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lostforawhile
12-05-2006, 07:45 PM
well since I won the auction and the money has been sent :deal: :naughty:http://i16.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/78/59/50a7_1.JPG


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110056456730&fromMakeTrack=true

Cheeseburger
12-05-2006, 07:46 PM
wow sweet! and its from los angeles! wOot

lostforawhile
12-05-2006, 07:53 PM
and these are old school carbs too!! http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/78/59/50de_1.JPG

MessyHonda
12-05-2006, 08:01 PM
is that your evil laugh....LOL congrats...cant wait to see it painted purple and on the car...lol

Cheeseburger
12-05-2006, 08:04 PM
what are u going to do with it?

MessyHonda
12-05-2006, 08:06 PM
what are u going to do with it?

:slap:...he is going to look at it...and hang it on his wall

lostforawhile
12-05-2006, 08:11 PM
what are u going to do with it?DOH!! my secret plan has been revealed,of course those dashpots will be purple. I'm going to combine most of that manifold with part of a factory manifold so it bolts up to the car. i already have a gasket set that fits that manifold and it's going to be a good match. this is going to be a long term project so the car will be down for a couple of months. fuel pump,everything has to be changed over. manual choke etc. it's gonna be a beast with those big Su's on there. I'm going to retain most of my fabricated stuff including the entire air cleaner assembly. it's going to have some nice custom bent tubing to feed air to those su's

Cheeseburger
12-05-2006, 08:17 PM
wow sweet!

Deadhead
12-05-2006, 09:54 PM
GL with the project.

IMHO carbs are just too inefficient and rob power as compared to a FI setup.

Sooo... are these just bigger carbs? i'm confused as to why these are better than the stock one....

1ajs
12-05-2006, 11:38 PM
DUAL SU's nice my volvo has dual SU hif6 carbs.

Deadhead have look at this > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU_carburetor

lostforawhile
12-06-2006, 02:25 PM
GL with the project.

IMHO carbs are just too inefficient and rob power as compared to a FI setup.

Sooo... are these just bigger carbs? i'm confused as to why these are better than the stock one....the stock carb sucks,it's also almost impossible to repair once the system starts going out of whack. dual carbs on a four cyl engine are always better then a single carb. you have almost identical length runners to the cylnders vs the compromise of a single centrally located carb. they are also much eaisier to tune. two dcoe carbs are nice,but are a little over the top for the street. I like the Su carbs because they meter fuel in proportion to airflow,almost like an engine management system. a particular size SU carb will operate the same with a number of different size engines. I have the chart here somewhere and the datsun 510 engine these came off of uses the same carb size as a two litre engine. the sss 510 is also a highh performance engine and the carb was tuned for that anyway.

2oodoor
12-06-2006, 02:40 PM
Great find!
I understand the long term project thing, you know you are gonna have to at least mount them up just to see what they are going to look like. How close is the flange from the Datsun on the manifolds?

lostforawhile
12-06-2006, 06:33 PM
Great find!
I understand the long term project thing, you know you are gonna have to at least mount them up just to see what they are going to look like. How close is the flange from the Datsun on the manifolds?it's pretty close,I already bought a gasket from an L16 manifold,I have a stock manifold that I cut off just before the one into two divider,I have to machine it to 15 degrees to compensate for the forward tilt of the engine. I'm probably going to cut off the flanges on the datsun manifold and tig the two together into one manifold. I've already been doing my homework on this swap. I'm waiting on a scrap cyl head from the engine rebuilding place,and I have to find a carb valve cover. I'm going to mock up everything on my bench first. I'm keeping my air cleaner assembly i built,right down to the part that attaches to the carb. I have to move the fuel regulator and some other things too. I'm going to build some additional braces on to my valve cover to support the aircleaner without it being attached to the carb. my plan is to build an air box where the old carb was attached to the bottom of my air cleaner,then an air plenum that feeds air to each carb. I'm going to make the air plenum out of wood first,fit everything together,then fiberglass over it. then you cut the fiberglass in two,split it off the mold halves and put it back together with more glass up to the thickness you want. the end result is a fiberglass custom air plenum. theres a number of things I'm working on,like the piece that ties the ends of the coolant bypass hose together, it holds the temp sender,and the vaccume switch that retards the timing when you start the car. you want to keep that,it makes the car start eaisier. I'm still trying to figure out the charcol canister, you need that also since these cars don't have a vented gas cap. the vapors from the tank have to go somewhere. it's a lot of little pieces,I'm going to do most of the manifold fitting and aircleaner stuff,before i ever take one part off my car,then I know it will bolt right up.

1ajs
12-06-2006, 09:52 PM
good luck lostforawhile :rockon:

lostforawhile
12-22-2006, 02:16 PM
ok the manifold adaptor is almost done, I machined off the piece of manifold,now if the stupid carbs would get here I would be happy,they told him they probably wouldn't get here until after christmas. so I'm waiting,I did get my choke cable assembly. the stock manifold is a little short for the manifold I'm getting with the carbs,so i machined a piece of aluminum plate that will tig on to it. then I can do some grinding to match the ports. that way the new manifold will bolt up to this one. lots to do,I have to remount the entire air cleaner assembly,move the fuel regulator etc. throttle cable brackets,choke cable,fuel lines,vaccume lines. lots of stuff to make. I will post pics shortly.

lostforawhile
12-22-2006, 03:05 PM
ok as promised.
the gasket that fits the L16 motor,i won't need the bottom part of it for the exaust. the manifold and carbs I'm getting bolt right up to an L16,L18,or L20.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifold3.jpg
the manifold machined off,it's now at a 15 fifteen degree angle,then the carbs will sit level on the engine.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifold2.jpg
the aluminum plate that will tig to the factory manifold piece,I haven't drilled out the ports yet.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifold1.jpg

1ajs
12-22-2006, 05:13 PM
sweet lost keep it coming :rockon:

MessyHonda
12-22-2006, 09:49 PM
woot....nice progress...you have to post a vid after you install it on your car.

carotman
12-24-2006, 07:03 AM
This should go in Carb tech :D

You will have to make a block plate between cylindre 1/2 and 3/4 in order to maintain proper airflow I think. The Datsun carb is made that way

lostforawhile
12-24-2006, 08:11 AM
This should go in Carb tech :D
You will have to make a block plate between cylindre 1/2 and 3/4 in order to maintain proper airflow I think. The Datsun carb is made that waythese are actual Su carbs,there are two runners per carb,the manifold is a japan SSS manifold, I made the plate so i could bolt this manifold to the part of the other one like an adaptor. I think these used to be hitachi clones of the SU carbs,then somebody put SU carbs on it later. same bolt pattern. they should be here after the holiday. it took a while for the money to get to him and he said he was told they would have taken about six days to get here without the holiday. so that puts them here just after the holidays. you can see in the picture how they have seperate runners for each carb. this manifold also has the balancer tube. this makes it much eaisier to hook up the important vaccume stuff. http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/78/59/50de_1.JPG

carotman
12-24-2006, 09:34 AM
Yeah I saw the separate runners on the SU carbs. I was refering to the stock machined manifold. Both runners are still connected together

lostforawhile
12-28-2006, 06:44 PM
AUGGGGGHHHH!!!! this idiot sold me the hitichi SU clones. I even emailed him to clarify these were real SU carbs. he swore they were. they look just like SUs but none of the parts are interchangable except for the jet and needle. they have a big Hitachi emblem stamped on each fuel bowl,so eithier he tried to rip me off,or he's an idiot. I'm going to make the best of it,these came on datsun 510's and early z cars,so I'm sure there is aftermarket support for them. I just need a service manual on Hitichi carbs. they also have two different fuel bowl tops,one has a clamp on hose and one has a screw in fitting. I need to search for the carb float bowl top now. I really want to stay with all screw in fittings,especially after the fire. I already figured out the throttle cable linkage,these have a cable that pulls in a different direction,actually a linkage,but I took the throttle shaft out of a dead carb,turned the cable connector around backwards on the shaft,and after I make a spacer,the factory throttle cable will be able to pull in the right direction. in other words instead of pulling from the top,it'll pull from the bottom. I'll just cut the end off that the cable bolts to. and weld a bracket to the rest of it. talking about the piece our cable attaches to. the choke is gonna be a big challenge. it has dual chokes. i need to find a way to link the chokes together, and connect them to the choke cable assembly I got. these types of carbs,talking about SUs and clones,don't use a choke plate, they just use an assembly that moves the jet farthur away from the needle to richen the mixture.

3rdgenhatchDX
12-28-2006, 06:49 PM
Sux you got hitachi clones, but i can't wait to see what the end result is :) i always wanted SU carbs after seeing that one guys thread...

1ajs
12-29-2006, 03:04 PM
same bolt patern? why not just make them for for now and later use them as the spares and get the proper ones? but fuck thats stupid hope you used pay pal cause they will reinbers you for this dudes fuck up...

lostforawhile
12-29-2006, 05:55 PM
same bolt patern? why not just make them for for now and later use them as the spares and get the proper ones? but fuck thats stupid hope you used pay pal cause they will reinbers you for this dudes fuck up...
going to use them anyway,they are the japanese copy of the SU. these are the same carbs used on a bunch of datsuns,including the 260z. these are 38 mm bore carbs by the way,thats kind of deceptive because these style of carbs flow about 25 percent more air then a standard fixed venturi carb. this is due to the fact they have no choke horn or plate,and there isn't a bunch of crap sticking into the airstream like a standard carb. when the vennturi is wide open, there is nothing in the airstream but the edge of the throttle plates,and the fuel metering needle. it looks like an open tube,nothing but fuel and air. they don't have a choke plate,because they move the fuel metering jet away from the needle to enrich the mixture for starting. nice and simple,and nothing to block air flow. ok,some progress on the carbs.
I got the linkage for the throttle working,it was made entirely from pieces from one of my dead carbs.
the original carb pull off of the dead carb,in this original configuration it would have turned the linkage shaft backwards.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/ad9b1dae.jpg
simple solution so easy an idiot could have thought of it.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/ed1c0c26.jpg
figure it out?
hint-it's upside down
the original throttle shaft,I cut it off just before the screw holes.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/ed1c0c26-1.jpg
the original mechanical linkage to the pedal off of the original car,i cut the round part off that goes to the shaft. you can see it's bent. after reaming it out,the throttle shaft from the accord carb slides into it,then the hole gets drilled through the accord shaft,and a bolt holds them together. I had to do a lot of grinding on the piece that holds the cable. lots of extra tabs and crap on it had to go.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/ed1c0c26-2.jpg
throttle shaft pulled
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/d6cc0cc0.jpg
not pulled
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/d6cc0cc0-1.jpg
i Have to make the bracket to hold the throttle cable yet,the two bolts at the top of the manifold will hold the bracket
the entire assembly,it looks strangly factory,notice I wanted long runners,better for torque
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/d6cc0cc0-2.jpg
the bottom half of the cross over is actually a water passage,this allows me to run a heated manifold,and I can install the two vaccume sensors and the temp sensor on the bottom side of it,one of the bosses is already there,and I have to tig weld on two more.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/d6cc0cc0-3.jpg

2oodoor
12-30-2006, 05:07 PM
dang, sorry you had that trouble, at least you are not totaly out your moola.
I took that part off my kelkien carb too and put it on the weber, it took some dremel work and a steel pop rivet to keep it indexed.
An idea for hardware that may help you is golf cart supply, cable barrels that you can adjust the position, and make your own cable to work with that piece as well. Ezgo two stroke carts used cable setups similar to these 3rd gens.

1ajs
12-30-2006, 05:27 PM
wow nice lost :)

so how you going to do the air box? somthing like what my volvo has
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/210.jpg

or the other kind they got for them...

lostforawhile
12-30-2006, 05:43 PM
wow nice lost :)

so how you going to do the air box? somthing like what my volvo has
http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/210.jpg

or the other kind they got for them...I'm going to build something that will allow me to connect two inch silicone hoses to them,thats the same aircraft hose as whats on my hot air intake tube. those will pull air from my existing air cleaner I built,this will prevent me from having to move the air cleaner,the breather hose,and a bunch of other stuff. I'm looking at mandrel bent exaust bends in stailnless right now for the bend. it's kind of hard to explain, i have it all figured out in my head, it will look cool though.

1ajs
12-30-2006, 05:50 PM
I'm going to build something that will allow me to connect two inch silicone hoses to them,thats the same aircraft hose as whats on my hot air intake tube. those will pull air from my existing air cleaner I built,this will prevent me from having to move the air cleaner,the breather hose,and a bunch of other stuff. I'm looking at mandrel bent exaust bends in stailnless right now for the bend. it's kind of hard to explain, i have it all figured out in my head, it will look cool though.

sweet can't wait to see what ya got planed

lostforawhile
12-30-2006, 05:57 PM
dang, sorry you had that trouble, at least you are not totaly out your moola.
I took that part off my kelkien carb too and put it on the weber, it took some dremel work and a steel pop rivet to keep it indexed.
An idea for hardware that may help you is golf cart supply, cable barrels that you can adjust the position, and make your own cable to work with that piece as well. Ezgo two stroke carts used cable setups similar to these 3rd gens.
I'm using the factory cable,I'll just cut off the factory cable bracket on this carb. thats a factory throttle connector for the cable and part of the factory throttle shaft. I just fit it into the existing throttle linkage on the carbs. works perfectly. I had to trim the piece off the carb down a lot, but everything works,it just pulls from underneath instead of from above. i'll mount the bracket right there like factory so it bolts to the upper two manifold bolts

lostforawhile
12-31-2006, 07:30 AM
it looks like the carbs are the right size,but the needle and jet in these is from the smaller engine. I found a really good source of parts for the datsuns that came with these carbs factory,so all I have to do is order the needle and jets that came from the 2000 cc datsun roadster and i'm set. almost perfect tune out of the box,these carbs only have a single jet and the metering needle,nice and simple. the carbs adjust themselves according to airflow into the engine. the other option I have later is also to order a set of these used that had the 45mm bore and they will bolt up to my manifold,same linkages etc. going to try the 38s first. dual 38 mm bores in sync. with the amount of air these carbs will flow,ought to be pretty good.

1ajs
12-31-2006, 02:09 PM
sounds sweet

know anything about the hif6 carbs?

lostforawhile
12-31-2006, 04:17 PM
sounds sweet

know anything about the hif6 carbs?not sure off the top of my head,have you located a service manual yet?it should work on the same principal as the SU type carbs.

lostforawhile
01-02-2007, 10:38 PM
ok a couple of quick pictures,didn't have much time,we had a refridgerator fire and it's been hetic. at least we have a house even minus a refrigator. anyway,got the carbs off the manifold, got all the threaded holes on the manifold chased,strange that on a haitachi manifold,all the threads are npt. same as on the factory one,except for the temp sender. thats bsp. but I haves the specials tap. hahaha. got the hole threaded in the manifold water jacket for the temp sender,tomorrow I have to make a bung for 3/8 npt to tig on to the water jacket for the second vaccume sensor. tapped the vaccume side for two 1/8 npt holes for the dis. also have to tig on an aeroquip fitting where one of the freeze plugs is,then I'll have the water outlet. the original one had water passages in the head. the manifold even has provisions in the center for the pcv valve. just need one thats threaded 1/4 npt. the original one was shot.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifoldjan3.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifoldjan31.jpg

lostforawhile
01-04-2007, 10:25 PM
ok some more pictures,this will be the manifold water outlet,it replaces one of the freeze plugs,once it's tigged in place I'll thread it.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/wateroutlet.jpg?t=1167977277
bottom of the manifold,this is the water passage side of the crossover. this is where the two vaccume sensors will go,also the water temp sender. just like factory. all this will be pretty hidden making it look cleaner.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/manifoldbottom.jpg?t=1167977467
thiswill be the new vaccume port,it has to be tigged also
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fittingforvaccume.jpg?t=1167977614
I added a vaccume port on the right side to match the left,I'm going to put a liquid filled vaccume gauge right in front of each carb.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/bothgaugefittings.jpg?t=1167977731
new port on right side
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fittingforgauge.jpg?t=1167977902
thats about it for now,those two pieces tiggged in place tomorrow,then that piece is pretty much done. already cleaned up a lot of the casting lines and working on making this part look really nice.

lostforawhile
01-04-2007, 10:29 PM
hey can somebody please move this to R and D ? why I put it in off topic I'll never know.

MessyHonda
01-04-2007, 10:40 PM
hey can somebody please move this to R and D ? why I put it in off topic I'll never know.

start a new thread so its more useful to the person that reads it next time

Cheeseburger
01-04-2007, 10:42 PM
just pm a mod or admi

lostforawhile
01-06-2007, 08:05 AM
some more progress on the carb project,I also posted these in pictures
milling the adaptor plate
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/3.jpg
i'm going to be modifying the original cable bracket to work on here
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/4.jpg
the vaccume fittings for the dis controls
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/5.jpg
plate bolted to the manifold[i]
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/7.jpg
[i]showing the water outlet I made and the pcv valve location
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/8.jpg
linkage
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/9.jpg
the entire assembly,I have to drill the holes for the ports yet,and I need to take it over to the school and have the plate welded on,we don't have a torch big enough to do that plate,they have a water cooled torch over there
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/10.jpg

Cheeseburger
01-06-2007, 08:34 AM
:thumbup: :thumbup: u the man tim:thumbup: :thumbup:

1ajs
01-06-2007, 03:17 PM
not sure off the top of my head,have you located a service manual yet?it should work on the same principal as the SU type carbs.
its a SU HIF6 i just left the su out lol

------------

nice progress lost

lostforawhile
01-08-2007, 08:55 PM
ok more progress,the adaptor plate is done,the ports line up perfectly,now the entire project is on hold until I can get the plate welded to the manifold piece. not sure when yet,i guess I'll work on the choke mechanism until then.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/1-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/2-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/3-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/4-1.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/5-1.jpg

lostforawhile
01-10-2007, 07:18 PM
for those on here wth sidedraft dual carbs,what were your solutions for hooking up the choke? I ended up building an aluminum slider block,this will enable me to hook up dual choke cables to a single cable going into the car. I bought a mazda choke cable/switch assembly off of ebay. this also allows me to have the choke warning light hooked up. I built the frame from a solid block of billet so the pins would line up square,I used oillite bearings to slide on the pins,and the pins are stainless steel. when I get the entire carb assembly in,I'll probably coat the moving parts of it with lucas red grease,or something like it. this will mount on the top of the adaptor plate right above the manifold. I'm still looking for a couple of control cables with threaded ends,these will have to be cut down short to go to the carbs. I'm thinking of going to the junk yard and pulling a couple of matching throttle cables,maby from a nissan or something. when I get them,the end of the frame will be threaded for the two cables,then they will be pulled by the center bar.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/1-2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/2-2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/3-2.jpg

lostforawhile
01-10-2007, 07:27 PM
this is a duplicate of a post from performance,since this is also part of the carb project,I posted it here
for those on here wth sidedraft dual carbs,what were your solutions for hooking up the choke? I ended up building an aluminum slider block,this will enable me to hook up dual choke cables to a single cable going into the car. I bought a mazda choke cable/switch assembly off of ebay. this also allows me to have the choke warning light hooked up. I built the frame from a solid block of billet so the pins would line up square,I used oillite bearings to slide on the pins,and the pins are stainless steel. when I get the entire carb assembly in,I'll probably coat the moving parts of it with lucas red grease,or something like it. this will mount on the top of the adaptor plate right above the manifold. I'm still looking for a couple of control cables with threaded ends,these will have to be cut down short to go to the carbs. I'm thinking of going to the junk yard and pulling a couple of matching throttle cables,maby from a nissan or something. when I get them,the end of the frame will be threaded for the two cables,then they will be pulled by the center bar.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/1-2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/2-2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/3-2.jpg

MessyHonda
01-10-2007, 07:47 PM
nice choke button looks retro

lostforawhile
01-12-2007, 07:16 PM
:) ok more progress,the chokes work!!!yay! finally. I ended up buying a universal choke cable and cutting it up to go from the slider to the carbs. the openings for the factory choke cables were too big,so I made aluminum sleeves to go in them,then a set screw for each cable
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/4-2.jpg
I ended up just counterboring the back of the slider bracket,then installing set screws to hold the cables in place.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/3-3.jpg
my vaccume gauges came in today, stainless steel. I got liquid filled gauges because I figured the needles would vibrate all over the place on top of the manifold
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/2-3.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/1-3.jpg

1ajs
01-12-2007, 07:51 PM
SWWWEEETT your keeping it old school!

Ichiban
01-12-2007, 10:55 PM
I'm assuming you can not run both chokes from a common shaft?

MessyHonda
01-12-2007, 11:01 PM
man Tim they look freaken sweet....you have to post a video of how it sounds once you get it up and running

lostforawhile
01-13-2007, 05:00 AM
na,these types of carbs don't have conventional choke plates,they have a mechanism that moves the jet away from the metering needle to enrich the mixture,it does the same thing as a choke plate blocking the throttle bore,but without the airflow restriction of a plate always being in the way. I got it figured out,I was just curious as to how some other people on here had come up with solutions on their webber sidedrafts and so on. heres a picture of the cables hooked up. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/4-2.jpg
the rod in the middle with the two springs is the throttle linkage by the way.

shepherd79
01-13-2007, 07:46 AM
WEBER has electric choke. i am not sure how it works.
most people when they upgrade to high performance carbs don't need choke.
I never needed, i let my car idle for about 3-4 minutes with me holding the pedal and it would idle great on it is own after that.

2oodoor
01-13-2007, 08:04 AM
yea you may not need a choke too much in moultrie ga.. lol
what kind of air filter intake are you going to use? I have seen boxed in intake boxes that you could fix up an air block on it to pull the gas up when its cold.

lostforawhile
01-13-2007, 10:47 AM
yea you may not need a choke too much in moultrie ga.. lol
what kind of air filter intake are you going to use? I have seen boxed in intake boxes that you could fix up an air block on it to pull the gas up when its cold.it gets pretty cold here sometimes,a couple of years ago I had to have my car towed home because the fuel line froze up in the middle of the night. I'm working on the air filter now,I'm waiting on some stuff from ebay so I can get busy on it. I'm keeping my existing air cleaner assembly thats on there,also the intake pipe,that way I already have a carb heat system. I just need to get air from it to the carbs. also look nice in the process.

lostforawhile
01-13-2007, 07:43 PM
well I have an idea,I thought of getting one of the aluminum air pipes from a cold air system and making my aluminum pieces that bolt to the carbs,then tig welding them on to the pipe. I found a nice looking round air cleaner cover off of an italian moped on ebay,it's got tthe cast in fins,I was going to use it to cap off the end of the tube since the carbs would be attached along it's length. then the upturned end could be used to duct in air from my air cleaner. thats the only way I could find to get nice looking mandrel bent tube. I've seen cold air kits go for as little as ten bucks on rbay,it doesn't matter about the filter or anything like that,I just need the tube with the upturned end.

88Accord-DX
01-13-2007, 10:37 PM
Cool, looks like almost ready to see how it runs. Must be nice to get rid of the birdnest of vacuum lines under the hood.

lostforawhile
01-13-2007, 11:51 PM
Cool, looks like almost ready to see how it runs. Must be nice to get rid of the birdnest of vacuum lines under the hood.got a long way to go before it's ready to even go on the car. just one step at a time. one of the fuel bowl tops was changed at some point in time to some wierd thread, I took it off,I'll mill it down on monday and insert a piece of aluminum with 1/8 npt threads,then I'll get our master aircraft tank welder to weld that piece in. that way it's 1/8 npt fittings on both sides,then I can put my matching braided AN lines to the center fuel rail. the original fuel bowls swivel on the carbs so that the carbs could go at extreme angles. I'm going to find a way to fix them in place ,since I alrady cut the manifold adaptor to take the angle of the engine in consideration.

lostforawhile
01-14-2007, 12:13 AM
this brings up an interesting point,since the fuel bowls ae external,the angle of the carb iteslf can be changed depending on the engine,the carb can be at a 45 degree angle and the fuel bowl on the side can still be level. the fuel comes out the bottom of the bowl through a tube called a pippette then goes up to the inlet on the bottom of the carb. each carb has a loop of line going from each fuel bowl to the carb. I believe these may have been the source of hot start problems,if the car sits soaking up engine heat,the fuel in the loops could eaisily vaporize.I'm also going to insulate those two lines to help eliminate that problem. these were a fire hazzard problem also,I believe this was mostly from people using the wrong kind of fuel line there,and using the wrong kind of clamps. I'm going to make those lines a regular inspection point. also with modern materials in fuel line, this probobaly won't be an issue. fuel lines in the 70's didn't last nearly as long as modern lines,with modern materials. when's the last time you heard of a modern fuel line going bad? if I could make those loops braided I would,but It's not going to be possible there.the inlet lines and the vent lines will be braided though. if you look at this volvo,you can see what I mean with the carb angle. http://www.pointdouglas.com/plugins/p17_image_gallery/images/210.jpg
I still would have had to machine the angle in though,because the carbs would have stuck up to high,coming straight off the manifold.

lostforawhile
01-14-2007, 01:32 PM
I found a lot of great help today and info on this project, I joined classic Z cars.com,they deal with this particular carb all the time. they gave some great referals too. still lots to do.

1ajs
01-15-2007, 06:04 AM
:rockon:

i got brand new fuel lines on it cause they blew up on me this past summer lol
even had a little fire :P good thing i had the hose right beside me

speedpenguin
01-15-2007, 07:38 AM
Dude! This is awesome! Finally your Accord is going to get some more power.

Cheeseburger
01-15-2007, 08:27 AM
tim the tool man taylor would be happy.... "arh ahr ahr!"

lostforawhile
01-15-2007, 07:59 PM
:rockon:
i got brand new fuel lines on it cause they blew up on me this past summer lol
even had a little fire :P good thing i had the hose right beside meI got some new fuel lines today too,look at the pictures,I figured out what exactly I had today,these are the carbs off of the 1600cc datsun 510 sss. I talked to the guy at Z therapy and he said they run 2.2 litres all the time with these carbs and they are plenty of carb for even that size engine. It's going to be a while before they go in,got to send the carb bodies off to them and have their roller bearing throttle shafts put in. they invented this process to stop shaft leaks and I feel it's well worth the money as a first rebuild step
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fuelline2.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fuelline1.jpg

lostforawhile
01-16-2007, 07:16 PM
more pictures coming in a few minutes,uploading now,the fuel rail is done. :Owned:

lostforawhile
01-16-2007, 07:45 PM
OK the fuel rail is done,I made it from flat bar stock aluminum and aluminum rod. I machined one end of the fuel rail down to fit in the bar and it's locked in place with a set screw. I have to do a little fine tuning on the mounting end to clear the pcv valve,but I'll do that tomorrow. made this entire thing in about twenty minutes,plus my lunch and break.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fuelrail6.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fuelrail5.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/fuelrail4.jpg

1ajs
01-17-2007, 08:04 PM
kool tim cheers

lostforawhile
01-20-2007, 04:08 PM
ok the fuel rail is mounted,I had to do a little work on one end,so it would clear the pcv valve. here it is mounted.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/today4.jpg
I had a little trouble drilling and tapping the holes for the bracket,which nesisitated creating this,a really long extension with a small drill chuck on one end. used it to both drill and tap the holes for the bracket. this also looks like a device from saw.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/today1.jpg
to help clarify on the AN fittings question,the largest one here in the picture is a -8,the middle one is a -6 and the smallest is a -4
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/today3.jpg
I'm using a -6 from the regulator to the fuel manifold,then a -4 to each carb from there. some people think thats too small,but a -4 is still a bigger diameter inside then the port inside of the fuel bowl. can't flow any more fuel then what will go through the needle valve.

lostforawhile
01-20-2007, 09:37 PM
well I'm figuring out the air boxes now,I need to find two nice spun aluminum saucepans with a diameter of just under 7 1/2 inches from outside lip to outside lip. then a standard Mr. Gasket aircleaner top plate will just fit over it. that way i can make the two airboxes that fit on the back of the carbs. the top plates from the air cleaners will bolt to the carb inlets,then the two aluminum pots will fit over a threaded rod. of course I'll remove the handles,DUH! or i could leave them to make them look funky. after they go on the air cleaner plates I have to tig on a couple of tight radius aluminum 90 degree bends. that is the air inlet into the air boxes. finally a lot of fitting tubing together to bring air from my original intake pipe I built. those aluminum cast bends are EXPENSIVE$$$ though. thats forced induction stuff. [img]

88Accord-DX
01-20-2007, 09:43 PM
Sure you can get a few saucepans at the local thrift store. Guess this will be the first attempt at homemade ITBs.

lostforawhile
01-20-2007, 09:49 PM
Sure you can get a few saucepans at the local thrift store. Guess this will be the first attempt at homemade ITBs.ITBS?
I wish I had a picture of an original mg air cleaner,that used SUs also. it looks just like a saucepan with a tube sticking out the side of it. I'm using the same general idea,but I want to make them look nicer and still pull air from my scoop. heres a link to one of those elbows

http://www.xs-engineering.com/xsstore/pc/catalog/alum_elbow_426_detail.jpg
it's a two inch outside elbow with a tight 90 degree bend.

88Accord-DX
01-20-2007, 09:55 PM
What you doing looks like individual throttle bodies to me.

lostforawhile
01-20-2007, 10:08 PM
na dual sidedraft SU type carbs is all. I found a ton of help for tuning these once they get on the car from Z therapy. they know everything about these carbs. they came from the 1.6 litre datsun 510 sss,thats where this set came from, the guy I was talking to at Z therapy said they run 2.2 litre race motors off this same setup. thats what I like about SUs,they will run two different sized engines perfectly,with almost no tuning required. that same needle and jet will run anything from a 1200 to a 2200 cc motor. heres a picture of the original MG aircleaner,if this works http://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/mg/images/0114.jpg

lostforawhile
01-20-2007, 10:22 PM
as you can see from the pictures it looks like a sauce pan on the side of the carb. knowing the brittish who invented the SU,it probably was. there is still debate today if the was invented by a meatpacker or a plumber. SU of course stands for Skinners Union. it does look like a throttle body though now that i think about it. I put the two big vaccume gauges on there mostly for looks,but they are functional too.

A20A1
02-14-2007, 12:01 AM
what about an airbox, that way choke can be controlled by one flap?

2oodoor
02-14-2007, 04:54 AM
what about an airbox, that way choke can be controlled by one flap?
That is what I was trying to describe. All of that hardware your making looks like extra weight and air sealing issues. You are making an airbox to serve all four carbs, so may as well incorporate the suffocating device into that to conserve weight etc.
I have cranked my car up without a choke quite often, temps in the 20s. It depends on the style of the carbs your using there too, if it is enough in the accel pump when the car sits overnite, to squirt in then draw from the bowl. You have to sit with the car to warm it up. That is par for the course anyway with carbed Hondas, if you want instant drive and go back in the house type warm ups, get fuelyed :) :) :)
I know it is not good to go chokeless:banghead:<<choke vs. air lol

lostforawhile
02-14-2007, 01:34 PM
That is what I was trying to describe. All of that hardware your making looks like extra weight and air sealing issues. You are making an airbox to serve all four carbs, so may as well incorporate the suffocating device into that to conserve weight etc.
I have cranked my car up without a choke quite often, temps in the 20s. It depends on the style of the carbs your using there too, if it is enough in the accel pump when the car sits overnite, to squirt in then draw from the bowl. You have to sit with the car to warm it up. That is par for the course anyway with carbed Hondas, if you want instant drive and go back in the house type warm ups, get fuelyed :) :) :)
I know it is not good to go chokeless:banghead:<<choke vs. air lolwell I already solved this issue,let me find the urls. Su carbs don't have a traditional choke plate,they move the needle farthur away from the jet to richen the mixture. I already built the mechanical piece to connect both choke cables together and have already built the air cleaners.

lostforawhile
02-14-2007, 05:13 PM
well I already solved this issue,let me find the urls. Su carbs don't have a traditional choke plate,they move the needle farthur away from the jet to richen the mixture. I already built the mechanical piece to connect both choke cables together and have already built the air cleaners.
ok here are the URLs
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56803
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56803

lostforawhile
02-14-2007, 05:23 PM
ok here are the correct ones,my bad,the first is the carb project,the second is the breather,and the third one is the air cleaners
ok here are the URLs
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56803
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58196
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57972

lostforawhile
02-18-2007, 07:41 PM
just for an update,the air cleaners are finished,the engine breather that attaches to the manifold is finished, I'm waithing for my tax refund money right now,not only to pay some people on here,but to pay the guy to weld the manifold adaptor plate to the piece of factory manifold. I have a bunch of other money coming from the state,so when it gets here,I'll get these carbs sent off for rebuild. then it's just a lot of fitting and removing vacccume lines.
I really hope to get this running in time for a summer meet here in georgia. I know a lot of people want to see these carbs up and running. no one more then me. the factory carb is about to drive me crazy.
here is the link to the air cleaner project. http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57972
and the breather project
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58196

A20A1
02-19-2007, 09:11 PM
Can't wait to see the carb and manifold installed :)

lostforawhile
02-19-2007, 09:20 PM
Can't wait to see the carb and manifold installed :)yea I'm going to try and get those manifold pieces tacked together tomorrow,I have to clamp the entire adaptor plate to a big piece of steel after it's tacked,thats so it doesn't warp while it's being tigged,then after all the welding is done I have to get the dremel and a burr and match the two end ports up. the end ports are slightly wider on the datsun manifold just on the outer two,so I have to fill the gaps with aluminum from the torch,then match the ports from the other side. the center two ports are a perfect match.

lostforawhile
02-24-2007, 11:04 PM
ok here is what they look like right now. the manifold pieces are tacked together at the moment. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/bodywork4.jpg

speedpenguin
02-25-2007, 07:58 AM
Hell yes!

lostforawhile
05-29-2007, 08:24 PM
ok an update,the manifold piece with the adaptor plate is at my dads shop in Atlanta, my step brother is going to take it to work with him,they have big ass tig machines there,he's going to get the manifold tigged up for me then send it down here. then i can start working on it again. :)

finally got the manifold back today,still lots of work to do,but at least a major step is done. now i can get it ported and get stuff going back together. got some pics and a short video. i don't know much about this video crap on the internet,but let me know if it looks jumpy to you. it's an AVI but i've got plenty of memory with the SD card. maby it's just my computer. the video looks smooth and non jumpy on the camera itself,yet looks jumpy on the video. i downloaded directy to youtube,so i don't know. it takes hours and hours to download 40mb on this piece of crap. lol.
here is the manifold as it came out of the box from ups
http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020003-47ajeehse.jpg
these welds are beautiful,a huge thanks to Bill Wittenbrook,my stepbrother,for having these welded up for me at the company he works for
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020004-47ajeehy3.jpg
this is the original maifold wall from the factory manifold,you can see how it doesn't line up,it needs to be ground away. the weld now forms the manifold wall. the outer two are the worst,the inner two line up almost perfectly
finished manifold on one side,this was done with a sioux die grinder,and a high speed cutter,then finished with a flap wheel.
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020008-47ajeei7k.jpg

i know a pic is missing i'm working on it right now,i'll have to post it later the camera batteries are dead.

i will make a video of the manifold itself later,when the batteries are charged,the end ports ended up realy nice looking,i will post some more pics up later too. :)

thats half the manifold,the other part is what the carbs are attached to. is the video jumpy for you? or is it my computer. and if it is,what causes that? the video on the camera doesn't do that.

ok the missing pictures
here is how it looked after welding before matching the ports.
http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020005-47al760dh.jpg
and after
http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020011-47al75zwa.jpg
http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/27/s4020010-47al7602g.jpg

forrest89sei
07-27-2007, 08:04 PM
Very Sexy Intake :thumbup:
Can't wait to sell the dual carbs on it :D


thats half the manifold,the other part is what the carbs are attached to. is the video jumpy for you? or is it my computer. and if it is,what causes that? the video on the camera doesn't do that.
I can't View the video until Tomorrow When I'm on free high speed.
My Dial Up would die........

ahmad89
07-27-2007, 08:49 PM
very nice tim wish i had a shop like yours, my car would run better if i did.

mushroom_toy
07-27-2007, 10:46 PM
Its not jumpy for me. Video looks good.

knarg
07-27-2007, 11:24 PM
hahah the sound on the video is pretty funny x_x

2oodoor
07-28-2007, 01:46 AM
get to porting !!!


this is an exciting project and with all the ideas you have on it I cant wait for the final product

Hazwan
07-28-2007, 03:29 AM
Nice!

And yeah, video works great for me.

carotman
07-28-2007, 05:36 AM
Nice manifold Tim!

forrest89sei
07-28-2007, 06:23 AM
Looks Great, Video Works Great Also :D

lostforawhile
07-28-2007, 07:09 AM
i have another video but i'm trying to figure out a way to compress this video so i can upload it.

LX-incredible
07-28-2007, 09:33 AM
Cool, that looks like the grinder I have.

lostforawhile
07-28-2007, 09:36 AM
lets see if this works from google video,find some pop corn. :rockon:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=503788016712812800&hl=en

Pico
07-28-2007, 09:51 AM
Great work lost, cant wait to see the finished results.

LX-incredible
07-28-2007, 11:10 AM
Wow, I had no idea of all the work you had into this. Everything looks very professional, great work!

700

MessyHonda
07-28-2007, 12:13 PM
yeah the video is not jumpy at all but it sounds like the dentist office with that grinder.

A18A
07-28-2007, 03:30 PM
haha funny youtube username, very nice work btw :D im a fan of your progress your making :)

guaynabo89
07-28-2007, 04:19 PM
how much hp can you get out of those carbs compared to some 40 sidedrafts

lostforawhile
07-29-2007, 06:43 PM
it's hard to judge,they are 38mm bores,but they don't have all the crap sticking into the bores like a conventional carb does. they also don't have a conventional choke plate to block airflow,they enrich the mixture with the jet for choke.

Vanilla Sky
07-29-2007, 06:50 PM
Where did my post go? I basically explained exactly what Lost did.

Very nice manifold.

lostforawhile
07-31-2007, 08:03 PM
few more pictures,i'm making the vaccume rail that runs across the manifold,the main vaccume tap on this manifold is on the left side,so this runs across the runners and exists on the right side. see if you can guess what this runner is made from lol. the fittings will tig weld on to the ends of it.
http://img101.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/31/s4020009-1ihbstff.jpg
http://img105.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/31/s4020011-5g4s2xx.jpg
this is a better explantion of what the extra lines on the manifold are for,the vaccume gauges are liquid filled,and require a vent to be in the upright position,so i had to make a venting system for them to operate in this position. or the fluid would run out,thats the upright thing with the lines attached to it. not the fuel rail,but the other. the plastic lines will attach to the back of each gauge with a special fitting i made.
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/07/31/s4020010-1ihbstf8.jpg
also here is the other thread with the manifold piece tacked up and the two videos
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61333

lostforawhile
07-31-2007, 08:21 PM
is there anyway to move this entire thread to research and development? i'm still not sure why it wound up in off topic in the first place. we need a section there just for carb research,there are a number of people on the board building multiple carb setups,and it's def technical research. we need to move all those threads to one place,so it would be eaisier for someone to compare the projects.

LX-incredible
07-31-2007, 08:41 PM
That looks crazy enough to belong in an art museum. I can't believe I missed this thread.

lostforawhile
07-31-2007, 08:50 PM
you ought to see what i just saw in a hot rod magazine, barry grant is now offering clear red fuel lines. these are absolute bad ass looking. i'm sure they are made of modern materials too of course. my regulator will mount right above the runners,so i think that would look awesome running from the firewall to the regulator and up to the center of the fuel rail. I think demon carburation makes them if i read correctly. this will get looked into tomorrow. :)

Vanilla Sky
07-31-2007, 08:54 PM
Yeah, a Carb R&D would be nice, but why not just use the general R&D?

I have a DCOE setup on paper that will retain cruise control and AC, add electronic ignition, and will add water injection. So far, it looks like everything BUT fueling will be directly computer controlled.

lostforawhile
08-01-2007, 06:41 PM
lots more pictures coming tomorrow of the vaccume rail finished,working on mounting it right now.

ahmad89
08-01-2007, 07:00 PM
dont forget about my dizzy:deal:

lostforawhile
08-02-2007, 06:31 PM
ok some new pictures. this is the vaccume rail that runs across the front of the manifold.
this is in rough position of where the rail will mount
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pa16f93f4c3bd73799a8d15900e3a1f2b/e84abc68.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p06b6b1db1d718fabdb8beed931fed43b/e84abd7c.jpg
these small lines will be the vents to the gauges
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p2cb61b899770750eebc6e2d8f34a2018/e84abced.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p62cfe5830fa6b74f55c5b1670539c29b/e84abbee.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p5467ed803efd533e89e457d8d529c1fc/e84abacf.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p1084ed85e46bf4a39fd05fe9e775c9cc/e84aba88.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pb10e57e50c112458f67b4ab11da3ac5b/e84aba49.jpg
marking the location of the holes on the bracket,still in raw form
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p2088e83578e9fb025629d995ab76ecd0/e84ab9ef.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p400aa524b82fda482a4b3db482c5f16c/e84ab9be.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p1b8637d5e62abd10924849b997de413d/e84ab985.jpg

lostforawhile
08-02-2007, 06:33 PM
post 2


tools of the trade
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p76550e6805692c407d84a8f336d08eef/e84ab932.jpg
the blue is layout fluid for marking the metal
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pe054a99b6931e1aca2eafa2d3c8ccf6e/e84ab8f3.jpg
finished other then paint
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p694c53b000ba48e332410b0c845ba55d/e84ab876.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p1ed5b2eecc0e2390f1192045c501bbe0/e84ab813.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pd7306c5645569df635452c361a2142e5/e84ab7ce.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pa71c0acf019b92500f4956d89f482295/e84ab797.jpg
the standoffs are actually at an angle to the mounting bracket,i had to bolt the mounting bracket down,hold the rail in posion so it was correct,drill the holes at an angle through the side of the bracket. i then put a long stainless bolt through the rail,through the spacers,screwed in,then the back half of the spacers got tig welded,the bolts removed,and the front half welded up. after that the spacers were tapped at 5/16-18,the mounting holes on the rail enlarged, and the rail was bolted to the mounting bracket.

russiankid
08-02-2007, 06:37 PM
When that is going to the accord, people will just be like holy shit. Nice work Tim.

Hazwan
08-02-2007, 06:55 PM
Yeah nice work. Purple paint next?

lostforawhile
08-02-2007, 07:01 PM
here is a side angle picture showing the angle of the standoffs. i had this entire thing in the hardware store getting bolts and such for it,and people were like wtf is that thing. had a bit of a crowd in nuts and bolts. that is the only place for twenty miles who has stainless steel metric cap screws. i have a lot of work before it goes on the accord. i want to finish the paint first,because i need to drive it back and forth,and it'll be down for a while,when i put these on. after the manifold is completly finished,then i have to yank the carbs and get rebuilding. they leak oil everywhere. i was expecting that on 35 year old carbs though. they are simple to rebuild.
http://img105.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/02/s4020027-47cwtr5if.jpg

lostforawhile
08-02-2007, 07:05 PM
Yeah nice work. Purple paint next?yep

EricW
08-02-2007, 07:45 PM
Nice work, can't wait to see it finished.

87lxiaccord
08-02-2007, 08:10 PM
Yeah It looks really good!

lostforawhile
08-02-2007, 09:02 PM
another thread for this thread http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61423

Civic Accord Honda
08-02-2007, 09:19 PM
Nice!

forrest89sei
08-02-2007, 09:20 PM
Looks Great :D

wprocomp
08-03-2007, 03:20 AM
looks good but I would of opted to run everything underneath the manifold to clean it up imo

MessyHonda
08-03-2007, 06:45 AM
hope it clears.

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 03:15 PM
hope it clears.ya it';ll clear. my intake tube and air cleaner sit a lot higher then that on top of the existing carb. remember theres not even a carb sitting on top of this intake,they are at the back. picture your intake with nothing on top of it and you'll see how low it actually sits. theres a whole bunch of crap sticking out of the top of the factory manifold. plus the engine is tilted back fifteen degrees so it actually sits pretty low under the hood. i didn't want to hide everything under the manifold,because i wanted a very industrial,functional looking design. someone told me it actually looks like some kind of spacecraft. i was thinking a little bit of making it look like industrial art. I'm also a fan of Indian Larry and designers like him, who like to put all the mechanical stuff on display,where it should be.

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 04:17 PM
i finally made the lines for the gauge vents. been trying to figure the logistics for a while. the gauges need vents to operate properly,and because they are mounted horizontally,the damping fluid(glycerin) would run out,so i had to invent a system to vent the gauges,and keep the fluid. been working on it for a while, and got stuck on how to connect the gauges to the vent lines. finally figured out,i could make fittings with a 1/4-28 socket head cap screw,with a hole drilled in it,and hard plastic gauge line. i epoxied the line permanently into the screws,then used standard compression fitings on the other end. the other parts were made earlier. it goes to a central vent that is attached to the lines. these parts used to be painted purple,but i had to blast the paint off due to the soldering coming loose. i still have to resolder them and to the bracket. thats why in some pics they are purple and not in others.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p9a002d687519b3172aca37a062120a32/ea633419.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p7a52d26f956caf2c340d64297d25c610/ea633414.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4b06d29f1a5cac1d97da25f17e1667ad/ea633411.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pdf4baac39e23740688460aa5c079c3b2/ea63340e.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p524b0de09ae3fd1a1e6b7f447d542c5f/ea6309bd.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p9400b6de3d934c15981ec64cb8e5547f/e84700d3.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p736a75f6f25aeeee92e7da3118504dd7/e8470086.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pb9cb0c4e5d0c1dff2c50dcede6fd29f4/e8470055.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pbbdb0139fb9e1fa1694ccec2218525b0/e8470022.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p6ac8832bd0ad36592e3cb48b8540786f/e846fff3.jpg

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 04:20 PM
post 2

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p140426e1add95f8f59a4a2311facca58/e846ffb1.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p7f8aba62f02d6b8be7add7de697396b4/e846ff51.jpg

88Accord-DX
08-03-2007, 05:24 PM
Do them SU side draft carbs need that much vacuum modifications to work right?

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 05:35 PM
the reason i made this,was because the main vaccume port on this manifold is on the passenger side,and the brake booster is on the driver side. this gives me a fixed line to cross over the manifold,there will be another an hose on the drivers side,it will go straight back to the booster,and be T'd in at the firewall for the vaccume storage bottle. this also gives me a place to tie into manifold vaccume. plus he brackets that hold it,will also support the fuel pressure regulator,which will mount on the manifold, the way mine is now with the current setup. olus i thought it would be kind of cool to use part of a fuel injection system on a carbed engine. I mean they must have some kind of use.

88Accord-DX
08-03-2007, 05:42 PM
Is that what you plan on doing with the other 3 fittings on the top? Taps for storage, ect.?

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 05:48 PM
yea and some other projects that are going on here that require manifold vacccume. plus some other things that will get revealed in time that i need it for. if you look in my other thread, http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56803 you'll see that those are the only three vaccume taps on the entire thing,except for the two that go to the dis. and the water temp controls for that are mounted in the coolant passage that runs along side the vaccume balance tube built into the original SU manifold. but those are on the bottom side completly out of site. the copper lines that run together,two go to the dis. like original, and two of them are just vents for the two vaccume gauges.

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 05:56 PM
this is how the lines connect to the rail,all AN no rubber hose. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/pbbdb0139fb9e1fa1694ccec2218525b0/e8470022.jpg

lostforawhile
08-03-2007, 06:21 PM
here is what the carbs are actually off of originally. mine came from the 1972 datsun 510 sss,which was never sold here in the us. that makes it super rare jdm stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datsun_510

Cheeseburger
08-04-2007, 09:39 PM
dam! looking mint tim!

BITESIZE
08-04-2007, 11:29 PM
I still don't understand what you're doing. :) But looks hella tight!

lostforawhile
08-05-2007, 08:05 AM
you will understand in time grasshopper. actually nobody understands what the hell i'm doing but thats just me. kind of like cahs spelling and grammer.

MessyHonda
08-05-2007, 08:11 AM
yeah carbs are cool if you know how to work on them and Tim....looks like you grew up with carbs. for us youngin's we need EFI so we can run ebay cold air intake tubes.

lostforawhile
08-05-2007, 08:15 AM
yeah carbs are cool if you know how to work on them and Tim....looks like you grew up with carbs. for us youngin's we need EFI so we can run ebay cold air intake tubes.lol except if you are running a pringles can ranch air flavored intake tube.

DDRaptor
08-05-2007, 08:51 AM
yeah your the damn man. That's badass i want to do twin carbs maybe twin DCOE 36mm but that's a lot of work and i don't know carbs like that. The first thing i need to is learn the vaccum system and what all the hoses are for and preform vac removals before i even attempt to buy the twin carbs and get the head p&p.
Really Cool Stuff. :bow: :bow: :bow:

HondaBoy
08-05-2007, 02:15 PM
i dunno. i can see what you doing. looks like its coming along well and its looking really neat. cant wait to see this project finished.

lostforawhile
08-05-2007, 02:53 PM
yea it's going to be a while, the rebuild kit for a pair of these is over 400 bucks :eek: so when i get the money i'll start rebuilding. thats a major overhaul kit though so it includes everything including throttle shafts. they are pretty easy to overhaul just need the parts. not too bad for a pair of carbs never imported into the us

HondaBoy
08-05-2007, 03:45 PM
didnt know the rebuild kits were that much. i have a pair sitting here from a 280Z with the manifold.

lostforawhile
08-05-2007, 03:51 PM
didnt know the rebuild kits were that much. i have a pair sitting here from a 280Z with the manifold.yea,they aren't cheap are the ones you have in good condition? if you want to sell them if they are let me know,i already have the manifold and linkages. the problem with the later ones,is the carbs had a lot of problems from emmisions equipment added to them. this is a 72 so it doesn't have emissions. this is from a 1972 datsun 510 sss which was only sold overseas. another set might get this setup up and running while i rebuild the better ones.

lostforawhile
08-07-2007, 02:52 PM
finally got a couple of small project on the carb setup done,put in the fuel gauge on the log at the firewall,had it forever,it's a mr gasket 0-15 psi. it seems very well made,steel case and chrome plated,glass lens. whatever you do don't buy the specter gauge,it's a plastic case that fall off just by handling it. not very reassuring for something that goes in your fuel system. when i made the fuel log,it's milled off at an angle and tapped for the gauge,i just had a pipe plug in it.
http://img104.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/07/s4020041-47ets09jq.jpg
http://img105.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/07/s4020040-47ets09pc.jpg
also running some lines on the manifold,the other line for the vaccume rail is in,as well as i'm working on the fuel distributor right now,thats why it's out.
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/07/s4020042-47ets09ef.jpg

lostforawhile
08-08-2007, 06:08 PM
http://img103.mytextgraphics.com/marqueetextlive/2007/08/09/c054ed0cd49ddc8e1037c9e73c5acf05.gif (http://www.marqueetextlive.com)
not sure if this post on the fuel pressure gauge is still up after the board went PBBBBLLLTTT!,this is a mr gasket 0-15 psi line pressure gauge mounted on the fuel log under the hood
http://img108.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020041-47fa1fowa.jpg
http://img107.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020042-47fa1fp2t.jpg
one of the mounts where the vaccume rail goes
http://img105.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020043-47fa1fp8d.jpg
the fuel distributor is welded up
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020044-47fa1fpeq.jpg
I made the valve for the check valve to change the direction of vaccume
http://img103.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020045-47fa1fpkz.jpg
check valve
http://img106.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/08/s4020046-47fa1fpot.jpg

russiankid
08-08-2007, 06:10 PM
That last pic with the check valve...where did you get it? I looked all over for one, then i ended up replacing my pump and don't need one anymore but i want to know where you got.

lostforawhile
08-08-2007, 06:20 PM
from a parts car at the junkyard, the last one he has. he smashed 20 three geez including three coupes. fucker. thats a vaccume valve anyway won't work for fuel. here is a link to a site where you can get the fuel valve like you want. http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fr_pumps.html

lostforawhile
08-10-2007, 06:26 PM
http://img108.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/08/10/s4020050-47g0ved21.jpg latest pic working on the lines for the brake booster check valve which will mount under the manifold out of site

lostforawhile
08-14-2007, 12:43 AM
can someone PLEASE move this thread into R&D or carb tech? i have people who would like to read it from outside three geez,but they can't due to the fact its in off topic. I'm not sure why it's even here anyway. this is a technical thread.

A20A1
08-14-2007, 01:48 AM
moved merged and marmalade

HondaBoy
08-14-2007, 04:00 PM
this is looking sweet man. i love custom projects like this that actually take initiative. again, good work tim!

lostforawhile
08-15-2007, 08:12 PM
thanks,there are a lot more pics then what it shows,image station is taking their sweet time getting back on line,so my pics are unhosted. just finished another thread,don't know if these will show up or not.
8:00 pm some more carb pics,this is the piece that holds the choke cable in place,it's almost done but the choke pull assembly will require some minor modifications,in order to work properly.
10:00 pmFINALLY GOT PICS UPLOADED,image station is off the air,photolave crashes my system, etc etc
11:48 pm never mind, I HATE this dam computer, nothing ever works right on it. i can't use any of my photo sites they all crash it.
have to keep trying photo upload sites until one doesn't crash
11:54 this is a test::

where the choke cable itself will attach
http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPJw0JMs4I/AAAAAAAAABg/eA-0bFqBAkw/modified1.jpg
the bracket where the cable attaches,attaches to the vaccume rail bracket
http://lh5.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPJxUJMs6I/AAAAAAAAABw/ZElaBaZYGfA/S4020054.jpg?imgmax=512
http://lh6.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPJxkJMs7I/AAAAAAAAAB4/yFIbplqBdGc/S4020055.jpg?imgmax=512
http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPJx0JMs8I/AAAAAAAAACA/XktNZiaO5TU/S4020056.jpg?imgmax=512
clearance for the throttle cable
http://lh6.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPLikJMs9I/AAAAAAAAACM/Fqmuve5UBx4/S4020057.jpg?imgmax=512
http://lh6.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPLikJMs-I/AAAAAAAAACU/5wjMUM_TXA8/S4020058.jpg?imgmax=512
bolt holes are slotted to give adjustment for alignment of the cable
http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RsPLi0JMs_I/AAAAAAAAACc/903011631D0/S4020059.jpg?imgmax=512

A18A
08-15-2007, 08:48 PM
those velocity stacks (is that what they're called?) look like they're gonna hit the firewall or not fit at all?

lostforawhile
08-15-2007, 08:56 PM
na theres plenty of clearance,those are aircleaners, even if i go the K&N filters which are 4 inches tall,i'll still have two inches of clearance at the firewall. everything was measured before i even started fabricating. the manifold itself is actually a little shorter then the factory one anyway.

A18A
08-15-2007, 08:57 PM
oh cool :thumbup:

lostforawhile
08-15-2007, 09:01 PM
i measured from the intake manifold flange,the edge of the manifold where it meets the head,to the firewall itself,they do give the appearance of being longer then they actually are.

lostforawhile
08-16-2007, 02:00 PM
Ok i redid this post
the choke cable mounting bracket, this is attached to the mounting brace which is attached to the vaccume rail. it's actually in two parts.i didn't want to cut the molded piece off the end of the cable,so the bracket is split in two halves to keep this piece,it's not attached yet i have to modify the center bar of the choke pull
http://lh6.google.com/lostforawhile/RsTHdUJMtAI/AAAAAAAAACk/ePomw-8_Pbg/S4020062.jpg?imgmax=512
the cable itself,this is part one of the of a two part cable. anybody who owns an lxi will recognize this as the firewall end of the throttle cablw with the thing that attaches to the firewall removed
http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RsTHdkJMtBI/AAAAAAAAACs/hxxUeyooE5E/S4020061.jpg?imgmax=512
the mounting bracket,this holds the end of the cable at the manifold,it clamps down on the plastic around the cable to hold it.
http://lh4.google.com/lostforawhile/RsTHd0JMtCI/AAAAAAAAAC0/K2ck21eqaLI/S4020060.jpg?imgmax=512

lostforawhile
08-16-2007, 05:10 PM
ok the previous post is now fixed and you don't need a magnifying glass to see the pictures :wave:

A20A1
08-16-2007, 08:44 PM
Nice video, now finish those velocity stacks :)

2oodoor
10-20-2007, 03:36 PM
http://lh3.google.com/lostforawhile/RsTHdkJMtBI/AAAAAAAAACs/hxxUeyooE5E/S4020061.jpg?imgmax=512
hey where do you get that chocolate pie from, that looks yummy me want pie NOW.. lol

I have been looking through this thread and I cant see the top view of the carbs you have anywhere.. you still have the hitatchi su or weber?

lostforawhile
10-20-2007, 06:16 PM
hitachi they are interchanable with the brittish Su carbs. a bunch of pics are missing because of imagestation. when i get a chance i will make an entire photo album on these. i'm waiting on some sort of mockup engine right now,in order to finish the carb support bracketry. and some other parts that need to be made. so i'm trying to work on the washer tank,but i can't find my dam unibits. i've torn this house apart. think hundred dollar set missing. :gun:

2oodoor
10-21-2007, 02:49 AM
yep I know the friustration of wanting to proceed on a project but one thing keeps you from starting and then that one thing turns into three things to get that one thing, etc... hard to get motivated after that.
It will orbit eventually ...
um.. about that pie

lostforawhile
10-21-2007, 10:00 AM
yep I know the friustration of wanting to proceed on a project but one thing keeps you from starting and then that one thing turns into three things to get that one thing, etc... hard to get motivated after that.
It will orbit eventually ...
um.. about that pie
oh thats from wal mart

lostforawhile
08-22-2008, 03:45 PM
Ok actually got something done, about time, I've been working on the problem of getting the choke cable into the engine compartment, and despite all the parts i've made, i still wasn't happy with it. I think I finally have the solution. first,the choke is not going to work having the knob in the center console, it's just not sturdy enough, I've braced it and it still moves. I made a complex set of linkages,and did a lot of work modifying a mazda choke pull,but it's just not right.
ok first this is the new knob, this is a one off made special for the diesel maule, they redid it all though,so now it's no longer being used. This is an aircraft control and is pushbutton lock release . I think i'm going to mount it where the cigarette lighter is now.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020036-2.jpg
Ok i made a block that mounts to the inside of the firewall, it's got a bronze bushing in it,this has an AN type bolt that slides back and forth, the bolt sticks through the fire wall into the engine compartment, the short choke cable screws into it, this causes the bolt to move, the other end that is in the engine compartment will have another cable from it to the choke assembly on the manifold.
heres all the pieces that go into this first
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020030.jpg
here is the spring retainer, this goes on the engine side, one end is 5/16-24 thread and screws into the bolt,the other is 1/4 28 thread,and the second choke cable screws into it.
this also retains the return coil spring, and keeps the bolt from falling back into the inside of the car
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020032.jpg
this is the side inside of the car facing away from the firewall, the washer is an O ring retainer,the bolt goes through an o ring, this keeps water from leaking in to the car. the back side gets a gasket.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020033.jpg
this is the firewall side.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020034-1.jpg
choke open
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020037-1.jpg
choke closed
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020038-1.jpg
on these carbs it's not really a choke plate,it's actually a mixture enrichment function, same thing a choke does, but in a different way

forrest89sei
08-22-2008, 03:52 PM
oh thats from wal mart

Mmmmm Nothing better then the Sweet Taste of Low Prices I tell you what,
Wal-Mart, Save Money, Live Better

on the quick find

To turn the Quick Find feature off, click on the "Desktop Preferences" link located on your Google Desktop homepage and select the "Display" toplink. Within the "Quick Find" category, un-check the box that says "Show Desktop search results as I type." Be sure to click on the "Save Preferences" button when exiting.

To enable Quick Find again later, simply re-check the box and save your preferences.

lostforawhile
08-22-2008, 04:23 PM
fixed
leaving full screen causes the search to quit working too, every time i would hit the ' key it would go into search.

lostforawhile
08-23-2008, 04:34 PM
well I was going to see where to put the pieces in the cable,but with the weather forget it. my garage is flooded anyway.

lostforawhile
08-25-2008, 06:01 PM
Ok have the choke cable ready to go in,it operates the linkage i made which operates another cable outside of the firewall. I will get the metal mounting piece powdercoated black,then engraved with the push to unlock, pull to choke
heres the piece that fits in where the lighter plug is, and the brace on the back,i made the brace from an angle grinder center i machined off.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020044-1.jpg
choke knob in place
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020045-1.jpg
the knob is a push to unlock
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020046-1.jpg

LX-incredible
08-26-2008, 08:58 AM
Sick choke man.

MessyHonda
08-27-2008, 11:12 PM
your car must have almost the same amount of wires and cables than a bowing 747

2oodoor
08-28-2008, 03:04 AM
I want a choke set up like that, you should never have any problems with it like people usually have with those lawnmower type cables.
Precision positioning too.

lostforawhile
12-22-2008, 05:30 PM
project is still on track,just waiting out the money stuff right now to finish it

lostforawhile
12-22-2008, 05:42 PM
oh the breather will be gone, i made a small low profile breather that goes straight on the valve cover.

lostforawhile
01-17-2009, 10:13 PM
Ok as soon as it warms back up again, going to start taking crap off of the original carb,all the vaccume lines,the box,original manifold,etc. going to get this manifold mounted and on the car. i want to get everything on,then it's easy to pul the carbs later to have them overhauled.at least everything else is fitted and bolted on. i have so many parts ready for the engine, that i just can't justify working around all the original crap anymore. it's really getting in the way. car may sit longer, but when it rolls out it will be under SU power. project is by no means dead. i made gaskets for between the manifold halves yesterday. it's been below freezing for days though,so will be a while.

lostforawhile
09-10-2011, 11:18 AM
I'm working on this again, for something interesting look at the specs for the 67 Datsun 2000 roadster which uses basically the same carbs, vs the carbed A20, I think the horsepower and torque difference is mainly due to the dual carbs and better intake manifold, the one I built should flow about the same, remember this is on a stock roadster with no modifications




Specs for the 1969 Datsun 2000 roadster:
Engine Location: Front
Drive type: Rear wheel
Weight: 1980 lbs.
Combined MPG: 22
0-60 mph: 8.4 seconds
Top speed: 108 mph
Engine: I-4
Model: U20
Solid Valve lifters
Aspiration/Induction: Natural
Displacement: 1982.00 cc
Valvetrain: SOHC
HP: 135 HP @ 6000.00 RPM
Torque: 132 ft-lbs @4400.00 RPM
HP to weight: 14.7 LB/HP
HP / Liter: 67.5 BHP / Liter
Bore: 87.1 mm
Stroke: 83.1 mm
Compression Ration: 9.5:1
Electronics: 12-volt electrical
Fuel type: Gasoline – Petrol
Fuel feed: Two SU-type carburetors
Block: Cast-iron
Head: Aluminum
Transmission: 5-Speed Manual with synchromesh gears
Final Drive: 3.70:1


A20A1 & A20A2

The A20A1 and A20A2 were the carbureted versions of the A20A engines. It was available in the 1984-1987 Honda Preludes as well as the 1982-1989 Accord DX and LX. They are the same engine, the only difference between them being that the A20A2 has no emissions components, so it has a slightly higher power output.

Specifications

Exhaust: 4-1 Cast Manifold
Induction: Carbureted 2bbl Keihin ( Feedback Carb )
Displacement: 1,955 cc (119.3 cu in)
Bore: 82.7 mm (3.26 in)
Stroke: 91 mm (3.6 in)
Power (A20A1):
98 hp (73 kW)
109 ft·lbf (148 N·m) at 3500 rpm


can someone fill in the blanks as far as specs between the A20, vs what specs are missing that are listed under the roadster, this will be interesting when I get it running to dyno it and see what it does, with ignition,exhaust,cam, etc. the roadster engine has a slightly bigger bore but shorter stroke

Hauntd ca3
09-10-2011, 12:11 PM
dunno if you've made your trumpets for these yet, but how are you going to do it?
you going to make a former and just flare some exhaust tube in a press like i did or are you going to spin some up out of alloy on the lathe?

lostforawhile
09-10-2011, 12:18 PM
dunno if you've made your trumpets for these yet, but how are you going to do it?
you going to make a former and just flare some exhaust tube in a press like i did or are you going to spin some up out of alloy on the lathe?I have an entire thread on it somewhere I made some aluminum ones, but I'm not happy with them, I ended up taking apart a factory 240 air cleaner, cutting out the trumpets, and welding them to the plates on my new air cleaners, look up losts eyeball air cleaners

lostforawhile
09-10-2011, 12:24 PM
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75231

Hauntd ca3
09-10-2011, 12:39 PM
completely forgot about that.
you must have far more patience than i .
i was getting wound up after 2 hours of machining up the former to make my own trumpets.

lostforawhile
09-10-2011, 12:41 PM
completely forgot about that.
you must have far more patience than i .
i was getting wound up after 2 hours of machining up the former to make my own trumpets. I made the center hole too big so I kept them for paperweights too much work to get rid of, the aluminum ones not the eyeball ones the eyeball ones go on the car, I didn't drill the mounting holes yet, waiting until I get a gasket so i can mark them properly

Edison Carasio
10-22-2011, 06:03 AM
Man this I an old thread that I REALLY want to see finished!

lostforawhile
10-22-2011, 11:03 AM
I have to finish a bunch of wiring and plumbing, but you get the idea

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022013.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022014.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download502-1.jpg

rjudgey
10-25-2011, 02:39 AM
Did you ever get round to putting on a rolling road? what size are the bores/chokes in these SU's?