please help, this is my last engine i have

[custom]

ok where should i start. this is the second engine i'm installing because for some reason the #2 piston keeps fuc$%^ up. let me add by saying that i have a 1986 honda accord with the usual mods. header, exhaust, intake MSD box/coil and rev limiter/ground wires. but one thing i would like to bring out is, my intake manifold. i have a two piece that is from the 1989 automatic accord because, from what i found out that it came stock with 122hp and the only thing different was the intakes. so i swaped the one piece with the two piece which resulted in more throttle but not much of a responce of power. i would like to know is this the cause of my engines blowing? and shoud i bother to add engine restorer to my next engine? for some reason it seems like it hurts more than helps and i use 20/50 castrol oil in all my engines.

[reanimator420]

20/50!!! if your in nc, you need to use 10/30!! where in nc are you located?

[2oodoor]

Yeah North Carolina members!!
Yeah SC and GA members too, and ALA and TN , FLA

Hey maybe you need the computer out of that car you robbed the manifold out of, it sounds like a two stage type deal and you would need controler hardware. Maybe its leaning out real bad.

Engine Restorer works great for filling voids like valve guides or cylinders that are slightley worn or scored. It stays suspended there to fill the void, pour some out on top of an oil drum sometime , scratch it up first, and watch what it does, its neat. It does not always work for a magical snake oil cure though, and can make clogged up engine worse. If your oil burning is caused by cam bearings or something other thans cylinder wear, it will burn more oil and smoke with the Restrorer.
I swear by Castrol GTX 20 50w for reducing oil consumption and leakage. It works even better when its cold. but not like below 20 degrees, it can make things a little too thick. 10w30 works good too, Castrol is the key.

[russiankid]

Switch to 10w30 Mobile One oil and Mobile One oil filter.

[shepherd79]

so you just bolted on the 88-89 intake manifold, but what about all the sensors.
did you connect them?
have you checked the piston copression, what is it?

[Vanilla Sky]

what about a clogged or bad injector? you may be detonating in that one cylinder and screwing it up.

the intake accounts for a better torque curve in the 88/9 engine. you still need all of the hardware to operate it. it's operated by an electronically switched vacuum source. your ECU is what tells it to open and close. without it, you're stuck in one position.

the real increase in power came from an increase in compression ratio and a different cam profile in the later years of the LXi. the intake manifold and exhaust manifold were different, offering minimal gains, but the big ones were much more internal.

[custom]

i haven't check the compression. and for the connectors the only one that was not connected was. the idle air control valve the car would idle fine. the engine is loose and is coming out tomarrow. so, basically yall telling me to put back on the one piece, which is what i'm going to do. i haven't totally disasymbal the engine but, i got the head off but the problems were down at the bottom. so i will have to take out the oil pan and start removing some pistons to really see the problem. thats were most of the noise was coming from. when i started the engine today to move it to a better spot, it was knocking really bad. it was like some little man was knocking the cylinder walls with a sludg hammer.
so... please tell me this. i can switch back to 10/30 wt oil eventhough i've been using 20/50 for months in the replacement engine?
*i guess i'll be adding more restorer just incase.


1.i can switch back to 10/30 wt oil eventhough i've been using 20/50 for a while?

[russiankid]

Yes you can switch back. Sounds like something is either loose inside your engine, or there is some object inside. You sure your oil pump is fine?

[custom]

i'm not sure about the oil pump.. how much do they cost? i got to replace the oil pan gasket, should i replace the oil pump on this engine? it only had 150+k miles. how hard is it to install and oil pressure gauge? should i invest in one?

and i'm in Durham North Carolina
so changing the oil to 10/30 isn't like putting water in the engine. goihng from thick to thin

[cygnus x-1]

Before you replace anything you should figure out what is causing that knocking. If the engine has major mechanical damage you might need to rethink things.

C|

[88Accord-DX]

Engine knock is a syptom of detonation. The combustion chamber pressure rises so quickly that parts of the engine vibrate. Detonation sounds like a hammer hitting the side of the engine. It is caused by combustion being too slow. End gas, or unburned air/fuel mixture, ignites and two flame fronts collide with a loud knock.

Detonation damage includes cracked cylinder heads, blown head gaskets, burned pistons, & shattered spark plugs.

[custom]

so maybe i sould have replaced the spark plugs first? the spark plug was damaged an the gap was almost closed,

[88Accord-DX]

so maybe i sould have replaced the spark plugs first? the spark plug was damaged an the gap was almost closed,
Definetly, with it being damaged. Spark plug gap is .039 - .043 in. (1.0 - 1.1 mm)

[HondaBoy]

hmm, sounds interesting. i havent heard of an engine blowing, quickly, from detonation. although, you let it go on long enough and it can happen. especially if you've done anything to raise the compression. things i would check is your cam timing, ignition timing, check compression, check flow of injectors, check for vacuum leaks in the intake manifold: gaskets, vacuum hoses. also, if you've taken the engine apart, i've found it sometimes necessary to replace the hardware, like bolts, bearings and other parts affected by engine heat that like to bust once you put torque on them after dissasembly. this is mainly on the A20's i've worked on. dont know why but a lot of shit breaks easily after nearly 20 years, from what i've seen. also, i'd not recommend using that thick of oil. its not a diesel and doesnt need too thick an oil. 20W50 actually shouldnt be too bad, but could raise oil pressure enough to start a problem. 10W30 is almost perfect, not too thin, not too thick. actually isnt that what was recommended for these engiens?

[88Accord-DX]

Actually, I think there is an issue with the different intake manifold not getting the right air/fuel mixture along with a spark issue on #2 cylinder. Maybe some sensors need to routed with with a correct ECU. It's hard to say on words along. There are things like piston slap, timing, rod bearings & so forth that can cause an engine to make a serious KNOCK noise. (hard to say on the 'net')

But yeah, with a spark plug gap almost closed on #2 & not the right gap will cause some issues.

Edit- compression test & good fire to the plug is a good start on #2 cylinder.

[custom]

well for starters i'm just going to put back on the one piece intake. but i strongly dout it could be that. its like, i had more throttle/air but, it was not to much of a reponce to respond. maybe my timming was off. the car would jump and repond like the timming was off when i would start it.
my cousins told me...well everyone tells me thats its my driving habbit. i would redline almost everyday. but, how is that when i get a knew cam. my engine is expected to turn higher rpm. Should i even invest in one?

[Ichiban]

if your spark plug is smashed closed and you are getting a vicious knock, you likely have a shot rod bearing. The excessive clearance is allowing the piston to travel too far up the bore and it's hitting the head/sparkplug. The knocking is a combination of this and the rod journal kicking the shit outta the inside of the rod bore. I bet if you drain your oil, it will have a silver or copper metallic sheen to it. That's some of your rod bearing. Cut apart your oil filter and you'll find the rest of it. Most often the crank journal will be destroyed as well, along with the rod, piston, valves and head.

[custom]

the head looks fine.i didn't pay too much attention to thr oil whrn i drained it. i'm going to take the oil pan out and when i get back up to the shop i'll check the oil filter. i tried applying pressure to the #2 piston from the top trying to push it down, it wouldn't be loose or nothing?

[Ichiban]

chances are gravity would have forced it down already. When the piston approaches TDC on the exhaust stroke, its momentum continues to carry it upwards through it's range of clearance, until it hits either the rod journal on the crank, or the head/plug/valves, whatever is closest. If you pull your oil pan, you might be able to grab the bottom of the rod and physically move it, or even see bearing material extruding from the sides.

[88Accord-DX]

Well, if the rod bearing went to shit, the piston will not hit the spark plug. More than likely, the piston will hit a valve. Anyhow, you won't be able to tell if the rod bearing is shot untill you pull the oil pan off, grab the rod & try to move it up & down.

[2oodoor]

Well, if the rod bearing went to shit, the piston will not hit the spark plug. More than likely, the piston will hit a valve. Anyhow, you won't be able to tell if the rod bearing is shot untill you pull the oil pan off, grab the rod & try to move it up & down.
:rly: interesting, that is what I was thinking as well, unless it ran a bunch and swallowed some valve.
custom, your gonna get schooled on this motor till you get done, the oil pump is not inside the oil pan. It is driven by the timing belt, and comes out without removing oil pan.

It would be wise to check your injectors agree but it seem like you would feel it skipping at the rev load if that were a problem to cause the other problem your having. Be sure and inspect that head gasket real carefully and dont tear it all up when you remove it, so that you can 'read' the head and gasket case it is a cooling problem. Looking at the other side of things besides mixture issues, since you feel so strongley that the intake is fine.

[custom]

one thing i noticed when i installed the engine that just blew was that when i put a 3000 chip for the rev control to play with it, it would not studder. i though it was a timming issue but i check that several times. the car would idle erratically when it warms up nothing major(really) but, it wouldn't stay 900-950rpm when idleing, the jump was not dramatic. when i would rev. the evgine to high rpm and let off the accelerator it would drop to 500rpm and then climb up to 900-950rpm and back to its erratic idle.
to add, the senor connecting to the throttle body was not connected connected. because the connectors ( male connectors from throttle body) were exposed and one eventually broke discontinuing the use of it. i have another throttle body that connectors fine but, it sticks a times. what i did was cut the wires from the old connectors for the last throttle body and replace it with the connectors for the two piece intake.
But could my problems come from the EGR valve?
1. the cooling of the engine was fine, no problems with my head gasket, it was new.
2. the valves on the head was fine i just cleaned them and my cousin checked them, he didn;t take them out. but he check for play.
3.How do i install an oil pressure gauge, now the on from advance auto for $20. will fit?

[custom]

i contine to think that my larger intke was not able to burn off all the fuel. so how do i control the fuel air mixture? the only thing i can think about is the adjustment screw on the throttle body and the ignition timming. i'm really going to just put back on the original throttle body to save myself the confusion. i cant afford this to happen again and not having another car. tax season is right around the corner. ill just wait to get another car to tinker with this one because this is my primary. i still wan to know about the intake manifold...
ok, im thinking about the automatic accord. the dashop is the only diffference. if you take the top half of the intake off you'll see like four valves that the dashop controls when switching gears or letting of the accelorator to equalize air/fuel mixture or give the engine time to catch up with itself. ok, and everything kinda falls back to the computer thing yall talking about. when i had my 89 accord converted to a 5speed i had all the wires connected to the intake. and the problem was the idle air control valve which would cause this bad idle going from 900-1400rpm and it would continue repeatedly when the car was in neutral. i blew two engines and the third one was taken out because i totaled the car. i really dont think that intake manifold just wasn't intended for M/T. please correct me if i'm wrong...

[custom]

www.boostdoctor.com
come feel the boost

[Ichiban]

Well, if the rod bearing went to shit, the piston will not hit the spark plug. More than likely, the piston will hit a valve. Anyhow, you won't be able to tell if the rod bearing is shot untill you pull the oil pan off, grab the rod & try to move it up & down.

Right.

Unless 1) they installed a plug that was previously damaged (doubt it) or 2) installed too long of a plug, please explain what would cause plug damage in the presence of an apparent rod bearing clearance problem.

I know that excess rod clearance WILL cause the piston to smash the shit outta the top end on SOME engines ie 20R/early 22R w/domed pistons, and maybe due to the chamber/piston design on the A20 it can't actually hit the spark plug. Maybe it can. Only pulling the head and looking will tell. Maybe there's some carbon or crap built up on the piston crown that's causing issues, that's a possibility too, given the history of fuel ratio problems with his engine.

If you get under the engine and listen, maybe use a stethoscope, you can usually make a pretty safe assumption that a rod is shot just by the noise it's making.

[Ichiban]

Your idle issues and air/fuel issues lead me to believe you have a vacuum leak. Kinda hard to tell without the car in front of me though.

[custom]

the engine havent been in but almost a month. when i replaced the engine i cleaned the carbon off the pistons till they looked brand new and put a new head gasket on it. when i took the head off though there was carbon build up. not bad but their was enough. it looked as if it did when i first cleaned it. is it supose to looki like that? should carbon build up that quickly?

[MessyHonda]

the engine havent been in but almost a month. when i replaced the engine i cleaned the carbon off the pistons till they looked brand new and put a new head gasket on it. when i took the head off though there was carbon build up. not bad but their was enough. it looked as if it did when i first cleaned it. is it supose to looki like that? should carbon build up that quickly?


some sparkplugs help burn the fuel better....also some seafoam should help keep the carbon deposits down

[2oodoor]

one thing i noticed when i installed the engine that just blew was that when i put a 3000 chip for the rev control to play with it, it would not studder. i though it was a timming issue but i check that several times. the car would idle erratically when it warms up nothing major(really) but, it wouldn't stay 900-950rpm when idleing, the jump was not dramatic. when i would rev. the evgine to high rpm and let off the accelerator it would drop to 500rpm and then climb up to 900-950rpm and back to its erratic idle.
to add, the senor connecting to the throttle body was not connected connected. because the connectors ( male connectors from throttle body) were exposed and one eventually broke discontinuing the use of it. i have another throttle body that connectors fine but, it sticks a times. what i did was cut the wires from the old connectors for the last throttle body and replace it with the connectors for the two piece intake.
But could my problems come from the EGR valve?
1. the cooling of the engine was fine, no problems with my head gasket, it was new.
2. the valves on the head was fine i just cleaned them and my cousin checked them, he didn;t take them out. but he check for play.
3.How do i install an oil pressure gauge, now the on from advance auto for $20. will fit?
I am surprized you even got it to acclerate or idle at all with all of that possibly malfunked. If your going to run it hard, get aftermarket TB and TB sensor. Does the ECU on 3Gen control distributor? I dint know that. I never ran across a chip change for 3Gen EFI, nor rev limter capabilty. I have heard of it on B18's, maybe Im ignorant to that.
There is no way for me to tell if you are getting signals out to the right PINS on the ECU. That is something you have to find out, and the rev limter came with instructions???
Oil pressure guage is easy, just replace the sender on top of the oil filter housing with the fitting from your guage kit., run it thru the firewall safely, and mount the guage.

[custom]

OK, today i finally completed installing and starting the engine. it runs fine but, i have a bad oil leak from the transmission. which turn out to be the driverside axle not being all the way in the transmission. put i can fix that really quick. and theirs a tick tick tick coming from one of the valves which i will have to adjust tomarrow. and one more thing, the driver side caliper seems to be sticking. ok... this is the last problem. well, not problem but, the timming is 180 off. i can get all of that done but ill put off on the timming its not that serious.
But, overall the engine reponds and runs great!!! the feel of that brand spanking new STOCK clutch is awsome. lol. i really wish their was a consistant feel of a brand new clutch. but, i dont have the money and i have a life time warrenty on that clutch. auto zone is pissed, this is my 4th clutch in 1 year. i put the two piece intake back on. eventhough i was debating it to replace it with the one piece, i'm going to go light on this engine and keep a 4,800chip in my rev control. to ensure the saftey of my engine. i know myself and after a while when i get confortable with this engine i'll be back racing. i cant help it and its a problem, i dont get cought.

[Vanilla Sky]

if your timing is 180 degrees out, you're not running safely. hell, can an engine even run at 180 degrees out?

[shepherd79]

if your timing is 180 deg off your engine is not going to run right. i don't think it will even start.

[88Accord-DX]

Right.
Unless 1) they installed a plug that was previously damaged (doubt it) or 2) installed too long of a plug, please explain what would cause plug damage in the presence of an apparent rod bearing clearance problem.

I haven't seen any head that will allow the piston to hit the spark plug, cause most are up in the head just enough for the piston to hit. After a real good thought of it. EDIT-I do think the piston will hit the valve in the A20A1 head with the recess in the piston if the rod bearing went to shit. Lets think about it, if the rod bearing makes enough noise. Your probably not going to run the engine long afterwards.

Anyhow, here is there reason behind what I said. The spark plug is back behind where the base of the where the piston (could) hit the top of the spark plug . (which is typical in most top end engine configurations)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ddude2uc/A20A1bottomofrebuilthead.jpg

[Ichiban]

With the placement of the plug and flat top pistons in most A20's, it does seem unlikely. Some engines however, will hit the head/valves when the rod bearings die. 89accordturboe'd posted pic's of this happening somewhere. Engines with close valve/piston tolerances to begin with are prone to this during the exhaust stroke, as there is no compression/ignition "cushion" to keep the piston away from the head. In fact, as I'm sure you know, most rods break during extension on the exhaust stroke, contrary to what most believe.

[88Accord-DX]

Hey, I can see how other things can happen now. I'm no far by a closed minded person working in the field. So I agree with you.

[Ichiban]

Hey, I've heard of a 2 stroke V8 detroit diesel sucking out an oil seal in the supercharger, running away using oil as fuel, hitting 9 grand and exploding. Weird shit happens.

[88Accord-DX]

I totally said that wrong. So I had to edit it. Back to the topic. This goes back a long time ago.

With his combustion issue that is blowing the head gasket. It reminds me of a 82 S-10 pickup with a mechanical fuel pump that was replaced with an electrice one. Anyway, what was going on, was it wasn't getting enough fuel in the 3rd or or 4th cylinder. Eventually, the problem was the electrical fuel pump didn't have enough pressure to give each cylinder the proper fuel ratio & blew the head gasket out a few times.... (took a while to diagnose)

[custom]

*if the spark plug gets too hot could it cause it to close up?
my engine head still has this 'ticking' sound coming from it. all the valves were adjusted to specified lenghts(0.010) i'm going to redo them again later today.
and my car still runs with the timming 180 off. just redo the ignitions wires .start 1-3,4-2 were 4-2,1-3 starts

[custom]

those some clean valves

[custom]

ok i'm sorry it took so long to disasymbol the engine but, i found that the #1 piston rod had excessive play. i could litereally move the rod connecting to the crank left-right up-down i took all the pistons out. visually i could not see how it had excessive play. i kinda took every thing apart really quickly and left it alone.i'm going to check the crank and rod better to come up with the acutal conclusion