedpenguin]

That's friggin awesome!

[mkymonkey]

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4789/motor9tx.jpg
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5291/sideviewofmotor8lu.jpg
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8729/frontviewofmotor2ej.jpg


maybe posting the pics right would help. thats my contribution to this thread lol

[wrxdriver99]

Sorry 83civicracer, I totaly forgot to leave my email address. here it is
[email protected].

I'm liking your car very much. things that are original and custom realy turn my crank. I cant wait to get mine up and going . I found a thread on another forum to build your own body kit. I'm going to look at some other types of kits and start some prelimanary sketches and Ideas.

[1983Civicracer]

The A20A1 in my Civic to answer CKE was built by John Kaufman of KMS several years ago to be raced in the SCCA. I bought the car from a guy in St Cloud Florida who just kind of played with it a little like I have done.

The engine I am told from the previous owner is from a 2.0 liter 1988 Prelude.

The block has been sleved, 13 1/2 to one Weisco pistons were used (Racing Fuel Only), extensive headwork with titanium retainers and heavy porting, MSD 6A ignition system, High Lift Camshaft (I don't know what the specs are? It likes 8,000 RPM though), Header, and of course the 4 Mikuni Motorcycle carbs. Supposedly the engine dyno"d out at 320 Horsepower. I really doubt that power figure though. The car is plenty strong, don"t get me wrong, but that figure is likely about 100 Horsepower too high. It does spin the 9 inch drag slicks in 3rd gear though?

My plans with the car are to drag race it locally as time and money permits. I would love to autocross it as there is a great club in my local area but I cannot for the life of me find an appropriate LSD or Quaife to fit the transmission (E2Q6).

Does anyone know of a transmission that will fit the A20A1 motor that you can get a Quaife for???? The car has a welded differential now which works well for the dragstrip, but not for the Autocross course.

Thanks

Paul

[wrxdriver99]

I'm an information junkie!!! you guys rock. I have learned so much, it annoys my wife to no end. haha

[wrxdriver99]

well I have one seriously smashed 88 accord LXi sitting in my driveway waiting to be stripped of everything possibly useful for the civic. Now to find some time....

I even sot some upgrade parts for my air compressor to make it more efficient to do the work. I'm so excited.

Oooo, I got my red type R Honda badges, and my jdm hello kitty/mugen badge(its my wifes car). I'm still excited. I also picked up a nice set of older 14" Enkei aluminum rims for a hundred bucks

More pics and progress soon

[wrxdriver99]

well mostly.... it was more harder than I thought it would be, but it looks great. now I have to test fit the glass and motor assembly, and start on the body work. there are pics of the install on my link

[wrxdriver99]

well heres a little bump for my thread. I've been working somewhat steady on my car over the last two months and here's what I've got done;
-speedo, Tach, switches and dash wiring converted into original civic dash
-roof section, sunroof and roof bodywork nearing completion
-drip rails, corner lenses, antenna, chrome trim shaved
-three piece mid-wing preliminary constuction complete
-most of the bodywork on the shell is done. started the rock guard.
-Interior stripped, cleaned, primed and basecoat painted

-Engine bay;
*Three of four engine mounts made(top driverside left)
*4 of 5 notches complete(front and rear crossmembers, and both framerails) one more for top driverside to do
*had extra serpentine and vbelt grooves machined off pulley(looks super cool)

things are coming together nicley
I have posted some new pics in my link at the bottom of the page.

[speedpenguin]

Got pics?

[87lxiaccord]

that civic looks awesome i had to show my mom she used to have one back in the 80s but it was brown i almost cried when i saw that poor accord

[wrxdriver99]

Well I've done some more work on the civic and now have pics of the engine in on the new custom mounts and the wiring is almost complete.
I also just today Sprayed the first shot of primer on the body
Click on the link in my sig and take a look

[lostforawhile]

you'll be in for a shock when you see how fast that thing is,it might be closer to 300 with that setup,in the early nineties this was a popular swap for that motor in that car. I used to have a friend who raced them and I've seen several of them in that configuration.

[wrxdriver99]

you'll be in for a shock when you see how fast that thing is,it might be closer to 300 with that setup
I've seen pop cans that weigh more than this car, and I can squish a pop can pretty easy. With out the doors and fenders and motor I can pic up any side or end of the car effortlessly. I bet with all the stuff back in the car including the bigger motor it'll still only weigh 1500 lbs or less. 300 clicks an hour in a car that weighs 1500 lbs would be scary indeed

[wrxdriver99]

some more progress pics in my link.
engine is in now and final electrical work and assembly of hoses, cables, etc. now under way. I've had it turning over already and the lights, wipers etc all work. also I redid the dash as well. I completely stripped it, cleaned it and repainted it and put it all back together.

[Hazwan]

Nice! I like what you did to the dash

[wrxdriver99]

So I've been a busy little beaver....
The civic now runs, very short amounts of time with no rad and all, but runs.
The shifter linkage, fuel system, brake system, engine electrical system, and heater hoses are all hooked up.
I need to finish the rad support, the axles, and the throttle cable to be able to move it under its own power. they'll be done by the end of this weekend for sure.
I also intend to have the rest of the body work on the shell done and primed as well. unfortunately it will be staying in primer for the rest of the winter, so I will be re-assembling the civic in primer.
there are new pics in my link in my sig at the bottom. any questions please feel free to ask. I can take some extra pics of things(if possible) if you like

[RamThis]

Looks like I'm not the only one who did a sunroof-ectomy and transplant lol. Looks like we went about it two different ways though. Looks awesome!!

[Civic Accord Honda]

man that car looks awesome i love old hondas that are geting fixed up :)
have you joined 1stgencivic.com ? if not you really should i am a member there but have not loged on in a long time :(

[wrxdriver99]

so I got it Running, and made the axles, and the rad support and everything, thought it was ready to go, then when I went to move it, it started to squeal.
I can put it into gear and it moves in both directions and when I put into neutral it goes away after a minute, but if I just push in the clutch and leave it in gear it doesn't stop squealing. Pilot bearing maybe???
Also, It never made any noise before I took out the motor and transmission, and I havent separated the transmission from the motor(just a straight swap into the civic).
I've put 2 litres(quarts) of the recomended oil into the transmission and will need to top up the remainder after driving it a bit.
I did however put it into gear to tighten up the axle nut a bit, while it was up in the air, I've doen this on numerous other cars before with no problem. There was no noises or anything
I'm somewhat perplexed. are these very strong transmissions???? or did I wreck something tightening the nut

[Selfmindead]

That civic looks like its going to be alot of fun when you have it all sorted!

[speedpenguin]

Dude, you're almost done! Post up some pics.

Sorry, I can't help you. It may just be old engine noise. My car wuould make noise for a couple minutes until it started to warm up.

[1983Civicracer]

If anyone is interested I am selling my 1983 Civic Racecar on E-bay right now. It has the A-20 Race motor as pictured with the motorcycle carbs. It would slip right into an 87-89 accord and the transmission has the shorter Integra gearing. Anyone interested? If so look up 1983 Civic in the general search section of e-bay. It runs terrific.

[Legend_master]

If anyone is interested I am selling my 1983 Civic Racecar on E-bay right now. It has the A-20 Race motor as pictured with the motorcycle carbs. It would slip right into an 87-89 accord and the transmission has the shorter Integra gearing. Anyone interested? If so look up 1983 Civic in the general search section of e-bay. It runs terrific.


You should post a thread in the market place for that car. Did it really make 320HP all motor? that is amazing.

EDIT: I went ahead and made a thread for you (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=725926#post725926)

[MessyHonda]

man that is some serious power...that thing can run 13s i bet

[1983Civicracer]

Legend Master,
Thank you for the help with the Link, you are great! As far as if it actually producing 320 HP I am skeptical myself. I called the builder of the car John Kaufman of Kaufman Motor Sports in Atlanta and he confirmed it. It sounds a bit to good to be true. It is a VERY strong motor though.
Thanks again!
Paul

[Legend_master]

Legend Master,
Thank you for the help with the Link, you are great! As far as if it actually producing 320 HP I am skeptical myself. I called the builder of the car John Kaufman of Kaufman Motor Sports in Atlanta and he confirmed it. It sounds a bit to good to be true. It is a VERY strong motor though.
Thanks again!
Paul


awesome, if you account for the 15-20% drop between crank and wheels that would calculate to about 256 to the wheels. If it is making those kinds of numbers or anything close to that with the weight of that chassis, i bet it is fun as hell to drive.

[lostforawhile]

update on this old thread, I had found a picture of the 78 with the a20 my scanner is broke though, they changed the oil system to a dry sump and tilted the motor backwards for clearance,think rotated on it's axis to the wheels. thats the secret to getting the dam thing in the car. I'm sure the oil return system from the head to the pan was modified a lot too,the rest of the oiling system is pressurized so it doesn't care about the angle. figure on getting rid of the oil pan and rotating the engine.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Damn... I have never seen this thread before... good thing you bumped it lost, reminded me of this car... I am pretty sure it is the OP's car as I can't see there being two of these in Alberta..

Saw this about a month and a half back at a huge outdoor car show... wierded me out, I saw and had to do a double take... Here are a couple pics I snapped.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8064/img4629.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6886/img4630v.jpg

[lostforawhile]

what they did on the one i was talking about was run the a20 with the four carbs and ran a curved pipe for each port to keep the carbs level. the egine is tilted back and the pipes curve around to the ports

[Civic Accord Honda]

i think hes on here i dont remember his username and he hasent logged in since like 2006 but he used to have a couple 3geez... looks like he repainted it but its the only one i know of with a a20a3 on 1stgencivic