View Full Version : oil filter blowing up on cold starts?????
the other morning i went to start the accord and the mf blew up....
drained oil and put a new filter and oil, the sob pushed the o-ring out...
I then reseated the o-ring put it back on and tightend the shit out of it and it still pushed the o-ring out.....
I put on a $12 k&n oil filter tightend it up good and it worked!
I went for a stroll and everything was fine..
last night i went to park the car in the garage and pop!!:wtf: :rant:
nice trail of oil from my apartment to the garage....
any idea's???
on my other thread i had posted that the car was smoking when cold and on decel, I'm thinking that it is because the unusial high oil pressure during start up.
newaccorddriver
10-29-2006, 07:30 AM
it could possibly be the oil pressure you know. although im not sure what could be going on... try tightening it just a slight bit more
the first filter actually seperated at the seam...
i haven't looked yet this morning to se if it pushed the o-ring or poped the case...
shepherd79
10-29-2006, 07:47 AM
why would there be a high pressure? did you install aftermarket oil pump?
connect the gauge and check the oil pressure.
have you done oil flush or anything like that?
Legend_master
10-29-2006, 08:04 AM
why would there be a high pressure? did you install aftermarket oil pump?
connect the gauge and check the oil pressure.
have you done oil flush or anything like that?
Yes that is odd, even a perfromance oil pump would have to be pretty powerfull to seperate an oil filter.
bobafett
10-29-2006, 09:41 AM
i have an aftermarket pump, and i do have a bit higher pressure than stock when the car is cold, but not THAT much... and i have never had problems with filters grenading! lol
2ndGenGuy
10-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Maybe there is a pluged oil channel or something after the filter. That might cause the pressure to build up and pop the filter I suppose. But then that means that the rest of your engine is getting no oil!
Maybe there is a pluged oil channel or something after the filter. That might cause the pressure to build up and pop the filter I suppose. But then that means that the rest of your engine is getting no oil!
it runs smooth no pinging at all......
and i checked the filter and it poped at the seam again.....
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/193/piston030pw5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
sorry about the huge pic... I thought i resized it.
Legend_master
10-29-2006, 10:22 AM
sorry about the huge pic... I thought i resized it.
I wouldent crank that motor up untill you find out the problem. That could be very seriose. Those filters are made to hold some stong PSI. Do you have the block vented? There could be alot of crank case pressure.
MessyHonda
10-29-2006, 11:13 AM
post pics of the old filter that blew up
Cheeseburger
10-29-2006, 11:14 AM
hmm i thought the K&N could handle more psi
I wouldent crank that motor up untill you find out the problem. That could be very seriose. Those filters are made to hold some stong PSI. Do you have the block vented? There could be alot of crank case pressure.
thats probably the only thing i changed...i had the pcv hooked to the intake manifold as stock, and it acted like a huge vacume leak, so what i did was add a filter to the to the oil seporator to vent the crank case....
Since then the car has smoked on start up, Thinking it was the turbo getting too much oil or valve guides were worn i discounted it as that.
messy: id threw that one away after i cut it open to see if it was clogged...
cheese:they do hold a significantly more pressure.. something like 250#'s
RamThis
10-29-2006, 12:05 PM
Put your PCV back in and try running it that way. Sounds like you are creating some hellacious crankcrase pressure somehow. I've heard of oil filters blowing off before, but usually because the oil passage was blocked due to improper assembly of the engine. Never heard of it happening to a car just "out of the blue".....:wtf:
Put your PCV back in and try running it that way. Sounds like you are creating some hellacious crankcrase pressure somehow. I've heard of oil filters blowing off before, but usually because the oil passage was blocked due to improper assembly of the engine. Never heard of it happening to a car just "out of the blue".....:wtf:
i dont have time today to check it but i'll take all the imput i can get thanks..
Oldblueaccord
10-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Be some pretty good pressure to blow it. most of the regular filters might blow at 100 psi. Can't see how the PVC would effect the oil pressure passages that be bad anyway. The last filter you took off the O-ring came with it ? Maybe you have 2 O-rings stacked on there.
No oil pressure guage I guess ?
wp
Be some pretty good pressure to blow it. most of the regular filters might blow at 100 psi. Can't see how the PVC would effect the oil pressure passages that be bad anyway. The last filter you took off the O-ring came with it ? Maybe you have 2 O-rings stacked on there.
No oil pressure guage I guess ?
wp
the pcv evacuates and relives crank case pressure, the o rings came off with the filters so that 's a no go.
I got rid of my old oil pressure guage after it spewed hot oil all over my legs and havent bought a electronic one yet. I'll pick one up tommarrow along with some sea-foam.
lostforawhile
10-29-2006, 05:44 PM
I'm almost positive your pressure relief valve is somehow stuck,it should have opened way before you built up that much pressure. take your filter base off and take the valve apart and look at it.
Vanilla Sky
10-29-2006, 07:11 PM
you're turbocharged, right? could be something else all together.
I'm almost positive your pressure relief valve is somehow stuck,it should have opened way before you built up that much pressure. take your filter base off and take the valve apart and look at it.
WELL SHIT! i had no freekin clue that there was a prv in there....then again i havent looked at the book either.:slap:
well I went and bought a galon of 5w30, 10w30, sea-foam and 2 new filters and a autometer electronic oil pressure guage...
so you all know what i will be doing tommarrow...
thanks lost!
you're turbocharged, right? could be something else all together.
it's not the turbo because it is at the end of the line...
while i was at the parts store i asked them if the pcv would cause the oil pressure to rise. they say that i could be building enough crank case pressure to affect the overall oil pressure by literally forcing oil into the pump.
i forgot to mention that it is a stock pump.
Vanilla Sky
10-29-2006, 09:02 PM
but couldn't excessive blowby cause your oil pressure to rise to the point where the filter would burst?
i'm more apt to think like tim, but i certainly think it's a possibility.
Civic Accord Honda
10-29-2006, 10:40 PM
thats just werd that that would happen never herd of anythang like this b-4
Blkblurr
10-30-2006, 07:20 AM
I would agree on the prv being off. It controls the oil pressure delivery out of the oil pump. You could also have a clogged oil bypass. This wuld force all the oil to go into the filter and thus raise the pressure.
lostforawhile
10-30-2006, 01:56 PM
it's not the turbo because it is at the end of the line...
while i was at the parts store i asked them if the pcv would cause the oil pressure to rise. they say that i could be building enough crank case pressure to affect the overall oil pressure by literally forcing oil into the pump.
i forgot to mention that it is a stock pump.
what parts store is this? so I don't go there. if you were building so much crankcase pressure that it split a k&n filter,you would have oil blowing out every seal on the engine. especially the valve cover,it's just a rubber seal sitting on a flat surface. also what is your breather on the top of the valve cover hooked to? any excesss pressure would also go out that. all it has is a baffle in the valve cover to keep oil from splashing up into it. if you take off your filter holder,take off the filter,take out the oil pressure sending unit,then it just bolts to the block,the pressure regulator is built into the side of it. if it's been in there a long time they sometimes gum up. it comes apart pretty easy. it's just a spring loaded valve that opens at a preset pressure and the excess oil goes back to the pan. with this jammed it's like having a hydraulic pump on the engine. it can generate tremendous pressure. if I remember correctly it looks just like the inside of the power steering pump,the only difference is the relief valves are set at different pressures. as far as the pcv valve acting like a vaccume leak, did you install it in the right direction? or is it the right valve? the proper circuit for blowby vapors is air enters the valve cover through the air cleaner,goes down through the engine picking up blowby vapors,is picked up again at the back of the oil pan,goes up through the breather hose on the pan to the oil-vapor separator,vapor goes to the pcv valve,liquid oil runs back to the pan,then it's pulled into the engine through the pcv valve and into the intake manifold. you want to hook your pcv valve up properly,not just for emisions,but it's very important in keeping sludge out of your engine. without it blowby vapors and water vapor will just condense in the engine and won't be pulled out. if you have the correct one,the vaccume at the intake manifold has been calculated to be correct with the valve operating. make sure you check your hose from the pan to the separator,check the separator for cracks or leaks,and check the molded hose from the separator to the pcv valve and so on. any one of these could upset the vaccume at the valve. if your pressure regulator valve on your filter adaptor is ok,there are other possibilties that aren't so easy to fix. one is that the oil restrictor between the block and the head is clogged,and no oil is reaching your valve train,this would involve removing the head to fix,the other is you have possibly spun a bearing and it's blocking the oil flow to the crank causing the pressure to be sky high. don't drive the car until you have verified the problem,you could wash out the bearings causing damage,you can also destroy your oil seals under presssure. hope this helps
if you take off your filter holder,take off the filter,take out the oil pressure sending unit,then it just bolts to the block,the pressure regulator is built into the side of it. if it's been in there a long time they sometimes gum up. it comes apart pretty easy. it's just a spring loaded valve that opens at a preset pressure and the excess oil goes back to the pan. with this jammed it's like having a hydraulic pump on the engine. it can generate tremendous pressure. if I remember correctly it looks just like the inside of the power steering pump,the only difference is the relief valves are set at different pressures.
Got a hammer?
hit the nail right on the head...
i took the filter and assembly off.
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2050/piston037kh5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I could'nt have cut it off any better even with a can opener..
anyway this is what i found....
the spring and cap looked good, but the valve wouldent slide out...:wtf:
I bent 2 pic tools trying to push it out or even break it free. (nothing)
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8176/piston039zi3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7695/piston040kp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
thank god i have a spare block laying around, i pulled that one cleaned it up put it on. refilled oil put on the new sending unit..
reluctantly i started it........
all was good...she didnt even smoke!
I really appreciate all the help..
I think i'll run it tommarrow till it reaches operating temp kill it then do another oil change.
Vanilla Sky
10-30-2006, 09:22 PM
since you have a few of them blown apart, i'd like to see what all of those filters look like internally. i would love to see the way they're made. just snap a decent pic of each filter element and bypass filter.
88Accord-DX
10-30-2006, 10:44 PM
Little add on: (text I have)
Pressure Releif Valve
The oil pump can deliver oil at a high volume than the engine requires. To prevent excessive oil pressure, the system uses a pressure releif valve. The releif valve may be located in the block or part of the pump. The releif valve has a spring loaded ball or plunger located in an oil passage. When the oil pressure exceeds a present limit, it pushes the ball or plunger against the spring. This opens a releif port, allowing oil to return to the oil pan. A relief valve that is stuck open will cause low oil pressure. A releif valve that is stuck closed will cause high oil pressure. High oil pressure can cause oil leaks around engine gasket surfaces.
RamThis
10-30-2006, 11:08 PM
Wow that's a new one on me. I'll make sure to check mine while I have the engine out to make sure it's good to go. Great post lost!!!!
AccordB20A
10-31-2006, 10:52 PM
man there is a lot of shit in an engine that affects oil flow. i think i fucked my old engine by pipeing the pcv valve to the top one. then the big ends got louder and louder and the oil light started to come on when it was hot i was like what the face. anyways i dunno if it was the pcv valve or something else. i wont be trying that again
lostforawhile
11-01-2006, 07:43 PM
since you have a few of them blown apart, i'd like to see what all of those filters look like internally. i would love to see the way they're made. just snap a decent pic of each filter element and bypass filter.
here YA go,I still have this,this is the same filter they are testing for the prelude site that we use on our cars. this will really open your eyes on filters,and them not being all they seem. and whatever you do don't use a freakin fram,or I'll have to :slap: you
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/old_filters.shtml
shepherd79
11-01-2006, 08:22 PM
man that is one good info.
I always use STP, bosch or mobil 1 (when i can afford it).
rustlude87
11-01-2006, 08:44 PM
are turbo cars supposed to run pcv valves? go to http://homemadeturbo.com/ and see what they say about pcv, because there is some certain way to run one
RamThis
11-01-2006, 09:40 PM
Cool my Rams and my Acura get Mobil-1 filters ONLY. I used a cheapo Fram filter on the 3G only because, well, it was a cheapo, old car lol. With the new engine going in eventually, it will also see Mobil-1 filters from now on.
88Accord-DX
11-02-2006, 07:57 PM
Well, I will say one last thing in this thread. DON'T use Fram oil filters!!
lostforawhile
11-02-2006, 08:03 PM
Well, I will say one last thing in this thread. DON'T use Fram oil filters!!that goes without saying. fram it now.....dam it!!@#$$%$#@@&&* later
MessyHonda
11-02-2006, 08:27 PM
Well, I will say one last thing in this thread. DON'T use Fram oil filters!!
that is wut i got last time when i changed my oil.:uh: i guess K&N for now on
StressSolutions
11-12-2006, 07:29 AM
Too much crankcase pressure would blow out the pan gasket,not the oil filter. The oil filter is connected to the oil main passages, not the crankcase.
good luck with the challenge.
Ichiban
11-15-2006, 10:32 PM
Too much crankcase pressure would push the dipstick out of the tube, before anything else would happen.
88Accord-DX
11-15-2006, 10:56 PM
Excessive crankcase pressure is generally caused from too much blow-by around the piston rings & will push oil up in the PCV valve.
Ichiban
11-15-2006, 10:58 PM
...yes, what I meant was, the dipstick would come out of the tube before a pan gasket or oil filter burst. By the time the dipstick pops out, the PCV is ingesting huge amounts of oil.
88Accord-DX
11-15-2006, 11:20 PM
...yes, what I meant was, the dipstick would come out of the tube before a pan gasket or oil filter burst. By the time the dipstick pops out, the PCV is ingesting huge amounts of oil.
True, I'll agree with you now.
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