PDA

View Full Version : Turbo Manifold by : F22PARTS.COM



gfrg88
07-07-2006, 06:24 PM
well ass some of you have read in some of my other post, im working with f22parts.com on getting a turbo manifold made. they said they can do it and dont need a group buy or anything. if five or more are bought then that person gets $50 off of each one. So all they need is an exhaust gasket to make them. BUT heres my question the guy wants to know what "style" we want them made, as in log manifold, ram horn style, equal length, or what???? what do you guys think would be more interested in???? oh and the price on these are going to be the same as all the other ones they have for sale :thumbup:





EXAMPLES OF EACH STYLE

LOG STYLE
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3430

TUBULAR
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3427

RAM HORN
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3451

A20A1
07-07-2006, 06:36 PM
well every turbo install will be different... I mean you want to make sure the manifold and turbo size all work and it doesn't hit anything in the engine bay.
I would say something that seperates the tubes more then a log manifold and merges them into 1 nicely without Cylinder #1 shooting it's exhaust towards the open end of cylinder #4's pipe. Above the merge, a 5th pipe to allow even access from all 4 pipes to the wastegate above the turbo flange.
So anything that aims the exhaust flow at the turbo and not at the other exhaust flows is good in my book.
So no log manifold.
----
The extra outlined white circle in the image is just the size of the F series ports turned 90*.
When tracing use the smaller inner whole circles as the A20 ports.
The original image is 12" wide so scale it appropriately before printing it out. It was is 300px/in but I made it 72px/in so the file size would be smaller.
Please double check the fit after you print it.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/exh_a20.jpg
I would split cylinders in pairs with a dividing wall , 1-2 & 3-4 down the center to avoid the two sides meeting head on inside the manifold.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/tmd3.jpg

My theory is that if you build it facing up you have all that room underneath the manifold to use.

Certainly room to make braces to hold the turbo and manifold up using the stock bracket on the block that used to hold the cast iron manifold to the block and some steel rods.

It might hit the hood and certainly would require some heat shielding between the turbo and the hood.

...the turbo flange looks a bit warped in the 2nd image.
but it could be a trick of light and dark.

There isn't much difference between the port spacings... well from my view anyways.
So you wont need more material then what you see.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/f22_gasket_a20_head.jpg

Hash_man_Se_i
07-07-2006, 07:03 PM
I would say a ramhorn style manifold would be great... but are they not going to use a 3g for a template? clearance issues could become a problem.

And like a20 said, what kind of flange will be going on it?
And are they tig welded? what kind of metal?

gfrg88
07-07-2006, 07:31 PM
well he said you just order what you want and hell get it done, but i need to send him a manifold first, and yeah im not really sure on ramhorn because he doesnt have a test car or something. im just gonna get a simple log manifold for me, but you guys can try out other ones if you want. ill talk to him to see if he needs a car for meauserments.

mkymonkey
07-07-2006, 07:39 PM
where is he located? in socal? if so i can let him borrow my DC sports header as a template...and maybe i can get a discount! :D oh and what are he prices do you know yet? you know my number dude...if he's interested.

Cheeseburger
07-08-2006, 12:07 AM
I would split cylinders in pairs with a dividing wall , 1-2 & 3-4 down the center to avoid the two sides meeting head on inside the manifold.


wow thats cool!


it would be awsome if this guy could get more parts made for the a20:welcome:

89T
07-08-2006, 05:22 AM
good theory, but i think you can releave the hood issue by turning the runners down at 90 degres then 180 them back up to the collector.
the other issue would be what size turbo?
mine is 2-3 times the size of a t25..

F22Partscom
07-09-2006, 06:18 PM
Hello my name is Dave I am the owner and operator of F22parts. By request gfrg88 ask me to sign up and help answer some questions.

How may I help you all?

dave

A20A1
07-09-2006, 08:16 PM
Welcome Dave,
I think it shows good on you're part that you're willing to come here directly.

ZackieDarko
07-09-2006, 09:45 PM
Equal Lengeth Ram Horn FTW!

gfrg88
07-10-2006, 04:41 PM
BUMP!!! :rant: whatever happened to " i wish people made turbo manifold for us"!!!!!!!!!!!! come one people, get your any of your ideas one here, this guy is being great by taking the time and actually trying to get some made for us :sadwave:

mkymonkey
07-10-2006, 04:46 PM
well ram horn seems to be what im leaning towards...and you didnt answer my questions gio

well then log it is. though i voted for the ram already :\

i like this one!

http://www.f22parts.com/item_turbomanifold.htm

http://www.f22parts.com/turbomanifold.jpg http://www.f22parts.com/turbomanifold3.jpg http://www.f22parts.com/turbomanifold2.jpg

and at $400 its not bad...i wouldnt mind paying for that

gfrg88
07-10-2006, 05:20 PM
hes located in MS. anyone out there willing to take an accord so he test fit??? for ram horn that is... :sadwave:

MessyHonda
07-10-2006, 05:22 PM
im still a noob on turbos...plus i dont think my stock motor could handle lots of presure...and i dont knoe if its smog legal. maybe a small t25 turbo

ZackieDarko
07-10-2006, 05:23 PM
ram horn ftw

gfrg88
07-10-2006, 05:40 PM
im still a noob on turbos...plus i dont think my stock motor could handle lots of presure...and i dont knoe if its smog legal. maybe a small t25 turbo

your stock engine would be great with a t25 running 8psi. stock they can handle around 12-13ish psi according to some poeple.

A20A1
07-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Are you guys even considering the price?

TJX
07-10-2006, 05:57 PM
He said price would be the same as the other ones they make, so only 4-5 hundred.

gfrg88
07-10-2006, 05:57 PM
Are you guys even considering the price?
yeah you guys have to consider price too. so i would say log since they are cheaper and i know that people on here are super cheap, so lets all be realistic and not say you want something that you arent gonna get...

so basically all Dave would need is new flange for our cars right??

A20A1
07-10-2006, 07:38 PM
yes, and some way to tell what angle to aim the turbo flange down... that would help radiator clearance.

TJX
07-10-2006, 07:46 PM
Well, is anyone located near him that could let him borrow a car?

gfrg88
07-10-2006, 07:52 PM
Well, is anyone located near him that could let him borrow a car?

yeah that would help out A LOT. anyone near him :sadwave:

F22Partscom
07-10-2006, 07:59 PM
wow thats cool!


it would be awsome if this guy could get more parts made for the a20:welcome:


Hey ya'll are a Great bunch or people. Glad to be here, did not know what to think at first. Some people a taken me wrong before, most likely because I have a hard time relaying what I am thinking into text and misspell on a regular basis. Does this have a spell check? LOL

I just bought A20Parts.com tonight but with little time to build a website.
This page here is a great start tho. We started very small and are still a very small company, just know getting a business license. I also own other sites like h22parts.com and b18 and b16 ect. Still no extra time to build any new ones yet...

My vote was for the log style manifold because of a couple or reason. One they are the most readily available to us at this time. Second we have yet to even sell a rams horn style or even the cast style we have never sold. The cast style would be an option but only after a prototype log style. Has anyone ever herd the phrase function before form? Meaning that the log style has Great function being small easy to change the design on, even change each manifold like what was mentioned earlier.

A few things I will need to start any of these will be
1. Exhaust gasket that matches good
2. Some measurements of turbo placement and wastegate if needed. I see some talent with that computer drawing. Something like that would work great if it hade measurements. One guy could not do this but instead sent me a neat little weld together metal frame of the turbo mounted where he needed it with it going only to the exhaust bolt flange, simulating the manifold. Either would work or both..
3. Money, all special order are prepaid in full.

We accept paypal, money orders, check, cash. When who ever is ready simply use the same like as our f22 manifold and include what you need with the payment. Try to wait until we have the design and measurements finished.

dave

TJX
07-10-2006, 08:10 PM
You may want to join preludepower.com too, a couple people over there are interested also.

F22Partscom
07-10-2006, 08:16 PM
I only want to work from this forum for now. Takes to much extra time, maybe this will draw people here? Sure that’s good for business here. lol


dave
What all year model ludes are there my favorite is the 1995. Thank you for asking tho.

F22Partscom
07-10-2006, 08:22 PM
well every turbo install will be different... I mean you want to make sure the manifold and turbo size all work and it doesn't hit anything in the engine bay.
I would say something that seperates the tubes more then a log manifold and merges them into 1 nicely without Cylinder #1 shooting it's exhaust towards the open end of cylinder #4's pipe. Above the merge, a 5th pipe to allow even access from all 4 pipes to the wastegate above the turbo flange.
So anything that aims the exhaust flow at the turbo and not at the other exhaust flows is good in my book.
So no log manifold.
----
The extra outlined white circle in the image is just the size of the F series ports turned 90*.
When tracing use the smaller inner whole circles as the A20 ports.
The original image is 12" wide so scale it appropriately before printing it out. It was is 300px/in but I made it 72px/in so the file size would be smaller.
Please double check the fit after you print it.
I would split cylinders in pairs with a dividing wall , 1-2 & 3-4 down the center to avoid the two sides meeting head on inside the manifold.
My theory is that if you build it facing up you have all that room underneath the manifold to use.
Certainly room to make braces to hold the turbo and manifold up using the stock bracket on the block that used to hold the cast iron manifold to the block and some steel rods.
It might hit the hood and certainly would require some heat shielding between the turbo and the hood.


I really like this! We can work with this if it had measurements. How did you make the pic? Flash maybe? did you also make that cool little car you have by you name? lol If so could you make me one of my car possibly? lol

dave

bobafett
07-10-2006, 08:33 PM
hey dave!
its cool to have you hear working through this with us!

can you post basic pricing profiles for these different types of manifolds or metals? ie stainless vs mild steel etc....

anyway we can get some ideas together for manifolds, but i think somewhere between ram and elr manifold would be 'best' but i agree for praticalities sake it might be best just to start with logs.

if you get a demo car can you build downpipe kits or would that not be possible? might be good to get a nissan t2 and dsm and t3 downpipes. :) hehe wishful thinking, but im wondering just how much we can get out of this rare opportunity.

Swap_File
07-10-2006, 10:15 PM
I vote log, because from what I have seen, other styles just don't have the same bang for the buck. (and I am cheap :) )

Log (and tubular) style manifolds could both probably be made small enough to fit without the need for switching to a B series radiator or doing other modifications (powersteering removal, etc). AC might even fit depending on the design, but it would probably be tight.

I am still thinking about trying to build my own manifold, but if the price is right, I would definately buy a premade manifold to save time.

TJX
07-10-2006, 10:27 PM
I only want to work from this forum for now. Takes to much extra time, maybe this will draw people here? Sure that’s good for business here. lol
dave
What all year model ludes are there my favorite is the 1995. Thank you for asking tho.

All years are there. I'll try to get people to come look at this from over there tho.

A20A1
07-10-2006, 10:32 PM
I like the idea of building the frame. Unfortunately I'm short a turbo and an accord at the moment or I would do this on the spot. That also stops me from doing a 3D model in Maya.

I wish the program I used had measurements... it's an old 3d program called "Simply 3D" from like 1994. Not good for much so I just eyeball it.

I like that bobafett... I mean if we build the turbo manifold with other aftermarket parts in mind then that just opens the door to use ready made off the shelf parts.

bobafett
07-11-2006, 12:47 PM
also it might be possible to build a manifold that can arrange the turbo in a location that allows the use of a currently available downpipe.

for example lots of new KA24DET hardware is popping up that allows the use of stock or aftermarket SR20DET downpipes. :) that kind of idea is appealing to me! cause we can get downpipes for other applications already!

snoopyloopy
07-11-2006, 01:17 PM
i vote for log because i'm a poor college student and also because that sounds like the easiest one to get up and running from a r&d standpoint. one question, though. what turbo flange is on the manifold? can we specify or what?

3rdgenhatchDX
07-11-2006, 01:59 PM
I'll buy as long as its not log style, i'm with the ram looks good and seems more compact. My hatch is gonna be blown sooner or later, so lets make it sooner :D

F22Partscom
07-11-2006, 07:51 PM
also it might be possible to build a manifold that can arrange the turbo in a location that allows the use of a currently available downpipe.

for example lots of new KA24DET hardware is popping up that allows the use of stock or aftermarket SR20DET downpipes. :) that kind of idea is appealing to me! cause we can get downpipes for other applications already!


Thanks again for your appreciation.. “bobafett“Yes we can build a down pipe also along with Any other building, machining, fabrication, tuning, you get the picture. But like you said using other available parts is great also.

By you guys, this forum, doing the footwork saves you all bucks. If we were to design, draft, fit then fabricate one it would be much more than the prices discussed earlier.

After thinking about it the log and the tubular are both really the same. If so by current votes the log/tubular manifolds are 29.41% X 2 equals 58.82% by combining both together. Does anyone agree?

dave

mkymonkey
07-11-2006, 08:03 PM
you got my vote ^^^

if we could get the people that have already made their own tubular or log manifold to post up some specs as well as some pics that would put us one step ahead. but what would you need as a design? do you mean mesurements? and draft...i dont know if we have anyone here that has cad and can do one...but if we do we have to get a hold of them. i know if they were to draft one up...i can pay up...or donate some money towards the cause. to the member that is. cuz like you said...by us doing the footwork that would save us money..right? well if we get a design and everything to you just to fabricate...would that count as footwork? lol.

i say this gets stickied or an announcement put up for everyone to see. and if anyone wants to do the draft...and needs money for materials or what have you...like i said...ill put up some just let me know.

gfrg88
07-11-2006, 08:26 PM
hash man sei??? doesnt he know CAD? anyway, you get my vote too dave. it would be even better if someone could just send out one of their log manifolds so he can just make copies of it and maybe improve it. and yes i will help the cause too, even though i really cant waste any more money right know since im movin out to colorado next month :(

Swap_File
07-11-2006, 08:59 PM
Here are some pictures copied over from the "Turbo 3geezers show me your SETUP? (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46404)" thread:
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5483/42055938full0kv9uj.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=42055938full0kv9uj.jpg)
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/5843/dsc005079my2jm.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc005079my2jm.jpg)
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8918/manifoldl2hm5fh.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=manifoldl2hm5fh.jpg)
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7326/dsc000649hs.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000649hs.jpg)
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/3408/011100264ab.th.jpg (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011100264ab.jpg)
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6074/repaintedpipes52qs.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=repaintedpipes52qs.jpg)

CivicSmasher
07-11-2006, 10:01 PM
hello everyone, I came over from preludepower.com cause this site has so much info about a20s.
A manifold is the only thing stopping me from getting my turbo setup complete. I was going to have one made, but the price involved is way higher than this guy wants. So I want in. I'd be interested in the tubular style more, but will go with log if that is the consensus.

mkymonkey
07-11-2006, 10:29 PM
well i really like the one that accordepicenter has:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6074/repaintedpipes52qs.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=repaintedpipes52qs.jpg)

i dont know if that would be possible for this....but one like his would be freaking awesome.

oh and welcome civicsmasher to the 3geez forums. right now we're on the design and decie part but once we get rolling im pretty sure the f22parts guys would appreciate your money lol

A20A1
07-11-2006, 10:49 PM
I could try my hand at CAD but I'd need to refamiliarize myself with the program. Someone is aquiring such a product for me to use.

Anyone have specs on the pipe dimensions... I mean I don't want to build it with a nonexistant pipe diameter. Is scheduald pipe ID or OD ?

...sigh.


CAD is kinda against my religion though, I'm so used to gunning it and pounding the metal and cutting till everything fits. :lol:

So anyone else is also welcome to take this project up. :D

gfrg88
07-11-2006, 11:00 PM
CAD is kinda against my religion though, I'm so used to gunning it and pounding the metal and cutting till everything fits. :lol:


im part of your religion too :D

A20A1
07-11-2006, 11:01 PM
well i really like the one that accordepicenter has:
i dont know if that would be possible for this....but one like his would be freaking awesome.

Looks like 4 starter pipes and then some bends. The tricky part depending how picky you are is how the 4 pipes merge... you can squash em all together or do like Burns Stainless does, which is stupidly nice. I would say the constuction of a merge turbo collector and starter pipes will help prior to welding it all together.
It may not be equal length but I can't see the harm in more then 1.5" off.
I'll show you what I mean in a sec. once I get my lame 3d program working for me.

90* bends (x4) Cylinder 1, 2, 3, 4
(Cut 90* bends x2) 45* bends (x4) Cylinder 1, 4
Straight pipe segment 0.225" long (x2) Cylinder 1, 4
Straight pipe segment 2.000" long (x4) Cylinder 1, 2, 3, 4
Straight pipe segment 1.203" long (x2) Cylinder 2, 3
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/boomstick.png
Cut where needed.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/cuttogether2.png
Flow
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/cuttogether3.png
Thanks.
Awe the gif doesn't have any numbers... I'll try opening the other file.
My illustrator doesn't open it. :(
I used the t3/t4 adapter one. I just used however many inches the gif was in photoshop.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/cuttogether4.png

I have a slow internet... if anyone can find some kind of t3/t4 gasket or diagram to measure, I just need the length and width of any opening and the overall length and width... they might also provide distances between center bolt holes which is important to know because that tells you what turbo will fit the manifold studs.

I did find some diagrams but they are not specific t3/t4.

Swap_File
07-11-2006, 11:34 PM
On HomeMadeTurbo alot of people build manifolds out of 1.5 inch schedule 40 mild steel from http://www.mcmaster.com/

They have really nice diagrams:
http://www.mcmaster.com/library/5/551420/43425K157l.gif
(example)

Until you get your other CAD programs, there is also Alibre Design Xpress which is free:
http://www.alibre.com/xpress/

I have not used it much, but alot of people I know like it. And who can argue with free? :)

theDougler
07-11-2006, 11:43 PM
at the moment i do not remember whether schedule pipe is ID or OD but i will find out as quickly as i can, i also agree on a tubular design would probably be best. but whatever works out works out thats fine. a20a1 have you tried using lightwave at all?

LiTtLe xOx BitT
07-12-2006, 12:05 AM
I would definatly do it, i was just starting to looking into doing a turbo setup.

mkymonkey
07-12-2006, 12:43 AM
wat about this guys

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/turbo_carb_12valve.jpg

this should allow to run everything...as in ps pump and ac right? my question would be, how would you run a pipe to a fmic?

mkymonkey
07-12-2006, 12:56 AM
but...what are you saying? is this a bad design? do you think something else could be done that has better flow? thats a definite duh...but do you think this manifold is inferior to say this one:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/b20accord/DSCF0167.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/b20accord/DSCF0248-1.jpg

A20A1
07-12-2006, 01:18 AM
I like Mosslemans design... I think it has the right idea for cylinders #1 and #4 within the confines of a log manifold.

Look how #4 turns into the turbo, and the wall between #4 & #3 directs cylinders 3, 2, & 1 to the turbo.

Also look how # 2 goes into the pipe coming out of #1. It doesn't have any curve towards cylinder #1. But on the pipe between #4 and #3 you can see a curve... basicly what I'm saying is that subtle things like that are all directing the flow towards the turbo while not making flow in the other direction easy.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/manifoldm.png


BTW our cylinders are numbered 4321.

On the manifold you just posted it is good, everything is aimed towards the turbo as best as it can using that material, but you don't have something getting in the way of #4 firing straight across into #1.
That is my only real issue. But I would just solve it by adding in a dividing wall.

The last issue for me is that #2 has an easy time out towards #1, and #3 can do the same to #4.
That would need straight pipe for cylinders #2 and #3 instead of 3-way T joins to get rid of that transition.

mkymonkey
07-12-2006, 07:36 AM
hey A20A1 i found a pic on ebay of what youre talking about in the top design:

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30061886/Images/MF-HC-AQ.jpg

snoopyloopy
07-12-2006, 02:56 PM
wat about this guys

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/turbo_carb_12valve.jpg

this should allow to run everything...as in ps pump and ac right? my question would be, how would you run a pipe to a fmic?
does this one allow you to keep the stock radiator too? and you just fab a j-pipe to the fmic from wherever it comes out. and how low would the turbo sit in relation to the engine for cooling and oiling purposes?

A20A1
07-12-2006, 04:08 PM
you're right, yeah thats like the first one I posted.
Anyways I think the second one I posted is a little better. so I'm going to work on that.

at the moment i do not remember whether schedule pipe is ID or OD but i will find out as quickly as i can, i also agree on a tubular design would probably be best. but whatever works out works out thats fine. a20a1 have you tried using lightwave at all?
I think someone said that lightwave was like building things in the old versions of worldcraft. I used to build extensive maps in WC for Half-life, Quake. Those were the days, I could barely even run some of the maps they were so big... I wish I had all my things still. I mean on todays processors and ram it'll be no problem running the things I did. I know lightwave was used for Babylon 5, so I was interested in it, my school did teach lightwave for a while but then when a new instructor came Maya took it's place and that was when I was taking the 3D class.


does this one allow you to keep the stock radiator too? and you just fab a j-pipe to the fmic from wherever it comes out. and how low would the turbo sit in relation to the engine for cooling and oiling purposes?
Yes it does, and it even lets you use the stock fan. Though I'm not sure I see the A/C fan but it could jut be the angle.

snoopyloopy
07-12-2006, 04:10 PM
you're right, yeah thats like the first one I posted.
Anyways I think the second one I posted is a little better. so I'm going to work on that.
I think someone said that lightwave was like building things in the old versions of worldcraft. I used to build extensive maps in WC for Half-life, Quake. Those were the days, I could barely even run some of the maps they were so big... I wish I had all my things still. I mean on todays processors and ram it'll be no problem running the things I did. I know lightwave was used for Babylon 5, so I was interested in it, my school did teach lightwave for a while but then when a new instructor came Maya took it's place and that was when I was taking the 3D class.
Yes it does, and it even lets you use the stock fan. Though I'm not sure I see the A/C fan but it could jut be the angle.
no, looks like the downpipe eliminates the ac fan. you could always take out the ac condensor and run fans up there or run an extreme slimline for your ac since taking out the condensor kinda negates the need for an ac fan.

Swap_File
07-12-2006, 10:06 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/b20accord/DSCF0248-1.jpg

I like the looks of that manifold. How well does it all clear the radiator? And are there any problems with the weight of the turbo, since it is sticking so far out?

A20A1, those designs look good too, but like you said, its all a matter of making sure the manifold won't hit anything.

mkymonkey
07-12-2006, 10:11 PM
well i think the turbo is a t4 or a t3/t4 hybrid. its the setup that adam is running and the one he is curently selling. i like it to. i mean it looks like it would be the easiest to make since its just a straight foraward log mani. adamn is running a civic mini radiator so that would have to be done to run this setup. which in my opinion is not a big of a problem. i have already been looking at some fluidyne rads on ebay...damn those things are expensinve. but im willing to make the sacrifice :D

snoopyloopy
07-12-2006, 10:19 PM
what kind of turbo are you looking for? because i have a mitsu 14b on my eclipse. i could try to pry it off if you want measurements. but is that a good size to guestimate with or are you guys going to be using bigger units? because adam's looks like it's a bit bigger than a 14b.

mkymonkey
07-12-2006, 11:45 PM
wow dude...i think i may need to send you like a few bucks man...this looks like its taken you a lot of thinking. good fucking work!

dude i know this would probably take a lot of work...but can you make multiple views?

Swap_File
07-13-2006, 12:33 AM
http://www.t3flange.com/turbo.htm for all your turbo flange diagram needs.

The T3/T4 Hybrid is just a T3 turbine section with a T4 compressor I think.

I also have two T3s sitting in the shop if you need something else measured.

A20A1
07-13-2006, 10:30 AM
m..mu... multiple?

:(



:lol:
I'll try.

mkymonkey
07-13-2006, 10:42 AM
lol...you know what i mean...one from the side..another from the top. i would just like to see what youre seeing ya know?

A20A1
07-13-2006, 10:23 PM
i would just like to see what youre seeing ya know?

all I'm seeing is :redx: 's

:D

okay my brain is fixed.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sidemt.png
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/bends_ho.png

3rdgenhatchDX
07-14-2006, 03:21 PM
I'm saving my dough for one of these. I'm a definite buyer. i like that setup with the TD04L turbo tho, is it possible to get the header flanged for that turbo? Any reasons why or why not would be appreciated, i'm new to the turbo scene but i definitely want one! i work by a bypass, those damn subie's pull past with their turbo's and blow off valves all day gimme boost or gimme ...all motor i guess. :rockon:

reanimator420
07-14-2006, 04:21 PM
same here man,^^go all out or go home

A20A1
07-14-2006, 07:58 PM
did you also make that cool little car you have by you name? lol If so could you make me one of my car possibly? lol

dave

Yes,

Have any pics of your car? I will try.

AccordEpicenter
07-14-2006, 08:46 PM
the one on page 3 is almost exactly like mine. Tubular and somthing resembling a collector is much better than a log manifold. I feel the design i put together is pretty good all around, but if you had a ramhorn you might make a little more power. Either way its wayyyy better than a log. Im running a T3 and i had to notch the front beam and the front motor mount for clearance, plus i removed the ac compressor and bracket as well as the ac lines/reciever dryer and condenser fan. Clearance is tight

A20A1
07-14-2006, 10:21 PM
hello everyone, I came over from preludepower.com cause this site has so much info about a20s.
A manifold is the only thing stopping me from getting my turbo setup complete. I was going to have one made, but the price involved is way higher than this guy wants. So I want in. I'd be interested in the tubular style more, but will go with log if that is the consensus.


Looks like you have even less room to work with then the accord. I hope what ever manifold is made will work for you as well.

A20A1
07-14-2006, 10:59 PM
Okay fellas.

This uses only 90 degree bends, well nearly.
and ends right under the flange.
Also doesn't need starting pipes as there is enough space around each stud hole.
The only bad thing is the ports are not exactly centered.

I'll try to do a crude 3d model to show you more.

That overlapping center part where one pipe goes into the other. Well basicly all you do there is leave one side alone and notch the other pipe to fit over it.
Patients and a grinder will do wonders... I perfer a file though for the more sensitive areas.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce3.png

Its a bit off but the main idea is so you can see how the pipes run.

Maybe instead of the flange facing straight down we can tilt it towards the radiator.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce.gif

Sh!t, I have an even better Idea.


:( work work work.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce2.gif

Pipes 2 & 3 use a 35 degree section of pipe instead of a 90 or a 45, then a straight piece of pipe to merge it into 1 & 4
Now I did that in the 3D, I haven't confirmed it in illustrator.


EDIT: too many things to weld... Okay dicided on something slighly different,
maybe a "T" for # 2 and 3. I'll see how it works.

Short range bomber, :)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce3000.png


I finally got everything to fit and not be stupid and flow into eachother, I'll show you in a second, this image isn't a direct representation cause some angles and what not I just didn't want to bother making. I'll show you in the 3d version. You might think the overlapping is going to be bad but I know where to cut to make it work, and also the ports on the 1 & 4 are way to the outer edge but those can be hammered in a bit.

The turbo flange will come right out off cylinder # 2 & 3. It is at and angle facing down, it bites into the 90 degree angles that will face upwards. Basicly the flange connects to the outer curved wall of the 90 degree bend. The bends act as the guide for the downward angle of the flange.

Cylinder # 1 & 4 are routed the same way as the presious ones, but the 90 degree bend that is above cylinder 2 & 3 does not turn directly to the viewer as dipected in the image, it will angle down to face the flange.

Anyways I'll try and make one more 2D image before doing the 3D representation.


lets just say it'll try to be shorter then this. My real concern though is if there is room for spark plug wires, that and confirming all nuts can be installed and tightened.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/b20accord/DSCF0248-1.jpg


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce30001.png

Okay a big error on my part;
there is too much of a gap to fill with a weld between 1 & 2 , 3 & 4. So I'll have to raise the arch some.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/mani_o_mani.jpg

mkymonkey
07-15-2006, 12:47 AM
dude....youre so fucking awesome! that looks cool man!.....where is the f22parts guy at? i want to hear what he has to say about these drafts man....awesome!

AccordEpicenter
07-15-2006, 06:03 AM
All of these will get you boosted, guys. Longer runners seem to be better though, it just depends on what you can fit. I was actually thinking of a topmount a few days ago, so the turbo its right infront of the head more or less but the runners come off the exhaust flange into 90*s and go down near the oil pan and circle back up into a collector so the turbo is right up by the head. This might require cocking the flange to one side or the other for clearance and maybe requiring a half size radiator to make it work but it would work great.

theDougler
07-15-2006, 09:30 AM
nice job there a20a1 looks like that will work and not take up huge amounts of room at the same time

A20A1
07-15-2006, 02:22 PM
My final offering to the turbo gods.

x8 90* bends.

Straight pipe x2 0.5" long


Like above the flange will be placed at an angle and as close to the ports of cylinder 2 and 3 as possible.

walls will be added (welded) to focus/direct 2 & 3 towards the turbo and not up and around to #4 and #1
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce3003.pnghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/saucewall.pnghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce3005.png

A20A1
07-15-2006, 03:05 PM
To bolt on the manifold you will have to hold the nut over the hole and slide the stud into it. Maybe shorten the stud if needed.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/saucebolt.png



A little more complex and more pieces but a cleaner merge between outer and inner pipes.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/sauce3007.png

Legend_master
07-15-2006, 03:27 PM
A20 hit it right on the head with a log manifold that has the turbo centered and not to the right. There are actually benefits to a log over a equal length manifold, such as the turbo spooling faster. I vote for the log manifold, and will be picking one up in the future if they become available.

bobafett
07-15-2006, 04:22 PM
well im sure he can build a log manifold no sweat. he can either buy flanges from sam at bmc or build his own (dunno if he can get laser cut flanges made. :)) but once u have the flange, actually building the manifold is probably pretty straightforward if you know how to weld.


as for the manifold design, i need to get my hands on one of those modeling programs, and try to build a few designs... mike is there a downloadable version of the app u are using? or can u send me a 'demo'?

i too wouldnt mind making a topmount. it might make the downpipe angle a bit easier to work with, and will allow a stock engine mount. i dont have AC or PS, and i dont mind having to go with civic radiator if i decide i need it. :)

A20A1
07-15-2006, 04:57 PM
You could also try and relocate the turbo... I dunno maybe upsize the pipe diameter a little as you move from Cylinder #4 to Cly #1.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/lakepiped.jpg

Legend_master
07-15-2006, 05:08 PM
You could also try and relocate the turbo... I dunno maybe upsize the pipe diameter a little as you move from Cylinder #4 to Cly #1.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/lakepiped.jpg


That is another possibility, there is a memeber at Acura-legend.com that worked with a company out of arizona to built a turbo setup like that.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/334000-334999/334582_12_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/334000-334999/334582_31_full.jpg

A20A1
07-15-2006, 05:22 PM
Aie! What a nightmare. :)

Found one:
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/tk030p.jpg

AccordEpicenter
07-15-2006, 07:12 PM
a tubular or ramhorn type will decrease spool time and lag compared to a log due to the efficiency of flow and increased velocities inside the runners, plus with a more efficient manifold then you have better chances of preventing exhaust gas reversion back into the ports and back into the cylinders

F22Partscom
07-17-2006, 08:14 AM
Yes,
Have any pics of your car? I will try.

http://www.f22parts.com/projectf22.htm

Thanks. dave

F22Partscom
07-17-2006, 08:16 AM
dude....youre so fucking awesome! that looks cool man!.....where is the f22parts guy at? i want to hear what he has to say about these drafts man....awesome!


I am here reading and looking. You al are doing a Superb job keep up the good work until the finally blueprints are signed off on.

dave
Great Work again!!!

bobafett
07-17-2006, 09:26 AM
I don't recall reading any estimated prices yet in this thread.

Dave, do you have an idea of what a log or a ramhorn/tubular style manifold might cost us? also, do we need to choose a specific type of turbo flange to use, or would these be built to order, and allow us to choose our flange type?

Legend_master
07-17-2006, 11:51 AM
I don't recall reading any estimated prices yet in this thread.

Dave, do you have an idea of what a log or a ramhorn/tubular style manifold might cost us? also, do we need to choose a specific type of turbo flange to use, or would these be built to order, and allow us to choose our flange type?


from what I understand in this thread, they should be the same price as the ones already on his site. Here you go (http://www.f22parts.com/parts_page_Exhaust.htm)

ZackieDarko
07-17-2006, 01:41 PM
i thought i heard 400 ish on the 1st or 2nd page

F22Partscom
07-17-2006, 08:52 PM
I don't recall reading any estimated prices yet in this thread.

Dave, do you have an idea of what a log or a ramhorn/tubular style manifold might cost us? also, do we need to choose a specific type of turbo flange to use, or would these be built to order, and allow us to choose our flange type?

Hey they would be built to order letting you pick.

F22Partscom
07-17-2006, 08:53 PM
from what I understand in this thread, they should be the same price as the ones already on his site. Here you go (http://www.f22parts.com/parts_page_Exhaust.htm)

Correct, from what I see so far.

snoopyloopy
07-18-2006, 06:13 AM
well if the manifolds are being built to order based on what you have on your site already available for the f22, do we actually need to design a manifold (besides the clearance on a ramhorn) or can we just order now? or do you still need that a20 flange?

bobafett
07-18-2006, 07:01 AM
i would seriously hope that we are getting CNC'ed flanges so i would hope that even if we give him a flange it wouldnt help all that much. :)

not sure how that works in the manifold making business, and whether or not people share cad files for their flanges, but i know that sam at bmc has a20 flanges if you need to get a cad file from him, or if you just need to order the flanges directly from him.

A20A1
07-18-2006, 03:05 PM
I'd rather see a flange that makes it easier to merge our ovals to a circular pipe... so on the head side of the flange it's oval and on the turbo side it transistions to round. Not matching the diameters BTW, the flange port will be smaller to offer some resistance to opposing flow.

bobafett
07-18-2006, 03:44 PM
hmm i bet it would be easy to build a flange like that in a cad program. i wonder if it could be done with a 1/2" thickness. ;-)

www.emachineshop.com comes to mind. i downloaded their software, but i am very rusty on how to use CAD/3D modeling software. the cool thing is we could get a quote for the flange directly from the software, depending on material!

F22Partscom
07-18-2006, 04:56 PM
well if the manifolds are being built to order based on what you have on your site already available for the f22, do we actually need to design a manifold (besides the clearance on a ramhorn) or can we just order now? or do you still need that a20 flange?

We sure could us our design and locations with an A20 flange on it. Simply change here, unlike making a custom thin tubular design. We do not need a flange, thank you tho. At this time our flanges are hand made, we are still working on our CNC machine.

Everyone still wants something different tho... I still have some manifold on backorder from 2 months ago. So getting started now will bring them that much closer to having some available.

A20A1
07-19-2006, 09:38 AM
Thanks to a room under a house I now have cad.

...whats this button do?

:)

bobafett
08-02-2006, 03:04 PM
i held up my turbo with the stock radiator (with AC fan) and i couldnt even get the turbo inbetween the head and the radiator fan. I think even without the fan there is NO clearance for the manifold at all.

so for my setup I am definetly going to be running a civic half size radiator, which should afford me a lot more clearance. I will see if i can get 3d studio max or some other modeling program installed, and build up a couple different manifold designs.

can some people send me drawings for the flanges so i can get that part built up properly? or at least specs on the sizes of it all, so i can rebuilt it....

email is [email protected]

A20A1
08-02-2006, 03:15 PM
Damn, Cad seems a bit much for me. I only took a week class so not much for me to work with. I'm hopeful though. What is confusing at the moment is which format to build it in. There are different formats...

I think the version I have has 3D view to it... so at least there is that much.

I liked Ray Dream Design that came out 10 years ago or so... by Fractal Design that makes Painter and Expressions, I don't know if the company was bought out or dissapeared haven't seen anything from them on shelves in comp usa.

EricW
08-02-2006, 06:19 PM
Maybe if someone designed a set of brackets to mount the civic half size radiator they(f22parts.com) would be interested in selling those also. This would allow us to have a less compact manifold design and a little more space to work.

bobafett
08-02-2006, 07:01 PM
yeah i think the brackets would be pretty darn simple, but they may depend on if you are using a stock style radiator, or a super thick one.

maybe a set of 2 peice top brackets that are slotted, to allow the installer flexability in how far the radiator is spaced back from the original spot.

honestly it looks like an easy enough install to just sell a certain 'badass' manifold with a (MUST USE CIVIC HALF RADIATOR) disclaimer. although I really think there should be an ultimate manifold that takes advantage of all the space, with a car missing PS, AC, radiator. this would be the most open design, and wouldnt need to cut as many corners for the purpose of keeping stock accessories (stuff that many of us have removed)

turns out i am reaaly really bad at 3d modeling (hadn't touched it for like 6 years, so i forgot it all) so i am having a hell of a time building a manifold in Inivis AC3D (a shareware app)

A20A1
08-02-2006, 09:32 PM
You can also get maya but it has a watermark on everything you render.

bobafett
08-03-2006, 08:36 AM
my roomate has legit copy of the newest maya. $$$$$$$$$ maybe i can use his computer and try to crank something out!

stat1K
08-05-2006, 08:54 AM
You can also get maya but it has a watermark on everything you render.

you can get maya without the watermark... but that's illegal :huh:

snoopyloopy
08-05-2006, 09:25 AM
We sure could us our design and locations with an A20 flange on it. Simply change here, unlike making a custom thin tubular design. We do not need a flange, thank you tho. At this time our flanges are hand made, we are still working on our CNC machine.
Everyone still wants something different tho... I still have some manifold on backorder from 2 months ago. So getting started now will bring them that much closer to having some available.
so then basically, we could order now and you'd make it based off of designs you already have and just stick an a20 flange on instead?

F22Partscom
08-06-2006, 07:21 PM
Maybe if someone designed a set of brackets to mount the civic half size radiator they(f22parts.com) would be interested in selling those also. This would allow us to have a less compact manifold design and a little more space to work.

Hello again, We just finsihed pooring concrete in out current shop. Tomorrow we are moving some of the machines in. I have been busy with that stuff. Yes, we would love to make anything you guys mite need.

dave

F22Partscom
08-06-2006, 07:31 PM
so then basically, we could order now and you'd make it based off of designs you already have and just stick an a20 flange on instead?

Yes I really think this would be the best idea. Consider the first as a test model to work from and change up. Yes the first one mite not allow perfectly for fans,a/c or p/s but it a Start... Maybe the first one would be for someone making a drag car not with all the s/c and p/s ect. But either way it a start some far it’s come to a stand still.

I know AutoCAD and various other CNC drawing programs, they are all very hard and take year to draw even at the beginners level, like my self. Here is what I just drew.

mkymonkey
08-07-2006, 03:13 AM
Yes I really think this would be the best idea. Consider the first as a test model to work from and change up. Yes the first one mite not allow perfectly for fans,a/c or p/s but it a Start... Maybe the first one would be for someone making a drag car not with all the s/c and p/s ect. But either way it a start some far it’s come to a stand still.
I know AutoCAD and various other CNC drawing programs, they are all very hard and take year to draw even at the beginners level, like my self. Here is what I just drew.

pic link no work

bobafett
08-07-2006, 07:46 AM
Yes I really think this would be the best idea. Consider the first as a test model to work from and change up. Yes the first one mite not allow perfectly for fans,a/c or p/s but it a Start... Maybe the first one would be for someone making a drag car not with all the s/c and p/s ect. But either way it a start some far it’s come to a stand still.
I know AutoCAD and various other CNC drawing programs, they are all very hard and take year to draw even at the beginners level, like my self. Here is what I just drew.

i would be happy to do something like this. i have no PS/AC and i am going to switch to a half wide civic radiator to make clearance for manifold/turbo.

:) but i don't want a log... the more tubular elr, the better. :D

F22Partscom
08-07-2006, 09:47 PM
pic link no work

example only.

F22Partscom
08-07-2006, 09:48 PM
i would be happy to do something like this. i have no PS/AC and i am going to switch to a half wide civic radiator to make clearance for manifold/turbo.
:) but i don't want a log... the more tubular elr, the better. :D


maybe someone else then?

pic did not work for me?

bobafett
08-08-2006, 08:59 AM
rofl...

A20A1
08-08-2006, 10:02 AM
Do you have a photobucket account?
They print the code and the image location for you under each image you upload.

F22Partscom
09-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Hello? What happened here? All of the effort stopped ?

Legend_master
09-12-2006, 07:43 PM
Hello? What happened here? All of the effort stopped ?


So what all do you need to make this happen?

snoopyloopy
09-13-2006, 03:09 PM
Hello? What happened here? All of the effort stopped ?
my effort hasn't stopped, it's just that my wallet has a leash on my effort.

bobafett
09-13-2006, 03:50 PM
can you get access to a donor car or at least a head and block so that we have some way to get the best fitment possible?

I can't speak for the rest of us, but I want to know that my manifold would have ideal placement of turbo but also considering if we want 3" dp and external gate etc, that it will all work, and not just be a manifold built at the expense of design just to make sure that it will 'for sure' fit because we would basically have to guess on clearances since you don't have donor car to get your hands dirty with.

Your manifolds look beatiful, and if we could really know what they would look like for an A20 I'm sure you would have buyers for your prototype stuff (assuming it all fits right). My suggestion for you (not trying to tell you how to do your job, since we all know you are doing us a favor by thinknig about making these) is to make a log, make a top mount, and make a ram horn. let us buy them and use them, and assuming it all fits and works good, you can start making more.

If I see that you made a nice nonlog (i can get a log made locally) I would probably be willing to shell out.

EricW
09-13-2006, 09:08 PM
I would buy a ram horn manni if it was produced.

shepherd79
09-19-2006, 12:52 PM
do we have any progress with this one?

ChaseR
09-19-2006, 01:24 PM
Yes, I would buy any manifold if it were produced, you betcha...

leem
09-30-2006, 02:21 PM
What happened with the turbo manifold guys?

gfrg88
10-01-2006, 01:03 AM
What happened with the turbo manifold guys?

everyone backed out......

ChaseR
10-01-2006, 03:25 AM
Shit I didn't...

mkymonkey
10-01-2006, 07:32 AM
yeah i havent either....i have yet to see a finished product. then again i guess no one has commited to buying one yet. so i guess you are right, we have backed out....sorta

MessyHonda
10-01-2006, 10:07 AM
damn this would of been cool....i see alot of 3geez....some one needs to make cards so we can leave them on the windshield....anyways like i said i was maybe thinking turbo on stock internals....6 pounds would be nice...

ChaseR
10-01-2006, 02:24 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of 9psi on stock internals, the closed deck design would allow for that... Especially if you re-did your pistons. It seems the relatively low compression of the A20 would allow for that...

ZackieDarko
10-01-2006, 03:05 PM
pshhh 9psi?

9psi if you didnt do a thing to the stock stuff...but say..if you rebuilt it to OEM spec you could do a bit more no problem..A20 internals are beefy :)

MessyHonda
10-01-2006, 03:15 PM
pshhh 9psi?
9psi if you didnt do a thing to the stock stuff...but say..if you rebuilt it to OEM spec you could do a bit more no problem..A20 internals are beefy :)

justin told me he was running 8psi on stock internals....remember the more psi the more tunning you have to do....if i ever turbo im going to run 6-9.

ChaseR
10-01-2006, 05:12 PM
eh 8-9 same diff right?

bobafett
10-02-2006, 06:58 AM
yeah we are waiting, and willing to pay man, show us some magic and we'll buy!

gfrg88
10-02-2006, 08:51 AM
didnt you guys see his link?? thats the work he does, check out his ebay store too. i would of sent him money with a gasket but im broke ass hell right now :(

snoopyloopy
10-04-2006, 02:20 PM
can they be made without the wastegate flange? and with a mitsu bolt turbo flange...?

ChaseR
10-04-2006, 02:36 PM
I know i have a ton of cash burning a hole in my pocket, one of these comes availiable let me know, Im down!

snoopyloopy
10-04-2006, 02:41 PM
they're available right now. all you have to do is tell the guy you want one and send him the flange. or was it just the gasket he wanted? either way, he said if you're ready to order, you can order a log right now. maybe even a tubular. the only one that's really in limbo is the ram horn.