JDM B16A Manifold On B20A / Also Fits A20A

[Justanothermike]

this is a jdm B16a manifold on the B20. The manifold is far supperior over the a20 or b20 manifolds, with larger, shorter, and more direct ports. the manifold has increased top end preformance significantly. its time for a set of cams:)

http://openloopmotorsports.com/B16man1.jpg

http://openloopmotorsports.com/B16man2.jpg

http://openloopmotorsports.com/B16man3.jpg

[carotman]

Looks sweet!!!!

Was it real hard to modify? Did you do any portmatch?


I see that you got rid of the Vacuum distributor as well!

What ECU is it running now?


(lots of questions!)

[Justanothermike]

haha i knew u'd notice that!! its running a 90-91 prelude SI ecu now. simple upgrade its just u need to get the distributor and a braket to mount the distributor, forget where it came from.

The manifold was port matched with the head and JDM throttle body is installed aswell.

[ACCORD EX]

BTW you need to add PS fluid in your car ! :lol :D

MIKE

[carotman]

Nice,

do me a favor and find where that crank sensor and distributor came from :)


Well, I have the original B20A distributor, I might use that one instead :)

I guess that the 90-91 teg ecu would work too.

[2Fast_Fiero]

Since I see you guys do the most amazing things like what Justanothermike did, what all would I need to install the B16A Manifold onto my A20A3? BTW, that looks sweet man, I'm not gonna do a swap yet until atleast a year from now, I'm just gonna supe up this engine, then either sell it or keep it cleaned up on a nice engine stand in my garage.

[MoonScryer]

Mike: tell your people good work as always....and hmmm, it clears the hood...I'm glad I was wrong :D

[pric]

Did you dyno the B20 before and after the upgrade? Do you think you lost any low end with the B16 intake?

Oh BTW nice job can't wait to see more pics and some dyno results and track times.

[Sean]

this has got my curiosity peaked to say the least. what the part # on the prelude ecu ?? might have a hack for it.

[PhydeauX]

heh as soon as you mention ecus.. :b

Its nice to see somone finally did this, I remember spending atleast a week reading loads of crap and trying to get my hands on a b16a manifold gasket to find out if it would work. What did you have to do for the injectors, and did the water pipe on the manifold interfere with anything?

andy

[smufguy]

Looks soo clean too, this pic is going on my website if u dont mind. hehehe, this is soooooooooo damn hot. time to kick all those asses on the road

[night]

that would be an ITR mani

[Sean]

hey just another mike would you consider selling these to the masses prefitted. i think it would make a decent buck. ayways how much for the manifold. i want it for my a20 turb project.

[My 89 Accord Lxi]

nice that looks sweet

[Vanilla Sky]

would that 90-91 SI ECU work on an a20? same about the intake manifold

that thing looks like it has had some seriously top notch work done, props to the entire shop

if the manifold fits an a20, i may be getting one, possibly an USDM one from the scrapyard to save money

Derick

[Bullfrog]

Hey mike you wouldnt want to give a parts list and a brief rundown of your project...i like the idea of no vacum hoses shit to mess up...plus it looks like your getting a better air intake too...oh and what do the numbers stand for sorry i never caught that part in my honda training on the board...

[POS carb]

u have 2 fuel pressure regulators... what for?

that engine looks f00kin sweet in there!

[Justanothermike]

the thing at the end of the fuel rail is a pressure dampener. the crank sensor and distributor are from the prelude. The ecu is a PK2 and the fuel rail is from an integra.

funstick: i think ur best bet would be to get the ITR manifold. it can be modified exactly the same way and the runners are even shorter and the plenum is closer to the head.

[2Fast_Fiero]

How good will a USDM B16A Intake Manifold do for my A20A3 engine? and if it will be a good thing, what will I need to install it and for it to run right?

[Sean]

look back from the dead. mike where are you mr openloop.??? anyways i dont think the ITR manidold is what i need. i need good off boost low end TQ. plus low rpm flow velocity helps the turbo spool much more effectively. i have a thoery one that but i dont have time to squash or float the idea. anyways thats is a stock b16a manifold or the itr im asking becuase i dont need packaging trouble ?

[Justanothermike]

yeah i see wut u mean. its the same thing with intercooler piping. the larger the piping the more air flow but the more lag time cuz the turbos gotta fill up all that space with the pressurized intake air.

[Sean]

hmm ive got a pretty compact ic pipping setup and what not. so thats not really a concern. my issue is with having enough vacum and static off boost airlfow to keep the engien making decent TQ till spool up. then again having a lot of intake velocity is like kickstarting the turbo as well. keepping it spinning even at low speeds is well worth the effort. reduced boost lag is the result.

[PortugalHonda]

That looks mad sweet in there man Awesome Job!!!

[joker2]

So is that the USDM B16 manifold or what???:confused:

[bobafett]

well i didnt get this info out of the thread, but could this b16a intake manifold work on an a20a3 without too many headaches, or would the 86-87 manifold suffice?

[joker2]

Well, from what I know, the b16 manifold will fit on the A20 but you'll have to tab it for like 4 new bolt holes, which isn't hard at all to do.....

[bobafett]

so i would have to just drill different holes in the b16 manny, or something on our car?

i have a friend who bought a skunk2 intake manny for his SI, and he said i could have his stock manifold, is this worth my while, or is it pointless unless i am running a performance manfold from the b16a?

does that even make sense!?

[joker2]

Yeah, you will have to drill like 4 new holes into the head so the intake will fit..... The b16 manifold is not a performance manifold it's just a better manifold then many but to our cars, it is....... If you're boy is willing to give it to you then you better jump on it........

[bobafett]

hmm so its easy enough to modify onto my car? well if it will "help" i might as well jump on it like you said. cool i will call him up and see if he's still got it. he offered it to me a few weeks ago, hopefully it hasnt dissapeared yet!

[joker2]

Once you get it, you should have your head port matched to the manifold because the openings(ports) on the manifold are going to be larger than the openings(ports) on your head...... This is how you maximize the performance of that manifold......:D

[bobafett]

;)
cool, and how long/how expensive is this process?

if its something i could do in a weekend i would be all over that.

any tenative guesses as to the power that i could gain from this? at this point i am thinking that a bigger TB would be a smart plan! any pointers in that department.

[joker2]

Well, if you're not experienced in porting than I would take it to a shop and depending on the shop I can't see it costing you that much....... Most of the power you will feel will be in the top end..... Larger TB will be a great addition as well but also remember that when you're adding more air it's good to add more fuel..... That's when you start looking into an adjustable fuel reg., larger injectors and possible a better fuel bump..... But you might not need all of those right off the back but I would at least go with the FPR.......:D

[bobafett]

hmm, the pics i posted look different than mikes manifold....i hope it will still work...

also, would it behoove me to snag a fuel rail from a teg or civic SI?

and how likely am i to find the fuel rail/ TB from a car with the b16? is it gonna be a 3 month treasure hunt or not? i havent ever dug around in those cars at the junkyard... anyway, heres my manifold.

http://home.attbi.com/~humphrey.c/intake1.gif
http://home.attbi.com/~humphrey.c/intake2.gif
http://home.attbi.com/~humphrey.c/intake3.gif
http://home.attbi.com/~humphrey.c/intake4.gif

[joker2]

Yeah, they look just a little different but that could be because Mike's is a JDM manifold....... As long as you hook up your sensors correctly than there shouldn't be a problem...... If I were you I would talk to Mike to see if he could give you any tips on sensor location and maybe the difference between the two......

[A20A1]

good thread to bring back....

[Sabz5150]

With the swapped manifold on an A20, what happens with the EGR plumbing and valve/lift sensor? If they're removed, how is the computer faked into not throwing a code every time?

[A20A1]

just unbolt the EGR I suppose and leave it hanging. :D

[joker2]

Well, I've been working on this mod for like 3 months now and I can tell you one thing, there's a lot of work that goes into this swap......... This mod is easier for engines that don't have a ton of vacuum lines..... There's a lot of grinding and drilling involved which makes it more than a 2 day project..... I have everything worked out so far except for the EGR sensor because the b16 doesn't have one so there's nowhere to retro fit it to the mani...... I disconnected mine at the connector just to see if it would throw a code but it didn't...... All it did is idle funny like I had a bad thermostat..... But I might try what you said A20A1 and leave it connected so the ECU sees that its still there but zip tie it out of the way somewhere...... Hopefully that will solve the idle problem.....:confused:

[Sabz5150]

Originally posted by A20A1
just unbolt the EGR I suppose and leave it hanging. :D

The ECU will get so PISSED :lol

I saw that on Openloop's white Accord, they were able to remove the black box, EGR and all the other goodies. Is there anyone (nudge nudge wink wink Openloop ;) ) that could give me info on how to do that?

[bobafett]

oooih i would love to be able to get rid of all that shit... :)

mike help! :)

[joker2]

But the thing is you don't have to remove your black box to make this work.... The only thing you'll be doing is minimizing the amount of vacuum lines you'll be using....... The reason Mike removed his is because he's running a completely different setup, that b20.......

[Sabz5150]

That's his grey one. The white one is an A20A3. That's the one with the stuff removed.

[joker2]

I don't think the white one is running a b16 mani. as well but I could be wrong........ Might need Mike to clear this up a little.... But as far as I do know, you won't need to remove the black box because I didn't......

[toastyghost]

Originally posted by joker2
That's when you start looking into an adjustable fuel reg., larger injectors and possible a better fuel bump.....

yeah and a bumber lip

[goldyaccord]

Originally posted by toastyghost
yeah and a bumber lip Hey, Don't forget that Blinker fluid. that'll help with Stopping

[toastyghost]

yeah blinker fluid is key :lol

[bobafett]

omg the bumber again! :)

[joker2]

Sorry, I don't get it:huh:

[adams86lxi]

That motor looks sweet!:)

[bobafett]

Originally posted by joker2
Sorry, I don't get it:huh:

there was a thread a while ago where i newb kept saying bumber and it drove me nuts so i heckled them a bit! :P

and now the bumber is back... :D ehheeh

[toastyghost]

haha yeah there were a few of those and i was like DUDE WHAT IS A FUCKING BUMBER
if you still don't get it then find a different honda board or something :)

[joker2]

Yeah, ok:rolleyes: But thanks for clearing that up bobafett.......

[Versanick]

Okay so what prevents me from drilling new holes in the intake manifold instead of new holes in the head?

I have a gold-top b20a, but I'm using the stock 86 a20 LX-i manifold, and after having a head porting, it slows me down a lot. The vacuum lines are out of control, and with the crazy cams I'm using, the car won't idle.

Regardless, my friend with a b16a (99 civic si motor) is getting a turbo set up, and he'll give me his intake manifold (YAY!)...

What prevents me from just drilling new holes on the manifold instead of drilling into my head... I'd much rather ruin a manifold by making bad holes than smack extra holes into my head. Although it would be nice to be able to bolt on any intake at a later time, if I drilled properly...

What do you dudes reccomend?

I definitely plan to use the intake... I just want to know why you don't drill new holes in the manifold plate instead of the head. Because then, what intake gasket would you use? Would you modify a b16a one or use a b20/a20 one?

Plus I want to get rid of the 193,332 vacuum lines all over the place that are probably not helping a damn soul. Vince's manifold (my friend) looks like it has about 1/19,333 of the vacuum lines (rough estimate) that my 86 a20 intake does...

That'd be the bomb. I hope my AEM intake piping that's custom fit will still slap on... lol... would suck if I have to re-custom it.

thanks dudes
paul

[joker2]

OK, let me give you the low down on this conversion because the only other person on this board, to my knowledge, besides Mike, Justin and myself are the only one's that have completed this swap..... First off, it's not as easy as you think if you don't have the right tools.... Secondly, you never want to drill into your head, you only drill into the intake manifold..... I'm not an expert on b20s but I do know that if the A20's intake mani. fits then a b16 mani. will fit also and you will end up using the A20's gasket...... Now by doing this conversion you will lose some vacuum lines but not that many, sorry to bust your bubble on that one..... One major thing you will have to do to the intake mani. is cut off the 2 water jacks that the b16 mani. has and then fill that hole with something like JB weld because if you don't, you'll never be able to drill the hole that goes in that spot....... Well, that's all I can think of right now but there is a lot more your going to have to know...... :D

[2old_honda]

Would anyone by interested in a step-by-step how to with about a million pics? I have b16 intake manifold and a spare head. Let me know if it would be worth the effort.

[A20A1]

a million 56k friendly pics. :D

[toastyghost]

wow, a resurrection that wasn't pointless
i'm impressed
and a how to on this would rule!

[Sean]

ahhh with turbo its not even worth bothering with unless your making sick power

[bobafett]

did you notice a power increase? i have a manifold floating around, and i will finish the project if its worthwhile. if i dont need it on my car ambers car can use it :D

[Versanick]

Thanks, joker2.

I know for a fact I'll feel the increased, after I match the b16 intake to my ported head... this 86 a20 intake is a real killer of my power (not to mention I need to clean my throttle body), and even if I had an 88 or 89 a20 intake, I'd probably be in better shape. I figured, why not just go for a much better intake anyway, since i'll be getting a b16a (99-00 civic Si) intake.

If no one's done it before I get to it, I'll take a ton of pictures as we go through the process. I may end up never doing it if this kid decides he's not going to get a turbo for some reason, but that's how we are when we're 20 (nothing is really planned, we just pretend)...

Anyway, even an improvement over the single butterfly setup the a20 intake has will be to my advantage. Like I said, between my cams and ported head, I can NOT get this car to idle without a) a vacuum pump or b)making the valves REAL loose, advancing the exhaust timing all the way, and retarding the intake.

The vacuum pump is REAL expensive. I like the alternatives, but I won't make the same power.

ugh...
thanks dudes

[joker2]

Well I can tell you this and that is the B20 uses a EGR valve like the A20 so what you're going to find out is that the car will loop funny anyway without that valve....... So if it's already doing it now you will probably be used to it once the B16 mani. goes on......:D But seeing that you have other cars and this may not be your daily driver then I wouldn't be to concerned about the looping idle as long as your getting power from the setup......

[Justin86]

Looping idle is bad ass. I love it when I hear a old muscle with a looping idle pull up next to me. You can allmost feel the car running next to you. :)

[Versanick]

Nah actually it's supposed to be my daily driver. I need the car. I have to get to class and work every day, and have been bumming rides for the past 3.5 weeks because I blew the head gasket and messed things up real bad because the timing belt jumped time.

I just spent almost that entire several weeks getting a hold of a head gasket, and now one of the gromets popped out and I don't know if I can still use it or not. The gromet pops back in, the one with the pink seal oval-shaped, and it looks as if it's supposed to just melt once the car runs for the first time, to seal it up. I don't know if it's a good idea or not though. Anyone know?

And I should use the a20 gasket for the b16a intake after I drill the new holes... and I'd drill the holes in the INTAKE and not the head... I am told never to drill into the head like that.

Either way... this sucks. I'm so mad. My car needs to be running now. I'm about to send the head gasket out to get it copied CNC machine-style, just to make sure it doesn't blow again.

ugh.

[joker2]

Which company do you plan on sending the headgasket to??? And yeah, use the A20 intake gasket to mark off your new holes on the B16 mani..... The bottom holes of the A20 gasket line up on the B16 mani. but it's just the top holes that you'll have to drill.....:wave:

[b20a86lude]

hey guys im also in the process of doing my conversion
i got the holes on and everything for my b20 i got it on i just havent covered up the water jackets yet when i do im not gonna put a hole there the machine shop said it would be necessary my question is what gasket do i use and i want to run the b20a5 ecu and the distrubutor how would i make this distrubutor work since i got vaccum advance im littel confused and any one knwo what i do with the extra lines i have

[PhydeauX]

Either t the vacuume lines off an existing port on the manifold or go to home depot and pick up a hose fitting that'll fit the vacuume line you want to attach and a pipe tap. Find a convienet spot on the manifold plenum, preferably where its got plenty of meat, then drill and tap a hole for the fitting. Use an a20a intake gasket or a thin layer of permatex.

andy

[mouchyn]

you guys also might want to check out using a nylon IM gasket. I'm using one on my 3G prelude right now and it lowered air temperatures by 50 degrees F inside the plenum. The thick nylon insulates the heat from the cylinder head so the air inside the IM stays cooler and denser. I don't know how much power it actually adds, but every little bit helps. I figured if you already have the IM off, you might as well put a nice gasket back on.

Some companies make nylong gaskets like i'm talking about, but there's no aftermarket support for the prelude. I had to make my own. I ordered a sheet of that special nylon online. I bought a brand new honda gasket and traced it on to the nylon. Then I just took my air dremel and a utility knife and got to work. After an hour, i had a perfect copy of the stock gasket -- except 1/8" thick and nylon.

just a thought...