'84 LX - tranny swaps?

[rustedout]

Hooray for my first post.

I've got two 2.5g accords, my first an '85 LX (rusting through about twelve cans of rust converter, primer, and rustoleum) which I want to keep running, and the second, a parts car, an '84 LX sans starter.

I'd left the '85 sitting for a long time after the battery went to hell on me (winter here is rough) and bought the '84 after it sat an equally long time (nearly a year). The '84's tranny is shot - been open to the weather without the starter, and needed a throwout bearing anyway before I ground the gears out to the field where it's sitting now.

My actual question: Can I take the tranny from the '86 prelude ET2 I found in the scrapyard and bolt it right onto my amazing ES2's? Aside from the missing starter, which I can swap over, my parts car is in overall better shape than my trusty old '85. If it can't take the prelude tranny, I'll have to resort to one of the other three or four 2.5g tranny's in the yard.. just thought it'd be nice to have the option.

And seriously, if anybody needs parts for a 2.5g, there's more at the junkyard than I can use. I only see one or two other MOVING 2.5g's around town.

So much for introductions. I've searched, but never found an exact answer to this question. I'm pretty sure it'll be okay.. mostly worried about which arm and leg the guys at the yard will want in exchange.

[rustedout]

so yeah, I'm still searching, still finding more things that point to me being a non-searching douche.

I do like specifics, though. '86 lude tranny onto an '84 lx, directly? I'd love to just unbolt, unbolt, bolt up, and drive.

Some days I'd kill to be out of the integra and back in the accord. And then I think about how the accord tries to spontaneously combust every so often, and I keep tinkering with it.

[2ndGenGuy]

From what I understand the transmission will bolt right on. Any of the A-Series trannys will bolt on too. I think you just have to use the clutch that was with that transmission. The only problem is the ever-present axles. I think if you use an earlier Prelude tranny you can use the 2.5g axles. If you get a little later in the years, I think you gotta use SEi axles and wheel bearings, just as though you did the A20 transmission. Hope this helps...

It's a good idea to go to the Prelude tranny. I think it will make the car more fun to drive as it's got a better final drive ratio than the Accord. The Accord is just so tall in it's gearing. It will top out at 165mph in 5th gear, if you had the power to push it that far. The Prelude transmission should give the car better acceleration, and make it feel torquier, plus will shorten up the gears a little bit...

Welcome to the site as well! Hope to see some pics, and let us know how everythign goes!

[PhydeauX]

The 86 lude tranny doesn't have the big final like the 85 trans does. The Si came out in 86 and they tamed the carb version down. I also believe that 86 was when they switched to the larger axle splines, but there is alot of contradicting info on this. Basically it comes down to the 86 prelude tranny not being that much better then an 85 accord tranny so you might as well stick with what you know will work.

If thinks like swapping the hubs don't bother you then go for a 2g prelude or 3g accord efi tranny. They're both a better choice then the the 86 carbed lude tranny.

andy

[offthahook]

Man... the best thing I can offer is to try it. I know there is debate over what swaps as "plug and play" and what needs "some mods" to work. It's just that no one has done a whole lot of that swapping and posted about it. Plus, you want it ot function like it should. I'm sure you could "make" it fit, but it might not be full on "right". Hondas have VERY little wiggle room in their transmissions. Tolerances are pretty tight.

I thought I recalled something about the carb'd and FI transmissions being slightly different in the mid 80's Accords/Preludes. Other people will know more about what brackets you might need, axles, etc.

At the yard near you... Do you have access to:

Power antenna motor, mast, switch. Would be on the 84-5 sedan LX or SE-i trims only.

84-5 3 door LX. Just hit me up if they even have any of these. I have a parts car for my 84 3 door, but it's missing the cargo shelf in the rear. I'm still on the hunt for a set of rear mudguards from an 84-5 hatchback.

[rustedout]

Definitely appreciating the responses. This is going to be my first 'major surgery' on any vehicle - hopefully I learn something while I'm in there.

As for parts - we do have an '85 hatch, a couple LX's (both mine are LX trim) and if I could figure out how to get the antenna, motor, and switch off my '85 without breaking them, I've been planning on seeing how it looks shaved anyway. Next Saturday I'll probably be out sizing up parts, rain or shine, so I'll let you know on the mudguards.

I'm straying even further off topic.. until I found three more 2.5's in the yard, I had no idea the center armrest/console was so damn rare. crazy.

So - general consensus is, pull off what I can tell obviously mates up for a transmission.. and hope for the best. I love saturdays at the yard, just wish I knew more about what I was doing/could potentially do. I'll have to see if we have any other 'ludes around, too.. I know there's a 4ws out there, and I'm hoping the bolt pattern on those alloys is the same as our accords' too. I'm pretty sure they are.

[PhydeauX]

The only question about fitment you'll have is the axles, everything else bolts right up. There seems to be some point that honda changed the axle size on the carb prelude and I don't know percicely when it was or if it happened. I have a feeling it was 86 but I'm not sure. I know the 85 prelude trans is a definite fit, personally verified I ran one in mine for a year. The original information I had was that all carbed preludes had the smaller splines. I beleve I got that info from a 2g prelude site dealing with efi swaps where they stated that all carbed 2g preludes needed to swap hubs and axles when going to an efi trans. I took this as true until but some contradictory infor came up on this site a while ago. As of right now we don't really definitely know much about it. I still have a feeling that all carb lude transmissions have the smaller splines, but I'm not stating that as a fact because I don't know for sure. If you've got alot of time at the yard then you could pop one of those 2.5g axles out and try to put it in the lude trans, that'll let you know for sure.

As far as finding trannies from other cars at the junkyard that may fit, don't bother. The only transmissions that bolt up come out of 2.5 and 3g accords and 2g preludes. (A 4ws lude is a 3g and the trans isn't even close.) No other honda uses the same bell housing. There are other transmissions that use swapable internals, like the 1g integra, but you still have to use the accord/lude bell housing.

andy

[offthahook]

As for parts - we do have an '85 hatch, a couple LX's (both mine are LX trim) and if I could figure out how to get the antenna, motor, and switch off my '85 without breaking them, I've been planning on seeing how it looks shaved anyway. Next Saturday I'll probably be out sizing up parts, rain or shine, so I'll let you know on the mudguards.

Sounds cool. 'Preciate it.

[rustedout]

it's been raining two days now, but i'm going to the yard tomorrow anyway. i doubt i'll actually pull any sort of tranny in the cold here.. this is starting to look like a project for next spring already. damn. last week it was toasty, and two nights ago we had frost.
or maybe I'll get ambitious once I get started..
or slack and see if they've already pulled a tranny i can buy.. less fun, more money, though.

[rustedout]

no luck on the hatch mudguards or rear deck.. there's an 83 rear shelf out there, but it's maroon.. I keep finding things that are close, but not quite what I need. and I swear, there aren't any seats in good condition anywhere in that yard. With the rain, I didn't feel like getting underneath anything with a wrench, but I did pull off a set of old CRX alloys that should match up nicely. They're not pretty, but they're unique as shit. eh, somebody's probably got a set on a 3g already. I'll look for a picture.

Didn't get the antenna/motor/switch pulled yet, but soon.. I get the feeling my '85 isn't going to last another winter, but I'm hopeful. The tranny will probably end up going on the '84, and I'm looking for a weber kit still. I know a bunch just went by on ebay.. and I didn't buy any of them. :(

[offthahook]

That's kinda weird that an 83 LX HB is there. I think the cargos helf is the same for the 84 as well. If you hit that yard again, maybe get a closer look. Color doesn't matter with my leet paint skills and a preval spary can! Trust me, it's always a close call on this old stuff. I wonder if there's a person out there saying "Damnit, I keep finding 84 and 85 Accords when I need 82 Accord stuff." I appreicate you keeping your eyes peeled. One day we'll hit paydirt; we may have already with that 83 cargos thingy. Those are hard to find halfway intact! Thanks.

[rustedout]

i'll probably be back out at the yard scrounging again next weekend, but it's supposed to be like 50 degrees.. i'll take some measurements on the shelf for you. maroon's alright? I was thinking all the LX's are usually gray, like mine.. though mine are two different grays.

I'm still working on my cars without a garage, full tool set, lift.. wondering how I'm going to lower a tranny off one and swap it onto the other without any proper equipment.. but I'm going to wait on that until I get a new starter and carb on the '84 anyway, just to be sure it's running well enough to deserve it. Stripping parts off has been fun.. especially since the power steering, A/C, and interior were screwed in the first place.

Anybody know about how much the es2 tranny weighs, offhand? too much to drag around by myself, without real equipment?

[offthahook]

You will be in for a challenge swapping out trannies by yourself. I'm sure it can be done, but just lining it up at the bellhousing will take a steady, strong hand AND a perfectly placed hoist of some kind. I would guess you would need a couple buddies or maybe rent a lift for a few hours. Be damn sure you use jackstands or 6x6 timbers (or both) to hold the car up. Good luck!! I would guess the tranny weighs at least 100# with the torque converter. Not sure, but it will be difficult under the conditions you mentioned. Pics. would be cool, but I think we'll understand if you can't.

On that rear shelf, don't worry about it if it's cold and nasty out. Maroon will work because I will either paint it or have it recovered in blue. There are really two pieces to it-- one attaches on the hatchback door itself and the other sits right behind the rear seats. Both pieces would be sweet, but the piece that sits behind the rear seat is more important to me. IF you can get it, be careful NOT to break the mounting pegs off. These pegs clip into place on the rear speaker grilles and people tend to break them off. Then, the piece is useless. You have to slide these two things like a switch and the pegs can released. I'm sure that an 83 LX shelf would work in my 84 because both part numbers are 83880-SA5-0XXXX. The 4 X's just mean the color coding. I know 3 door LX's came in maroon, gray, dark blue, gold. This shelf was standard on the LX's, but an accessory on the base/S models in 82-85. Man, it would be tight to get one of those intact! So long as it is usable, I can make it look good. Just let me know what you come up with. Thanks.

[Ichiban]

I wonder if there's a person out there saying "Damnit, I keep finding 84 and 85 Accords when I need 82 Accord stuff."

I AM!! the rear lid wont exchange between 82-83 and 83-84. Neither will much else, for that matter.

[offthahook]

I AM!! the rear lid wont exchange between 82-83 and 83-84. Neither will much else, for that matter.

Lucky you! You know I'm not talking about the hatchback door itself, just the shelf that sits in there, right? I know there are some definite differences in the 2 and 2.5G Accords, but the part numbers matched except for the color codes (last 4 letters/numbers). I know the bodies look different, but I thought underneath it all was the same. Like the skeleton is the same, which would make the cargo area identical. Honda definitely updated in 84, but I was under the impression the doors, hood, fenders, etc. COULD still be swapped. Hmmm, maybe we do need some measurements. Have you tried to put a cargo shelf from an 83 into an 84/5 3 door? In any case, it's hard finding parts for these cars!!

Do you still have that 81 hatchback with the bad motor? I hope so. Man, I hope so!

[PhydeauX]

You can swap the tranny by yourself [faux bad german accent]unless you are a weak and pathetic little girly man[/faux bad german accent]. Its somewhere in the neighborhood of 100lbs probalby a little less. With the car up on stands you can bench press it up to where it needs to be. Once you get the input shaft in it will support the weight while you bolt it up. I've done it a few times. Remember that the tranny has 3 out of the 4 engine mounts attached to it so you're going to need to support the engine. If you cant lift it up there then you can just balance it on a good jack and raise it into place.

andy

[Ichiban]

Save yourself the hassle and pull the bloody engine. It takes about an hour and a half if you pull the hood and have (rent) an engine crane. While you're at it you can do your timing belt super easy and fix that leaky pan gasket without having a hernia. It's just not worth the dicking around to try and re+re the tranny inside the engine bay. Plus, you can leave the crossmembers alone, and do everything above the car where it won't crush you. And the tranny weighs more like 50 lbs. Pull the engine, man.

[Ichiban]

Yeah i haven't looked at that car for awhile, it should still be at my parents. With the trunk lids, they're a different shape, the later ones have more of a lip. I don't know if you can swap them though, but I can get hatch struts for the later ones everywhere, but can't find any for my 82. (mine are fucked)
Body panels are actually quite dissimilar between the years, with the front fenders (exc 85 usa hatchback), hood, rear quarters and decklid all being different from the early models. The engine bay and x-members are different, but the suspension and interior is largely identical. I believe the doors exchange as well. I do believe the windshields are different as well.

I prefer the look of the 82-83, personally. To bad it's such a bitch to swap an engine into, as the 84-85 has the same engine bay as a 3g

[offthahook]

yeah, it would be easier to pull the engine and transmission as a unit. Of course, it is a million times easier to work on the engine out of the car and on a stand.

I got a set of hatch struts for my 84 and they aren't quite OEM fitment. They rubbed the paint, so we installed them upside down. They still rub when you shut the lid, but not nearly as bad. We tried some goof momemade shims, but the end of the strut still wasn't rounded like the Honda struts were. The doors and mirrors do swap from 82-85, at least they do on the 3 door. Side protectors might look different though. I didn't know there was so much difference in the body designs.

Man, hold onto that 1G! Between 2ndgenguy and myself, we're coming up pretty empty on scoring parts. I'm talking we're scouring and coming up close every time! He just called me to ship some stuff he did find. I need a whole damn car intact, but we can barely find half a car smashed up...

[rustedout]

I think the '85 hatch at the yard had bad struts, unfortunately. I'll take a look at that '83 hatch again while I'm out on Saturday, see what kind of condition it's in overall. It's weird, I'd never seen it there before, and it was sitting behind the rows of cars, off to the side.. little twilight zone going on there.
I've never pulled an engine before.. never done any serious engine work before, really. I'm learning as I go, taking things as they come up. I'd like to replace my seals and belts, though, so good point about taking the engine out. Maybe I need to make some friends with some sort of auto knowledge.
Plus I'm working in a damn field, with softish dirt. My cars keep settling into their own wheel ruts, makes it difficult to push the one around. I'm wondering how using an engine crane would work out there. At the moment, all the pieces I'm stripping off are going into the trunk and backseat for storage. Rather shabby conditions, I guess, but I'm having fun.

[offthahook]

Man, working out in a field sucks. Working in a wet field REALLY sucks. But I've been there (my dad's backyard actually) and learned a lot. Just like you, it was on the fly training, but on a 78 Accord. DO NOT ATTEMPT any kind of jacking up, pulling wheels off, or even an engine hoist. Trust me, they will just sink. Even if you laid out plywood sheets, the soft ground will absorb heavier stuff. Stick to pulling interior/exterior parts-- no under the car type stuff for now. Wait til it is VERY dry before maybe trying to do some of that heavy line type work. Good luck and take pics or else you will forget what goes where in what sequence!

[rustedout]

Bad news on the hatch struts, they're bad on both the 83 and 85 out at the yard.
I pulled the rear shelf out of the 83 and tried to put it in the 85, but it didn't line up right. Kind of close, but not good enough. So that kind of sucks, too.. it's weird if the part numbers are the same. The '85 didn't have the lockdown slidy things, but it did have channels for the pegs. The shelf wasn't in the best shape anyway..

Yeah, working in a field can suck, especially because jacks, wheels, anything with weight on it can and will sink. I've finally managed to pull my complete air conditioning system (I rarely use it and it was broken when I bought the car anyway) and power steering (also broken when I bought the car).. I have to admit, getting the A/C compressor out took a saw and hammer. It had been hanging there useless for years, getting power steering fluid pumped all over it, collecting dirt.. I bought this thing for $100, though.

Anywho. Lots of learning, and I haven't seriously injured myself yet. I'm going to wait until I get the car running - meaning weber kit - to put it on a solid surface and do anything underneath it. Towing the car with the lawn tractor kind of sucks.. but it's funny as hell to watch.

[offthahook]

Thanks for checking. Now I know for sure, but it's weird that the part numbers match, except the color codes. I guess Honda knows what colors need what design! Be careful out there and take it all in. Cars are similar in a lot of ways, so you can transfer a lot of your new knowledge to other stuff! Good luck.

[rustedout]

it could be that the only thing we know for sure is that this specific 2g shelf didn't fit into this specific 2.5g hatch, knowing what we do about honda. I'm pretty sure they don't fit back and forth, but there's loopholes in everything.
I bought a set of stubby wrenches to see if I can get the carb out more easily.. it's being stubborn.. (good excuse for more tools, right?) and I found a weber kit for a semi-decent price (how much are people usually paying?) so maybe I'll get more done this season than I thought I would. I just need to buckle down and buy the kit, but groceries and electricity are soooo tempting sometimes. :violin:

[Ichiban]

To get the nuts off of the carb flange use 1/4" drive with a universal joint and a longish extension. Works like a charm.

[rustedout]

thanks for the tip! I've been on call this weekend, so I'll have to try it out later.. on the plus side, on call means more money, more money means there'll be a weber kit heading my way (screw groceries).
it's cooling down fast here. I'm not sure I can get everything together before it starts snowing, usually mid-october to mid-november. OR I could just invest in gloves and stop being such a girly-man.
Have I mentioned how much I appreciate the help? This site's been great.

[rustedout]

argh.. two days of snow. Watching people trying to drive this morning was funny as hell, though..
I'm going to have to make a list of stuff to do 'once it warms up' again. like every winter. unless we get another warm streak. damn it.

[offthahook]

Ha. I know the "gotta wait til the weather warms up" feeling all too well! Hang in there...