Non-Responsive Throttle after Timing belt Change

[ChuChi]

I just finished replacing the timing belt, along with the power steering, AC, and alternator belts and the water pump and crank and cam seals for good measure on my '88 LXi auto. Ran into a funny problem with it and you guys seem to know what you're talking about. If you're as hopefull as I hope you will be maybe I'll stick around :D

Anyway, after changing all of the above I let the car idle in the driveway for ~10 minutes while I cleaned up. Turned the AC on and off, reved it a few times, backed it down the driveway ~20 feet to make room. All seemed well. Shut the car off and go in for dinner.

I come back out ~3 hours later for the rolling test, and the problem(s) start. The throttle response is nearly non-existent. Pulling off the line feels like I just took my foot of the gas and let it coast. No matter how far I push down the petal, it just creeps forward. Once the RPMs finally reach 2-2.5K the throttle kicks in. It I happen to have the petal to the floor at that time, it jumps like it should. If I happen to be off the gas at that time, it continues to creep as it should. It's only an issue at the very low RPMs in first gear. Once I get up to speed, its like nothings wrong.

If I didn't just change the timing belt I'd be looking into a throttle/vaccum/cruise control issue. Since it worked fine before I decided to be responsible and do my preventative maintence, I must have tweaked something. I found the threads below, so I'll be double checking everything tomorrow or the next day. Any other ideas? :dunno:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43295
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55443
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53911

[Pico]

Not sure but is it possible that the timing belt might be off a tooth

[ChaseR]

Does the timing belt tensioner have any free play in it?

[Oldblueaccord]

Belts off a tooth maybe two. It will run idle fine 2 teeth off. Dont ask me how I know this :) . It wont climb hills and be way donw on power. Cams retarded. It real easy to do on our cars not the best set up honda has on our cars.


wp

[MessyHonda]

get your self a timing light....

[ChuChi]

A timing issue. Of course. I just assumed that since the idle was beautiful, I had it lined up right.
So if it is off by a tooth or two, can I compensate for that by advancing or retarding the timing a few degrees? Or do I have rip it all apart again and realign?

[dillirk]

Gotta rip it apart. I did the same thing. There isnt enough adjustment to get the ignition timing rite if the cam is off and the cam timing can only be fixed by having the belt on rite.

[ChuChi]

Alright, I'll tear it apart. There goes my evening.

Thinking back to the install, I had the cam lined up pretty damn good, but shifted the crank out of place. When I was tightening the pully back on it jumped a few ribs of the belt. I took it back off and did my best to line up the little dot on the crank sproket as best as I could remember. It was on the bottom, but a little right. Is there some mark on the block to line that little dot up to that I missed?

I'll check the tensioner as well. I tightened it pretty good, but never retested it after running the engine. I guess it could have loosened as the belt equalized.

[2oodoor]

marks for crank are on the flywheel, if you want one on the crank , line it up to keyway on crank and mark the pulley.
Did you say it ran fine to begin with though, if so then how could it be the timing belt. I would check to see if something was unplugged, or floormat stuck under gas pedal, something simple. you can set the timing belt back up without tearing anything apart as long as it has not got loose off the oil pump or tensioner pulley,,,. you just loosen the tensioner bolt through the cover, pull the belt off the cam and make sure it stays up and does not fold up into cover, then line up the crank and cam, stretch that belt back on and turn the engine by hand , with plugs out of course, and then tighten t-belt pulley. done

[ChuChi]

It idled fine, never 'drove' fine. The smooth idleing is what threw me off in the first place, but someone up there said it could idle fine if it's off a tooth or two. Since thats what I was messing with yesturday, thats the first place I'll check for a fix (after the floormat or course ;)).

Any particular reason to have the plugs out while turning the engine? Just to relieve presure?

[Oldblueaccord]

Once you get the crank to TDC I put a big screwdriver thru the timing hole onto the gear to jam it.

You should be able to do it with just taking off the top cover and loosening the adjuster back as far as you dare. Be carefull about the adjuster slipping off the little tab on the block then your in a mess. I just take the bolt all the way out myself so I dont strech the belt.


wp

[Vanilla Sky]

yeah, it's to make air flow out during the compression and in during the firing cycles.

but i'm agreeing with the other guys, it's just a timing belt off a tooth or two.

[88Accord-DX]

If your off a tooth on the timing belt, you might want to consider having a second hand in helping out with the timing belt. Here is my quote that someone is trying to interperate in a previous post.

Here is a tip.
After you get TDC on the crank...."If" you can get to the belt tensioner from the top. You can take the belt off the cam spocket & then hold the belt up tight on the crank sprocket, don't let is slip down off the sprocket. While your doing that, move the cam sprocket (mark) to 12:00 postition. Put the belt back on.
That will save you from pulling the crankshaft pulley off.

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Last edited by ddude2uc : 04-23-2005 at 12:02 AM. Reason: spelling.

[ChuChi]

Yea, thats what I'm planning on. I found the shop manual in this forum too. It's got some angles that the Chiltons was missing. I've got my gf's dad to help me. It's her car anyway. Used to mine, but I traded up to a subie. :P I'm glad I didn't have to get rid of it though; still love that car!

Anyway, it'll be a balancing act. We'll have to get the crank lined up to TDC, then take the belt off the cam, adjust and put it back on. I really hope we can get it done without pulling all the drivebelts and timing belt cover off.
Current plan is tomorrow after work. I'll let you know how it goes.

[2oodoor]

Once you get the crank to TDC I put a big screwdriver thru the timing hole onto the gear to jam it.
You should be able to do it with just taking off the top cover and loosening the adjuster back as far as you dare. Be carefull about the adjuster slipping off the little tab on the block then your in a mess. I just take the bolt all the way out myself so I dont strech the belt.
wp
when I had all my side parts of , including the whole tensioner assy. the belt was still so tight it had to be 'stretched' on. From that I conclude that just loosening the bolt to just finger tight should do the trick, and make sure the belt doe not slip down into the cover. It is always tough to get the belt in, I try to make sure the belt lines up with a few grooves on the cam pulley, and push it on as you pry the belt, once its on alll but maybe five grooves and lined up you can knock the edge of the belt with a blunt object, rubberhammer, or just pull like hell with fingers to slide it across grooves and then turn the engine a little ,and usually it goes right on in place then.
Also I never stick any metal objects in spark plug hole if I plan on pressure being on it , it could scar cyl..
anyone who has any better information or translation of my hexplanation feel free to elaborate . maybe sometimes it may be better to take itall apart again,something may have bee\n overlooked.

[Jasonf860]

Mine was off 2 teeth.. I was able to line up the crank, loosen the tensioner, slide off the belt, and realign the cam and slide the belt back on. It wasn't hard at all.

[ChuChi]

Got it finished!! It was off by 2-3 teeth. I just pulled off the valve cover and top timing belt cover, slipped off the belt, realigned, and slapped it all back together. You guys kick ass for calling that one. I would've thought that if the timing was off, it wouldn't idle nice either. I learned something new today.

[Oldblueaccord]

Good deal I bet it rips now.

Remember cam timing and spark timing are differant but related.


wp

[Jasonf860]

Congrats on a job well done! Now grab a beer and celebrate!

[ChuChi]

A beer it is! Yay me!

I like this car so much better when it's running:thumbup: :D