Cylinder Head Build Up

[HondaBoy]

ok, well i'm feeling like its time to get going on my accord. so i thought i should probably get a spare head to start working on since the 3gee is my daily driver. went and found a complete head for $100, minus the distributor. i'll just use the one from my car since is in good condition. what i was planning on doing was having a local machine shop that i've decided to use do some work. i want to have the ports matched to the new header and intake manifold when i get them. i'll see what they can do about the valves and whatnot about making the size bigger. i was thinking just make the combustion chamber more efficient over all. also was going to order a cam, probably from Delta. either a 272 or 282 duration, not sure which i'd be happiest with. so what i want to end up with is a tuned cylinder head matched with an aftermarket intake manifold, dual 40mm weber carbs, pacesetter header, 282 Delta cam, and possibly shave the head a few thousands but not much if not needed. maybe see if i can get some aftermarket valves made or something. with the new cam, i'll just go ahead and get new valve springs and rocker arms, although i can have the rocker arms machined out and springs shimmed, but why skimp on this. i'm shooting for 130 hp with these mods. maybe i'm underestimating, i hope so. after the head, i will probably focus on the transmission. going from automatic to a 5 speed manual. i may get an accord 5 speed and use some integra parts, i think 4th and 5th gears are the ones swapped in and 1st 2nd and 3rd accord gears are kept. but thats farther away than working on the head. although i could do the transmission work myself here at the house most likely. and i have access to the tools and stuff at my college.

[mkymonkey]

i want to do this also. get a spare head and all. but i was wondering when rebuilding it...where would YOU get your springs and stuff from? im a total noob at this shit. so im just wondering

[HondaBoy]

the valve train parts would probably be genuine honda parts if i cant find something better or have something made. i've seen custom made rocker arms, springs and valves before for other cars so i know thats possible. i'm new in the sense of knowing where to get the parts from. considering its the A20 and not a lot is offered for it. i'll be looking for some aftermarket valve train parts though. i'd like to have this head last for a long while after building it too, so no skimping on parts like i said. this being a car i would like to think i'll still be driving in 5+ years, hopefully more with my help.

[shepherd79]

custom shit will be too expensive.
I think there is a post somewhere in performance section, and one of the members expains that if you are going to get wild cam (282 is wild cam), you wil have to change the valve springs. otherwise you may have valve float.
I think he said the ones out of prelude a dit bit stiffer.

[MessyHonda]

you guys got to talk to rjudgey.......he knows his stuff....like i said he can build a a20 in his sleep...

[mkymonkey]

i thought our engines were the same as the ones in the lude? why would the springs be different?

[bobafett]

sivalves (www.sivalves.com) might be able to help with springs. they DO offer valves for our motors. :)

[Vanilla Sky]

the a18 has stiffer springs.

[mkymonkey]

would they work on our car? and where the hell would i find them. i would have to import them huh

[HondaBoy]

well, maybe i should just get a 272 grind as this car will probably stay a daily driver? i knew about the valve float though. as for that link, i think i'll give that company a call and see what they offer. sounds good though. as i said, i wont skimp on the building of a head for my car. so any other products that arent widely know, tell me about them if you have knowledge of them. would it be correct to say that the thing holding back the A20 most is the flow of the head? thats what i've been thinking.

[MessyHonda]

well, maybe i should just get a 272 grind as this car will probably stay a daily driver? i knew about the valve float though. as for that link, i think i'll give that company a call and see what they offer. sounds good though. as i said, i wont skimp on the building of a head for my car. so any other products that arent widely know, tell me about them if you have knowledge of them. would it be correct to say that the thing holding back the A20 most is the flow of the head? thats what i've been thinking.

the more you can flow into any engine the more power you are going to make...thats why turbo gets you alot of power....cuz even tho it pushes air into the cylinders it pulls it out from the exhuast.....turbo effect....yum!...port and polish would not hurt the head...some one is selling one for 2 bills.

[HondaBoy]

well yeah i knew that much. but was wondering if the flow was one of the main problems with this engine. i mean the results other people have had with aftermarket header, intake manifold and other parts like that have led me to believe that it shouldnt be too much to get some good results. so a lot of bang for the buck in a sense when compared to converting to fi and turbo or other alternatives.

[rjudgey]

130bhp is way too conservative if your going to be running twin weber DCOE 45's with what you have planned expect easily 170bhp maybe more if you go for large valves. So this will have a knock on effect with your gearbox and clutch so you need to be prepared to re-build or upgrade these items also. Doing the Teg box conversion is a good move at the same time have the bearings upgraded and the syncros changed. Clutch go for Clutchnet flywheel and Clutch kits this will easily handle anything you can throw at it.

As for Head work.
The exhaust ports can be moddified to low a lot better.
Try if you can to get bronze guides made up and put in.
Valve springs from a Carbed 1.8 Prelude non CVCC will be stronger than what you have and will cope with either camshaft.
Larger valves can be custom made or made up from secondhand Honda exhaust valves.
Valve seats and valve head profiles are the most important thing is these are a bad shape poor fit or not multi angle or radiused your head will flow poorly and you won't get the perfromance your looking for.
If you do all of the above your exhaust will need a new main pipe on the header with a 2.25" size and the rest of the system will need to be at least 2.25" with mandrel bends if they are not mandrel bends then you will need at least 2.5" pipes on the exhaust system so that when they do bend the pipes it will crush down to 2.25".
SI Valves look like they could certainly sort you out they even have some stuff that looks like it could fit a B20A too so might look into that myself.

Hardest thing your going to have to find is getting someone to fabricate a inlet manifold for twin Weber DCOE's can be done but finding someone who can is another mission, preferably one made from alluminium is best lighter and easier to make nice finish on inside for fuel and air to mix up in, failing that steel will get the job done but weigh a tonne and will be not so nice inside for the fuel and air to flow through.

If you get all this right you could have a possibility of getting around 200bhp maybe more but if you do prepare to spend some money on Rods and forged pistons because if your running a stock block with this head on it will destroy itself fairly quickly you'll get more ring wear, the bearings will collapse from extra revs and pressure, and also the rods or bolts may snap killin engine and probably damaging head as well.

[HondaBoy]

i was acutally planning on 40 mm carbs, not 45 mm. later on i may get to the bottom end. but i may consider some new parts for the bottom, depending on how easily i can get them and whatnot with money. so i have way under estimated what i'm wanting to do? hmm. well i may just try and get a whole engine to work on. that would be easier and i would still be able to drive the car while in the process of building it. then when i'm ready just swap the whole thing in. assembling the engine out of the car would be so much nicer too and probably better so things go smoother. i could probably get the whole engine and transmission right now for about $400, maybe a little more but not much. i was going to run an automatic for now. later, i was thinking of getting a 5 speed and putting new parts into it, using the original gears if they arent chewed up. probably a decent clutch thats suitable for the street and not too hard to drive on. if i could be patient, i can probably just do a whole engine build to swap in. maybe like about this time next year would look about right. getting parts and money together and finally assembling and installing it would be in a years time depending on how much time i have to work on it at times and the time it takes for a shop to machine the head and block.

[HondaBoy]

yeah, i've ordered from them before. good place to get parts.

[rjudgey]

Oh if yours is an auto i would definately get the engine and gearbox plus all bits from a donar car before doing this, the Webers vacuum pulse will seriously upset the way the gearbox changes gear, you'll be on your own on that one as i believe no one has put webers onto a car with an auto box on?

And yes it would be a lot easier to re-build a scrapyard block and then have it all nice and shiny and clean ready to put straight into the car, and as you say you want a stick box then even easier as you could just nick everything from the manual donar and bolt it all onto the new engine, with a swap like that you'd be done in a day and up and running easy. most difficult bit would eb taking the old foot pedals our and then deciding whether you should change the dash from auto to manual.

[HondaBoy]

oh yeah, i'd change the gauges and stuff out for sure. i'd try and make it correct as possible. dont the pedals just unbolt as a unit? i thought they did but not sure. either way i could weld them in if needed and all that. and just get the master cylinder out of the same car if its good.

[HondaBoy]

well hook it up man. i'm up for them. what kind are they? i've seen the diamond forged pistons and heard some good things about them. i was thinking of what i was wanting to do to my head and whatnot, thinking of how much i was going to be spending. i think i may just get the intake manifold and carbs for now. later on, get the engine to start building. maybe try and gather up some parts for it in the mean time. i'm still waiting on my header pipe. its well over a month now since i ordered it. nopi is being a bitch about it and not giving me any info on it. bastards. probably wont order from them again. oh, if you didnt know i've orded a pacesetter header, getting it ceramic coated through nopi.

[LXi87Accord]

sivalves (www.sivalves.com) might be able to help with springs. they DO offer valves for our motors. :)

This website says that the B20A3 has the same valves, is this true?