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HostileJava
07-22-2006, 12:37 PM
Just thought I'd throw this out there since I had an experience with it today. Just so that it's here if anyone ever decides to use the search feature. As some of you know I've been working on my 1st gen odyssey, making it a little quicker, dressing up the engine bay, and upgrading the brakes. I decided to order one of the cheapie ground kits from ebay. They make all kinds of crazy claims like 8-10hp and what not, but I figured at the very least I might get a smoother idle.Here's the one I got. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=150005283538&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT) Well long story short I diconnected the battery, pulled all the old grounds and ran a ground wire to every ground location. There were 2 direct grounds from the battery to the chassis and 3-4 other locations where there were grounds from the chassis to a major component. After I reconnected the battery I turned the van key to the accessory position and all my stuff worked. I figured great, I'm good to go. Turned the key and one loud click then everything died. I was sweating bullets, I thought I screwed somthing up big time. I disconnected the battery, got my multimeter out and started checking all the ground connections. Turns out the damn kit is aluminum and coated with a gold paint. I just assumed it was a brushed copper/nickel type finish. The paint is NOT conductive. I had to pull the whole thing apart and took the metal dremel brush to every peice that made contact with the battery or another cable. Put it all back together, tested the ground again, connected the battery, and walla the van started right up and it actually does idle a tad smoother. It's hard to believe that they don't clean the contact area's of any paint before they ship these things, but I guess you get what you pay for. Perhaps mine just missed the cleaning or maybe this is how they prevent the contacts from corroding while they are stored I don't know. But I figure this will save the rest of you some headaches if you decide to do this later on.

A20A1
07-22-2006, 12:58 PM
Well they base it on a stock system that was degraded... they made around 17 hp on a supra that had old wires and what not. But really they just got back the hp that was lost from bad electrical connections. This was with a namebrand kit.


I would have bought a name brand one... you're pretty much assured quality that way. The one you got looks like a knock off. The paint is to make it look like more expensive connections.

I didn't check if they listed the materials used in construction, but I would check those out too before buying.



Thanks for the write up though, at least we know to avoid these, or at least scrub off the cheezy paint.

.
.

HostileJava
07-22-2006, 01:15 PM
I would have bought a name brand one... you're pretty much assured quality that way. The one you got looks like a knock off. The paint is to make it look like more expensive connections.

I didn't check if they listed the materials used in construction, but I would check those out too before buying.
.

Oh, the way it looked in the auction and the price I paid, there was no doubt that it was a knockoff. The whole thing appears to be made of aluminum so it's pretty conductive, I suppose copper would have been better but would have corroded alot faster. But you figure conductive metal is conductive metal. And the whole thing is well put together. The problem was just the paint on the contact area's. I suppose the moral is you can spend a bit more money and get one that has clean contacts or you can cheap out and do some of the work yourself. I'd love it if you could find the article you read that in though. I doubt I gained any real hp, but maybe I'll get better gas mileage and the engine is def smoother while sitting at the light.

A20A1
07-22-2006, 01:19 PM
I'll see if I can find the article and scan it.

HostileJava
07-22-2006, 01:25 PM
After looking around online abit at the other kits, it seems there are the cheapies in the price range I got mine and then there are ones that look almost exactly like mine and are made of light metals but plated in gold and start around $100. I think I made the right choice in going with the cheaper kit, I mean i know gold is a better conductor, but not $80+ better :) Do you remember if the kit you saw the article on was plated in gold?

Hash_man_Se_i
07-22-2006, 01:33 PM
One of my friends tried a sun auto grounding kit on his 03 Accord v6. only other mod he has is an injen CAI.

On a mustang dyno the ground kit made 8whp gain, I was pretty impressed. But ya, on an older car, it'd make a much bigger difference like a20 said.

HostileJava
07-22-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm really suprised to hear you guys saying it made that much of a difference on a stock setup. Maybe I'll push the van hard on the way home and see what it feels like, we all know how accurate seat of your pants is :D It didn't even occur to me to bother pushing it on the way to work because I wasn't expecting much in the way of performance and I've been working hard at keeping up my fuel economy the way gas prices are now.

king86
07-22-2006, 01:55 PM
WOW never new any of that, its a good thing u posted. keep me informed!:)

ICEMAN707
07-22-2006, 04:56 PM
next time you guys should get the ones with the voltage stabilizer box. that's the real stuff.

89accordex4dr
07-22-2006, 05:22 PM
I got a ground kit and a volt stabilizer box and it made my car feel more responsive

ghettogeddy
07-22-2006, 05:46 PM
whats a good kit to buy

EricW
07-22-2006, 06:51 PM
I made my own out of some 4 gauge heat and chemical resistant wire.

You can see it here next to the end of the strut tower bar.
http://www.knology.net/~ericrw/Pics/Strut%20Bar/Front%20Strut%20Bar%203.gif

One I have 4 wires one to the back of the Alternator, one to the Battery, one to the tranny ground, and one to a bolt on the engine. Those four connect to one which goes to the frame. I also upgraded the one from the valve cover to the frame.

HostileJava
07-23-2006, 01:46 AM
next time you guys should get the ones with the voltage stabilizer box. that's the real stuff.

I have a 1 farad cap I was gonna throw in the engine bay, that will work just fine as a "voltage stabalizer".

Hash_man_Se_i
07-23-2006, 11:09 AM
next time you guys should get the ones with the voltage stabilizer box. that's the real stuff.

Ya thats what was used in my friends car when he netted the 8whp gain. The sun auto kits are the real deal, and are really nice.

MessyHonda
07-24-2006, 02:29 PM
i might use some of that if i get a HO alt. my friend had it on his acura and he said that it gave him better mpg..i was like wtf from wires?

Cheeseburger
07-24-2006, 02:38 PM
hey java do you have any pics on how it looks on ur Odyssey

king86
07-24-2006, 06:22 PM
where did you put the cap in the circuit?? could you send me a diy? i have a E cap 500.000 that i took out of my trunk, would it work?

FyreDaug
07-24-2006, 06:51 PM
Id probably put the cap between the alt and battery

HostileJava
07-25-2006, 06:29 AM
where did you put the cap in the circuit?? could you send me a diy? i have a E cap 500.000 that i took out of my trunk, would it work?

If your installing it to upgrade the electrical system for the stereo you should probably install it as close to the amp(s) as possible. Otherwise you can install it in the engine bay in parallel with the battery.That's where it will affect the most electrical systems in the car. Basically that just means hook the + on the battery to the + on the cap and the - on the battery to the - on the cap. Any time there is a quick extra draw of current on the system the battery has to react quickly to supply that, if it can't react quick enough(chemically it can only react so fast) you get a voltage drop. The capacitor can react much more quickly and eliminate any voltage drops.


hey java do you have any pics on how it looks on ur Odyssey

I'm probably gonna install the cap tomorrow, I'll try to get pics either way.

3G Jester
07-25-2006, 08:09 AM
i got a j30a1 v6. man. that was like ...100 more hp..you guys should try it :D hahaha...
they painted the connections to make it look gold...or something more expensive...i contemplated getting a cheap one or make one myself. some people sware up and down that the expensive ones are the best and im sure their quality and construction is superior. but for the price..the cheap one will do just fine. but ive pretty much made up my mind..no more engine mods whatsoever really. its not worth it when i could be doing my interior work....seeing as how over hte next year and a half i will be doing the acura CL-S 3.2 6sp MT and MDX 3.5 guts build with possible twin turbo set up ;)
man. its gonna be fun.

Cheeseburger
07-25-2006, 09:36 AM
I'm probably gonna install the cap tomorrow, I'll try to get pics either way.

thanks bro! i just want to see how it looks like

HostileJava
07-25-2006, 09:40 AM
i got a j30a1 v6. man. that was like ...100 more hp..you guys should try it :D hahaha...
they painted the connections to make it look gold...or something more expensive...i contemplated getting a cheap one or make one myself. some people sware up and down that the expensive ones are the best and im sure their quality and construction is superior. but for the price..the cheap one will do just fine. but ive pretty much made up my mind..no more engine mods whatsoever really. its not worth it when i could be doing my interior work....seeing as how over hte next year and a half i will be doing the acura CL-S 3.2 6sp MT and MDX 3.5 guts build with possible twin turbo set up ;)
man. its gonna be fun.

Less talk, more results and stop whoring up my thread :)

3gmodifier
07-25-2006, 02:06 PM
sounds like it worked alright for u. i have a voltage stabelizer that i am going to use with some 2 gauge wire. also if any one is interested a friend of mine has his own custom shop and he now sells these caps that are the shape of a small jet ski battery but they are rated at 100 fareds and up. there is so much power storing that u can actually substitute one of these for your battery. they are fucking awesome. as soon as i get some more money i will do an install and show u guys.

HostileJava
07-27-2006, 03:01 AM
I didn't get the cap in yet, but here's a pictures of the install in the van(ignore all the dirt):

http://hostilejava.com/Tire_Header/CIMG1464%20(Small).JPG

http://hostilejava.com/Tire_Header/CIMG1465%20(Small).JPG

http://hostilejava.com/Tire_Header/CIMG1466%20(Small).JPG

I couldn't really tell much difference in power, and it may be a fluke, but the last tank of gas I got, got about 15miles more out of it and I didn't drive any differently then I normally do.

Cheeseburger
07-27-2006, 04:00 AM
looks good Jim! looks like i am going to do this in the near future

2oodoor
07-28-2006, 09:18 AM
Dang Java, You have the mini van rockin , the header looks badass awesome. I have never even heard of this ground kit thing, I have to research it now. Is that something for OBD2 cars or any cars or what.

ghettogeddy
07-28-2006, 09:26 AM
so what did u ground alt, starter, motor, tranny,

2oodoor
07-28-2006, 09:41 AM
Ok, I see why it works now. It connects the whole electrical system ground (grommet) much like a circuit board. In other words the components in your car are enhanced to perform as efficient as if they were on the same circuit board. Less sampling time, better isolation. The theory makes sense to me just by comparing it to televisions or home stereo equipment chasis/operation. It is just hard to bite on why dont the vehicles (which are state of the art) come that way to begin with.

HostileJava
07-28-2006, 11:28 AM
so what did u ground alt, starter, motor, tranny,

It's grounded in 2 places to the chasis, to the alternator, and to the valve cover if I remember correctly. I'll probably add a few more grounds when I'm installing my new oem fogs. This was just a quick install to get the thing in there. But looking at all the wiring and shit I have to move around to get the OEM fog wiring harness installed it looks like I'll have a chance to do more.

I have plans to hopefully install the foglights, extra ground wires, cap, and precut window tint this weeekend. If I end up having free time that is. I'll get pics up of the full install when it's done.


Ok, I see why it works now. It connects the whole electrical system ground (grommet) much like a circuit board. In other words the components in your car are enhanced to perform as if they were on the same circuit board. Less sampling time, better isolation. The theory makes sense to me just by comparing it to televisions or home stereo equipment operation. It is just hard to bite on why dont the vehicles (which are state of the art) come that way to begin with.

Basically yes, although I don't know why newer vehicles don't have better electrical systems to begin with.

nskforlife
10-08-2006, 10:20 AM
i'm sorry, but that odyssey now looks 1 apc sticker away from being trashed. That kit looks cheaper than one i could make myself. i grounded my valve cover with 6guage wire and i noticed a pretty big difference in throttle response and torque. but that thing looks like overkill and crap. why not remove that kit and build yourself a more efficient one. runnin ground wires 1/2 way across your engine bay: 1, doesn't look good; and 2. wouldn't ground as good as running a wire to the chassis. Run a good size wire from your negative terminal to the chassis, then run all your accessories your gonna ground to the closest location on the chassis.

wires look trashy, why do you think that people tuck wires???? it gives it a cleaner look.

HostileJava
10-08-2006, 04:36 PM
i'm sorry, but that odyssey now looks 1 apc sticker away from being trashed. That kit looks cheaper than one i could make myself. i grounded my valve cover with 6guage wire and i noticed a pretty big difference in throttle response and torque. but that thing looks like overkill and crap. why not remove that kit and build yourself a more efficient one. runnin ground wires 1/2 way across your engine bay: 1, doesn't look good; and 2. wouldn't ground as good as running a wire to the chassis. Run a good size wire from your negative terminal to the chassis, then run all your accessories your gonna ground to the closest location on the chassis.

wires look trashy, why do you think that people tuck wires???? it gives it a cleaner look.

Tell you what, get a decent multimeter and meaure the resistance across an 18" 8 guage wire and then meaure the resistance from your neg battery terminal to the valve cover. The resistance will be greater on the latter. Of course like I said you'll need a decent multimeter to do that (ie. one that retails for $100 or more). But I suppose you'll just tell me that you know better, even though I did go to school for electrical engineering. Oh and don't bother using the "it looks bad" argument, I could care less how it looks, it's function over form for some of us. Everything in that enginebay either improved performance or will once the vehicle is tuned. I could care less that there are now more wires in there or that the colors don't match. Do I clean the enginebay so it looks nice? Do I install performance upgrades that also have visual appeal? Yes. Will I only buy and install a part in the enginebay if it matches the color of my car or because it makes it look prettier. No! It's great if you've got information to share, but don't insult other peoples rides or spread misinformation. A larger ground wire is definetly better then stock, but it's not better then a direct ground to the battery.

smufguy
10-08-2006, 07:38 PM
I have seen, Jim's van in person half a dozen times over, its not ricy or whatever you call it or term it to be. The pictures might not do the justice, but the kit does more than what he paid for it. I am not gonna call you a liar or that ur hallucinating with your butt dyno on this 'big difference' in torque you just mentioned, cuz its not true. You will notice a difference in the idle for sure. I grounded my valve cover with a 24inch 6Gauge wire and noticed NOTHING except a better idle. it also could be that i replaced the cap, rotor, wires and plugs. honestly, there was no gain in 'power' or 'torque' whatsoever.

MessyHonda
10-08-2006, 08:50 PM
^^yup half the mods wont make you gain anything but a more reliable connection. im going to do all my ground wires to see if it helps....not like i need it but 18 year old wires should be replaced with something more upgraded.

nskforlife
10-11-2006, 08:11 PM
I have seen, Jim's van in person half a dozen times over, its not ricy or whatever you call it or term it to be. The pictures might not do the justice, but the kit does more than what he paid for it. I am not gonna call you a liar or that ur hallucinating with your butt dyno on this 'big difference' in torque you just mentioned, cuz its not true. You will notice a difference in the idle for sure. I grounded my valve cover with a 24inch 6Gauge wire and noticed NOTHING except a better idle. it also could be that i replaced the cap, rotor, wires and plugs. honestly, there was no gain in 'power' or 'torque' whatsoever.

ok. first off, your condition of your car, isn't going to be the same condition that my car is going to be in. soooo...... when you say that it didn't make a big difference, you have no way to justify this other than by saying you replaced yours with 24in (what'd you do, tie your engine up with the cable??? oem cables are at tops 14 inches, and my new one's about 12inches) 6guage wire and didn't see no results other than better idle?!? where i'm not einstein at all, but here i go.

resistance controls how much current can run through a given product.
now having said that, there is different internal resistance in wire. depending on by the guage, and the type of material the wire is made out of.
so with what your telling me, there is going to be NO power advantage on putting less RESISTANCE ON THE ENGINE by replacing the valve cover ground wire.
now i'm not trying to make you look like an idiot on a forumboard, but make sure you know what your talking about before you want to justify reasoning to your car. if it made no hp difference, why would people make Grounding kits telling you they make more horsepower.

let me ask you another question, since i'm on the topic of resistance, if you put 1 inch piping on a turbo'd car, would their be a loss in power??? yes, cause theres excessive Exhaust flow resistance by the size of the piping.
so why would you not see a power difference,???

i'm sorry , but your wrong buddy.

:thumbdn:

i'll give it to ya java, i am wrong about less resistance by grounding to the chassis, you are gonna get less resistance by running it to the neg. terminal as long as its a big enough wire, but it still doesn't look good. and i guarantee you wouldn't see a negative effect by running the wire to the chassis. if there was negative effects, amps would be ran back to the negitave terminal instead of onto the chassis.
you could've made yourself a better looking, lower costing grounding harness without that, but then again you dont care about looks or any of the above i mentioned so i'll leave your car alone.
sorry to piss you off, just giving you my feedback.

HostileJava
10-11-2006, 08:27 PM
now i'm not trying to make you look like an idiot on a forumboard, but make sure you know what your talking about before you want to justify reasoning to your car. if it made no hp difference, why would people make Grounding kits telling you they make more horsepower.

Because they want to make money. Just because you lower the resistance to allow more current to flow through the wire, doesn't mean it will make a difference. Sure if the stock ground in your car was making a poor connection or falling apart it will definetly give you some more power, but nothing that you hadn't had before and just slowly lost over time as the wire deteriated. Those claims that they add 10-15hp or whatever are rediculous. Maybe on a modded car with the voltage stablizer you might see a 10-15hp gain. On a stock car with just a ground upgrade kit, you won't see that much hp gain if the grounds are in decent shape. If all it took was using slightly different size ground wire to add 10hp why didn't the OEM just do that in the first place? I'm out for the night, if you want to argue about it more it will have to wait till tomorrow :)

smufguy
10-12-2006, 06:33 AM
I think you are missing the point here. ONE grounding wire being replaced, is NOT going to give you a noticeable difference, unless the existing one was not functioning properly, which then would negate the whole justification of this issue.

Yo do not have to worry about me looking like an idiot or whatever you call me to be, because I know what i am talking about and its no way questioning your smartness. If thats what you think, then you are wrong.

Resistance inreases by length as we all know, for the same given material. The reason why we have different gauges is to compensate for the resistance and thus they recommend low gauge (bigger diameter) for longer wires AKA battery relocation kits being a low gauge longer wire. So you do not have to educate me about resistance and amperage loss, since I may know way more than you think i do.

You are not trying to piss anyone off here since we senior members tend to look at the technicality of ones perspective rather than just the claim of the statement made. Yo do not know in what condition my car is, thus my claim on MY car does not attest to your car's behaviour in relations to the change of just one grounding cable.

Using gas flow dynamics to prove electron flow in a wire is not a valid statement. Gas flow has different features such as velocity, temperature, pressure, volumetic flow, turbulance and linearity and such. flow in a control volume such as a pipe does not have the same behavior as a current flow in a conductive wire.

PS: As you mentioned, people make grounding kits (meaning bunch of wires), not a product by the name Grounding Wire. Read few things on this board, before you make claims and start calling people names. ;)

nskforlife
10-12-2006, 04:04 PM
I think you are missing the point here. ONE grounding wire being replaced, is NOT going to give you a noticeable difference, unless the existing one was not functioning properly, which then would negate the whole justification of this issue.


does, 18 years of oxidation count?????


Sure if the stock ground in your car was making a poor connection or falling apart it will definetly give you some more power, but nothing that you hadn't had before and just slowly lost over time as the wire deteriated.


On a stock car with just a ground upgrade kit, you won't see that much hp gain if the grounds are in decent shape.

rust eating away at a wire for the past i dont know how many years will deteriorate metal, thus giving you a poor connection. and no, you wont gain 10-15 hp on replacing wiring on 3g's guaranteed! but if your wire is that poor it will pull 10-15 hp from the car. my buddy has a gsr civic, it had a bad ground, it bogged down shifting from 2nd up all the way to 5th. after he replaced it, his car would pull better on cars that could keep up with him...
i'm not saying i gained any more power by replacing it, i just got back the power that i've been losing over the 18 years this car has been there, and it made a huge, noticeable difference.