Choosing an engine builder?

[2ndGenGuy]

I've been searching online for a long time, but I haven't really asked anybody yet. Been searching through the forums and everything, and I'm not sure I've found a difinitve answer.

So I want to have my A20 built professionally. I kinda wanted to do it in stages, like shortblock first, then have the head built later for $$$ reasons. I know so much as to set the timing and stick it all back together.

The problem I'm having is that I'm not really sure who to trust to do the bottom end / headwork on my car. I don't know if I should go to the tuner shops and ask them. I'm afraid they'll tell me that they'll do it themselves, and I'll get some guys who have never seen an engine like an A20 building it for me and charging me out the ass. I don't know if I should just look someone up in the phone book, but I'm sure I'll find somebody who does lots of V-8's, and has no experience with older Honda engines.

I've considered Paeco, but I've read so many mixed reviews about them, that I have no idea whether to trust them or not. Has anybody here ever seen a Paeco engine and can say whether they do a good job or not? Some other forums have said that thier engines are crap, and others say they're great...

Most of you guys on here who are building an engine, seem to do it yourself. But I've never built one before, and don't really trust myself to it... Any help would be appreciated, and sorry for the long post... Maybe someone in the Seattle / Portland area can recommend somebody who could build a terriffic engine for me?

[AccordEpicenter]

i would get a good engine builder that is known to do good work. There are tons of machine shops that suck at life, choose wisely.

[ZackieDarko]

There is a local member on here (local as in he lives in Marysville) who knows his stuff, PM me and i'll give you his name and #.

[speedpenguin]

PM Gemini2003 about the guy building his engine for him, he seems really happy with the way the build is going.

[rjudgey]

It's so hard to find reliable people but even if you do get a good engine builder it can be so easily wrecked by someone who doesn't know how to tune it properly with the right fuel mixture and ignition timing.
It's a real minefield out there hence why most of us do it ourselves as one it does save us huge amounts of money that we can then spend on quality parts but two you also know that it's been done properly and if it goes bang you only got yourself to blame and then you do it again and work out where you went wrong so you know for next time.
I've lost count how many engines i've partially re-built and completely rebuilt but everytime i do one i make it my goal to get at least another 5bhp out of it and so far i have which is why my engines crank out 200bhp and while this one is down and out due to two rods departing i know that the limit on stock rods is 6.5k rpm any more than that and they will only last 30k miles or more before they go bye bye maybe with ARP rod bolts they might have lasted but when Eagle do aftermarket rods for $300 it's not worth using secondhand parts. But the new build will have Eagle H Beams maybe titanium ones with flat top forged pistons and then it won't go bang for a very long time and hopefully all i will need to do is slap in some new rings every 50k or so.

[guaynabo89]

Well rebuilding an engine is rebuilding an engine. It doesnt matter if you take it to a normally v8 oriented machine shop since its basicly the same thing. Go look around at each shop and ask questions. Your gut is your best friend when it comes to chosing the correct engine builder. Basicly its just clean, bore and hone, slap in new pistons rings andbearings and thats it. Now if you want extras like shotpeening and the like it will be extra. One thing I ask are you going for a performance rebuild or just stock rebuild? If you are going for a stock rebuild the cyinder head isnt that expensive and you should do it at the same time. Doesnt really make sense to tear apart an engine and only rebubild the bottom of it then have to come back tear it apart to do the cyinder head.

If all else fails look thrugh the fone book. and remember the biggest add doesnt mean they are the best. If you have any friends who race their cars tey will let you know who he best engine bbuilders are unfortunately if you hit them at the wrong season they will be backed up and it will take a month or to for your engine to get done being that the racers are all getting their engines rebuilt at the same time. See if there are any local forums and try checking those out too.

[Gemini2003]

I'll ask Mr.R if he knows anyone good down in Seattle area :-) I'll PM you if I find out anything.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

The problem I'm having is that I'm not really sure who to trust to do the bottom end / headwork on my car. I don't know if I should go to the tuner shops and ask them. I'm afraid they'll tell me that they'll do it themselves, and I'll get some guys who have never seen an engine like an A20 building it for me and charging me out the ass. I don't know if I should just look someone up in the phone book, but I'm sure I'll find somebody who does lots of V-8's, and has no experience with older Honda engines.

Like guaynbo said, it doesn't matter if the engine builder usually builds v8's, as long as they know what they are doing they can build any kind of engine. It is all about good machine work and proper measurements and such. If they know how to build an engine properly then they can build almost any engine the right way.

Best bet is to talk to people who have had engines built in your area and see what kind of success they have had. One of the biggest determining factors too should be how well the mechanic stands behind their work. If a builder isnt willing to back their engines then that really says something about them.

[smufguy]

Any professional engine builder will give you this answer: The motor does not know any brands. The meaning is that its still an air pump doing the basic functions. A builder's experience speaks for itself. Writing a simple email to magazine editors will let you look into non-advertised and yet strong engine builders in your state.

[88Accord-DX]

All I will say is to get some kind of warranty. Check their creditials as a engine rebuilder. Look to see if they have ASE certified technicians. Most part of who rebuilds it, is experience. Anyone can rebuild an engine, but there are some things to make sure it is right. (blueprinting for example)

The machine work plays a good factor is what your outcome will be. It's up to the rebuilder to make sure everything is copisthetic. Engine rebuilding is engine rebuilding, just choose wisely.

[AccordEpicenter]

My machinist normally does HUGE BIG INCH V8 race motors (like 500+CI) but i took him my block and told him what i needed and he did an awesome job, and this is his first honda. He was pretty impressed with the honda castings too. He says its all the same except the heads and big headwork you might wanna find somebody who has experience with hondas, but the bottom end assembly is straightforward. Its always nice to have somebody whos worked with the particular product but i wouldnt rule anybody out if they have not, particularly if they are a good machinist etc.

[mykwikcoupe]

not to get off topic but Im with accorsepicenter. i took a head to a shop and asked him for a street hone which is basically getting rid of the casting burs and smoothing out the rough edges. He looked at it and said it was done and suggested I take a dremel tool to it with a none abrasive bit and just take down the rough stuff. Im pretty impressed with stock castings

[2ndGenGuy]

Wow! Thanks guys for all the great responses! I really appreciate all the input.

I'm going for a performance build on this. I've been reading around, and it sounds like a lot of it has to do with piecing together parts. Basically I just want someone to assemble the bottom end with some forged parts and whatnot for some real horsepower. High compression, and I'm also looking for probably damn hear a race-built head. I've got a recommendation for a guy who builds race heads. Not a race cam though I don't think... But thats for discussion on another thread...

I guess what I'll do from this point on, is just talk to you peeps on here who have been so great as to give me recommendations. After that I'll probaly look for a few local recommendations and just go with who I feel could do the best job.

[bobafett]

Hey man, if you want to go somewhere 'somewhat' local,

Dan Hall's Automotive Machine in Portland did my engine...
1831 N Killingsworth St
Portland, OR 97217
(503) 289-5015

I don't think they have a lot of experience with A20's specifically, but any good shop it doesn't matter, they can still work magic. I am happy with my build. They are not cheap, and they can be slow like all machine shops sometimes, but I would go back there.

If you call them to pick their brain, ask for Julie, and let her know that 'Chris with the A20' sent you.

[Justin86]

From what I have found most experienced builders even the v8 guys can go good work on our motors. Bottom end builds all are the same part, just we have less moving parts. Basic top end work is all similar, working to clean up the ports and valve job. For those shops that can get your motor in and out in a couple weeks isn't saying much. The one that is booked solid for months, prob has a much better rep for engine builds.

[2ndGenGuy]

Hey man, if you want to go somewhere 'somewhat' local,

Dan Hall's Automotive Machine in Portland did my engine...
1831 N Killingsworth St
Portland, OR 97217
(503) 289-5015

I don't think they have a lot of experience with A20's specifically, but any good shop it doesn't matter, they can still work magic. I am happy with my build. They are not cheap, and they can be slow like all machine shops sometimes, but I would go back there.

If you call them to pick their brain, ask for Julie, and let her know that 'Chris with the A20' sent you.

Thats awesome! It's only a few blocks from where I lived for a while. So when you went to them, did you have them do the performance build? What kinds of things did you have to provide? Were they able to get high performance parts for the engine, or did you have to provide them? Well I guess I can call and talk to them.



For those shops that can get your motor in and out in a couple weeks isn't saying much. The one that is booked solid for months, prob has a much better rep for engine builds.

Yeah, I do 100% agree with you on that. I am NOT in a hurry. I would rather wait 6 months to get a really fantastic build, than a month and have my engine blow up down the road due to someone not tightening a bearing to the right spec.

[bobafett]

i provided them the crazy titanium valve train parts, and oil pump, and valves, so they didn't need to track down too much weird stuff for me, but i am sure if you were willing to spend the money on some fancy stuff, they they would be willing to get ahold of the people at SI valves or whatever, and make sure you get the right stuff.

also they have a good relationship with the guys at delta cam, and they were able to find me ARP parts for my bottom end. :)

i dont want to list off all the stuff they did to the engine, but you can read about the crap on my motor at this page: http://a20turbo.com/features/chris.html

they did quite a lot of work to it, i quite like the 5 angle valve job and the balanced bottom end. i REAAAALY need a cam again to wake this engine up though.

[cygnus x-1]

If you're interested you can check out my build project over on PreludePower:

http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238337

I'm just now starting the reassembly. I had a machine shop do the machining and stuff that I can't do. The shop seemed to be knowledgeable about newer Honda's but it didn't sound like they had ever done an A20. The guy was surprised that it was an iron block said that it would be a great block for turbo or nitrous.

Anyway they did really good work despite my being somewhat disorganized (long story). One thing I would suggest is that you educate yourself as much as possible so that you 1) know what you want and 2) have some clue what they are talking about if they ask you a question. It will also help them if you can give them sources for parts, or even better order things you know you will need and bring them in. Save them the research time and let them concentrate on the build work. They will be much happier that way.

C|

[offthahook]

Yeah, what they all said. A good machine shop can do A LOT of stuff well or else they would go out of business QUICKLY. You mess up a few engine builds and it gets expensive fast. The building may be broke looking, but the best shops around here are hella old. Not too many machine shops will have a lot of experience with Hondas. Simply because Hondas run forever and no one (until the last few years) ever rebuilds a Honda block. The domestic V8's are everywhere and people mess with them all the time, so machine shops see more of them. Plus, of course, domestics fail more often and get rebuilt. The guys I've talked to seem to think that it's all iron and aluminum and they can work on the foreign stuff the same. Kinda like the knowledge transfers from years of working with metals. I think you can get a feel just by talking to the mechanics at the machine shops. Around here, they answer the phone and write up the receipt. Unlike the other auto shops where someone answers the phone, another person writes up an invoice, and you never speak with the tech who does the work. I'd say you can talk intelligently with some shops, tell them what you expect, and they will let you know what they're comfortable with.