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snoopyloopy
10-17-2006, 08:39 AM
ok, i have some questions. some of them have been partly answered, but i figured i might as well have a new thread to have as many of them answered in one spot as possible to help future people who want answers. ok, here goes.
what is the difference between the black top and gold top b20a engines besides the valve cover color?
which engine is easier to install into the 3ga and 3gb usdm cars?
how does the tranny bracket attach to the usdm frame?
how are the a20a3 emission systems affected or changed by the b20a?
does the a20 shift linkage work with the b20 tranny?
how are the b20a and the a20 wiring harness together?

and there'll be more...

TWOLOUDNPROUD
10-17-2006, 11:38 PM
Ok the gold top B20a came in the 1985-1987 Accord CA5 And the Black top is from the 1988-1989 Accord Ca5 the 85-87 glod top uses the same intake as the 86-87 USDM A20A1 Accord Lx-i And the Black Top uses the same intake as the 88-89 USDM Accord Lx-i.The intake for you 89 Accord will fit the B20a Glod or Black top Now for the wiring harness you can use the one from your a20a3 if you are going to use the Stock A20A3 Ecu with the B20a you will neeed the Disturbitor and cranck sensor from the 86-87 integra and the plugs from the integra wiring harness and put them on the A20A3 wiring harness But by useing the A20A5 Ecu you will not get the full power of the B20a To get the full power you will need to use the Prelude Si 88-89 Ecu and you will need to add a sheilded two wire for the cylnder postion sensor Carotman how to for this Now for the trany mount it sets the same as thr A20A3 you will need the B20a trany mount the A20A3 will not work.

AccordB20A
10-18-2006, 02:42 AM
i have done a swap from b20a to a20a2 before. the rear engine mount is diffrent. the gear shift linkages bolt up and the engine wiring harnesses plugged straight in. but your engine comes with all mounts axles intake/ex man ecu engine loom and everything else
should bolt straight into your accord

snoopyloopy
10-21-2006, 01:38 PM
yeah, i figured that since i'm getting one, i might as well see what i got myself into.

snoopyloopy
11-04-2006, 06:51 PM
ok, questions round 2. when i get the engine, i figured i might as well do a few little changes while it's out before i confine it to the engine bay. so, here goes. my plan is to have an engine that makes a good amount of power. i'm looking for maybe 200+ bhp or so, depending on how streetable it would be to attain since i don't race at all.
b16a pistons (for higher cr). what must be done to get them to work?
b16/b18 cam gears work with the h23 t-belt and underpulley, correct? does that alter the accessory belts and how they function?
valve springs. what other ones work? i was thinking of running a stage 1 or 2 cam and even though it probably won't need the springs, might as well while the option is available. also, the cam, where do i get a cam done? and larger valves, what options do i have?
for the tranny, an lsd like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-LSD-HELICAL-92-93-ACURA-INTEGRA-GSR-99-HONDA-CIVIC_W0QQitemZ160047489647QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3373 1QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) will fit, correct?
and that's enough for now...

AccordB20A
11-04-2006, 07:05 PM
oo your doing what im doing. thumbs up. looks like the 2 accords outside my room will both have worked engines in the future :)

snoopyloopy
11-04-2006, 07:15 PM
heck yeah. this vehicle will really move when i'm want it to when i'm done with it. :)

AccordB20A
11-04-2006, 07:24 PM
im basically doing what ur doing... . im doing a b16 intake and cai with headers nd exhaust. b16 pistons shaved block and head and small gasket for high comp. cams. im also gunna balance the bottom end for that extra rpm stability

at the moment mines a stock b20a with a ajusted intake cam and it pulls 1/4 miles in 15 - 15.4 not too bad for a car with all the options

rjudgey
11-05-2006, 01:31 AM
B18C pistons are suppose to give you a bit more CR than the B16, also you could go with 82mm re-bore, if you use a Ajusa Gasket kit it will give you 82mm bore space on the gasket seal rings. Just make sure that what ever pistons you go for have the right valve clearance and are flat top you could allways ask for a custom set and have them made to suit your engine. Also i'd go with H23 aftermarket rods will enable more rpm without throwing Con rods apparantly because of the long stroke the rods tend to break if you plan on revving anymore than 7k rpm.
As with valves you can get some Aftermarket Stainless steel ones from SI or Toga for the inlets at 33mm have them machine down to 30mm and fit those into the exhaust, you could have custom inlet valves from stainless steel made up but max size you could go is 34mm without having to have new seats put in also don't use old inlet valves for high revving or for converting to exhaust valves as they are not very good quality only steel so won't take the heat or the high revs. In my opinion just replace the inlet valves with stainless steel from toga or SI with if you can a waisted stem or at least a nice profile head you'll get more gains from that than going 1mm bigger and will be a lot cheaper. But if you do have the cash to burn the extra 1mm will help with a better seat profile just depends how much you have to throw at it, money spent on a custom exhaust header may be more worth while or at least a 3G lude header with the modded downpipe.
Don't forget if you can use F22 cam gears on the B20A too needs a tiny little modding just a small skim of the inside face of the pulley to make it sit nearer to the head then you can use the normal pumps and belts with the B20A which Gates does all of them. But if you want USDM parts which might be easier for you to maintain if your going to use the car a lot then go with the B18/16 pulleys and the 3G Lude pumps and pulleys and H23 Belt.
Also might be worth having a few lb's shaved of the flywheel and then seeing what clutches will fit from Clutchnet don't use any other clutch these are the best and will hold 200bhp easy and will take a dam good beating too!!
Camshafts can be bought from CatCams and they do valve springs too they do everything from mild to wild and inbetween they are not re-grinds but made from solid blanks so are top quality have a sneeky feeling that a lot of the European F3 champs Mugen B20A race engines use these. Also word of warning the stock camshafts are hollow to be lighter but that makes them very fragile!! I know cause i broke one, so they are high risk if re-ground as they could end up being broken it is possible but it also makes the valve train geometry go out slightly but you do save a few hundred dollars from not buying new blanks Cat Cams were £400 pounds which works out at about $700 and then you would need shipping on top.

rjudgey
11-05-2006, 01:37 AM
Oh forgot the LSD,

Apparantly a B16 LSD will fit not sure if you can find a Honda one do JDM ones come with LSD? If not Quaife in the U.K. does a B16 Diff i think there is one person on 3Geez that has one in his car other than that i don't know of any others? But there not cheap about £600 pounds around $1100 plus shipping has to be from an early B16 with cable tranny 90-92 Gen 2 CRX european Vtec SI or JDM vtec SI-R i believe.

snoopyloopy
11-05-2006, 10:42 PM
yeah, i heard the quaife lsd fits, i'm assuming the oem honda one probably does as well. but i want to know about those obx ones from ebay mostly because they're so attractively priced.

AccordB20A
11-06-2006, 12:28 AM
the gearbox brom the b16a2 Y1 LSD gearbox lsd fits the accord i hear. might nly be a jdm engine tho

MessyHonda
11-06-2006, 08:47 AM
the gearbox brom the b16a2 Y1 LSD gearbox lsd fits the accord i hear. might nly be a jdm engine tho

arnt all b20s JDM besides the euro...it would be cool if you can fit LSD on a accord...talk about a sleeper

RobT5580
11-10-2006, 03:10 PM
yeah, i heard the quaife lsd fits, i'm assuming the oem honda one probably does as well. but i want to know about those obx ones from ebay mostly because they're so attractively priced.

Yeah the B16A Quaife fits with no modification. I have it and it was one of the best parts i have bought especially being turbo i would get lots of wheel spin and w/o the LSD i would have had literally no traction. Its worth it if you have the money and the install is pretty easy other than getting the right size allen wrench to fit the tranny (I made one) and then releasing the clip inside was a little tricky.

snoopyloopy
11-15-2006, 03:00 PM
Yeah the B16A Quaife fits with no modification. I have it and it was one of the best parts i have bought especially being turbo i would get lots of wheel spin and w/o the LSD i would have had literally no traction. Its worth it if you have the money and the install is pretty easy other than getting the right size allen wrench to fit the tranny (I made one) and then releasing the clip inside was a little tricky.
and is the obx one essentially the same as the quaife?

RobT5580
11-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Same design i believe so i dont see why it wouldnt work. The quaife is probably overkill but its lifetime warranty made me believe it was a solid product and i dont regret spending the $1000 for it.

snoopyloopy
11-22-2006, 04:17 PM
ok. so now i know what i'm getting with my tax refund. maybe.

snoopyloopy
12-02-2008, 09:53 PM
lol so two years later, i have transmission. that's a start...

anyway, was doing a little poking around, i'm thinking i wanna redrill some b16 itbs and run those with the rebuild instead of just the b16 manifold. i don't recall anyone running b20a w/ itbs, though. so thoughts...?

Hauntd ca3
12-02-2008, 11:46 PM
b16a quad throttles?
never seen those before,not factory anyways.
toyota 20 valve 4age quad throttles, A18A/matt has been working on them for a wee while.
i was thinkin bout them 4 a while, but not on my exclusive.
talk to matt bout mounting the toyota ones.
not many mods needed i dont think to mount them,just making them run right

AccordB20A
12-03-2008, 12:22 AM
tuning the itbs are a cunt aparently .

Hauntd ca3
12-03-2008, 12:53 AM
i think that tuning is more up to the ecu and the tuner than the throttles themselves.
you'll never get a decent tune running a standard ecu or modded standard ecu because they were never designed to run such a setup.
you'd really need to run a link or similar that is designed with heaps of various channels that you can assign to do what ever you want each channel to do.
if you done all the fab work on the inlet manifold,hook up throttle cable and wire it and label all the wires .
the installer just needs to hook them up, give it power and hand it over to the tuner who only needs an hour or so to get it right.
verses god knows how many hours trying to mod a factory ecu to accept the new info and recognise what it all means and hope it works right.
i know where i'd be spending my $

2oodoor
12-03-2008, 09:51 AM
lol so two years later, i have transmission. that's a start...

anyway, was doing a little poking around, i'm thinking i wanna redrill some b16 itbs and run those with the rebuild instead of just the b16 manifold. i don't recall anyone running b20a w/ itbs, though. so thoughts...?

geez where was I at when this order was coming together???

one piece at at time like Johnny Cash's cadillac

carotman
12-03-2008, 10:01 AM
I wouldn't use the ITB with a B20A. Tuning is a bitch and similar gains can be acheived with less money and less problem.

MessyHonda
12-03-2008, 10:01 AM
are you going high revving NA b20?

snoopyloopy
12-03-2008, 10:31 AM
are you going high revving NA b20?

yeah might as well, it's a honda and who builds a honda that doesn't rev high :lol:? and if i did do itb (or even just putting it in), i figure i'll do at least obd-1 so then i'm thinking that might help with the itb control setup a bit. i was looking at twm induction site at their itb sets and they suggest running hondata at the least, so i figure a hondata obd-1 setup will be far superior to stock. although keeping in mind that living in california kinda puts a dent in that at least once every two years just for a plain b20a swap. so what's a little more headache w/ itb?

2oodoor
12-03-2008, 10:40 AM
I don't understand why you wanted a b20a to do what you want to do 7K plus rpm?? huh?
sounds like you need a B18c or B16, so when you get one just put that tranny in a crate headed to GA. :D

AccordB20A
12-03-2008, 10:47 AM
i can just imagine the amount of fuel a b20 would use at 8000rpm lol its bad enough chaning at 6300rpm.


Anyone have ne ideas on doing valve guides? is it easy?

MessyHonda
12-03-2008, 10:48 AM
tranny is in the garage...yeah im thinking of keeping the b16 manifold because it looks stockish...so when i go smog my car no one will look at me funny

snoopyloopy
12-03-2008, 03:12 PM
tranny is in the garage...yeah im thinking of keeping the b16 manifold because it looks stockish...so when i go smog my car no one will look at me funny
more like so when i get pulled over i don't get sent to state ref lol. harder to get them to see the light than smog guy.

and itb idea isn't set in stone at all yet. not exactly cheapest idea and snoopy isn't exactly running a huge budget atm. and no, don't necessarily wanna run 10000 rev limits, but i figure 7500 should be good and itbs should optimize flow in the higher range much better than stock im for sure. but it'll also depend on the cam grind i end up with. i'll most likely get a mid range grind especially if i keep car for driving, so might not due itbs for several reasons at that point. but mostly i'm wondering about feasibility and potential gains/drawbacks over b16 im with the itb setup.

A18A
12-03-2008, 04:10 PM
i bolted a set of silvertop 4age itbs to my b20a, it ran like ass cause the ports didnt line up too well & the injectors where probably just squirting petrol into the head instead of through the hole (or maybe cause it was off a toyota), might work better if i had a proper manifold for them though (or honda injectors). if i had the choice i woulda chose blacktop 4age itbs since they are almost a identical match. oh well, i got money from that experience so i aint complaining lol

snoopyloopy
12-03-2008, 04:52 PM
hmmm. interesting indeed, nice to know.

Hauntd ca3
12-03-2008, 10:46 PM
i can just imagine the amount of fuel a b20 would use at 8000rpm lol its bad enough chaning at 6300rpm.


Anyone have ne ideas on doing valve guides? is it easy?

i'd say if you rev a b20a that hard for very long, you'd end up with those fangled rod shaped crankcase ventilation holes
valve guides, talk to your engine reconditioner. cant do them yourself with out special tools

iheartjdm
12-22-2008, 02:33 PM
Hey, thanks for the info, guys...

b20a86lude
02-21-2009, 01:45 PM
yea theres alot to ask