I need a solution to my slow running motor! And my clutch feels funny? [Archive] - 3geez.com

gsus

11-16-2006, 09:12 AM

For the last year ever since the timing belt was replaced my engine just hasn’t been running strong. I’ve checked the timing and it appears to be fine… but I’m starting to thing that maybe the people who did the timing belt maybe had the cam jump a tooth or something? The only reason I think that is because I did something similar to that in my MR2, I accidentally skipped a tooth when I did my timing belt, and now my MR2 has now low end power, the power was shifted towards the top of the RPM range. Although in the accord, it seems to be a crappy powerband all around :(.

The engine revs freely when it’s in neutral… Once I get it in gear, the engine just doesn’t want to speed up… takes forever to get through the RPM’s and it feels like I’m dragging so much weight. I remember my old Accord being a lot better than this, so there is definitely something wrong here. Although the car does not feel that bad when you are light on the throttle, seems to go okay… but once you get on it, that’s when the car feels like its dragging some real weight. Does that make sense to any of you guys?

Another thing is that my clutch feels really weird, but it just started feeling this way recently. The clutch feels stiff at first, but once you get halfway through it, the clutch pedal just drops to the floor. As for the grabbing point… it has shifted up towards the top of the clutch pedal movement. Could this be a simple fix, or am I looking at replacing something?

This is an 89 Accord Coupe LX-i with about 180k miles on it now

TIA
Hopefully I can have it running nicely before winter truly hits here.

AccordEpicenter

11-16-2006, 01:23 PM

yeah it could be a tooth off. Ive seen people change timing belts and do shit like that, unacceptable!!!

Neuspeed87lx

11-21-2006, 08:31 PM

could it be ur clutch is slipping ? that would make the car feel doggish, it smell like clutch burning anytimes?

gsus

11-21-2006, 09:15 PM

yeah it could be a tooth off. Ive seen people change timing belts and do shit like that, unacceptable!!!

While i do hope that this is the problem... at the same time i hope it is not as i would have to fix the problem.. which means more time and/or money would have to go into it :(. I looked on the sticky at the top for instructions (the one with the FSM's) on how i would go about fixing the problem if the belt is off by a tooth... but i had no success. Is this a difficult job on the accord?

could it be ur clutch is slipping ? that would make the car feel doggish, it smell like clutch burning anytimes?

definitely not the clutch... or at least i hope! I had a new Exedy clutch put in it last year when it had 177k miles (bought the car for $200 with a bad clutch & brakes). I'm getting close to hitting 190K miles... so I'm almost sure that it's not the clutch... no clutch burning smell, holds the rpm's fine... it's just the clutch pedal feel that is annoying.

Oldblueaccord

11-22-2006, 11:24 AM

Well remember the car is realatively slow comapred to news cars today. Its just hard to tell unless you dyno it or run a quarter mile with it.

Let me ask you this does it grind when you shift gears? you can adjust the clutch some it might need it after a few thousands miles esp being pretty new.

As far as the power what will the car do? will it go 100 mph ?can you pull a hill on a freeway in 5th or are you down in 3rd gear 45 mph holding people like me back.

wp

gsus

11-22-2006, 11:36 AM

Well remember the car is realatively slow comapred to news cars today. Its just hard to tell unless you dyno it or run a quarter mile with it.
Well this is actually my second 89 Accord LX-I (my first one was lost due to my irresponsibility… I let a girl drive). With the old Accord, I was able to chirp the tires in second after running through first. With this one… it takes a while to get to the higher RPM’s… so no chirping once I get into second gear.

Let me ask you this does it grind when you shift gears? you can adjust the clutch some it might need it after a few thousands miles esp being pretty new.
I have only experienced grinding twice in the car… I’m pretty sure that was due to user error (clutch pedal wasn’t all the way to the floor when shifting). Other than that there is no grinding, albeit the shifter feels kind of notchy… but I remember my old one being like that too. I guess readjusting the clutch cable would be the best thing to do first (it costs nothing but time).

As far as the power what will the car do? will it go 100 mph ?can you pull a hill on a freeway in 5th or are you down in 3rd gear 45 mph holding people like me back.
wp
If I’m not mashing the gas pedal the car will get up to speed almost effortlessly (to a degree of course). Once you mash the pedal… the car seems to stumble over it’s self and not want to go any faster without seeming to work pretty darn hard.
Last time I was on the highway, I had trouble getting up to 90mph… it would get there, but very VERY slowly. Even if I dropped it down a gear on the highway to get going, it helps very little because the hesitation just holds it back.

Oldblueaccord

11-22-2006, 11:43 AM

well besides the tune up stuff plugs cap rotor wires fuel filter valves adjustment if its been a while and reset the timing or time it "by ear " so its doesnt ping

maybe you cat is clogged ever smell the rotten egg smell real bad? if it rpms real well other wise and the timing belt is spot one (which its easy to mess up I have plenty) Maybe your injectors arent right.

Can you do a compression test as well that another free deal. Maybe one cylinder is dead or something.

wp

2oodoor

11-22-2006, 12:15 PM

clutch problem sounds like its low on clutch brake fluid in the slave cylinder, unless its a cable, then it needs adjusting so you have some free play.

As for the power, Im having similar problems, I do all my own work so I have not body to blame things on... hah ha
I have weber conversion, but my linkage is set where the secondaries are not coming into play, and I can get up to 80 mph off just half throttle. but then, It would do 70 with blown head gasket runnnig on 2.5 or 3 cylinders too so, What the.....anyway, I had DC header with a glasspack style muffler and turn down and it had a lot more power, Now I have the same thing but just have the rest of the exhaust finished out the back and I swear it seems like something aint right. I may just do like A20A1 mentions in a how to and do away with the first fuel filter by the tank and just use the underhood one,.Also make sure the distributor centrifical advance is not frozen underneath pickup coil inside dist, that sounds like the problem your having as well, You should check that , use a timing light and see if motor ignition timing is advancing correctly. good luck

gsus

11-22-2006, 12:39 PM

well besides the tune up stuff plugs cap rotor wires fuel filter valves adjustment if its been a while and reset the timing or time it "by ear " so its doesnt ping
I did a tune up when I first got the car... which was February of '05 (new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, air filter & fuel filter). I've tried adjusting the dizzy, it only made things worse than they are now. I haven't done the valve adjustment... seems complicated but that might be something to look into.

maybe you cat is clogged ever smell the rotten egg smell real bad? if it rpms real well other wise and the timing belt is spot one (which its easy to mess up I have plenty)

Can't say that I've smelt anything that horrible around the car, it passed emission earlier this year if that tells you anything? The rpm's are actually pretty low sometimes (car shakes, when it's at a stand still, when you get on the brakes or activate the heater, lights and all the power consuming stuff). I'm thinking that can be fixed with the idle valve will cure this. As for the timing belt being spot on... I checked it with a timing light and set it to the proper time mark, but I get the same hesitation which is now making me think that it is truly a jumped tooth on the t-belt.

Maybe your injectors arent right.
Can you do a compression test as well that another free deal. Maybe one cylinder is dead or something.
wp

I do have a compression gauge, I'll definately look into that... assuming i have the right fitting for the accord's engine (bought it used with Toyota fittings... for my MR2). Is there anyway to test the fuel injectors(OHM testing them?)?

ChuChi

11-22-2006, 12:44 PM

If it is the timing belt off a tooth, it's a pretty easy fix. I had the same problem a few weeks ago, but it was ~3 teeth and VERY noticable. The car wasn't really drivable on hills or the freeway.
http://3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55747

1 Remove valve cover and upper timing belt cover
2 Take belt off of cam gear. Need a friend here to make sure the belt doesn't go slack and fall of the crank/tensioner as well.
3 Line up crank using timing mark in the transmission
4 Line up cam using marks on the cam gear
5 Put belt back on (hardest part of the whole process)
6 Replace covers
7 Bask in glory

gsus

11-22-2006, 12:46 PM

clutch problem sounds like its low on clutch brake fluid in the slave cylinder, unless its a cable, then it needs adjusting so you have some free play.

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?

I may just do like A20A1 mentions in a how to and do away with the first fuel filter by the tank and just use the underhood one,.Also make sure the distributor centrifical advance is not frozen underneath pickup coil inside dist, that sounds like the problem your having as well, You should check that , use a timing light and see if motor ignition timing is advancing correctly. good luck

Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

gsus

11-22-2006, 12:54 PM

If it is the timing belt off a tooth, it's a pretty easy fix. I had the same problem a few weeks ago, but it was ~3 teeth and VERY noticable. The car wasn't really drivable on hills or the freeway.
http://3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55747
1 Remove valve cover and upper timing belt cover
2 Take belt off of cam gear. Need a friend here to make sure the belt doesn't go slack and fall of the crank/tensioner as well.
3 Line up crank using timing mark in the transmission
4 Line up cam using marks on the cam gear
5 Put belt back on (hardest part of the whole process)
6 Replace covers
7 Bask in glory

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??

gfrg88

11-22-2006, 12:57 PM

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?
Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

the lxi doesnt have two fuel filters, only the carbed ones do. all 3rd gen accords have cable clutch. have you checked the timing with a timing light??? try and set the flyewheel to the correct timing specs. then check teh camgear to see if the arrow is pointing up. if it is, then im guessing you need to change your o2 sensors, plugs, etc. good tune-up.

gfrg88

11-22-2006, 12:59 PM

Oldblueaccord

11-22-2006, 01:13 PM

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?
Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

Yes and No

fuel injection one filter and we have a clutch cable

advacning the timing the idle will go up if your looking at the marks they will move but I cant remember which way I think towards the firewall.

wp

2oodoor

11-22-2006, 02:33 PM

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??
I think you need to loosen the tensioner after step one,you can do that as well without removing anything , the tensioner bolt is really long and sticks outta the timing cover, just loosen it a little bit, and so you can screw it with your hand so its not floppy. then set everything and tighen it up.

Yes I was not sure about the EFI filters,and it would not be a good idea to cut back on filtration of those anyway.

And NO the vacuum advance is not what I am talking about, the centrifical, dam I cant spell that word, its weights under the pickup plate inside the dist that fly out with rpm and advance the ign timing also, as you increase engine rpm, a stuck centrifrigal advance can really make a dead flat spot in power.

gsus

11-22-2006, 02:42 PM

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna give all this a wirl tomorrow morning, and finish working on it on the weekend if I don't finish by noon.

88Accord-DX

11-22-2006, 09:15 PM

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??
After you take the valve cover off & top timing cover, make sure the lines on the cam sprocket are parallel with the top of the cylinder head. Then look through the inspection window on the transmission case for the TDC mark on the flexplate/flywheel, it should be hitting the pointer in there. (which is just under the distributor)

88Accord-DX

11-23-2006, 02:15 AM

I forgot to say that if your going to mess with the timing belt, have a second hand on holding the timing belt up when you pull it off. (cause you need to work the tensioner at the same time)

You don't want the timing belt to slip off the crank sprocket. I'm not going to repeat words, just read up on the link in this thread. People starting to realize I know what I'm talking about.

gsus

11-26-2006, 12:08 AM

Well, I’ll got lazy on Thanksgiving morning… so I didn’t do the T-belt readjustment that day. BUT, I did get a chance to do it today.
.
Here is what I basically did…
-I aligned the flywheel’s machined mark to the pointer on the block.
-I removed the spark plug from the #1 & #4 Cyl’s to verify that I was hitting TDC.
-Then I removed the VC
-Then the Cam pulley cover
.
I then noticed that the “UP” portion of the cam gear was pointing down. So based on my understanding, I needed to alight the cam pulley in the up right position.
.
So I proceeded by…
-Loosening the tensioner
-Removing the belt from the T-belt from the cam pulley
-Backing off TDC (to prevent the valves from hitting the Cyl’s while turning the cam pulley)
-Rotated the cam pulley to get the “UP” mark in the correct place (as well as aligning the 2 little ticks on the side to be parallel with the block).
-I then turned the crank back to TDC (with the flywheel’s machined mark aligned with the blocks pointer.)
-Finally I reinstalled the T-belt on to the pulley, tightened the tensioner and put everything else back together.
Now the car seems to be worse off! The car only responds to VERY LIGHT throttle inputs. I tried messing with the distributor thinking it would help… but no such luck! Prior to that I used a timing light, and timed the car to the machined mark on the flywheel…What did I do wrong? Or what do I need to do to get this thing running right?
.
TIA!
I have not had a chance to do a compression check... because I forgot my compression gauge at home today. I'm hoping to do that tomorrow, assuming I have the right fitting for the engine.

88Accord-DX

11-26-2006, 08:15 AM

Interesting....
Another thing to do, is adjust your valve lash on all the rocker arms. Do a vacuum gauge check on your vacuum diapham on the distributor. Check each spark plug is getting spark with a extra plug. Definetley do a compression check. Something isn't right somewhere, make sure you not on TDC on the exhaust stroke side of the crank when you turned the cam sprocket 180 degrees out. (which I doubt it would run at all, but you never know)

Oldblueaccord

11-26-2006, 01:35 PM

Himm

well when you first checked it for TDC you prolly where on the exhaust stroke not the compression so the cam sprocket was right to be facing down. remember in a 4 cyl engine the piston comes up to the top to push the exhaust out the exhaust valve will be open.

Now when you redid it Im not sure why thats not correct it should be. If the piston is at the top and both valves are closed. but im thinking the distributor is wrong now but im not sure on that.

wp

gsus

11-26-2006, 06:54 PM

This blows, I had work today, and tomorrow from 8am to 9pm... so I won't have a chance to look everything over until Tuesday. The car is sitting in my friends garage until then. I'm going to double check my work on tuesday after work, to see if i messed up and while I'm at it I'll do my compression check. I'll keep you guys posted. If you guys have any other ideas though.. please feel free to post them.

88Accord-DX

11-26-2006, 08:08 PM

When you put TDC on #1 piston compression stroke, both the intake & exhaust valves will be closed. Pull you valve cover off again & varify that. Oldblue & I are seeing the eye to eye on that. (The rocker arms will not be riding on the camshaft lobes)

Edit- one other thing to look at is that your rotor inside the dizzy is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire inside it.

gsus

11-27-2006, 06:18 AM

When you put TDC on #1 piston compression stroke, both the intake & exhaust valves will be closed. Pull you valve cover off again & varify that. Oldblue & I are seeing the eye to eye on that. (The rocker arms will not be riding on the camshaft lobes)
Edit- one other thing to look at is that your rotor inside the dizzy is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire inside it.

Sounds good, i'll check that on Tuesday! :). Hopefully it's an easy fix or just simply a matter of me redoing the timing belt again.

gsus

11-29-2006, 02:06 PM

okay guys, I got a chance to do a compression check yesterday:
cyl4 - 158psi, cyl3- 160psi, cyl2 - 155psi, cyl1 - 160psi
.
I took the valve cover off, but I ended up confusing myself. I couldnt make sense of things. Another thing I thought I would mentions is this:
When the cam is pointing up and piston at TDC, the machined mark (which i guess is supposed to be white?) shows up.
When the cam is pointing down (piston at TDC?), the RED 15deg mark showed up.
.
Now I remember when I timed the car, I connected the timing light to the #1cyl spark plug wire, and the machined (white?) mark showed up, but not the red one. Does this tell you guys anything.
.
I did forget to check to see where the dizzy was pointing when the engine was at TDC. So I'm going to check that today.
.
As a last resort, I'm thinking of putting the timing back to where it was before i messed with anything because it atleast ran better that way :dunno:

Oldblueaccord

11-29-2006, 02:15 PM

well white mark is TDC the red mark it like 15 degrees advanced where it should be at idle with the timing light. So right off your 15 degrees retarded it would be down on power. The compresion checks out that about what my car reads so it should still be pretty peppy.

Advancing the timing the idle of the car goes up is how you can tell.

Hopefully you have enough slot room on the dist. bolts to advance it up. To much advance and it will ping on you pretty bad BTW

Edit: just as another thought make sure the 2 vacuum lines to the dist. are not switched around. Not sure if this would cause a problem but is easy to check.

wp

gsus

11-29-2006, 02:59 PM

Advancing the timing the idle of the car goes up is how you can tell.
Hopefully you have enough slot room on the dist. bolts to advance it up. To much advance and it will ping on you pretty bad BTW
Yeah, I remember going both ways (as far as the dizzy would go), and the red mark never showed up. The mechanic next door was thinking that it might be the dizzy that is causing the problem, he suspects it was installed upside down... Could that be a posibillity?

Edit: just as another thought make sure the 2 vacuum lines to the dist. are not switched around. Not sure if this would cause a problem but is easy to check.
wp
I'll have to check those aswell then.

gsus

11-29-2006, 04:10 PM

I got one more question for you guys, and maybe this is where I’m messing up.
My flywheel has 4 timing marks.
There are 2 other timing marks right by the red mark, and then there is one that is all by itself.
My flywheel does not appear to have a white marked timing mark… all off them are just machined (indented) marks, except for the red one. Now I’m wondering if I was supposed to line the flywheels with one of the timing marks next to the red timing mark?
Here is a craptastic (not to scale) drawing I made on Paint:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5563/fwyf2.png
Hopefully, I’ll get an answer before I head to my friends house to start working on it again (at about 7pm CST).
TIA!

gsus

11-29-2006, 06:39 PM

I redid the timing belt because I wanted to be sure I used the correct timing mark. But now I can't get the belt to tension at all :(. I put the car in gear, and turned the crank pulley bolt counter-clockwise, and tightened the tensioner. BUT the belt still has slack in it. When i turn the crank pulley bolt again, to test the timing marks... and you can see the belts slack.

Did I mess up the tensioner? or did the belt come off of it's track somewhere?

Oldblueaccord

11-29-2006, 07:53 PM

Well as far as the double marks im not sure other than the one mark 180 deg. out might be used to help with the valve adjustment procedure.

As far as the timing belt slack I would bet the tensioner is not on its little tab on the block correctly. So when you tighten the bolt its holding it in place but not pivoting correctly. There is also a spring attached to it as well that may have slipped off.

If you went to time it and you couldn't get the red mark in view then you where off a tooth or 2 with the belt most likely.

I think we determined in this thread or another recent one that the distributor can only go into the cams slot one way so you cant get it 180 out. or like one slot on the cam/oil pump gear like on a chevy.

wp

gsus

11-30-2006, 08:45 AM

Oldblueaccord

11-30-2006, 03:53 PM

alotta times the tensioner can be had locally. Im haveing trouble getting a key made at the dealerships here so go figure ?

I think you could get it together first see if it makes a differance. look down thru the lower cover or remove the bolt behind the water pump pulley and see if the tensioner has slipped off the tit on the block. The bolt will hold it in place but it wont tension the belt.

wp

2oodoor

11-30-2006, 04:12 PM

Man weather really sucks here, it was 60degrees here a day ago, and now its 30degrees with chances of snow. I’m going to replace the timing belt and tensioner since it seems like I have to do the whole timing belt job just to get to the tenstioner.
Do you guys know if Honda has the timing belt and tensioner in stock? If not, I’ll just go to a local parts store. I want to start working on it tonight, before it gets any colder.
not a bad idea to repl both. /from the way you describe your cars flywheel is like mine, none of those painted marks are tdc to set up timing belt. if you get #1, the cyl closest to the cam pulley, to tdc, you look real closeat the flywheel and you will see a scribed mark and a scribed sideways "T" that line is tdc,it is not as deep of a scribe as the other marks, go figure.... then you line up the cam pulley where up is up and the two scribes on the cam pulley are aligned with the head on both sides. You have to double check it after you tighten tensioner, it will pull it a tooth or two off sometimes. You should then see the red mark with timing light once its back together, if you dont see it by moving the dist around a little while its running then the dist is 180 out.
I really think you put it out of time after the first time you adjusted it.
make sure you check the links on this thread and also , the autozone link on the main page,off techicals,for a picture description of the process. It is all pretty simple, but you just have to pay attention. good luck with it, keep posting till its fixed!

88Accord-DX

11-30-2006, 06:48 PM

I was going to say, just start over & take everything apart down to the being able to see the crank sprocket. The hardest thing to get off will be the crankshaft bolt....

From reading your post, you must have backed the tensioner off the spring somehow. Might be able to find one at a parts house, if not, local honda dealer. Edit- (here is a little pic to look at, sort of blurry)

There is a 3 tooth rule, but I never go by it. If you make sure your lined up on the crank & cam sprocket after your tension is tight, your good to go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ddude2uc/A20A1timingbeltinstalled.jpg

2oodoor

12-01-2006, 02:01 PM

I was going to say, just start over & take everything apart down to the being able to see the crank sprocket. The hardest thing to get off will be the crankshaft bolt.... A good thing to look at is the idler pulley, take it off & spin it. If you hear the bearing being dry, replace it.
From reading your post, you must have backed the tensioner off the spring somehow. Might be able to find one at a parts house, if not, local honda dealer. Edit- (here is a little pic to look at, sort of blurry)
There is a 3 tooth rule, but I never go by it. If you make sure your lined up on the crank & cam sprocket after your tension is tight, your good to go.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ddude2uc/A20A1timingbeltinstalled.jpg
great idea using the picture, yes I agree somewhat with the three tooth thing, it seems to just cause problems for me,too.... technique and procedure directions can throw people off in these books sometimes. OH and I got my crank bolt off my car using a cordless impact driver, battery operated , not too strong as to break off the bolt, but strong enough to give it some hammering and get it loose. I used the one made by goodyear, it came from pep boys for only 90 bucks. I had to use impact extension and socket purchased seperately.

Oldblueaccord

12-01-2006, 05:39 PM

88Accord-DX

12-01-2006, 06:13 PM

Did have a thought on this here at work. If the compression test comes out good like his does then is it safe to assume the timing belt is correct meaning cam is in the correct position and further more the valves are OK as well.
Chime in any one. Might save some people time later on since this comes up alot.
wp
From my experience working on import 'interferance timing belt engines', compression will be good up till about 3 teeth off timing. (depending on which style motor it is)
I've actually seen a Volkswagen motor run like shit like somewhere around 4-5 teeth off.

Edit- Valves tend to get the bad end of the deal past that.

2oodoor

12-02-2006, 05:35 AM

Did have a thought on this here at work. If the compression test comes out good like his does then is it safe to assume the timing belt is correct meaning cam is in the correct position and further more the valves are OK as well.
Chime in any one. Might save some people time later on since this comes up alot.
wp
VERY GOOD POINT OLDBLUEACCORD, I caught that early on in the thread, but he also says it ran, but bad. Im with ddude he is right.
Compression would not be so good with head gasket or valves not seating well cause it was run for a while out of time. If the belt is broke then NO compression.

gsus

12-02-2006, 09:45 AM

wow, thanks for all of the input guys :). I was going to do and finish the job yesterday, but i got stumped trying to remove the crank pulley bolt since i was by myself. I put the car in reverse and tried using a fairly long pole to hold down the brake pedal while I tried to unbolt it... but the pole was not giving the pedal enough pressure to keep the wheel from spinning. Hopefully with my friend helping me out today, I'll be able to get it off and get the car running (stronger) again.
Umm, So you guys think the compression will be different? I still have my compression gauge, it can't hurt to check it again once the car is running. I'm now 99.99% I'm using the correct timing marks now, I just need to tension it. oh and I was wondering, I couldn't find it in the FSM, what the lowest and highest 'good' compression could be?

88Accord-DX

12-02-2006, 07:12 PM

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

gsus

12-03-2006, 07:24 PM

Well last night i had to go out and purchase a propane heater for the garage, cuz it was cold as heck. But thanks to that heater i managed to get the accord back up and running.
The crank pulley was a major PITA, i had to place the extension coming from the crank pulley bolt on jack stands so that the extension wouldn't be all over the place while i was trying to loosen it. On top of that I had to use an extension on the breaker bar to get the bolt loose! Oh yeah, putting it in 3rd gear helped out better than putting it in either first or reverse. Anyhow, i just wanted to point out that that was scary!
.
Once I put everything back together, I thought I had done everything correctly, but it appears that I'm a tooth or two off. I'm sure I used the correct timing mark this time, but I have the dizzy turned all the way clockwise (advanced?) and all I could see with the allowable movement of the dizzy was the TDC mark and the first timing mark above the 15*BTDC mark. I could not see the 15*BTDC or the mark after it. But by far the engine is running a lot stronger now than it was before. Now I just need to get it to the correct tooth so that it can run perfect! Now as simple as this may be, I cant seem to figure out which way do I need to turn the cam to get the timing dead on?
Here is my revised FW timing marks. That other mark could be wrong or may not even exist, but i wasn't looking for that mark anymore... so i just left it in the picture cuz i was too lazy to erase it.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8822/fwfixedfo1.png
I used the pink mark (per the picture) for my TDC mark, cuz it had a ‘T’ on it.
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While I was under the hood I also replaced the Alt/WP belt, the PS belt, swapped out the Bosch +2 plugs for some $2 NGK plug and lastly I got new wires because one of the crimps came off of the old wires.
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But now I have any additional problem! Yeah, they just seem to be coming one after another, as usual. I don’t want to start a new thread so here goes… My battery doesn’t seem to be holding its charge. And I’m pretty sure that I know why. The radiator fan was running, even though the car had not been turned on for days. What could be causing it to stay on?
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Oh and one last thing that I was sort of questioning from the Timing belt how-to steps 10, 11, 12.

10) Remove the alternator and bracket.
11) Unbolt the power steering pump without disconnecting the hoses and set it aside.
12) On air conditioned vehicles, detach the wiring and unbolt the air conditioning compressor, again setting it aside without disconnecting the refrigerant hoses. (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=985 )
I can understand #10 if you are doing changing the water pump (which should be done with the t-belt in most cases). But I was able to gain access to the t-belt without removing any of those components? Is there a purpose for those being removed? Not that it matters, I was just curios.
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In case this is to long a read, I really just have 2 questions on here to help me get that car running right again, I’ve put them in bold :).
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Thanks again guys!

gsus

12-03-2006, 07:28 PM

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

so would the difference between each cylinder change if the were all pretty close when I originally did the compression test? I did not redo the compression test, because i want to do it once the timing is dead on and the car is running without any form of hesitation.

Oldblueaccord

12-03-2006, 08:01 PM

Well since it feels better then it must have been the timing belt all along or some kinda timing issue sounds like the motor itself is ok.

As far as removing all the accesories to do a timing belt I don't. That sounds like the dealership way $$$$$ to do something.

As far as which way to move the cam based off the timing I dunno. If the car fells like it low power on the low rpm the cam need to be advanced.

wp

88Accord-DX

12-04-2006, 05:09 PM

gsus

12-04-2006, 09:45 PM

That LXi model has fan control module under the seat. Here is a link that can help you out better with that timing belt, since your having a hard time.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0c/f7/06/0900823d800cf706.jsp

thanks for the link, although now it's just a matter of me getting the belt on the right cam tooth. I'm getting close :D. LOL, I'll get to it this weekend. Hopefully i'll get it right this time around, without me letting the tensioner come off it's little prong.

88Accord-DX

12-04-2006, 09:53 PM

There is base timing & vacuum timing.

Base timing is set with the vacuum lines plugged on the distributor.

The vacuum timing is when you will see 15 degrees BTDC on the flexplate/flywheel.

Edit- I'll say that the crankshaft keyway is going to be at 12 oclock,(varify that on the flywheel,flexplate TDC mark) & the cam sprocket lines will be parallel with the head.

gsus

12-04-2006, 10:23 PM

yeah I did that, but I must of lined up the came when there was still no tension on the belt.. so when i tensioned the belt, it unaligned the timing?

I checked the timing with the vacuum lines on and off. when I had them on the timing was dead on at the red 15*BTDC, but once i pulled off the vacuum lines.. the timing was dead on to the "T" TDC mark.

I'll have to recheck my belt alignment this weekend.

88Accord-DX

12-04-2006, 10:29 PM

Sounds like your close enough, but yeah, make sure you happy with the results & everything is copisthetic with timing marks.

Edit- with that compression test. After you get everything right, then if you want, check the compression again. Like I said, if the readings vary more than 15-20 psi, that is a problem.

Oldblueaccord

12-05-2006, 02:42 PM

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

FSM p.3-2 178 psi 135 min FI cars.

I looked up the timing in my Chiltons 8255 book real quick. It the big thick green book p. 2-20. It should be white mark at idle with vacuum hoses disconnected and red mark with the vacuum lines connected.

So I would bump it up to the white mark at idle if you can red mark would be 15 degrees BTDC (before TDC) and see how she runs.

I still havent found anything on the second mark 180 off from TDC.

wp

Tecknixia

12-05-2006, 11:56 PM

That LXi model has fan control module under the seat. Here is a link that can help you out better with that timing belt, since your having a hard time.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0c/f7/06/0900823d800cf706.jsp

Apart from the control module, I think there's a fan relay somewhere... (speaking of relays, I probably need this relay also, lol)

gsus

12-19-2006, 08:31 PM

*gotta realign belt due to my mistake*. But now i have a problem... again! I can't tension the belt (once again). I can get it to tension slightly, but not tensioned enough. The belt can still flex with the push of a finger :(. I tried loosening the tensioner as much as possible, putting the car in gear & turning the crank till the cam goes three teeth, I also tried turning the crank 2 full rotations (like in the toyota's)... but no such luck. I then tried the same thing but with the tensioner bolt not so loose, and i get the belt to tension a bit more than it was that my 2 previous attempts. What am I doing wrong?

One thing i do notice is that the belt is fairly tension in one rotation, and on the next the belt is loose once again. WTF?

****
crap on a stick! i just realized i set the timing to the wrong mark right now... i set the cam timing to the red 15*BTDC mark :(. Guess it's a good thing it has not tensioned yet... I guess I'll redo the belt alignment tomorrow, hopefully i'll get the belt to tension properly once i get the timing right

gsus

12-21-2006, 10:01 PM

well i finally got the timing 'correct' @ 15*BTDC, car runs smoother through the RPM's, but there is still some hesitation (sometimes) when i give it WOT, or when I shift from first to second with a good amount of throttle input. I still can't get the tires to chirp in second gear like my old car.. but atleast for now the power band is 'smoother'. I guess I just need to play with the dizzy (tune?) a bit to get the car to respond a bit better. I also figured out how to do the tensioner thanks to my old mechanics teacher... who owns an 87 LX sedan with a B20 turbo :).

anyhow, just thought i'd update.