View Full Version : bad warming up
ok this should be the last or 2nd to last thread to do with my car problems.. anyway.. here's what happens.
car is cold, start it up, no high idle or anything :thumbdn: and will stall if i dont assist the accelerator. i sit on the accelerator holding revs between 1500 - 2300RPM, the tempature needle goes up, car is warm, but still idles like poop and if the revs drop near 1000rpm and throttle it, it takes for ever to respond. its like it wants to stall (like im flooding it or something) and once it passes 2000rpm its fine :S so anyway, just turned the car off and then about 10 minutes later, start the car and it sounds fine, no weakness when you throttle it or anything like that, but it will idle at 2000rpm when its warm and only if the car has been shut off for a few minutes, this has happened 4 times so far, what would that problem be? just seems weird that it will idle high when warm and idle low when cold. TIA
i tried searching but wouldnt have a clue what im doing
A20A1
09-12-2006, 11:39 AM
Check your fluid levels oil & coolant and maybe the coolant/water mixture percentage...
as for fast idle not coming on, it could be a bad thermovalve or some problem with the choke and fast idle cam linkages and gizmoes in that area.
Also check for vacuum leaks with carb cleaner.
though not all leaks can be found with carb cleaner... some will be internal or will leak into the air cleaner or the black box due to a defective solenoid or thermovalve.
Tailfin
09-12-2006, 06:53 PM
Give a good inspection to the choke. Make sure it returns and opens properly. If the choke plate doesn't open far enough when it warms up (this is done by the bimetallic spring/choke cover), then the fuel mixture will go too rich, causing an unwanted rpm boost. Does it diesel when you turn the ignition off when it's warm? You can test this if you push open the choke plate manually when it's warm, and see if the rpm drops. Also make sure the float/fuel level is properly set.
Other than that, check for any vacuum leaks as well. If, for some bizarre reason, the fast idle unloader is getting more vacuum at idle... I don't know how lol, but you can check that too simply by sticking a vacuum gauge on there, or your finger when it's cold and hot. Could also be the diaphram to the choke opener or fast idle unloader. Good luck :-P.
well im not too sure on the choke as once the air cleaner is off, im a complete ubber idiot, so i prolly needa do a bit of searching on that *sigh*
all fluids are good except for the window washer, i hope that's not causing all the problems :P but i changed oil, water in radiator about a month ago and all seems still good. i dont see why the float level would be bad as it has never been touched. i replaced a couple of broken things and replaced the pcv valve. dunno what else to mention yet so ya thats it for now.
Tailfin
09-12-2006, 09:42 PM
The choke plate is just that metal flap that opens and closes. It's over the barrel of the carburetor closest to the firewall, I think. You can follow the arm attached to it to the linkage. Just trace back and pull on the lever there, and you'll find the one that opens the choke plate. That diaphram is the choke opener. The bimetallic spring is under a cover. There are index marks (just a little bitty line) that show where it's supposed to be lined up. This site is cool enough to have a service manual available...just check out the diagrams if you're confused, and all will be peachy.
If the engine is cold, the choke plate should close completely. That whole linkage where that stuff connects should be blasted with carb cleaner, and then a little WD-40 so it moves freely. If it doesn't close when cold, it will not start easily, because what that does is keep air from getting in, allowing the engine vacuum to suck fuel down in order to start.
Jasonf860
09-13-2006, 04:50 AM
I'm having almost exactly the same problems with my carb! Stupid thing! That's why I am looking at the 2dr. LX-i on ebay right now. It's only about 20 miles from my house and I should be able to get it cheap! To hell with carbs!
A20A1
09-13-2006, 04:59 PM
pictures are in these threads if you need some
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5350
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48568
okie dokey, car is doing the exact oposite now. only thing ive done was add another ground wire. ive heard good stories about adding a new/stronger ground wire, could this be it? well the car when first starts in cold, it jumps up to 2000rpm like it should, which is a good thing, but it gradually climbs higher to 3000rpm when its warm :S any ideas why? also when i slap the accelerator the cat and alt light blinks a couple times, also blinks with the hazard lights too. the idle wont drop when it warms up :( but it doesnt feel weak when ever i rev it, cold or warm :D i asume its a stuck choke or something? other than that stupid choke or whatever problem, and petrol guzzling and it going super weak, the car is good :)
Tailfin
09-20-2006, 11:42 PM
I was having a very similar problem, until I ghetto-rigged the choke and took out the fast idle linkage completely :tongue: . But anyway, 10 to 1, your problem is that the choke isn't opening quite right. I did the vacuum mod with a few changes of my own, so I just put a stronger, less loaded vacuum to the choke and it opened as much as the opener would do for it. Check that the little arm on the choke linkage seats against the carburetor body.
When I had this problem, I could close the choke plate a bit and the idle would control itself. You want to get the choke to open right and set the idle properly. Now, my choke return spring was busted, so mine has a stretched throttle return spring from the "Help!" section connected from the choke arm to a spot on the firewall lol... And there's also a part of that linkage...when you pull the choke opener arm as far as it will go, there's a little spring sticking up in the linkage that catches, and just falls back...on mine anyway. Like if that spring were stronger by a little, it would stay put with the force of the choke opener and open the plate a little further. I jammed a little piece of fuel hose under the spring so it would hold it and do just that. That got the kinks out for me... If you want the "proper" way to fix this, I'm at a loss....probably for the cash necessary too :rolleyes:
As for the idle not dropping, you either have a leaky diaphram in the fast idle unloader, a problem with the thermovalve that goes to it, or a vacuum leak. The number of diagnostic procedures you could do to eliminate all the causes for idle problems is greater than Carter's life-long collection of liver pills...and is thus, beyond me, hence the modifications :-P.
ahh cool thanks again, ill read over and over your post so i can understand it betterer :D and i like to do my things cheap and not pay any money :D
Tailfin
09-21-2006, 02:03 AM
No problem...I understand that what I wrote is very confusing without visual aid... I'll try to articulate it better since I'm here with nothing to do until the auto parts store opens...and probably fail and confuse you further...
Anyhoo... With the air cleaner bit off, pull the long arm on the choke opener until it stops... Look to see what is stopping you from pulling it anymore. You'll see a little arm/tab doodad seated against the body. The choke opener should pull it that far with the vacuum. If not, address that first. Just like the fast idle unloader, this could be a leaky diaphram or a leak in the vacuum system somewhere (eek). If you have all the stock vacuum junk there, this is quite a mess. Only trick I know is spray carb cleaner around vacuum areas...basically just spray it anywhere in this car...and if you hear the engine change (by sucking some of it up through the leak), then you can help find the leak. Or it could be stupid valves or solenoids not operating right in which case you can read through the factory service manual performing all the diagnostic procedures for each, purchasing equipment to perform said tests, and tearing your hair out, or contemplate removing a few things.... I recommend that only if you're comfortable with it and you're not in California... I'm not sure of emissions laws here and there... Here in NY, it's "grandfathered" in...and as far as I know, they can't fail you for emissions on vehicles before 1996, when cars had to all convert over to OBD II.
I'm not sure how best to test the choke opener diaphram, but I know you should hear a sshh sound at least somewhat if you disconnect the hoses (so you can hear there) and manually push it back.
Moving on here... Once that opens and seats like it should, I would think the car ought to have nothing more to complain about...and maybe that will do it for you. If not, hold the choke opener lever seated once again, and at the end closest to the carburetor, play with the linkage it's attached to. You'll see those silly little cams there and two springs that stick up. You can also manually move the choke plate while doing this to see what moves if you're confused. You'll see that one of those springs sticking up...I believe the one on the right if facing under the hood...comes in contact with the part that opens the choke plate as the choke opener lever is pulled on. Like I said, on mine, when you pulled the choke opener thingy, the choke plate would open, and when it came in contact with that little spring doodad, it pulled the spring back, so once it hit that spring, the spring did not hold and the choke plate stopped opening before the opener was seated. Now...damned if I know if it's supposed to or not, but it seems like not, so I jammed the piece of hose...whatever you want here...under the spring so it couldn't recede. Then the choke plate continued to open for the full length of travel for the choke opener. It seems like there must be some reason for that spring not to hold it open like that...otherwise it would just be solid...but...screw 'em :Owned:
russiankid
09-25-2006, 05:56 PM
has anyone thought of a vacuum leak, im not sure which vacuum hose this is, but behind the ari box there are some vacuum hose's which can be cracked or somthing or you may have forgotten to hook them back up, i know for sure theres one that connects to the cototm of the air cleaner. My brother forgot to hook that one up after the carb replacement and the idle was at 2k.....which made su think WTF!?!?
no vacuum leaks, i inspected pretty much every hose. the only problem right now is the idle wont go below 2k, and wen we tramp it, it revs high really good, but it takes for ever to come back down, like 4 seconds to come down to 2k from 6.5k, thats the only problem now.
PS: sorry for posting my problems in 2 threads
russiankid
09-25-2006, 06:24 PM
no vacuum leaks, i inspected pretty much every hose. the only problem right now is the idle wont go below 2k, and wen we tramp it, it revs high really good, but it takes for ever to come back down, like 4 seconds to come down to 2k from 6.5k, thats the only problem now.
PS: sorry for posting my problems in 2 threadsis your breather filter new or clean? could possibly be your throttle cable is getting stuck somewhere? or the cruise control actuator could be binding it up?( not sure if you have cruise control)
Tailfin
09-25-2006, 06:30 PM
Make sure the throttle body blades and the linkage to it, as well as the choke linkage are not binding. Did you check for vacuum leaks with the carb cleaner like I suggested? Do the same on the intake manifold gasket, and around the carb gaskets as well.
Honestly, it still sounds like choke to me. I can't think of anything else that would make the rpm go down "gradually" except if the choke plate were returning to a position and sticking a little...but I could easily be wrong about that... Basically, it's likely the airflow is being disrupted if it's acting like that. Move the throttle arm and the choke linkage with your hand and make sure they both move nice and smooth and don't catch on anything. If not, blast with carb cleaner then WD-40.
Oh, also make sure the secondary diaphram is not chafing with the primary.
russiankid
09-25-2006, 06:38 PM
slow heater choke?
russiankid
09-25-2006, 06:43 PM
heres an idea, dont you still have your other old accord? if so just do a carb swap?
that carb is long gone.
with a lil more adjusting, we managed to get the cars revs to drop..... but it drops to zero, now it doesnt want to idle at all :slap:
Tailfin
09-25-2006, 08:02 PM
Did you make sure the throttle stop screw or idle adjustment screw aren't set too low?
ya the throttle stop screw is set at a good point, but u really gotta tramp it so it dont stall
ohhhhhhhhhhh k, the car is now powerfull, it idles steady, its just that it idles at about 2,700rpm but sometimes idles at 1,500rpm, doesnt bounce anymore. well othre than that problem, it has the worst pre-ignition EVER, the valve timing is set perfect, so is the ign timing, but when its dieseling, and put it in gear with the brakes on to stop it, well it stops, but then the entire engine spins backwards for about 2 seconds and about 9revs, other than dieseling and high idle, its all good, its pretty powerfull too compared to before
Tailfin
09-25-2006, 10:39 PM
The high idle is probably what's causing the dieseling. It's not supposed to be on fast idle when it's warm. The reason it sometimes idles at 1500 instead is probably the fast idle unloader trying to pull the fast idle cam out of the way of the throttle arm. The fast idle cam is a "circular" piece with "steps" on it. As the engine warms up, vacuum is supposed to be diverted from thermovalve A to the fast idle unloader, in order to pull the fast idle cam back, letting the throttle arm rest on a lower "step." If it isn't, it's because of a vacuum leak, bad thermovalve, or bad diaphram in the fast idle unloader. This thing wouldn't cooperate with me even with direct vacuum, so I just took the whole fast idle system out...but if you want it fixed properly, that's the route you'll have to investigate. Anyhoo, if the engine is warm and the throttle blades are held open some, it will let air in, and that hot air is all it needs to diesel like that.
It's probably going to seem a little more powerful with the idle that high when it is meant to be lower. If you're happy with it, that's fine, but I'd keep an eye on that transmission.
A20A1
09-25-2006, 11:51 PM
Did you try running with the lid off, the hot air diaphragm will also act like a choke when it's blocking the cold air and taking hot air from the heat shield.
If it's stuck then that can cause some problems.
,,,,
as for high idle
I would go back and set your idle speed when the car is fully warm. I would perfer to have cold idle and starting problems then high idle and dieseling... up to you though.
If for some reason idle is still high even when you back out all the screws you'll know it's the fast idle for sure... if so then "it's hammer time" You can also look at the cam and see where it is engauged... then pull the thottle by hand every now and then to see if it kicks down.
Otherwise I'd say you have a bad idle adjustment... one or more of your screws are set too high to make up for a cold idle problem that right now could be masked by idle set high. That could be why when cold idle is done, you have too high and idle when warm.
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AccordB20A
09-26-2006, 01:17 AM
man u have the exact same problem as this civic me and my mate were working on. its an integra GS carbed zc engine. same card as the accord but i ripped that god forsaken (excuse me) black box off and ran ity over a few times. it runs 2 rich but oh well ill inject it.. Dumb carbs.... nice to hear ur cars got power tho man
Tailfin
09-26-2006, 03:59 PM
Speaking of that rich bit...is there any way to offset it? I'm not sure I entirely understand the principle of the float and how the level directly affects mixture (I would hope the jets were always submerged anyway lol)...but is it possible to just lean the mixture that way?...or I know there's the air/fuel mixture screw...but umm...on mine, it doesn't look like a screw...just a fixed piece with no flat, phillips, torx or any sort of medium for me to be allowed to turn it...sheesh.
Anyway, thread-jacking aside... There must be a reason why the car won't idle properly. I don't understand why the fast idle was ever there. I have the idle set to around 1000 or maybe just a smigin more and it runs pretty steadily whehter it's just started or warmed up. The only reason I don't set it a little lower is it occassionally wants to stall after it's warmed up (go figure) when you come to a stop with it in gear. Again, I also took that ludicrous black box out and gave it a good field goal worthy punt...and I haven't tested this in the sub-zero depth of winter, but still...
Might be slight wear on a lot of parts combined because of age or poor maintenance...like slightly worn ignition parts, carbon buildup in the engine, carb or throttle blades, the already mentioned vacuum leak(s), gasket leaks, fuel filters, valve clearance, timing off a bit, clogged exhaust, yada yada yada...(I know you've probably done some of this...just listed everything that came to mind). Good luck.
Speaking of that rich bit...is there any way to offset it? I'm not sure I entirely understand the principle of the float and how the level directly affects mixture (I would hope the jets were always submerged anyway lol)...but is it possible to just lean the mixture that way?...or I know there's the air/fuel mixture screw...but umm...on mine, it doesn't look like a screw...just a fixed piece with no flat, phillips, torx or any sort of medium for me to be allowed to turn it...sheesh.
would that be the a/f screw thats painted yellow on the top hat by the fuel line?
i also noticed just before a leak into the intake manifold, i replaced 2 hoses that go into the intake, seams to run a little bit better. im not too sure on how it is now but cold idles are about 1800 - 2200 rpm :) gonna hope it drops when its warm. my dad is saying something about a fast idle cam, any ideas were it is? and how to disconnect it? i would prefer a pic description but if not, ya have to use a strong description to make me understand lol.
oh yeah, all the things ive done so far:
replaced head gasket
cleaned pistons and valves/head
replaced plugs
replaced wires
replaced coil
replaced dizzy (with good cap)
replaced oil
replaced oil filter
replaced boh fuel filters
replaced a few hoses
replaced some gasket
inspected other hoses and gaskets
perfected valve timing along with ignition timing with timing light
prolly some other stuff i cant remember right now too
and the small list of problems i have right now:
dieseling
high idle
random backfires from the carb
Tailfin
09-26-2006, 04:29 PM
No, that screw is the float adjustment. That would be good to check too though. With the engine running, make sure the fuel level is in the middle of the float inspection window. You'll see it just below where that screw is on the driver's side. If it's not in the middle, you need to adjust that screw... I believe turning it clockwise will lean the mixture (drop the fuel level) and vice versa. If you adjust it, do not turn it more than 1/8 of a turn every 15 seconds (as per the service manual there).
The air/fuel mixture screw is in a recessed hole on the backside of the carb...I wouldn't actually worry about that, I was just posting a tangent, if you will. From what I've read on the how-to's on this site, that is factory set, and there's no need to mess with it...so it shouldn't be a "problem."
The fast idle cam and unloader, etc... is what I mentioned above. I would take a pic for you, but that flood up here ate my digital camera... As I mentioned, the throttle arm rests against the fast idle cam. Take the air cover off and look from the passenger side of the carb. You will see the accelerator cable coming to that area...attached to the throttle arm, which it pulls as you press the accelerator. You can move that throttle arm manually to see how the linkage works there. Look closely, and you'll see a little object that the throttle arm rests against when it's let go. That's the fast idle cam... Just a little circular piece with steps on it, which are the increments of the fast idle as the car warms up. As it does, more vacuum is designed to be directed to the fast idle unloader, which will pull that cam up so the arm can rest against the stop or idle screw...I say "designed" because it has become apparent to me that that's about as far as it goes with these things. The fast idle unloader is the thing with two vacuum hoses going to it (not the choke opener), and is mounted on the back side of the carb. On mine, it's black, unlike other components attached to the carb. The lever/diaphram that comes out of that unloader is attached to a linkage, in turn which interacts with the choke, as well as pulling that cam out of the way (you won't really see this much clearly without taking the choke opener and that linkage off the carb, but that's ok :-P). Because it interacts with the choke (there is a little rod with cotter pins holding that linkage to the choke linkage), if the fast idle cam is "held" out of the way permanently (this is if you're trying to direct vacuum constantly to it, bypassing the thermovalve, or just physically tying it back somehow), then the choke plate will not close all the way (which in a way makes sense, since it shouldn't need to if the engine were warm). This is where I took that connecting rod between the linkages out and removed the whole fast idle system lol... You may not choose to do that, but there are your options, and that's how it works.
2oodoor
09-26-2006, 04:51 PM
weather change ?
I hate these carbs, the fast idle unloader is separate from choke unloader. wtf. if you have checked all like you said here already, what I did on mine was crank it without choke, eventually was going to put HELP brand generic manual choke kit just to pull the blade and hold the idle up with my foot.
I have the kit still if you want it, it would be better just to get one there in NZ. I found a weber before i ever got a chance to put the cable on. The kit here was like sevan bucks at auto zone, you could use one from a junker, if you have junk yards you may even find a weber on something , they used them on a lot of euro cars factory, all you would have to buy is adapter for honda,l and make linkage.just for basics. If your carb runs good otherwise I would just take off all that choke hardware and make a manual cable and foot your fast idle. Probably too cold to crankit without closing the blade at all...really ghetto would be using lawn mower throttle or golf cart choke cable with housinng mount it somewhere maybe on the console or just under dash. :rockon:
Tailfin
09-26-2006, 05:35 PM
Ack, and now that I think of it, did you investigate the carburetor itself? I don't suggest rebuilding every part, but you can take just the screws out and remove the top hat/air horn part of it, and get an idea of what the gaskets are like just from that. When I rebuilt mine, that was the only gasket that looked crappy. Other than that, check out the booster venturi...which are the smaller tubes within the barrels of the carburetor...make sure they do not wiggle. If they do, you need to take the screw out of the side that holds it in place, replace the o-ring, and screw it back in snugly. I'm thinking this is possible to do with the carb still on the manifold, but a pain in the arse... If they're secure though, don't worry too much about it.
yeah them 2 thingies are in nice and tight
yay progress is comming along, we got it to idle at around 750 - 900 which is nice and healthy, it no longer has a rediculous high idle, and had it running very smoothly, like no putt putt outta the exhaust and bearly any pressure, and the engine wasnt shaking so much....... but the smoothness came back again, we just adjusting whatever we can to get it running smooth. the pre-ignition wasnt so bad either, but its still bad. soi all that remains other than the very fine tuning of the carb is deisiling, and its all good :)
i have no idea what i would have done without you guys :D thanks alot :)
A20A1
09-26-2006, 07:21 PM
The higher the float level, the more the gas will flow without the need for pressure drop inside the venturies. In fact if you have the float level above the venturi exit fuel will constantly spill out the venturies, just like a cup that was overfilled. Imagine the float bowl as part of the cup and the exit in the venturi as the rim of the cup... too high a float level and it overflows.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/floatmeboat.gif
oo i checked the float level, its just a bit rich thats all, still between the marks though. we got it running smooth again, idling nice and low, 750 - 1000 is what it idles at. only small problem left now is minor, we'll fix that tomorrow :) and is it normal for $6 petrol to last about 2 - 3 hours running at avg of 1500 - 200rpm? and it takes a little while to respon under 2krpm but thats ok, and a little bit of stalling which is easy. other than that it runs fiiiiiine
Tailfin
09-27-2006, 12:08 AM
The higher the float level, the more the gas will flow without the need for pressure drop inside the venturies. In fact if you have the float level above the venturi exit fuel will constantly spill out the venturies, just like a cup that was overfilled. Imagine the float bowl as part of the cup and the exit in the venturi as the rim of the cup... too high a float level and it overflows.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/floatmeboat.gif
Cool...makes sense... Now my only other question goes back to that how-to in the carb vacuum removal...you mention plugging the vents...how come? I guess I can see that simply making it a bit rich, but I'd think you would still want the pressure to equalize somehow...
Overdosed, good to hear. Don't go futzing too much if it's working now lol...but if it's still dieseling badly, then air is getting in there somehow, just keep that in mind. First thing I'd check is the choke return spring. Push the choke plate down, and it should return to its previous position. Like I said, mine was broken, so now I've got a ghetto throttle return spring to the firewall :D (attached to the little arm there that moves with the choke plate).
Anyhoo, if you've been doing this with the air cleaner off, you might see an improvement with it back on as well. If you did anything to the vacuum, make sure you plug the holes going into the air filter housing...or if you didn't, just double check that all hoses are connected to that and other parts. I use paint markers of various colors to mark hoses before I take them off...well...I did anyhoo.
oh thats when we got it running smooth, when i blocked 2 hoses going to the air cleaner, but it must have been something else adjusted cause before it used to be very putty with the hoses on. i think a basic thing to do now is adjust the throttle stop screw. it was dieseling when idle was higher than 1750rpm, but with it idling around 1000 it doesnt seem to diesel much, maybe a bit of it but barely any. i think tomorrow we will get it running perfect :)
oo its idling at 250rpm when cold :thumbdn: but at least its capable of idling that low
hey i noticed there is NO vacuum on #18 cold - hot, is that right? thats what basicly controls the fast idle unloader and choke puller thingymijig isnt it? and if theres no vacuum, i would have to replace thermovalve-A (that yellow thing 2 hoses comming outta it and its bolted into the intake manifold) and if i do have to replace it, how do i get it iout without breaking it? i broke the spare one :( too fragile
ok yet again, sorry for flooding this thread with all my shit.. but i came up with a hori idea that could make it warm up alot better..
but first a question, were does the manual choke pulling thingy in the dash go?
and seeing i dont have one..
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/chokeidea.jpg
i could just disconnect the cable on that in its position right? and put a choke sticker on it lol and run a cable from there through a hole already in the firewall and to the throttle linkage and move that lil lever so it stays? cause i just cant get it to idle at all when cold :( and holding the accelerator down a tiny bit seems to keep it good... just a half assed idea though
Tailfin
10-08-2006, 07:34 AM
I forget what else goes on 18, if anything...but if the car is hot, then there should be vacuum to the fast idle unloader definitely... There are 3 thermovalves, I think. A is the one closest to the driver side, B is the one next to it, and C I think is the one near the thermostat.
I had no trouble getting A out to test it...just a wrench on the hex part of it. Stuff like that should have anti-seize lubricant upon installation. All I can think of otherwise is penetrating lubricant.
As for the manual choke, your guess is as good as mine there I've never done that lol...but one thing... If you have to hold the accelerator a little bit to keep it up when it's warming up, that sounds like the fast idle is disengaged. If the car stalls when the throttle is set to have it around 2500 rpm you have a SERIOUS problem. If you're planning on fixing the fast idle (and good luck with that :inout: lol), then if you're successful, the car should warm up without the assistance of fine-tuning....unless you just want it to run as best as possible or some silly thing like that. ;)
i hope by rivers side you mean LHD, as for the assistance with warming it up, i cant find no other way at all to fast idle when its cold, only holding the accelerator will stop it from stalling :-/
once the car is warm its really good (idles at 1400rpm), i do wish the idle was under 1000 but beggers cant be choosers, and when its warm there is no putt at all
A20A1
10-08-2006, 04:37 PM
I forget what else goes on 18, if anything...but if the car is hot, then there should be vacuum to the fast idle unloader definitely... There are 3 thermovalves, I think. A is the one closest to the driver side, B is the one next to it, and C I think is the one near the thermostat.
I had no trouble getting A out to test it...just a wrench on the hex part of it. Stuff like that should have anti-seize lubricant upon installation. All I can think of otherwise is penetrating lubricant.
As for the manual choke, your guess is as good as mine there I've never done that lol...but one thing... If you have to hold the accelerator a little bit to keep it up when it's warming up, that sounds like the fast idle is disengaged. If the car stalls when the throttle is set to have it around 2500 rpm you have a SERIOUS problem. If you're planning on fixing the fast idle (and good luck with that :inout: lol), then if you're successful, the car should warm up without the assistance of fine-tuning....unless you just want it to run as best as possible or some silly thing like that. ;)
I'm pretty sure the thermovalves are different and in different locations for other countries.
whats this? i saw no one answered in my other thread :(
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/thingy.jpg
sometimes very randomly if i put vacuum on it, the car either stalls OR run completly fine, so smooth i couldnt bieleve it, no noisy out the back what so ever, but once turned off it goes back to normal.. ideas? oh it also never had a hose on it when i bought the car, and no marks of 1 thats been on there
and this is the hose i blocked (i think its #8) and made the car run smoother and less putt and black smoke out the exhaust
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/hose.jpg
A20A1
10-08-2006, 04:42 PM
Something to bring in fresh filtered air from the air cleaner... a controlled vacuum leak to lean the air/fuel mixture.
russiankid
10-10-2006, 06:43 PM
hm...putt putt black smoke happend on my brothers car, it happend to be the slow heater choke not working correctly. It would take like 2 mins to clear it up..then it would warm up fine, but would idle around 1300rpm when it was doing that.
hotdoghogie
10-10-2006, 07:10 PM
i dunno if its injected or carrbed but this is for injected...
2000 rpms is way too high for idle... that regular driving rpms for me... i try and keep it under 2000 rpms while cruisin... try checkin the eacv (electronic air control valve) or the fast idle valve that all i can think of... i live with a 25yr experienced honda tech at a dealer... so u can trust what i tell u 100%
russiankid
10-10-2006, 07:12 PM
i dunno if its injected or carrbed but this is for injected...
2000 rpms is way too high for idle... that regular driving rpms for me... i try and keep it under 2000 rpms while cruisin... try checkin the eacv (electronic air control valve) or the fast idle valve that all i can think of... i live with a 25yr experienced honda tech at a dealer... so u can trust what i tell u 100%
Well this is in carburetor thread, but he has a carb.
hotdoghogie
10-10-2006, 07:12 PM
nvm i seen those pics its carbed... i dunno man... bad carb.... i had this prob on my atv with the floaters sticking... and another carb my floaters misteriously cracked and filled up with gas so the did there wierd thing... get new carbs at a junk yard thats what i would do
russiankid
10-10-2006, 07:14 PM
Also overdoes why do you have 2 vacuum lines missing near the engine mount in the pic? And the connector unplugged?
russiankid
10-10-2006, 07:16 PM
nvm i seen those pics its carbed... i dunno man... bad carb.... i had this prob on my atv with the floaters sticking... and another carb my floaters misteriously cracked and filled up with gas so the did there wierd thing... get new carbs at a junk yard thats what i would doWell not always the solution, because my bro pulled a carb off a DX at a junkyard and he rebuilt it, but something was wrong with it. We concluded this because when it was idling and you try to rev it up, it would kind of bog then rev up, more like a slow throttle response.
Also overdoes why do you have 2 vacuum lines missing near the engine mount in the pic? And the connector unplugged?
when i done the head gasket, i broke the little piece that goes into the water line and has 2 hoses comming off it, i replace it with plugs but i took them off and lost 1 and blocked a different hose which caused alotta putt putt. i think i figured that its a choke vacuum diaphram or w/e its called, cause when theres vacuum on it, it makes a funny noise, im trynna replace it but cant get the damn screws out :@ i removed the valve cover and air box to get at them for better access but still hard (mind u i am rather weak) but im really hoping thats causing all my problems.
pulled it apart, and found a big rip in it
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/thingy-1.jpg
excuse the big pic, but i replaced it, the car is alot better now, just the only problem now is when its warm, it idles at 1000rpm (that not the problem) but if ya turn it off and turn it on straight away, it acts as if its cold again and takes about 2 minutes to idle again, and cold starts are pure shit, but it idles at 100rpm when warm if not turned off which is a good thing, and can make a good squeel of the tyres at the lights :)
hotdoghogie
10-11-2006, 08:27 PM
lol... i like how u use an slr to take these pics
lol... i like how u use an slr to take these pics
slr??????
well now i have a completly unrelated problem here, worst thing yet, the carb backfired as usual, the accelerater locked and its tight, cant get it loose :(
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/helpme.jpg
choke flap is also stuck tight, help? pritty pleeeeeeease. we were just making prograss too :'(
AccordB20A
10-12-2006, 02:05 AM
go get a 2g honda oprelude XX and steal the twin carb package off an ES engine. WAY BETTER i tell ya. but im not a fan of carbed a18a. every signle carbed a18a engine ive seen and have never worked it allways did what urs does so i wood just give. thats how my 1.8Si came about. as for your problem it will most likely be something mechanical that jammed like a flap or something. i remember pissing round all night with a carb on a a18a trying to get it go just so i could go out and do laps... me and carbs dont go well together. i must admit YOU my friend have a fuckload more patience than me. my hammer wood have mutated your carb ages ago if it was me :D
oo my other carb has already met the hammer... sad really, im close to getting it done though, i think it may be the fast idle adjusting screw screwed out a bit 2 much
yay made huge progress today (kinda) well as u can see in the above picture, the throttle linkage was stuck fuck all open and couldnt move it, i removed all that shit (choke, fast idle unloader etc...)
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d106/89accord/100_1881Medium.jpg
and i decided since it was off, i might as well put on the other one since it was in good condition, and now, when cold, revs up to 2krpm, when warmed up, it drops down below 1krpm :D
nooooooooooooooooow the only problem is...... how do i get it to run smoothly?? im gonna check for vacuum leaks again since i hammered a heap of hoses outta the way to access the screws.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,. any other suggestions? im just glad i have all the time in the world and dont need money to fix this :)
i can see the light at the end of the tunnel :D
well i think this is the best im gonna get it, very bouncy idle, but doesnt stall, and when its warm if you slap the accelerator then it locks onto fast idle untill ya rev it more, but thats ok, warm idle bounces between 500 - 1100 im happy with that :)
:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: ok so theres no power going to that solenoid going to the back of the carb with the green/red wire.. i red on some thread that i should check that, i heard it click when i shorted it right 2 the battery, it clicked, so i turn the key, no click, so neways, i start it and runs like shit as normal, i put that little wire on the battery and it all smooths out to my surprise... so now i gott put all my settings back lol.... but it should be alright to short that wire to the black/yellow one on the coil right? coz if i had it on the battery all the time, the car keeps running after i turn it off lol
erghm now i have no high idle while its cold and keeps stalling till it warms up :( :help: i know its not the fast idle unloader, but thats all i know lol. and its running rough again :wtf: i shorted the slow mixture cut off valve solenoid to the battery with a better wire and it didnt help, but if it can just idle high when cold ill be happy.... its best to sell it while it runs like a normal 20 yr old car :)
Tailfin
11-10-2006, 05:57 AM
Do you mean you know the fast idle unloader itself is ok, or the vacuum lines to it are as well? Just be sure there isn't vacuum at the hoses going to the unloader. If there is, that problem has to be traced (thermovalve or something). Other than that, it would have to be something in the linkage there. The fast idle is, in the end, just a little cam that physically gets in the way of the throttle arm (in steps) in order to hold it open some. So either there's vacuum on the unloader, or the linkage where the unloader arm, choke arm and all that junk come together is binding or messed up somehow. Spray the linkage with carb cleaner, then some WD-40. If that doesn't help, inspect it for parts being stuck or any of those little springs broken, etc...
oo are you talking about that little screw that you have to pretty much open the throttle almost fully open just so you could fit a screw driver and turn it?
russiankid
11-10-2006, 03:44 PM
After seeing that you still have issues, when you have the time and money go to a junkyard and pull a carb, and just install it. Then with this one you can slowly rebuild it and resolve the problem so later on you have a carb ready to go.
well i got it to idle high when cold and low when warm, without stalling :D, dunno what the problem was, but runs better :) i might end up bumping this thread if i still have problems in the future
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