Extra holes in the front beam

[carotman]

Well Today I noticed that there are 2 extra holes in the front beam where the motor mount goes. These holes aren't used by the motor mount.

I noticed that the rear mount will bolt up right there but it's not high enough to be used as a proper engine mount

Anyone knows what these are for?

I'm pretty sure it's related to #4 in the picture which seems to be an insulator from what honda says.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/13se00_j35.gif

[carotman]

Ok... I found something INTERESTING by browsing the JDM parts catalog

The rear mount can be used as a front mount too

Engine mount (Big picture) (http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/personal_site/tech/front_mount.gif)

The bracket is not the same however.

The part number is 50825-SE0-930 and didn't match here.

This would solve my engine mount problems. No more hydro mount!!!!!

[Swap_File]

Edit: You beat me to posting the big picture. :)

I just ordered a new set of mounts, they should be here early next week. I can take measurements from them if you want. Also, My current engine is pulled, I have the extra junk engine, I have an extra front crossmember sitting around, and my old mounts if you need measurements from any of that.

[carotman]

I'll just order the bracket from honda.co.nz (They provide an excellent service so far)

I know that the carb motors use a similar bracket but I'm sure it's not the right one. The carb front engine mount is taller than the rear mount. Also, the fact that the part number doesn't cross match here is a good indication. Hmmm maybe I could install a sleeve on the rear mount....

Edit:

Why sell the insulator when you don't even sell the bracket that goes with it.... I'm sure it won't be available. Lol

[Swap_File]

I checked, and the rear mount's bolt is too short to fit through the stock front bracket. There is no thread sticking out to put a nut on.

[thegreatdane]

Well I'll be damned... Great discovery!

The part number you provided is just for the 86-87 front engine bracket, look here:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9254/mounts3mn.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mounts3mn.jpg)


So all you need then would be the insulator thingy, if you even do need that.

[thegreatdane]

Aparantly it's a heat insulator that nr. 4
All the parts exists in the EDM parts catalogue.

[carotman]

Too bad the part number doesn't exist here. I'll call the dealer tomorrow and see if they have anything that looks like this. The heat insulator is available...

I found this when I typed the part number in google.

http://www.hondaworld.ru/honda_details_car_3079_spare_B__4700_category_6.ht m

I hope it's the correct bracket... There is another bracket with part number 50825-SE0-000 that has the same drawing. Hard to tell from this picture.

I noticed that www.slhondaparts.com doesn't list parts for our Accord (onle post 1990). This may be why I couldn't find the bracket number. I will definetly give a ring to the local dealer this morning.

[carotman]

Well, cars with bracket # 50825-SE0-000 don't list the hydro mount as being available while the ones with 50825-SE0-930 do....

I think I got the good one here :D

http://www.hondaworld.ru/honda_details_car_3429_spare_B__4700_category_6.ht m

50825-SE0-000 would be the correct one.

[carotman]

Errr, I just called the dealer and it turns out that none of the part numbers will match in Canada... Weird thing. The one I currently have on my car is 50825-SE0-A00.

I'll order the '000' bracket and we'll see

Dane, can you check at your Honda dealer (or junkyard) in denmark if some of the cars have the non hydro mount on them?

[AccordEpicenter]

i have some kind of vibration damper bolted to the front beam. My car was also a factory auto car, maybe that is a difference?

[bobafett]

i figured that was some BS for the auto tranny cars. i just removed mine, damn thing weighed like 5 lbs. :) its in the garbage now!

[thegreatdane]

Errr, I just called the dealer and it turns out that none of the part numbers will match in Canada... Weird thing. The one I currently have on my car is 50825-SE0-A00.
I'll order the '000' bracket and we'll see
Dane, can you check at your Honda dealer (or junkyard) in denmark if some of the cars have the non hydro mount on them?

SLautoparts doesnt list the 3rd gen accord anymore but you can still look up the part numbers for it.

I do seem to remember having heard, read about or handled a non hydraulic front mount, I just dont think that was in the shape of a rear mount...
I dont think you need to order any bracket though, just try using the one you have now together with a rear mount. Because the cast iron bracket and the old model sheet metal bracket can be interchanged (almost), the only difference is that the small guide pin in the front mount doesnt have the same position.

[carotman]

Well, yes and no. The front mount has different height between the cast and steel bracket. Even the auto front mount on some years is taller. The stud on the mount is also different.

I checked everything and the non hydro mount is 1 inch shorter than the hydro mount. This would mean the bracket is different

[thegreatdane]

Hmmm, maybe it's different in the usdm cars, because i swapped around those brackets at one time and I'm 85% sure there was no height difference, but yea not a 100% sure lol. And that stud thing you're saying was the guide pin i was talking about.

I might try taking a look at the brackets i have laying around if i havent thrown them away yet.

[AccordEpicenter]

this is very interesting

[carotman]

Well, it seems that this bracket is not available anymore :wtf: I guess they upgraded to the hydro mount... DAMN!

:thumbdn:

I'll have to either find a used bracket or fabricate one. :rant:

[LXlimited]

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/13se00_j35.gif[/QUOTE]
Does anyone know what #1(damper) is supposed to do? I have to tighten mines because the bolt was so loose. Does any of you guys have to do this?

[forrest89sei]

They still have stuff for our cars on SL Honda you just have to type the year:

1986
http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse.asp?Model=ACCORD&Year=1986
1987
http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse.asp?Model=ACCORD&Year=1987
1988
http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse.asp?Model=ACCORD&Year=1988
1989
http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse.asp?Model=ACCORD&Year=1989

and where can I access the EDM & JDM Parts catalog?

and what dealers overseas can we order from online?


Thanks

[carotman]

Well, I got the bracket, I'll have to try this and see if it reduces the engine movement.

[TdotWarrior]

it probably should ^

[carotman]

A little update here

Well. I installed the "rear" mount in the front X-member yesterday. I was able to source a used bracket from thegreatdane (thanks again buddy) and it seems that it fits the B20A without a problem.

I filled the mount with eurethane and it's now extra stiff. There's not too much vibration in the car to my surprise. I can now break the tires loose when shifting in 2nd gear.

I don't know how long it will hold but it's definetly better than this shitty hydro mount. This is a nice mod you can do to your car! BTW, this front bracket is still available. The guys at Honda NZ were on something this day.

Pictures soon to come.

[lostforawhile]

so on usdm cars you can swap in a rear mount with no modifications? I'm confused here.

[guaynabo89]

A little update here
Well. I installed the "rear" mount in the front X-member yesterday. I was able to source a used bracket from thegreatdane (thanks again buddy) and it seems that it fits the B20A without a problem.
I filled the mount with eurethane and it's now extra stiff. There's not too much vibration in the car to my surprise. I can now break the tires loose when shifting in 2nd gear.
I don't know how long it will hold but it's definetly better than this shitty hydro mount. This is a nice mod you can do to your car! BTW, this front bracket is still available. The guys at Honda NZ were on something this day.
Pictures soon to come.

Did you try it at all before adding the fill to the mount to see what the differnce was?

so the stamped steel bracket for the front sits about an inch lower than the hydro mount?

Did you check to see if you could use the usdm stamped steel bracket with a rear mount? If the stud on the mount is long enough you might just be able to add a steel spacer. Dont you think?

And how much of a better design is the rear mount than the front hydro mount? They both seem kinda weak to me. Would it even beconsidered an upgrade? The only good thing I see is that you can add urethane to it like you did and wont break.


*EDIT*
Plus Ive been looking at those engine tourque dampers and I think Im going to get the Ingalls made one. Im going to try and mount it where the stock ones goes in our engines but there will definately be some bracket fabrication involved.

[Vanilla Sky]

why not just drain the hydro mount and fill it with epoxy?

[guaynabo89]

why not just drain the hydro mount and fill it with epoxy?


it still breaks

[Vanilla Sky]

ahh, ok.

i wish we had the mount inserts and options the civic/integra guys have...

[carotman]

Yup, the hydro mount still breaks even filled with hard stuff (learned the hard way)

I didn't try the rear mount as a stock unit. I didn't want to take any chances after breaking 2 front mounts. I can't say it will hold strong but it's worth a try.

You can't use the USDM metal bracket with that rear mount. However, you might be able to modify it to fit. Let's say you enlarge the bolt hole in the bracket so the nut can come right through it. Then, weld a pipe on it (like 1 inch) and plug the bottom end of that pipe shut. After, drill that same end so the mount's bolt can come through. This would make a perfect spacer.

I also thought about the ingalls damper. I was looking at the front X-beam and we all have this useless rubber thingie bolted there on the right side (held by 2 10mm bolts). I was thinking about fixing the damper there and bolting it somehow to the tranny bellhousing. This would give an extra strenght to the front mount and prevent excess movement.

[guaynabo89]

I also thought about the ingalls damper. I was looking at the front X-beam and we all have this useless rubber thingie bolted there on the right side (held by 2 10mm bolts). I was thinking about fixing the damper there and bolting it somehow to the tranny bellhousing. This would give an extra strenght to the front mount and prevent excess movement.

I also thought about mounting it there.

we'll see which way is better since I plan on going turbo so it might interfere with the plumbing.

[carotman]

Well guys.... BAD NEWS.

I broke the front mount on Saturday while doing the Road trip with the Toronto Accord Club. The mount broke in half while pulling hard on the Expressway on-ramp. I'm lucky it didn't break anything else!!!!!! I was in Niagara which is an 8 to 9 hour drive from where I live!!! I was able to make the trip back home (lucky me) but I just didn't enjoy the ride as much as I could have at this point... I hate how they designed that thing.

I guess that my round bushing mount idea is the next thing to try.

[Cheeseburger]

dam taht sucks, PICS lets see how it borke!

[Vanilla Sky]

wow. your car must be making good power to rip up mounts. and yes, i have seen your dynos.

yeah, you're going to have to go with something stronger. think they'd hold up better in urethane?

[lostforawhile]

the solid dog bone really helps,I broke three mounts in the front before I put it in. if your rear mount is worn it will also cause your front mount to work harder and break eaisier,also if your side mount is broke it can cause the front to break. If you break a lot of mounts carry a spare and a small bottle jack,it's pretty easy to change,also some wood blocks.

[carotman]

The mount basicaly broke in half. It was filled with Eurethane but still broke. That solid dogbone really helps I guess. I will thing of something to replace it or change the front mount design. The "bell" shape they have is just a bad thing for a mount that works in traction instead of compression.

I'll take pictures of that broken mount. I still have to remove it. The fun thing is that I was still able to to 75/80 mph on the highway without problem.

The rear and side mounts are filled with eurethane too so it might help a bit.

[Vanilla Sky]

what i meant was the entire thing cast in urethane. i had an idea a while back to make molds for the mounts and cast them in urethane. you can get bulk urethane from mcmaster-carr.

[carotman]

Well, I think I got rid of the problem for now. I installed the solid front mount I got from JohnnyO. The rest of the mounts are still stock (filled with Eurethane). It's surprisingly not too bad. I do get some vibration at like 1100 rpm and a bit at idle but it's comparable to when I had that rear mount in thr front (in good shape).

I guess I got rid of the problem for good. I'll definetly come up with something else in the future but for now, i'm not afraid to break this one anymore.

[L3G10N]

Well, I think I got rid of the problem for now. I installed the solid front mount I got from JohnnyO. The rest of the mounts are still stock (filled with Eurethane). It's surprisingly not too bad. I do get some vibration at like 1100 rpm and a bit at idle but it's comparable to when I had that rear mount in thr front (in good shape).
I guess I got rid of the problem for good. I'll definetly come up with something else in the future but for now, i'm not afraid to break this one anymore.


let us see!

[gfrg88]

Well, I think I got rid of the problem for now. I installed the solid front mount I got from JohnnyO. The rest of the mounts are still stock (filled with Eurethane). It's surprisingly not too bad. I do get some vibration at like 1100 rpm and a bit at idle but it's comparable to when I had that rear mount in thr front (in good shape).
I guess I got rid of the problem for good. I'll definetly come up with something else in the future but for now, i'm not afraid to break this one anymore.


did the solid mounts really work?? do you think with the solid mounts something might break since the engine isnt flexing like its supposed to :dunno: im trying to get some solid ones too cause i break mine too :(

[Xulfiqar]

A16 use the same mounts front and rear thats why its there

[acranox]

That "damper" is a harmonic damper. Basically vibrations transfer from the engine to the frame, the damper absorbs the vibrations to keep from the transfering to the body. It reduces noise and vibration in the car. You probably won't notice the difference if you remove it, but you might notice something. Usually at a specific RPM there can be resonance created, and the engineers add these dampers to reduce the effects. I'm sure the difference was more apparent when the car was new.

[thegreatdane]

Hey sorry to hear the mount didnt hold up! I was just about to say you should just go with a solid front mount but I see you already took care of that. In the future I'd also like to use a round rubber front mount like just about every other honda engine does.

[guaynabo89]

Bringin this one back.

Well I broke my front mount again and got another new one and decided to install one of those engine tourque dampers while I was at it.

Well the point being is that I didnt notice right away is that the new front mount I got made the engine sit a little higher on the front makign it lean towards the drivers side. I figured there was probably a difference between the 86-87 mount and the 88-89 mount since the 88-89 use a cast bracket compared to the 86-87 stamped steel one. I was going to take my recently purchased front mount back to the store to compare to see if the height thing was corrct between the different years. Well it came to me and remmembered this thread and since I had and extra rear mount laying around for some reason I decided to try it to see if it fit.

To my surprise it fits perfectly there with the 86-87 stamped steel stock bracket. the only benefit I can see from this is that this mount is stronger filled with poly than the hydro one filled with poly.

Anyway thought Id share.

[carotman]

In fact, even with the 86-87 bracket, it will sit a bit low. The ideal bracket is the A16A bracket.

[guaynabo89]

Well I placed a level on top of the valve cover and the engine does sit level. now i dont know if its leaning forward more. it looks the same but without the correct hydro front mount i dont have any reference point. when i return my front mount i ll hopefully get the correct one and be able to compare

[lostforawhile]

let me know if the level is the same,I want to change my front mount,but i have very little clearance between the air cleaner and hood scoop. I can rotate the air cleaner,but it will involve changing some of the bracketry

[guaynabo89]

In fact, even with the 86-87 bracket, it will sit a bit low. The ideal bracket is the A16A bracket.


Well I took my the rear mount and the front rear mount out to try and fill with some 3m window weld.

My car is a manual and the rear mount I used in the front is from an automaic. Well I put the two side by side and the auto rear mount is a little taller than the manual rear mount. Its only taller by like 1/8 of an inch or so but its definately taller. The manual rear mount also has a smaller hole in the middle.

Anyone know how long the window weld stuff take to dry?

Lostforawhile

I guess if you use an Automatic rear mount in the front it will make the engine sit level.

[gfrg88]

Well I took my the rear mount and the front rear mount out to try and fill with some 3m window weld.
My car is a manual and the rear mount I used in the front is from an automaic. Well I put the two side by side and the auto rear mount is a little taller than the manual rear mount. Its only taller by like 1/8 of an inch or so but its definately taller. The manual rear mount also has a smaller hole in the middle.
Anyone know how long the window weld stuff take to dry?
Lostforawhile
I guess if you use an Automatic rear mount in the front it will make the engine sit level.

i read somewhere(cant remember where) that its best to leave it drying over night, id say maybe like for ~8 hours :dunno:

[guaynabo89]

Well as of right now its been a full day and its still wet in the middle. I figure like 3/16ths on each side is dry while almost the whole middle( about 1 inch) is still wet.

Im going to leave it out in the sun all day today to see if that helps.