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2ndGenGuy
06-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Project 2G/A20 is my new project that I've been dying to do for years. Ever since I first found this forum a few years ago I've always wanted to do the Weber-powered A20 engine swap into my car. Finally the project has begun. I will be using this thread to update my progress as things go. Should be fun.

I got a loaner engine lift from the local AutoZone. You basically pay the full price of the unit, but you can use it for up to 90 days and get your full refund once you return it. I may just wind up keeping it for other projects if I decide I enjoy doing this sort of thing.

I was able to disconnect everything from the car, all 5 billion hoses and lines that run everywhere across the engine. Then some friends and I used the engine jack with some chain to pull it out of the car. We couldn't get the spindle nut off the axles, and since this car is going to the wrecking yard anyways, decided to just pull the axles out of the transmission end and leave them with the car.

Heres a couple pics of the beginning of the progress.

Here's my A20A1 that's going to the shop for it's performance rebuild. I'm sending it off to the shop because I've never rebuilt and engine, and would prefer this engine done right, as I plan on driving it for at least a year.

http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/a20-outofcar.jpg
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/empty-3gee.jpg

Tomorrow, I'm going to scour the forums and find out the best parts and upgrades that I can have done to the engine. The basic plans for now are as follows:

Bore out the cylinders for more displacement.
Higher compression pistons.
Stronger rods.
Mill the head for even higher compression.
Port and polish the head.
3-angle valve job.
Stronger valve springs.
Prelude cam, or more other slightly more agressive cam. (Still want to daily drive)

Rebuilt ES2 transmission.
Stage 1 performance clutch.

Since the car is going to be a daily driver, I plan on keeping the A/C and power steering systems. I don't think that they rob enough power (especially when off) to make that big of a difference for me.

Will keep this thread updated with my progress.

Bglad420
06-18-2006, 05:56 PM
Good luck with your project! Hey are you going to have a few parts off that 3g for sale like oh I don't know mabey the driver fender?? I'm up in Bellingham and I'd be willing to make the trip if its in good condition, and the price is right.

2ndGenGuy
06-18-2006, 06:00 PM
Holy multiple posts batman.

Yes actually. I've had it posted for sale for a week or two now. You're welcome to come get parts off of it. I could use all the money I can get to perform this rebuild. I won't be stingey though. Make me an offer. I'd rather see the parts go to someone who could use them instead of going to the crusher.

PhydeauX
06-18-2006, 06:15 PM
So much of the mulitple post eh ;) One swinging squirrel sack is enough for anybody.

Anyway good luck with this. I hope you figure out a way to keep the ac. I have a feeling that its possible, but you're in uncharted waters with that one.

If you're going to do pistons etc, don't waste your time with a prelude cam, get a colt regrind. I run a 272 and the car is still streetable. The a20 is a torqey engine, its hard to kill off the low end power. For what I run now the 272 is actually too small. Talk to (I believe its Gary) colt and tell him what you want to do. You'll want to do this while you're rebuilding your engine as you'll need to send him your cam. The motor shop is going to want the cam when they do the engine too so the sooner you send it the better.

andy

Bglad420
06-18-2006, 06:47 PM
Yeah I don't know what the heck happened there, but they're gone....

carotman
06-18-2006, 08:36 PM
Nice Work!

You might want to keep the Axle innet joint. They might come in handy in the future. It might be possible to make custom axles with a 2G axle and a 3g inner joint.

2ndGenGuy
06-18-2006, 10:00 PM
Good call on keeping those. You may be right about that. I'm trying to keep everything that might be useful in the swap. Theres a lot of ports on the intake manifold, with hard pipes that were coming off of the exhaust. I assume I'm not going to need those anymore.

And I'm planning on griding off all of the flanges on the intake manifold that were for mounting stupid emissions crap. Make the manifold look all nice and clean. I assume that I don't need the EGR valves or anything like that. The only thing that I'm planning on bolting onto the intake manifold is the carb and the coolant lines.

speedpenguin
06-19-2006, 06:25 AM
That looks like a fun project. Not to mention a relatively cheap one!

2ndGenGuy
06-19-2006, 10:13 AM
So, I take it that with the A/C I'm going to have to a hard time mounting the ES2's A/C onto the A20 engine. Or is the only problem the pulleys? If the pulleys are the issue, I'll keep the ES2 pulley, Alternator, Power steering pump and A/C compressor. If I have to modify the A/C bracket, I don't think that would be a terribly big deal. I think I read your other post regarding the pulleys...

2ndGenGuy
06-20-2006, 02:29 PM
So, I've decided that after reading some FAQ's and browsing with what everybody is happy with I'm going to go with a Colt cam reground to ~270.

That sounds good from what you say and based on the descriptions from Paeco. Of course, I'll talk to the guys at Colt before I send it in to get a better idea since they are the experts. I like the idea of a good cam for slaloms because theres plenty of those at the autocross track. I still want to keep some bottom end because of all the speed variations at the track.

I think for the next stage of the project, I'm going to go ahead and put my Weber on my ES2 for now, just to see how it works and how everything hooks up. It doesn't look too hard. Then I will have a better idea how it will install on the A20. Plus, it's a waste having that carb just sitting on a shelf in my garage... I'll post pics as I install. Plan on getting some pics up tonight.

2ndGenGuy
06-20-2006, 09:04 PM
Well, I went ahead and started taking the carb off of my car. This was my daily driver, but now I guess I'll be driving my Bronco II to work tomorrow. My buddy who I work with is going to pick me up in his Corvette (aww man!) for a while since I don't think the Bronco will hold up to a whole lot of daily driving.


Here's all the vacuum junk I removed.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/vacuum-junk.jpg


This is about all I could get done tonight. My allergies are killing me today, no more energy to work.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/2g-vacuums-gone.jpg


And I was thinking, wouldn't this make a nice little place for an intake to run? The only possible problems being it might collect water in the harsh (rainy) Washington winters, but should be great for this summer. Also I suppose it might make the car a bit noisy in the cabin, with this being the air duct for the heating / cooling system.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/possible-intake.jpg


This project is starting to scare me a little bit though. There are a couple components in the vacuum system that look essential to run certain things. Like the ilde boost valve for the A/C. Also, if I don't remove the AS valve, where do I run the vacuum lines on the end of that black box attached to it? Those went into the old airbox before I believe.

Also, there are two hoses that go down to what look like a temperature sensor right on the thermostat housing. Can I just leave those vacuum lines off, and leave that sensor guy just hanging out in there?

From what I understand though, vacuum is just vacuum, and if I need it to power something (like cruise control), I can most likely just T off another line?

Going to learn alot from this... Hopefully I'm not in too far over my head.

PhydeauX
06-21-2006, 06:49 PM
You need to plug that hole up, else you're going to be pumping engine fumes into your cabin. Get a piece of sheet metal, paint it to match, seal it with silicon and bolt it on there. I made a little shelf in that spot and used it to mount my msd box.

The a/c idle up is a bit of a problem. I believe there are solenoids you can buy for the weber dgv carbs to push the idle up. Its an electric solenoid so it would need to be wired in to where the vacuum solenoid was in the black box. I'm not sure if you'll need it or not. Idle up is also activated when you hit the brake lights, head lights, or rear defrost. I didn't run it and never had a problem. I could hear the idle drop a little bit when I put a heave electrical load on it, but it was never enough to cause problems.

With the pullies the problem is going to be the water pump. The ES2 water pump pully won't bolt to the a20 water pump. The a20 uses a 5 rib belt and the ES2 uses a 4 so you need the ES2 water pump pully with the es2 crank pully. You should have no trouble bolting the ac to the block, externaly the es2 and a20 blocks are virtually identical, they have all the same hole in all the same places. I never looked into this but as I said the solution may be as simple as using an ES2 water pump on the a20 block.

IIRC the 2 vacuum lines that go down to that little temp sensor thing are to boost the timing when the engine is cold. One should go to a vacuum soruce and the other to one of the ports on the distributor. You don't need that for anything, just leave it off and you only have to hook up one of the 2 vacuum advance ports on the distributor to the carb. If you really want to keep it then just hook one of the lines to a vacuum soruce some where and the other to the second port.

When you're done you'll only have 4 vacuum lines to worry about, the advance, the brake booster, the hvac (this is the line that runs to the firewall on the drives side, you need this unless you only want defrost to work), and the cruise since you seem to want to keep that. The vacuum advance goes to the port on the carb. The brake booster goes to the same place, and the other two can be hooked up to any port on the intake or where ever, you're right, it doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what you mean by the AS valve, but you should probalby unhook it. All vacuum comes from the manifold, so if it isn't hooked up to the manifold then you don't have to worry about it.

The vacuum system with the weber isn't intimidating at all. The birds nest of emissions controls are gone and you end up with a nice simple system. The car doesn't actually need any of the vacuum system to run. You have problems with the vacuum system on the stock carb because it is actually tuned to run rich at idle and part throttle and then the "emissions computer" creats a controled vacuum leak to lean the mixture out based on what it reads from its maps and the o2 sensor. When that system starts to break down it can be a night mare. The weber doesn't use any of that hippie sh1t, its pure old shcool.

Oh by the way, incase you didn't know that pimpin valve cover of yours will bolt right on to the a20 when you install it.

andy

2ndGenGuy
06-21-2006, 10:26 PM
Man! You are a genius, Andy! I don't know what I would do without you. Your advice makes me feel much better about this.

w00t about the valve cover. I spent about 2 hours sandblasting it. (Rice!)

By the AS (air suction, I think) valve, I mean that big-ass metal pipe that comes up from the exhaust manifold. It goes to this valve lookin thing that almost looks just like the EGR vavle, but its right behind the valve cover. That connects into another black box that sits right behind the valve cover as well. That had 2 small hoses and one large hose that went into the air cleaner box.

Here is a picture of the 3 hoses that went into there at one point.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/as-valve.jpg

Ideally, I think that you want to remove that whole thing. Trouble is that I don't have any way to cap it at the exhaust manifold. So I think i'll just cap everything else off up top for now. I'll take that part that screws into the manifold and have it welded shut at the top...

Also, the big PCV hose that comes up from the crank case and into that breather box; Can I just connect that hose up to the inake manifold? Thats where it winds up going anyways, I figure. Or would it be better to run it into the airbox cos it might mess up the vacuum? There IS a hole on the bottom of the air cleaner box, so I figure that would be okay.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/pcv-pipe.jpg


These guys I assume I can cap off as well. They're on the bottom of the manifold. They just looked like some kind of vacuum regulators.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/yellow-thingys.jpg


The manifold adapter plate from Pierce Manifolds was rubbing against the PCV inlet on the manifold from the valve cover. I went ahead and shaved a little off with my dremel so it fits nicely now. :) Kinda ghetto job, but I'm a noob.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/shaved-adapter.jpg
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/shaved-gasket.jpg


Also, when I put the carb on, I used those little cardboard gaskets. I mean I'm assuming that they're gaskets for that spacer. Thats what they are, right? Not just protective cardboard for the rubber spacer...
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/carb-spacer.jpg

Gonna pick up a Weber carb book tomorrow, as instructed in the Weber Carb how to on the site. Speaking of the how-to, it says not to remove the "Thermovalves." I looked in the manual, and I'm not really sure exactly what that means. It referred to the PCV system again, so I assume that means don't remove the PCV system?

Sorry for all the questions, especially if they are stupid ones...

Thanks again, Andy, for all of your help with this! It's much appreciated. If there is anything I can do to help you out sometime, PM me. Although, I doubt that theres anything I can do. :)

2ndGenGuy
06-21-2006, 10:34 PM
Oh man I just was browsing the manual, and found that I don't want to connect that PCV box to the vacuum on the intake manifold. Looks like that box will suck air IN to the crankcase down below. I think I will hit up The 'Zone tomorrow and pick up one of those generic little filters that fits on the end of a hose and I'll secure it to the firewall somehow.

I also see what those yellow things are. Those are the thermovalves. It says in the Weber How-To NOT to disconnect those... I'm just curious as to why not? They look like yet another unimportant part of the emissions system.

Come to think of it also, my idle up hasn't worked since I bought the car. So $%*# it! :p

carotman
06-22-2006, 03:55 AM
Just get one of your spare Air Suction tubes, then cut it and bend it like that:

http://carotman.no-ip.com:8888/personal_site/howto/eficonversion/images/suctionpipe.jpg

It didn't leak on my car. It would look better with all the Air Suction system removed.

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 06:52 AM
Agreed! I do think it would look much better without it. Great idea on bending it like that! I think that's what I'll go ahead and do. Now I just gotta figure out how to get it out of there with all the A/C and power steering lines in the way. Looks like a pain to get a wrench down in where that connects to the exhaust manifold. Thanks for the tip!

PhydeauX
06-22-2006, 09:43 AM
There should be a plastic elbow that attaches to the bottom of the weber's air cleaner, you can hook the pcv up to that, or use a seperate filter, it doesn't matter.

After seeing it I remember what the AS valve is. It allows air to be sucked into the exhaust stream. This has some benefit for the cat, I don't rember exactly what. I used the same solution as carrot on mine, I also did that to the egr. I welded the fold after I bent it to ensure that it didn't leak.

You can leave those two yellow vacuum switches be. They don't have any vaccum coming from them so there is no reason to cap them off. They allow vacuum to flow through them at certain temprature ranges, they were doing something emissions releated. Definitely don't remove them. There is coolant flowing under the manifold and both of those switches are threaded into the coolant cavity. If you take them out you're going to have a big mess and a major coolant leak.

I don't know quite how the gaskets go together on your kit. I never installed a weber on an ES. There should be a gasket between every metal to metal connection, I don't know about the rubber spacer since I didn't have one. Those are definitely the gaskets though. They feel like really crappy cardboard.

Two other thigns I don't know if they mentioned in the weber faq.

1. Use loctite on all of the adapter bolts. Espically those beveled ones, they like to work loose.

2. The weber only goes on one way, and its the way that makes the throttle cable a pain in the ass to install. The smaller barel needs to be twards the firewall, even though it seems to be easier to hook up the other way. It's backwards in that top pic I believe.

andy

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 09:59 AM
Check on the locktite. I will have to pull those bolts off then and redo them. The way its installed in the pic is with the small barrel towards the back. The bigger port on the intake manifold is towards the front of the car, as is the port on the carb and adapter plate. The throttle cable does look like its going to be a pain in the ass to install as its now on the opposite side of the car, as is the fuel line, but it shoudln't be that big of a deal. It came with all the adapters and whatnot.

And yes, you're right about that elbow deal that it came with. I reailzed that when I woke up this morning. (Been thinking about this setup all night, coiuldn't sleep). I think I might go with those little filters from The 'Zone anyways because they kinda look neat (rice!) and people will ask about them.

Cheeseburger
06-22-2006, 10:20 AM
cooL!!!

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 06:45 PM
Okay, I can't find a stupid Weber Manual anywhere in town. I've been to every auto parts store and every book store. So now for the dumb questions. Where do I hook the fuel line? I only see two places. There's the big hose connector on top of the carb that's angled down, and then theres a little hose connector on the back of the carb. What do I do with those... I can't find any diagrams online anywhere, and it didn't come with directions. I figured I could just pick up a manual and be done... but I guess not. Yet another day without the Accord... *sigh*

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 06:51 PM
Okay, so I figured out that the big one on top is the Fuel input line. But whats the small one on the back?

PhydeauX
06-22-2006, 07:01 PM
vacuum advance

Hmmm.. thats odd about the carb, is it a dgv or a dgf?

andy

gfrg88
06-22-2006, 07:12 PM
Okay, so I figured out that the big one on top is the Fuel input line. But whats the small one on the back?


fuel return line???? :dunno:

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 10:42 PM
It's a DGEV according to Pierce Manifolds... But whatever it is, that bitch is now running! Still have a list of things to do:

1. I still have to get the throttle linkage correct. If I straighten out the linkage plate like in the Weber How-To, it will hit on one of the linkage rods for the carb.

2. Need to remove the EGR vavle, and the rest of the AS valve system. I'm going to have the screws for the pipes off of the exhaust manifold welded into caps down at my dad's shop. Then I'll use them to plug the exhaust manifold. And I'm going to remove the EGR valve as well and cut a plate to fit over the holes on the manifold. Then I'll seal it off with some RTV gasket maker. So no more stupid valves.

3. Making a plate to mount the (riced) PCV breather filter next to the firewall. For this, I've measured a 1" x 3" piece of aluminum and I'm going to cut it out and bend it and drill holes to mount the hose in and bolt it to a factory hole on the firewall.

4. Make a plate for the big hole where the hell-box used to be. I've got a sheet of aluminum that I'm going to cut and then silicone seal it to the firewall there. Then I'll drill holes at the factory drill points and bolt it down, as suggested. :)

5. Connect the HVAC system. There are two vacuum lines going into the firewall. One is a hard pipe that WAS from the canister, and the other is just a vacuum hose hanging out of the firewall. I get the feeling that the one host just hanging out of the firewall is for the HVAC system. But I'm going to double-check it in the Honda factory manual.

Here are some pics. I took after I started it. Notice the vice grips clamping down the rubber tube coming off of that crazy air suction valve canister. That was just for starting it and see if it runs. Indeed it started right up. I was amazed I could accomplish such a feat.

http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/itruns1.jpg
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/itruns2.jpg

I'm hoping to have all of the fabrication done tomorrow, and Saturday I can tune it ALL DAY! I'm not sure if the carb is already jetted for a 4-cylinder or not. I would assume so, since it came in a kit. But after it's running smooth, I might just order a jet kit and play with jetting too!

2ndGenGuy
06-22-2006, 11:10 PM
Aah, I keep learning new things! From what I understand, the DGEV and DGAV are both DGV carbs. One is just Electric choke and the other is a water choke or something like that.

A diagram (http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/typical_dgv_carb_install_views.htm) I found on RedLine Weber's website shows what you guys said ealier abou the vacuum advance. The other one is an EGR port, I guess I hook that to my EGR valve's vacuum port (obviously).

Oh, another thing I didn't note, is that I need to hook up the electric choke. Although my car started up on the first try, so I'm not sure I really need to. Maybe it would be good for cold days anyways. I think I'll figure that part out too and hook it up the right way.

speedpenguin
06-23-2006, 06:08 AM
Wow, congrats on being (almost) done!

2ndGenGuy
06-23-2006, 06:38 AM
Funny thing, when I started it up last night, it was running REALLY rough. I couldn't figure out why, but I figured it was just the carb out of tune. Came out this morning and realized that I had pulled a spark plug wire to get the exhaust shield off. LMAO, I reconnected the spark plug and started it up again, and BAM the car was running so smooth. Idle still needed adjustment, and the mixture a little bit, but it sure sounded way better than the stock carb. CSSSSSSHHHHHH!

Ugh now I gotta sit here at work all day and think about how my car is just SITTING there, when I could be home tuning and fabricating... ugh

aerokid1987
06-23-2006, 07:03 AM
Wow dude you got mad props from me!! Looking hella sweet bro!

offthahook
06-23-2006, 12:26 PM
No doubt. Outengineering or even reverse engineering Honda on these cars is damn hard.... Mad props for sharing the info. Takes a special person to do this kinda thing. Sort of like retrofitting cruise control, only harder!

2ndGenGuy
06-23-2006, 01:34 PM
Man retrofitting that cruise must have been a HUGE feat. Gotta give you some huge credit for that! This was easy, rip everyhing off connected to the carb, and put the new one on. I was scared that the carb might not supply the CVCC pre-chamber properly, but all seems well so far. This is definitely the way carbed Hondas should be run. I think I wanna find a cheap used Weber and toss it on the 1gee when I get the head for it. Make it into a rally car or just fix it up really nice and sell it to someone who would appreciate it.

PhydeauX
06-26-2006, 09:15 AM
You need to hook up the electric choke. If you don't it won't disengage. You don't want to be driving around with your choke on all the time. The choke heater (that white puck shaped thing) just needs 12v when the car is running. The car originally had an electric choke so you should be able to track down the original wire for it. It was one of the 3 or so wires running to the original carb. It doesn't matter where the power actually comes from and if indoubt you can run it of the + terminal of the ignition coil. You don't have to hook up the vacuum advance, but you should get a better idle and a slight improvement in gas milage if you do. If you don't then make sure to cap of the port on the carb. Oh and the kits already come prejetted for your car. You shouldn't have to mess with the jets yet. Hold off on the jet kit untill you get it on the a20 and drop a cam in it.

andy

2ndGenGuy
06-26-2006, 09:54 AM
I made my first commute to work in it today. It's about 12 miles by Interstate. Car seems to be doing okay considering it's not tuned at all. I didn't have any time to mess with it this weekend. I wound up shoving a tee-shirt into that hole to keep the engine fumes out of the cabin.

I did hook up the electric choke. It seems to be working as it should. There was a little blue wiring connector that went to the orignal carb, that as you said has 3 wires going to it. I just used a multimeter to see which one has power when the car is on, and hooked a wire from that to the choke.

First thing I noticed is that the throttle isn't returning all the way back to idle. Maybe the nut is on too tight. It came with an extra spring which I assume should be hooked up, but I can't really figure out a place to hook it up. I figure I'll make some kind of crazy bracket and attach it to the firewall.

Also, the gas pedal isn't opening up the secondary at all. I need to reconnect the throttle cable in a different location on the bracket. Probably down closer to the base. I'm also going to try and make a pivot for the cable like is shown in the howto for the 3geez. I think that will make the smaller throw of the gas pedal throw the throttle all the way open on the carb.

Getting off work early today, so I'm hoping to get some more work done on it. Found a few guides on tuning the carb. Nobody in town sells those Weber books anymore. :(

Thanks for the info about the jetting too. I was worried about that, and emailed Pierce Manifolds, but you responded more quickly. :)

I'm going to go to the Pick-A-Nose place tonight too if possible and grab a spare AS and EGR pipe, those hard ones that come out of the exhaust. That way for now, I can run the car with my ghetto vice-grips clamping the AS valve port while I'm having those new caps welded up.

Oh one more thing... Do I need to adjust the float bowl? I heard that they usually come way out of whack. What will the symptoms of a mis-adjusted float bowl do usually?

PhydeauX
06-26-2006, 06:54 PM
A miss adjusted float bowl will make it run lean or rich, real bad and it might flood, but you'd have noticed that by now. I can look up the float settings for you if you tell me which float you have, there were both plastic and brass versions. You have to pull the top of the carb to adjust it, but the gasket is reuseable if you don't damage it so its not big deal. I actually got my weber book at pepboys of all places. I don't know if they still carry them, they seem to have cut their inventory in half these days to carry more of those underpowered faux atvs and crap.

If you don't have any springs on there you'll need to install atleast one, you can't just use the spring built into the carb, its not strong enough. I used a universal dual return spring on mine, i think it was mr gasket brand. That little spring it comes with is crap. Don't attach the spring to the firewall, the engine will move on the mounts and it can cause problems. make a bracket similar to the throttle cable bracket and put it on the other side of the carb for the spring.

If the info in the weber how to about the linkage is the stuff I posted a long time ago then its actually the info for the 2g, works fine on the 3g too though. If you remember you're trig (and I bet you though that was a useless class), the distance the throttle cable moves when the gas is depressed is the arc length, and the included angle is 90. Solve for the radius and you know how far from the center of the pivot you need to drill the hole. I forget what the distance is, but I still have my dgv in a box some where so I can measure it if needed.

Oh and take a hack saw with a good blade with you to get those pipes. Its a hell of a lot easier to saw the centers out of them to get them out then takeing them out in one piece. Also you're going to need a huge breaker bar on the end of your wrench, those nuts tend be siezed up really good. If the yard allows it a torch is a good way to get them loose, if not you're in for some fun.

Oh, amazon has the book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156392157X/sr=8-1/qid=1151377140/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2527377-7244612?ie=UTF8
Search for weber carburetor if that link doesn't work.

andy

2ndGenGuy
06-27-2006, 12:14 AM
Tonight in the ongoing saga that is the '84 Accord; a panel has been fabricated, a bracket has been made, and the carb is running a little better.

So, I made that cover panel so that I could safely drive the car. I had some sheet aluminum hanging out, so I cut it to fit over the giant hole, and made holes to bolt it to the factory place on the firewall. Sealed it with clear silicon RTV like you said. Pretty good idea.

I also made a little bracket to hold the "mini K&N" that goes on the PCV breather. It looks much better than just hanging there.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/cover-fabbed.jpg


Still didn't get the AS and EGR hose ends from the junkyard. The car that I was looking for was gone. :/ Does anybody know if those little caps that screw into the exhaust manifold are the same for the 3g and the 2g? If so, I can take them from my 87 and use them. If nobody knows off the top of thier head, I'll just give it a try tomorrow, will be easy to figure out. Still using the ghetto "vice-grips" method of plugging the AS stuff for now. Probably won't pass tech at the autocross track haha.

Also, yeah I did manage to get the spring hooked up. I used a factory flange on the intake manifold to bolt the bracket on that came with the carb. Worked really damn well. Sure helped setting the mixture and idle up much easier.
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/es2-weber/return-spring.jpg

You can also see my ghetto linkage that isn't opening the secondaries. I will have to make a bracket like you suggested in your howto as well. I tried to fudge it like it is, but it just won't do. I had to drill out the hole in the screw the make the throttle cable go through it too. Worked pretty well.

Also, I think it may need more vacuum advance. The engine seems to bog or hesitate if I manually open up the secondaries too quick. I figure it would be like simulating stepping on the gas all the way. It could be possibly due to the float bowl and it's flooding like you said. I've got the vacuum advance on the carb hooked up to the port on the distributor, but I was thinking about doing another one off of the intake manifold to the vacuum advance as well. Oh yeah, I may need to set the timing too.

It's running pretty good otherwise. I was able to play with the mixture a bit and get it to drive around town smoother. It feels about as power as stock, so I'm looking forward to having it REALLY tuned.

Still a bit of work ahead of me, but hopefully I can have it all ready for autocross on Sunday.

2ndGenGuy
06-27-2006, 10:07 AM
I got an email back from Pierce Manifolds. They said that kit I bought comes with stock jetting. So, I'm guessing that I need to buy the right jets for my car...

Also been reading a bit too, there is a vent line from the fuel tank that used to go into the charcoal canister. Do I need to do anything with that? Should I run a line from that tube to the air cleaner box, or would it just be better off left alone?

Is the PCV flow in the ES2 reversed from the A20? Not that it matters but I was just curious. It appears that on my engine (the ES2), the PCV gets suctioned through the valve cover and is connected to the intake manifold, while the line from the crank case goes into the air filter box. On the A20, it looks like the line coming from the crankcase is the one thats fed into the intake manifold, and the valve cover port goes up to the air cleaner... Is this correct?

forrest89sei
06-27-2006, 05:44 PM
I got an email back from Pierce Manifolds. They said that kit I bought comes with stock jetting. So, I'm guessing that I need to buy the right jets for my car...

Also been reading a bit too, there is a vent line from the fuel tank that used to go into the charcoal canister. Do I need to do anything with that? Should I run a line from that tube to the air cleaner box, or would it just be better off left alone?

Is the PCV flow in the ES2 reversed from the A20? Not that it matters but I was just curious. It appears that on my engine (the ES2), the PCV gets suctioned through the valve cover and is connected to the intake manifold, while the line from the crank case goes into the air filter box. On the A20, it looks like the line coming from the crankcase is the one thats fed into the intake manifold, and the valve cover port goes up to the air cleaner... Is this correct?

Do you have a Service Manual for the 1986-89 Accords?

If you don't PM me your address & I'll send you a CD-ROM of the Factory Service Manual.

Good Luck On Your Swap

2ndGenGuy
06-27-2006, 11:07 PM
Do you have a Service Manual for the 1986-89 Accords?
If you don't PM me your address & I'll send you a CD-ROM of the Factory Service Manual.
Good Luck On Your Swap

Thanks! I actually bought an old tattered factory service manual for 1987 one off eBay for $5, so no need for the CD-ROM. Although I might be willing to buy one from you anyways. Just so I can look at it while I'm on the computer and don't have to run out to the garage. How much?

PhydeauX
06-28-2006, 09:33 AM
The vacuum advance doesn't do crap for acceleration or anything like that. It only advances the distributor when there is vacuum in the manifold, ie closed throttle. Once you floor it the advance goes off. Its only a degree to two anyway. It helps to smooth out the idle or something like that. Normaly bogging when you floor it means that the accelerator pump jet is too small, but make sure that the rest of the carb is set up properly before you start messing with that. The a20 pcv system breathes at the valve cover and has suction at the block, it is backwards from yours I believe.

Oh I forgot to mention, don't drill out the hole in the throttle cable mount. It'll work for a little bit, but if it's like mine it will find the most inconvienent time to snap. A better way is to strip the plastic of the end of the throttle cable and untwist part of the braid untill it's thin enough to fit the stock hole. Though that info is problaby too late now. You might want to order another one if you get a jet kit.

andy

forrest89sei
06-28-2006, 09:58 PM
Thanks! I actually bought an old tattered factory service manual for 1987 one off eBay for $5, so no need for the CD-ROM. Although I might be willing to buy one from you anyways. Just so I can look at it while I'm on the computer and don't have to run out to the garage. How much?


just the cost of Priority Mail $4.95

2ndGenGuy
06-29-2006, 07:01 AM
Okay, so I ordered a jet kit from Pierce today. I also ordered that Weber book from Amazon. I had them both shipped overnight. I should see it all tomorrow, and hopefully Saturday I'll be done getting it all tuned up. That is, so long as I can get my front swaybar on tonight. :/

Oh yeah, also picked up a new throttle cable anchor, for when mine breaks. :)

2ndGenGuy
07-16-2006, 12:48 AM
Well, I just thought I'd update on my project. So far not much has happened. I've been mega-lazy lately with everything. I haven't even tuned my new carb yet on the ES2. Its actually running ok, gets good mileage and is very reliable. Been my daily driver every day since my last report.

I guess one major event, was the dumping of the 3gee. I called the junkyard and had them come pick it up last Tuesday. This picture was actually from that Monday that I set it out in the street for pickup. The car is gone now, and will never see another road again. Kinda sad.... :(
http://localdomain.net/~john/pics/3gee/last-day.jpg

Oh yeah I got my Weber carb manual in the mail. Been reading it, and I dunno if it's making things any easier... It talks about so many methods of fuel delivery throughout the carbureator, and how complex the carb systems are. I'm amazed at how well they run with all the fine details that need to be set. I'm getting a bit confused about what I should be doing with it, but after a bit more reading, I think I'll start to pick a few things up.

2ndGenGuy
08-30-2006, 10:23 AM
Okay so I'm starting the next chapter of my story here. I emailed Colt Cams and told them what I was working on. Here's the reply I got back from them:


To John,

Thank-you, for contacting us.
Our most popular grinds for the 12V SOHC Honda's are known as the "TRI FLOW".
The principal behind the design is to open the intake valves progressively.
We find opening both valves at the same time causes more bottom end loss than necessary.

By opening one valve first allows the fuel to travel across the chamber at a greater velocity and then helps pull in the second charge.
These profiles also help cut down on overlap and work great in Turbo's and N.O.S.
applications.

STAGE 1 - PRIM INT 270° .384 LIFT
SEC INT 260° .384 LIFT
EX 274° .402 LIFT
Best all around wake up grind works with F.I. as well. No mods are required.
Power band is 2800 - 6500 R.P.M. approximately.
The cost for this one is $175.00 Canadian or $ 140.00 US
Customer supplies cam core.


STAGE 2 - PRIM INT 280° .392 LIFT
SEC INT 268° .383 LIFT
EX 288° .394 LIFT
Recommended for carburetor engine. However, it will work on F.I. with a noticeable idle
and possibly a slight surge. Strong mid range. No mods are required
Power band is 3500 - 7500 R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $225.00 Canadian or $180.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.


STAGE 3 - PRIM INT 292° .413 LIFT
SEC. INT 272° .402 LIFT
EX. 302° .428 LIFT
Carb. only. Race Only.
The power band is from 4500 + R.P.M.
The cost for this one is $325.00 Canadian or $260.00 US.
Customer supplies cam core.

So what I've decided on is the stage 2 cam. Does this look okay? I don't see any downsides to it myself... Of course I'd get better valve retainers and springs to handle the higher RPM range and have the bottom end built stronger. I think it will go great with a port and polish job.

I thought it was interesting how they delay the opening of the second valve to help reduce lost low end torque.

denhonda
09-02-2006, 08:36 AM
The right up on the Stage 1 cam looks better to me. Powerband from 2800rpm seems appealing, works well with FI therefore presume initially designed to work with carb & described as best all rounder. Cheapest might be the best to go for in this instance?

2ndGenGuy
09-07-2006, 09:24 AM
The right up on the Stage 1 cam looks better to me. Powerband from 2800rpm seems appealing, works well with FI therefore presume initially designed to work with carb & described as best all rounder. Cheapest might be the best to go for in this instance?

Yeah that does seem applealing, but I figure with a full bottom end and top end build and balance, I will bump my redline to about 7500. Thats what I'm looking to do, and since I'm now planning on running a Prelude transmisison, the shorter gears should help me keep my rpms up around town. And besides that the power will be greater in the stage 2 cam, even though it's higher up...

A20A1
09-07-2006, 07:44 PM
Awe you had an aresomw air induction thru the firewall, you should use it :)

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4223

there is a lot of into I found on weber tuning, it should help you figure things out.

2ndGenGuy
10-03-2006, 12:08 PM
Awe you had an aresomw air induction thru the firewall, you should use it :)
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4223
there is a lot of into I found on weber tuning, it should help you figure things out.

Cool thanks man! I am still thinking about using that actually. As long as I don't get carb fumes into the cabin! :lol: That's for later down the road though...


Just sent my cam into Colt Cams. They are the greatest people to deal with. They just emailed me and let me know they got my cam:



To John,
Just to let you know your cam arrived in great time we were doing a run of them so I was set up for yours.
I will be able to send it out to you tomorrow.
I will let you know after I ship it how long they say it will take to get to you.
Thanks,
Geoff and the crew @
COLT CAMS INC.


I found it interesting that they were doing a whole run of A20 cams. I think I read about a couple people on here getting Colt Tri-Flow stage 2's just recently. I guess now was the best time. :)

Now my next step is choosing my engine builder. I just created a thread about this a couple days ago. I'm going to spend some time this week finding out who the builder is that I'm going to choose. Then the bottom end is off! Hoefully this week or next week some time.