Engine Swaps

[Ichiban]

As there's much discussion elsewhere on the board regarding 2gen engine swaps, I figured I'd start an actual swap thread in the interests of making the information easier to follow.

Anyways, lets discuss availiable engine swaps for the 2gen (82-83) and the 2.5 gen (84-85). See the sticky on the topic for a basic rundown.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50189

As most of us know, the 2.5 gen cars share the same family of engines as the 3g, (and 2nd gen prelude) and any swaps or tuning that apply also apply to you. However, the 2.5g never came with the A20, so that is your best bolt-in option. Ideal would be the JDM B20A, but we all know how hard they are to find.

The early 2gen cars are a different story. They share an engine family with the 1st gen accord, the EK or EL engines. Right now I am attempting an A20 fuel injected swap on an 82. I expect to have to fabricate at least one motor mount, a custom exhaust header and down the road an elaborate axle/tranny/bearing swap. For the axle info, see the sticky.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=609557#post609557

I will post more info as it emerges.

[shepherd79]

if you are going to conver to EFI and make your engine mounts why not go with newer engines. B16, B18 or B20/vtec?

[Ichiban]

Well, several reasons. I figure the A20 with some mods will give me enough power for fun on the street and the odd auto-x. Plus, parts are reasonably cheap, and the A-series "fits", I can use a tranny that doesn't require axle swaps afik, the jury is still out on the rear mount, the side mount can come from another car, the front mount can be modified by me in minutes to work, and I don't have to butcher the chassis of the car to mount the engine. Any other swap (other than going backwards in time) requires me to totally rethink the engine mounts as B, H, D etc use a completely different system of hanging the engine and tranny. Plus I paid $400 CDN for a complete A20A3 plus wiring harness and ECU, and I'm getting another complete car (minus tranny) with A20A4 for 75 bucks and an old TV. Either way, the A-swap, I believe, is the easiest and cheapest way to make the car go faster and still keep it "stock". Once the swap is completed, there should be no mod's to the car itself, in terms of chassis or mounts. It would technically be possible to put the EL back in, if one were so inclined.

[2ndGenGuy]

The A-series, I believe is the perfect swap for older Hondas. It's been tweaked enough to give a good amount of power stock for the 2nd gen. Also, it's old enough that when someone pops the hood, it's not a blaring obvious engine swap. Only someone who knows the old Accords will know. It makes them question the new car they bought when the older "unmodified" one kicks thier ass.

[79cord]

All makes sense -I'll pay attention since anything that could be done in this area to early 2g should also apply for 1st gen Accord or Prelude (excluding driveshaft lengths).
You'd still have to get creative to make room for a forward exit exhaust wouldn't you? -or does 2g have more room here than 1g. I've seen pics of cut & reinforced frt subframes or cutting bodywork (on 1g) to route exhaust well forward of subframe.

[loko84hb]

one miniscule quesiton lol besided fabricating new mounts, what else would be necessary for an h22a to fit in a 2.5g? or is it not even possible?

[Ichiban]

well, loko, for an H22 to go in, I'd imagine you would want to purchase an entire "clip", or a parts car from which you would source your swap. You'd need the engine, tranny, ecu and wiring harness. I believe the H22A trans is cable shift/hydraulic clutch, but not entirely sure. You would have to fabricate adaptors to operate these systems. The engine mounts would have to be accurately layed out, and then welded to the chassis. Exhaust would have to be fabricated to clear the front crossmember. As for axles, this is something you'd have to research and figure out, as it would be particular to your specific swap.

79 cord, the early 2g is much like the 1g. My exhaust will either be routed to the right of the engine bay and under the tranny (preferable) or simply in front of the crossmember. If the former proves unworkable, then over the crossmember it will be. I do not plan on modifying the structure of the car in any way.

[Ichiban]

guyhatesmycar,

I'll think about splitting this thread up later, I'm being too lazy to do it now. Whether or not the front/back or the drivers side mounts line up is really a matter of which one you connect first. In my case I connected the drivers side first because I figured the front/back would be easier to fabricate. But any way I did measure the blocks and found the EK to be an inch or so shorter then the A20. I couldn't see the EL block being longer then an EK. I had pictures of all this at one point but they were lost in a hard drive crash long ago.

andy

I was looking at the engine in my car today and it does look like there will be room for the block to come over. Any idea what the fudge factor is on the cv shafts and shift linkage?

If anyone has a pic of their A16 or ES2 drivers side engine mount, could you post it please?

[Holy^ghost]

drivers side engine mount eh would i have to lift the car? i have an A16 so tell what i have to do to get a pic of it

[MessyHonda]

The A-series, I believe is the perfect swap for older Hondas. It's been tweaked enough to give a good amount of power stock for the 2nd gen. Also, it's old enough that when someone pops the hood, it's not a blaring obvious engine swap. Only someone who knows the old Accords will know. It makes them question the new car they bought when the older "unmodified" one kicks thier ass.


i like that.

[Ichiban]

I actually found pic's of the side mounts on the internet, mainly over at preludepower. I'll post em up later today, I also discovered that the side mount on the block itself is bolted on, and may interchange with the shorter EK mount. More on this later.

[PhydeauX]

... Any idea what the fudge factor is on the cv shafts and shift linkage? ...

If, as you said in the other thread, you got the rear mount to line up then there shouldn't have to fudge much if anything. The 2g and 2.5g have the same track width so the 2.5g axles should work as long as the diff is in the right spot. I believe the drivers side of the diff case is the exact center of the car. It's either that or the bolt of the motor mount I forget which but they are very close. Thats an easy way to estimate if its lined up. You get an inch or so play either way but make sure to fully compress the suspension and check that the axles don't bind. Also raise it to full droop and make sure that they don't try to pop out of the cups. I'm not 100% sure but I'd put money on if you got the original rear mount on the prelude tranny and it lined up with the stock mount then you'll be fine.


If anyone has a pic of their A16 or ES2 drivers side engine mount, could you post it please?

I've found a drivers side mount sitting around in my "box of car parts that I should probably throw away but keep just in case some day they turn out to be useful" the other day. I'm not sure whether its the old EK mount or perhaps an ES mount that I happened to pick up along the way. (Actually I'm not even sure its a honda mount not that I think about it, it could be the MR2 pass side mount that came from the 4agze in my nova). I'll try to figure that one out and post a pic of it. I may even chase the squirrels out from the engine bay of the 2g and try to compare it to the ES mount thats in there.


actually found pic's of the side mounts on the internet, mainly over at preludepower. I'll post em up later today, I also discovered that the side mount on the block itself is bolted on, and may interchange with the shorter EK mount. More on this later.

The EK mount will bolt to the ET block no problem. I used the EK drivers side mount on my A20 when I tried to mount it in my 83. It didn't need any modification, just bolted right on. That said the front and rear mounts didn't line up which makes me think that the ET mount may actually be the shorter one.

andy

[Ichiban]

The EK mount will bolt to the ET block no problem. I used the EK drivers side mount on my A20 when I tried to mount it in my 83. It didn't need any modification, just bolted right on. That said the front and rear mounts didn't line up which makes me think that the ET mount may actually be the shorter one.

andy

Do you mean the mount that bolts directly to the side of the block, not to the rubber insulator on the car? It does make sense that the ET mount is shorter, as the ET block is longer, and I'm hoping the engine bays between 2 and 2.5 g are more similar than we thought. What I'm looking at is leaving the A-series side mount on the engine and getting a 2.5g car side mount to bolt to that. If all goes well, problem solved.

[forrest89sei]

The A-series, I believe is the perfect swap for older Hondas. It's been tweaked enough to give a good amount of power stock for the 2nd gen. Also, it's old enough that when someone pops the hood, it's not a blaring obvious engine swap. Only someone who knows the old Accords will know. It makes them question the new car they bought when the older "unmodified" one kicks thier ass.


:rockon: Power to the A-Series! :rockon:

[Cheeseburger]

A for the win!

[MessyHonda]

yeah 200 NA hp is a crazy build...you can get like 150 hp out of a semi performance rebuild.

[Holy^ghost]

ok i took pics of my A16A mounts for you guys

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9545/1001261ch0.th.jpg (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001261ch0.jpg)

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/568/1001260pm7.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001260pm7.jpg)

[Ichiban]

Okee, well, after looking at about 50 pictures of EK, ES2 and ET mounts, I'd have to say that the drivers side mount from all of the above engines are the same, or relatively similar. I have a suspicion that the A20 mount from the 3g on the block side is about an inch longer.

so...Andy.

When you put the A20 into your 2.5g, did you use the mount that came on the A20 block, or did you pull the timing cover and swap in the one from the ES2 block?

[PhydeauX]

I'm fairly certain that I used the mount from the EK block. But I could be way wrong and have used the mount from the A20. It was 5 years ago or so (I think, I don't remember for sure) that I tried to do this and all of my post and pictures were lost a long time ago.. What ever the mount was I'm pretty sure that its the one I have sitting in my garage. I was able to determine that its definitely not the mr2 mount, though I have no idea where that sucker ended up. I haven't had a chance to measure it yet because I've been trying to retro fit my nova with edis. It would suck if I did use the a20 mount and that's why everything was off. I probably would have just grabbed a new cross member from the junkyard and kept the 83 if I'd realized how close it was.

On the 2.5g I used the ES mount. I swapped all of the mounts from the ES over to the a20, they all bolted right on. I don't think I bothered to compare the side mount, I just swapped it with everything else.

andy

[Ichiban]

So, in light of this information, when I go to test fit again, it will be with the A20 block, A18 tranny and the EL side mount, if it bolts to the A-block. If not, I'll use the ET2 side mount, and modify it to bolt to the car.

[Ichiban]

Today in school after some thought, I've decided to tackle the task of modifying and reworking the 85 hatch front crossmember to fit my 82. I constructed a jig consisting of 2 pins to align the x member mounting bolt holes, and 2 pieces of square tube with 2 holes each to simulate the location of the lower control arms. All pieces were aligned with an 82 crossmember, then welded to the table. My plan is to bolt the 85 crossmember to the LCA reference points, cut off both ends, and reshape them to fit on the pins. The idea is that when the 85 piece fits on the jig, it will fit on the car, and give me the clearance for the exhaust that I need. Pic's tomorrow.

[2ndGenGuy]

Bad ass! I'm very interested in seeing this! Some good fabrication pics would kick ass!

[79cord]

I must admit I would feel more comfortable modifying the cars original subframe to clear the exhaust than the later subframe to fit the car. Just in case the relationship between the body mounting points & suspension mountings -both lower control arms, anti-roll bar & lower trailing arms had changed...(forgot that the Anti-roll bar goes to the rear on 2nd gen).
But I don't know how big a factor the frt engine mount is in your decision.

I remember the frt track was different 2-2.5, so assume from your choice that lower control arms stayed the same & their mountings spread -along with body mtgs & trailing arm mtgs.
Be interesting to see comparison between the two subframes & how big the changes were.

[Ichiban]

The track width is exactly the same between 2-2.5g cars. Because of the jig I constructed, the trailing arms will locate the LCA's in the EXACT same position as the originals. When I'm finished, the new crossmember will bolt to the car just like the old one, but with clearance for the exhaust. When honda designed the new crossmember, they not only curved it to provide clearance, they also mounted it farther forward by about an inch, well, 1.125" according to my measurements. As the rest of the suspension didn't move, they lengthened the trailing arms and changed their angle to compensate.

Anyways, today I got going. I lifted off the 82 crossmember from the completed jig and threw it away. I then fitted the 85 member with bolts to the LCA reference points, aligned the partial transmission member with the center plate welded to the table, and let the actual beam sit on the two locating pins for the body mounting positions. After some rudimentary measurements and a lot of thought, I started cutting. I removed each end by cutting 90 to the centerline, then fitted the ends over the locating pins and traced out the cut edge. I got as far as trimming the excess to get a basic fit, but time ran out before I tacked anything in place.

[Ichiban]

Pictures are in no particular order. My camera fucked up so I got what I got.

You can see where the trailing arms bolt to the LCA reference points on the brackets welded to the table. This setup kills 2 birds with one overkill 12 gauge blast, as now not only does my exhaust fit, but so does the A-series factory mount.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0858.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0860.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0870.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0865.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0862.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0861.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0858.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0865.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0872.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0871.jpg

[2ndGenGuy]

Dude that's hardcore! I think it might just work! So you're using the 2.0g crossmember ends, and a 2.5g crossmember middle section and "radius arms" ?

[Ichiban]

It's all from the 2.5g crossmember, just cut, narrowed and angled. After the gap is welded shut, the weld will get ground flush, and you all will know what "plated to fuck" means.

[2ndGenGuy]

Those ends are from the 2.5g as well? I thought the 2.5 had the 2 bolts in the ends of the front crossmember...

[Ichiban]

Those ends are from the 2.5g as well? I thought the 2.5 had the 2 bolts in the ends of the front crossmember...

Only the 4 door, for some reason.

[2ndGenGuy]

Only the 4 door, for some reason.

Oh, thats crazy. I wonder why that is... I thought the front ends were the same on hatch and sedan, but I guess not. Wow!

[79cord]

Wow, I can see why you wouldn't want to go cutting into the shape of the original crossmember, its much narrower fore/aft than the 1st gen part -which has 2 bolts per side as well. Do you think it might want at least one more mounting point in the center, or on each end - to eliminate the possibility of the frame rocking, now that its mounting is no longer on the members c/line.

[Ichiban]

The transmission member sits flat on the table to locate the center piece, and the two plates welded to the table beside the tranny member locate the c/l. I think this is shown in the 2nd or 3rd pic from the top. As the pieces get tacked in, more measurements will be taken to ensure the exact shape of the member when it is finished.

Edit: I think I see what you were actually asking, I believe the tranny member would prevent the main beam from rotating under load. I was thinking about adding another mount somehow to more evenly distribute the load, but I'm not sure how I'd do it yet.

[PhydeauX]

Oh, thats crazy. I wonder why that is... I thought the front ends were the same on hatch and sedan, but I guess not. Wow!


My 85 hatch has the 4 bolt cross member. Did that cross member come from an 84 or 85? I'm just speculating that there are some differences between the 84 and 85. IIRC when I was cross referencing parts for the integra trans swap way back when I saw some part numbers that were different between 84 and 85. I figured at the the time they were just minor updates for reliability etc. Oh and just an FYI while you have the cross member all chopped up. If things line up like they did in my swap only the dx/lx style exhaust manifold will clear it with out mods. To use an LX-i or aftermarket manifold requires the cross member to be clearanced it slightly. On mine I had to cut the seam off by the exhaust and dent the area in a little. You may want to double check the clearance on yours before you put the finishing touches on it.

andy

[Ichiban]

I thought that the member came from an 85, but now Im not sure at all. Methinks that I'll look it up on Majestic Honda and find out for sure. Right now I'm considering finding a 4 bolt beam and cutting the ends off, and upgrade to the 4 bolt system. I wonder how hard it would be to add a second mounting point to the front of the car?

[2ndGenGuy]

Hmm well if there is a difference between 84 and 85, it's gotta be the hatches only then. My 84 has the 4 bolt crossmember. Or maybe there was a revision half way through 84 or something.

Could even be that the 2.5g in Canada got the 2bolt crossmember since it had the A16.

[Ichiban]

Could even be that the 2.5g in Canada got the 2bolt crossmember since it had the A16.

This could be correct. Majestic Honda shows the same part (52496) for the front beam between 84-85. The illustration suggests the 4 bolt beam, and the same diagram is used for both years.

[2ndGenGuy]

I swear that when I was up at Guy's place you showed me a crossmember with 2 bolts on each end... Or maybe you were pointing out my crossmember on my car. Could that other one be from a 1g??

Not that it matters much, since what you're doing will fix your problem.

[Ichiban]

The 1g front beam is smaller in every way. The one that I'm modding has the A-series mount bolted to it, and it came from a white 85 hatchback from waneta auto recyclers. I pulled it and the tranny beam myself.

[Ichiban]

Oh and just an FYI while you have the cross member all chopped up. If things line up like they did in my swap only the dx/lx style exhaust manifold will clear it with out mods. To use an LX-i or aftermarket manifold requires the cross member to be clearanced it slightly. On mine I had to cut the seam off by the exhaust and dent the area in a little. You may want to double check the clearance on yours before you put the finishing touches on it.

andy


I will be going either LXi manifold to start with, and then aftermarket header for sure. Do you have a pic of how much material needs to go?



I thought this thread would cause quite a stir. Apparently nobody gives a shit about custom work on this site. (other than 2g guys)

[Ichiban]

Today I welded on both ends and managed to keep decent alignment, despite the shitty welder that puts out way too much heat for the thickness of the material. Tomorrow I start with the overplate/gusset to tie it all together. I'm going with 1/16" plate, as it's more approximate to the size of the material and will be easier to weld. Already the piece is rigid as hell, when I'm done it will be rather overbuilt, but that's ok. Pictures tomorrow, if I remember the camera.

I also discovered that my transmission beam for the 85 setup will not directly bolt on to the rear beam with the steering rack, I will have to re-drill some holes, depending on which ones don't line up.

[PhydeauX]

I just had to cut the seam off that was directly next to the exhaust pipe. They were just barely touching, you need a bit of space to allow things to flex. I also gave it a couple of whacks with a hammer for good measure. My digicam sucks and won't take a pic closer then 3ft. I'd need to get it up on a lift, which I don't have, to get a pic.

andy

[Ichiban]

I just had to cut the seam off that was directly next to the exhaust pipe. They were just barely touching, you need a bit of space to allow things to flex. I also gave it a couple of whacks with a hammer for good measure. My digicam sucks and won't take a pic closer then 3ft. I'd need to get it up on a lift, which I don't have, to get a pic.

andy


You are running Pacesetter or DC? I've noticed the primary to secondary flange on the Pacesetter is cocked to one side, causing clearance issues.

[PhydeauX]

I'm running pacesetter, but the flange is above the cross member so it's not the problem. It was the pipes below the flange that were too close.

andy

[Ichiban]

How much clearance did you end up with? I'm thinking I might be able to adjust the position of the engine on the motor mounts to maximize the space, but that flange will probably have to go anyways. I wonder if I can just bend the headers to clear the crossmember?

Anyways, today I was nearly done, when I got the bright idea to lay on another pass of weld where it wasn't really needed. When it cooled, it had the effect of shrinking the overall length of the piece so it wouldn't go on and off the jig smoothly. I cut the piece again directly over the existing weld, and started welding it back together. Crooked. Tomorrow I'll cut it off completely and do it over, properly.

[2ndGenGuy]

Bummer man. At least you can fix it. Excited to see pics. That hatch is gonna haul ass!

[A20A1]

Hrm, if you don't mind welding the A20 flange to the Megan racing header I can give you my project header for a small price. Lots to do but all are doable seeing as you have a welder. I can give you a full list of what is left if you're interested.

Pipes drop a bit low but other then that they hug the motor, I was under the impression the 2G's couldn't be lowered as much as the 3G anyways. It already has damage from being installed on a lowered car. It's probably why I got it so cheap.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/DSCN2434.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/DSCN2398.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/DSCN2404.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/mrh_02.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/mrh_03.jpg

[2ndGenGuy]

Oooh yumm! How can you pass on that, Mike? You've got all the right tools to make it happen! Do it!

[Ichiban]

John, we're both mike (as far as I know)

Mike (A20A1) PM sent.

[Ichiban]

And so the fruits of today's labor;



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0879.jpg

This looks just sweet. Too bad I'm going to plate over it.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0877.jpg



http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0875.jpg

Sorting out the crookedness.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0876.jpg

First overplate completed.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/100_0880.jpg

[2ndGenGuy]

Man that is lookin like a beauty! If another person ever winds up owning that car, they won't even know that you did that. Thats the best custom work if you ask me, the kind that most people won't know!

[Boltgunner]

My Pacesetter buzzes every now and then against the crossmember. Gotta get a touch of heat and leverage in there to open up the gaposis...

[Ichiban]

Well, I finished the piece on Thursday, and right now it's sitting under the car. I won't get to find out if it fits until the car comes back from inspection and I finish the swap.

[2ndGenGuy]

No mock fitting? Do you have to have the engine in for inspection? Or are you going to tow it in?

[Ichiban]

It's going in with the 1602 intact and running, as the car has to be test driven. I'm avoiding the headaches of explaining a PGMFI equipped 82 Hatch with a goofy looking crossmember during th inspection.

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh yeah good call...

It's rediculous what they'll pull your cars off the roads for. And driving drunk is a 24 hours suspension right?

Here, driving drunk is jailtime, car impound, year license suspension, $1000 fine. But you can drive down the road with your front end about to fall off, billowing black smoke no problem.

Just seems kinda wierd how it's the opposite.

[2ndGenGuy]

Bump? Any new progress?

[Ichiban]

The crossmember is done, painted and pretty. Today I'm gonna be pulling the front end of the car over about a half inch with the come-along, in an attempt to straighten out the hood and fender gaps.

[toddnjoy]

i have a 83 accord sedan and it has the EK1 and id like some info on available rebuilt engines or where to get mine rebuilt.

[2ndGenGuy]

i have a 83 accord sedan and it has the EK1 and id like some info on available rebuilt engines or where to get mine rebuilt.

Good luck on that. There's no national reputable shops. The best thing to do is find some car guys in your area, and ask them about some good engine builder. A good builder can build any engine. But some of the guys who specialize in old V8's won't be used to the tight tolerances of the Honda engines. Try and find a guy who speicalizes in Hondas, but not a "speed shop". Like a guy who maybe has worked on or works on really old Hondas back when they were new.

[2ndGenGuy]

The crossmember is done, painted and pretty. Today I'm gonna be pulling the front end of the car over about a half inch with the come-along, in an attempt to straighten out the hood and fender gaps.

So what's new man? Haven't heard from you in a while, and you're not on MSN anymore. What's the dealio?

[Ichiban]

been super busy with the end of school and trying to support myself. Did get paint for the car, but there's still a bulk of work before that happens. As soon as the paint is done, it's all fun again, but I might be moving for work sometime soon.

[Ichiban]

Turns out I'm working in town now, but the Slovenian machine shop boss only pays 11 an hour. I work like a dog but I'll be putting time into the car soon. Gonna drive it this summer!!

[2ndGenGuy]

Cool man! it's a start! Congrats on the new job! Lemme know if you wanna get some shit done on that car some weekend. I'll fly over there and we could get some work knocked out...

[Ichiban]

Wow, my last post was over a year ago in this thread. New developments include:

-Obtained Prelude Si hub flanges (and rear disc brakes as well)
-Have B20A5 Intermediate shaft (from auto, but I know how make it work with the standard.
-Have finally settled on an engine, it's an aluminum block A20 with a funny wide and gold valve cover with plug wires coming out of it ;)
-Having serious second thoughts about using the custom crossmember I fabricated earlier in the thread. I'm thinking goofy exhaust will be the answer.

[Ichiban]

I remember the frt track was different 2-2.5, so assume from your choice that lower control arms stayed the same & their mountings spread -along with body mtgs & trailing arm mtgs.
Be interesting to see comparison between the two subframes & how big the changes were.

It turns out you were right in this regard. I had noticed during fitting the 2.5 g member to the jig, that the angle between the two bolt holes at the end of each radius rod didn't perfectly align with the holes in the jig. I actually checked it a few times with the original x-member, and the jig was correct, just the leading ends of the trailing arms were spread apart slightly. After research, I found out the 2.5 g is in fact 15mm wider in the front than the 2g. I'm sure I can force the radius rod to bend slightly to fit my LCA's, but the 7.5mm (.295") difference per side is also going to affect my plans to use the SE-i axles. I may have to shorten those as well.

I am also leery of using my crossmember due to the thin material and welding. It's critical to steering, locates the front wheels, and transmits most/all braking/acceleration forces to the chassis. It is a prime candidate for fatigue, add more power, geometry changes, aggressive driving and the weight of an engine twisting it out of shape, and it's bound to fail. Not something I want in the mountains with my wife in the car.

79cord, I welcome your input on this thread. 2genguy, I EXPECT you to post up here:cheers:

We'll see what happens:gun:

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh man you had me at that aluminum block A20 thing. I was like WTF. Then I was like OH.

As far as the axles go, remember the guy from Dominican Republic who put the B20A in his 2.5g hatch? He just put the B20A cups on his halfshafts. So why don't you put some A20 inner cups on your halfshafts? Sounds like an inexpensive way to go, and you'll keep your lengths. Though I wonder if the distance from the left mount to the center of the transmission is the same from the EL to the B20A? I think you're going to have to do some test fitting first thing...

Also, sounds like you're already ahead of me! I wish I could ship out your engine ASAP, but it came at a bad time. I am going to be gone to warmer lands until the 15th of December, and I will try to get your engine shipped up to you ASAP when I get back. I'll probably cut down the big box in half and make a little box out of it... It's going to be a painful vacation, all I'll be thinking about is getting home to work on the B20A swap... maybe I'll skip the vacation and just stay home and work on it... hmm!

[Ichiban]

Oh man you had me at that aluminum block A20 thing. I was like WTF. Then I was like OH.

As far as the axles go, remember the guy from Dominican Republic who put the B20A in his 2.5g hatch? He just put the B20A cups on his halfshafts. So why don't you put some A20 inner cups on your halfshafts? Sounds like an inexpensive way to go, and you'll keep your lengths. Though I wonder if the distance from the left mount to the center of the transmission is the same from the EL to the B20A? I think you're going to have to do some test fitting first thing...

Also, sounds like you're already ahead of me! I wish I could ship out your engine ASAP, but it came at a bad time. I am going to be gone to warmer lands until the 15th of December, and I will try to get your engine shipped up to you ASAP when I get back. I'll probably cut down the big box in half and make a little box out of it... It's going to be a painful vacation, all I'll be thinking about is getting home to work on the B20A swap... maybe I'll skip the vacation and just stay home and work on it... hmm!


I already know that the distance from bellhousing face to side mount is longer on the B20A than the EL, at least it is on the A-series, and the cam gears on the B20A stick out that much farther. This shouldn't be too much of a problem, I'll just reorganise that mount, provided the side of the engine doesn't interfere with the frame rail. If I remember correctly, the engine bay of the last 3gee I gutted was actually slightly narrower rail to rail measured at the shock towers than my 2gen.

I have a set of inside CV cups from a third gen I swiped from the wrecking yard. When I test fit them to the EL axles, I found out that the inside diameter of the 3gen cups is actually larger, and the 3 bearings don't sit on the tripod properly. You can't use the 3g tripod either, as the splines are larger in diameter.

Enjoy the vacation. I'll be freezing in this crackhead shithole known as Red Deer.

[79cord]

As another alternative regarding hybridizing driveshafts. The cups & tripod/yokes could be swapped at the shaft if their attachment splines matched... Often they can be forced apart...

1st gen 85-88 Integra might also provide some usefull parts...

Heres some junk dimensions I dug up previously from the Honda UK website that has had some w/shop manuals on various Honda (Including B20 2g Prelude, but not Integra) that gives some short-side drive-shaft lengths of:

'79-81 Accord (& Prelude) 477+/- 5mm (short-side)
3G Civic 471-476mm (short-side)
3G Civic/ CR-X ZC 469-474mm (=, but inner ends varied, on early cars)
4G Civic/ CR-X 481-486mm (short-side)
4G Civic/ CR-X 485-490mm (=)
4G Civic/ CR-X SiR/VTi vtec 463-468mm (=)

Later cars would only be wider so probably not much use.
Probably an assortment of spline patterns between them though.

Assorted front tracks of various Honda for interest:
1st gen Accord 1400mm
2nd gen Accord 1430
2.5 gen Accord 1445
2nd gen Prelude 1470
1st gen Integra 1420
2nd gen Integra 1475
3rd gen Civic 1400
4th gen Civic 1450
5th gen Civic 1475

Interesting to note 1G Integra drivetrains often fitted into 3rd gen Civic (ZC or D16) despite 20 mm track Difference so not sure how thats done?

I have also heard of someone lengthening their 1G Accords lower suspension arms 10mm each side to fit 1G Integra drivetrain... also giving them negative camber....

[Ichiban]

Figured I'd update this thread as it's been going on for a few years. I should really stop whoring John's thread as well!

Thanks to 79'cord again, I'll be using the 1st gen Integra axles for my swap. They are slightly narrower than my factory axles, but as the B20A intermediate shaft doesn't quite "middle" the drivetrain relative to the hubs (it's actually slightly longer than needed) I feel that the shorter axles and some motor mount shimming will be sufficient. Also, internet research has proven the spline count to be as I require, mating the B18A tranny to the Prelude Si hub flanges.

In terms of the crossmember clearance issue, I've reached a conclusion. I'm going to test fit the engine with the original crossmember, and if exhaust clearance is impossible, I'll run the scary crossmember I modified earlier in this thread, until I can fabricate one from square tube based on ideas I stole from Pacesetter and Innovative via the internet. I've even found a likely location on the frame rails for adding an extra mounting bolt per side, with holes pre-punched and everything!

For anyone who cares: The reason I spent so much time modifying a stock crossmember is because I wanted to maintain a stock appearance for the purpose of roadside vehicle inspections. In BC, drivers of older vehicles basically expect to be harassed by semi-cops (pun just realized) who usually pick on heavy transport. These DOT idiots will blatantly make up shit to get your vehicle off the road and in for an inspection, and the sad part about it is that any modification of the undercarriage is illegal. Also, these assholes will make up reasons to fine and tow you depending on their mood.

So, after finding the plethora of aftermarket crossmembers on the net, I'm just going to engineer and build my own....if worse comes to worse, I'll just pass it off as "aftermarket crossmember".

Either way, I feel safer driving around with my wife and friends in a car where a major suspension component doesn't raise questions.

My god this is a long post.

Anyways, gonna be swapping the B20A into my 2.0.0G hatch! First on this site, and anywhere as far as I know!

Few things left to do:

-Get clutch/flywheel
-Pick a starter that works
-Buy axles/wheelbearings
-Press in new bearings and Si flanges
-Fab up front motor mount (rear EL mount fits!?!)
-Buy fuel pump for EFI/run new fuel lines
-Get on with the swap!!

[2ndGenGuy]

Yay good show! You know, I'm not getting hardly any torque steer right now, even with un-equal axles. Why do you say that the crossmember you made is scary? It looks good to me, and the design ideas behind it seem sound to me. Good luck with the 2.0.0G hatch. Can't wait to see it on the road. Lets get some pix now mmmkay? I didn't think you were whoring my thread BTW, I thought we kinda made it a general 2g Accord B20A swap thread for anybody swapping engines. :tongue:

[denhonda]

I've acquired a b18c4 170bhp Civic Vti engine... now that would make my '82 a whole lot quicker! But my plan is just to sell it on for someone else to do a conversion on whatever they choose. Really beyond my very limited capabilities & I don't wanna lose my auto transmission either!

Good luck with your conversion though!

[badbobb]

ok, i know i should go bigger, but if my probs with car go further, im going to just take my old d15 that i had in my rex and just put it in the cord. i dont have money to buy a whole swap. besides, this d15 will be quicker than the ek thats in it now. now my question is this. how much work would be to do a d15 swap? just take the axles, ecu, harness, tranny, engine, and exhaust right? what about mounts? just weld on? right?

[Ichiban]

:banned:This weekend I'll be replacing the front and rear main seals on the B20A, and hopefully fitting up the transmission for good.

I just remembered, I need to machine two bellhousing to block dowell pins, as I lost/never had the OE ones, oh well, machinist anyways...:hsugh:

[2ndGenGuy]

I probably lost them. Or sent them off with the transmission. I never really noticed to be honest. Its gotta be the same size as any other Honda fitting dowel right? You should weld up my carb manifold. I might run those bike carbs later on down the road here, I have been thinking. :) Plus those aluminum tubes were expensive. :tongue:

[Ichiban]

You should weld up my carb manifold. I might run those bike carbs later on down the road here, I have been thinking. :) Plus those aluminum tubes were expensive. :tongue:

You should install it! I spent a lot of time on it!

Got the B20A at least sitting in the engine bay and rolling on the starter. I chopped out the rear mount from a 3g at the wreckers and welded it to my rear crossmember so I could run the 3g style mounts. The side mount doesn't really line up to anything, and the underneath tranny mount is fully disengaged and then some from the rubber piece it's supposed to sit on. Oh well, modify another mount and build a spacer I guess. Did run into some problems though, gonna detail those later when I'm not so chemo'd out, having a hard time focusing.

[Ichiban]

Engine's in, axles installed (2xteg passenger sides) radiator is in, working on wiring now....

[MessyHonda]

nice to hear some progress

[Ichiban]

nice to hear some progress

Yeah, for a change. Filled the tranny with oil today, connected all the heater hoses, after adapting the .5" heater core to the .625" engine connections. Used 4 hose clamps per line, looks stupid. Thermostat was crusty as fuck, threw it back in. Surprise surprise, it leaks. Gonna get a new one tomorrow.

Might actually be running this week. Gotta install the ECU harness, EFI pump, and extra fuel line. Fun fun. hey look a new one:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:gawd they're everywhere...:deadhorse:

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh shit! Just make sure to get some videos man! I wanna see that hatch in action!

[AccordB20A]

mean this will be awesome

[MessyHonda]

what trans did you use?

[Civic Accord Honda]

Vids pics asap

[Ichiban]

I used the B18A welded together bellhousing with an A18A prelude gearbox. Right now it's out in the yard, pouring oil out of the bottom of the bellhousing onto the ground. Also, there's no way the crank pulley will fit. I'm so happy.

[2ndGenGuy]

You're only running an alternator right? No power steering, no A/C? You should be good with 1 groove on the pulley. Maybe machine off the other two? I know it was a tight fit in my car... I have to drop the engine down just to change the alternator belt. I dunno if the EL pulley will fit, but maybe even a pulley with a smaller diameter an only 1 groove if that one is too big around. Possibly an ES/ET pulley, I know those will at least fit the crankshaft snout.

[MessyHonda]

I used the B18A welded together bellhousing with an A18A prelude gearbox. Right now it's out in the yard, pouring oil out of the bottom of the bellhousing onto the ground. Also, there's no way the crank pulley will fit. I'm so happy.

do you have pics? i have a b18a bellhousing but can we use a diferent output shaft?

[Ichiban]

You're only running an alternator right? No power steering, no A/C? You should be good with 1 groove on the pulley. Maybe machine off the other two? I know it was a tight fit in my car... I have to drop the engine down just to change the alternator belt. I dunno if the EL pulley will fit, but maybe even a pulley with a smaller diameter an only 1 groove if that one is too big around. Possibly an ES/ET pulley, I know those will at least fit the crankshaft snout.

I tried both my EL and ET pullies. Neither will fit the B20A crank. I already dropped off the B20A pulley at a local machine shop with specific instructions. It's kinda gay being on disability, but it shouldn't cost too much.


do you have pics? i have a b18a bellhousing but can we use a diferent output shaft?

No pics. How do you mean? Input shaft maybe? Don't tell me that the input shaft is a different size and I didn't notice when I put the tranny together. That would explain why it's leaking into the bellhousing. Fast drip too.

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh right. I had to put the B20A alternator pulley on the ES alternator, and modify the B20A alternator bracket to fit the ES alternator. All because I couldn't swap pulleys. Or maybe I used an A20 pulley. Damnit, lack of fucking documentation!

[AccordB20A]

why the oil leaking did you do it wrong

i used a b18 bellhousing and all the internals from a ES2 prelude gearbox and the casing to make it work

[Ichiban]

why the oil leaking did you do it wrong

i used a b18 bellhousing and all the internals from a ES2 prelude gearbox and the casing to make it work

I dunno. I took apart an ET2 prelude gearbox and slammed it all together. I hope it's just one of the welds leaking a bit. If it's the input shaft then I just soaked a brand new clutch with oil.:facepalm:

[AccordB20A]

well if it all bolted up good it might just be a weld which im hoping for haha

[Ichiban]

Well, I guess you could say it sorta runs. I got spark, and ran it for a few seconds with some mixed 2-stroke gas poured into the intake. Going out right now to weld up the exhaust. :rockon:

Still needs;

-Alternator installed (front of block mounting)
-EFI pump wired/installed/fuel line run.
-Dogbone installed and adapter milled to space over tranny mount.
-Modify drivers side mount (it sits in the pocket pretty tight, just can't get the center bolt through, screw it for now.)
-Multiple engine bay harnesses tied off to at least something, ECU and wiring in cab stashed somewhere.


The list grows ever shorter....

[AccordB20A]

man if i was you id have a a20a carb on there to run that motor till the efi is sorted out

[Ichiban]

It runs now, but barely. I'm thinking it's either cam timing, or something simple like that. No codes on the computer yet. I used a Bosch multi-fit O2 sensor, so hopefully that works.

[AccordB20A]

does it smoke lots or run mint?? i hope to see some videos

[Ichiban]

It fucking runs! Turns out I had both cams 60 DEGREES advanced, because of some nonsense mark on the original flywheel. I can't believe it ran like that.:nuts:

Set the timing back to TDC and it fired up and ran awesome. Brand new plugs in last night, my buddy Steve put the interior back together after I ran the fuel line. First crack of the throttle it stumbled, caught, ralphed out a massive black cloud and revved like a fucking ferrari. :nervous:

After pounding my beer and doing a couple driveway laps to make sure the CV's didn't fall out, I hit the highway. With a 6% uphill grade (pretty steep) I got up to 105 KPH in a little under 400 metres. It sounds fucking MEAN. So does the fuel pump though, damn that things noisy.

Still needs some sort of air filter rigged up, the drivers upper mount needs some machining because it doesn't line up, just sits in the pocket for now, and I beat on a stuck caliper for a while today. But it runs without codes, idles good, sounds unreal and pulls HARD!

If I sound a little screwball, it's cause I've been planning this swap for around 5 years, and last night it finally ran. It wasn't easy, and it's not entirely done, but goddamn, try and wipe this stupid grin off my face!

Oh, and I don't have a digital camera here, I'm leaving the car here this winter, so I have no clue how to get up pic's/vid. John, you should come up this week and video this thing!

[79cord]

Hooray & congratulations! Terrific & exciting achievement.
Didn't realize you actually had it semi-driveable when you said you almost had it running! (You skipped the exhaust / routing / cross-member clearance details.)

[AccordB20A]

mint as. this is a different engine to the one i sold you?

[2ndGenGuy]

Sweet dude! Oh man, I want to come up and see how she goes! That transmission sounds like it's working out great then! I'm so stoked to hear it, I wish mine ran so well! Maybe I should just replace the cams with some B18 cams, and toss in a new oil pump and see what happens...

I should be able to make it up in September. I can't do it this month, I've got obligations every weekend... through the 4th of September...

[Civic Accord Honda]

john mail him your digital camera then i wanna see videos now!!!

[2oodoor]

congrats! and I know that stupid grin feeling and love it

[SZfiftyfour]

:bow:un-fucking-real! Im so jealous.

[Dr_Snooz]

Many congratulations Ichi! Very righteous build.

[Ichiban]

john mail him your digital camera then i wanna see videos now!!!

Yeah, I wanna share that unreal howl with everyone! I got a K+N short ram and filter from Steve yesterday for free, and now the entire downtown turns to look when she clears her throat. I'd also like to see other people do this swap. (esp keep the EFI or multi-carb)


Hooray & congratulations! Terrific & exciting achievement.
Didn't realize you actually had it semi-driveable when you said you almost had it running! (You skipped the exhaust / routing / cross-member clearance details.)

I'm using the modified crossmember and transmission beam from the 84-85 Accord. I installed it, jacked up the car with it and had a bunch of people jump on it and it didn't flex, so I said OK for now. Eventually going to design a heavy square tube version that uses multiple mounting points, but until then will keep an eye on this one.


mint as. this is a different engine to the one i sold you?

Nope, very same one. No discernable smoke at any RPM or load. Does leak oil from the headgasket, but not really much. Everything sounds tight, even though the cams did show some wear. I am having some low RPM issues, it seems to load up when hot unless I drive at WOT everywhere. I bled all the air out of the T-stat housing, and have a new Bosch uni-fit O2 sensor. I wonder if the FPR is bogus or maybe the 1/4 inch fuel return line is causing too much restriction, and loading at idle/cruise? No MIL to speak of, but oil smells slightly of gas.



Sweet dude! Oh man, I want to come up and see how she goes! That transmission sounds like it's working out great then! I'm so stoked to hear it, I wish mine ran so well! Maybe I should just replace the cams with some B18 cams, and toss in a new oil pump and see what happens...

I should be able to make it up in September. I can't do it this month, I've got obligations every weekend... through the 4th of September...

B18 cams are gonna suck. See if you can get the B20A cams repaired or copied. I'm sure these motors are all about the cams.

Unfortunately this weekend I'm going back to Red Deer, school for 2 months, then life goes on. But we should plan something, I want to come back down after school is finished.




congrats! and I know that stupid grin feeling and love it

I still get it every time the tach says 7.


:bow:un-fucking-real! Im so jealous.


Many congratulations Ichi! Very righteous build.

Thanks!

[AccordB20A]

i was hoping that motor i sold you wasnt going to be a dud glad its working out for you

[Ichiban]

I am having some low RPM issues, it seems to load up when hot unless I drive at WOT everywhere. I bled all the air out of the T-stat housing, and have a new Bosch uni-fit O2 sensor. I wonder if the FPR is bogus or maybe the 1/4 inch fuel return line is causing too much restriction, and loading at idle/cruise? No MIL to speak of, but oil smells slightly of gas.



I was still having this problem when I parked the car. Does anyone know what it is? I was thinking back the other day that I might have read the timing marks from the B20A flywheel are different to the A20 flywheel I used. Is this true? Really can't remember.

All I know is the car should run idle/part throttle way better than it does, and I'd like to fix it when I get back to it.

[AccordB20A]

set the motor to TDC on the flywhel and have a look at where the crank pulley key is, if its upright i think that its good. or put a screw driver down a spark plug hole haha

[Ichiban]

I was looking down #1 plug hole before when I was lining it up and TDC seems to be, well, TDC. I'm curious if maybe the distributor is a bit wack, or not advancing properly.

[AccordB20A]

are you using the ph3/pj5 and the B20A dizzy and cam sensor?? maybe go get a b20a5 dizzy and cam sensor to rule that out

[Ichiban]

are you using the ph3/pj5 and the B20A dizzy and cam sensor?? maybe go get a b20a5 dizzy and cam sensor to rule that out

I'm using the PJ5 you sent and the dist/crank and cam sensor from the B20A I bought from Quebec. I swapped them before I knew about the ignitor problem, and your distributor looked kinda rusty inside. I'm eventually going to go with a new B20A5 distributor but I thought it would run for now on what it has. The cam sensors are identical between B20A and A5, yes?

Edit, the car seems to run best when I push the timing all the way advanced, at least within the limited range offered. It barely runs in the middle/retarded, but improves if pushed ahead.

[AccordB20A]

i guess the cam timing is set correctly?? lol both up things on the cam pulleys are up and the marks on the pulleys all line up together and be in line with the head?

[Ichiban]

i guess the cam timing is set correctly?? lol both up things on the cam pulleys are up and the marks on the pulleys all line up together and be in line with the head?

We're wondering about that. We tried a bunch of things, and can't get it perfect. If the exhaust cam is set to flat, the intake came is either slightly ahead, with a bunch of slop in the belt, or obviously trailing by one tooth. With the front of the belt tight and the exhaust cam perfectly flat, the crank is either about 5 deg late, or with one tooth different, 15 deg early. I'm really curious how you guys actually get these to run well?

Still wondering if the MAP or TPS is screwed, given the terrible part throttle stumble and idle issues...

[Ichiban]

Pictures of all this crap at the end of October. If I don't forget my fucking camera.

Gonna try and get it running better, I think a restriction in the return line might be causing rich mixture at idle/part throttle.:nuts:

[AccordB20A]

correct my crx may have this problem too lol

[Ichiban]

So some pictures finally of said engine swap....

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/154831_464860118826_502773826_5548908_3534930_n.jp g

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/151029_464860438826_502773826_5548912_3258755_n.jp g

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/150324_464860358826_502773826_5548910_3863348_n.jp g

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/guyhatesmycar/73870_464860188826_502773826_5548909_1034429_n.jpg

[A18A]

having the alternator up front looks pretty cool

[Ichiban]

Yeah it wouldn't fit in the back.

[AccordB20A]

mean now for some video please i wanna se how fast this fulla is

also get rid of that black box!

[2ndGenGuy]

Fuck yes! That engine just looks so natural in there. Should have come that way from the factory!

[Ichiban]

It needs to run moar better. Alls the black box does now is hold the MAP sensor up.

[2ndGenGuy]

Your problem is perplexing. Maybe it's a timing issue? The flywheel have the proper timing marks on it? Isn't it an A20 flywheel or some shit? Wonder what the difference in base timing is between A20 and B20A...

[Ichiban]

yeah A20 flywheel. I had set the timing initially with the B20A flywheel, but to the wrong mark. It was shit covered so I couldn't see the right ones. Ended up setting it to the A20 f/w.

[2ndGenGuy]

Did you try advancing or retarding it just for shits and giggles?

[Ichiban]

Sure did. Funny noises resulted.

[Ichiban]

I wonder if the advance/retard in side of the distributor is pooched. I'm gonna replace it with a B20A5 dizie anyways. Also, I wonder if I got the right igniter unit as well? Would it make a difference other than not running? NZ ppl post a pic of yer igniter bocks.

[AccordB20A]

theres no such thing as an advance/retard part in them dizzys, it just tells the ecu when the engines at certain angles and the ecu looks at its map and the vacuum/tps and says lets advance/retard the timing. even tho the engine runs fine their could still be a fuckup somewhere tho eg a dizzy sensor or cam sensor etc, Maybe you should run it on a 1g teg dizzy and cam sensor and rule out ignition being the reason its doing a weird running thing?

[Ichiban]

Yeah, it runs unreal when it's cold for about 5 minutes, but I don't like running it hard until it's hot. When it's warm it bogs real hard, idles way rich, misses under part throttle and loads up. Sometimes WOT cleans it up and it pulls hard, but usually it surges, stumbles and bogs.:nuts:

Don't know if its ignition timing, cam timing or fuel at this point, or one problem influencing the ECU and causing numerous other resultant problems.

It has a new Bosch O2 sensor, and it seems to idle better with my sucky buddy sucking hard on the line to the MAP. Seems more vacuum makes the computer lean it out. So maybe low vacuum caused by wrong cam timing? Or too much fuel? We had to open the idle adjust screw quite a bit to get it to idle at all, so maybe excess fuel made us open up the intake to get it to idle which drops vacuum and confuses the MAP and ECU which makes it run worse?

Also when it's hot, sometimes I open the throttle to pull away from a light or stop sign and it stumbles and backfires (intake).

So something isn't right, and I'm sure it's one factor causing most of the problems.

(yay first post on foundation membership, gonna go check out the other features now!!)

[Dr_Snooz]

Your build is freaking awesome, so forgive me for not having followed it more closely. If I'm repeating something you've already done, just bear with me. If you put a vacuum gauge on it, what does it look like? What's your oil pressure doing? What do your spark plugs look like? Are they fouling?

It sounds a lot like you're having timing issues. You can set timing by ear and also with a vacuum gauge. Try timing it differently to see if it changes anything. Funny noises at idle just might go away when you're driving and give you a better driving experience. Where did you get your injectors? Are they old and possibly leaky? Most of the FI related sensors and controls will flash a CEL if they have a problem. If you aren't getting any codes, then I wouldn't worry about them too much. If you're really concerned about them, you can run through the diagnostic procedures in the manual for all of the suspect components just to be doubly sure.

[rideordie12]

So i got to thinking (might not bea good thing) and how alot of problems come from the forward mounted exhaust motors.... Would it be much easier for a new d series or k series motor to be fabbed up to fit since they both have rear facing exhaust manifolds, or would it not work because of the axles and hubs?

[Ichiban]

Might be easier, I thought that the d-series still had front exit exhaust.

[rideordie12]

I believe the new d series like in the fits and whatever else have them and they are reversed also

[2ndGenGuy]

That "New D-Series" is the L or R or something. Yeah, rear exhaust like the K though. Makes more sense to me since the air comes in the front and goes out the back, in the direction the car is going...

[Ichiban]

theres no such thing as an advance/retard part in them dizzys, it just tells the ecu when the engines at certain angles and the ecu looks at its map and the vacuum/tps and says lets advance/retard the timing. even tho the engine runs fine their could still be a fuckup somewhere tho eg a dizzy sensor or cam sensor etc, Maybe you should run it on a 1g teg dizzy and cam sensor and rule out ignition being the reason its doing a weird running thing?

Kk I get it, the cam/crank sensor tell the ECU then it thinks a bit and triggers the coil via the ignitor bocks when it decides it wants spark. All the distributor does is tell the ecu when to fire injectors, and which cylinder gets spark.

I got quoted a price of $350 for a new B20A5 distributor, not cheap. Anybody know of cheaper, quality parts available?

I replaced the return line barb with one with a larger orifice. Though I didn't get to road test the car, it still bogs and misses at idle. It doesn't seem to leak down fuel pressure or flood when it's shut off, but the fuel pressure gauge is the only way to figure that one out.

I need to get ahold of a timing light as well.

[AccordB20A]

yeah or OBD1 the cunt and tune it instead of spending 500 dollars on a dizzy

[Ichiban]

I'll still need a distributor.

[2ndGenGuy]

My 81 doesn't have a distributor. :D

[Ichiban]

My 81 doesn't have a distributor. :D

Shaddup!

Why aren't you online right now?

[Ichiban]

So, in light of this information, when I go to test fit again, it will be with the A20 block, A18 tranny and the EL side mount, if it bolts to the A-block. If not, I'll use the ET2 side mount, and modify it to bolt to the car.

Sure fuckin changed that plan :nuts: I got all nostalgic and started reading this thread from the beginning, it's amazing what I didn't know and jumped right into this bloody thing. Was going to have a carbed A20, eventually ended up with an EFI B20A years later. Who knew?

[2ndGenGuy]

LOL. I think we did the same thing. I was like, fuck this A20 swap, might as well just go all out and get a B20A! Then when I told you what I was doing, you agreed. :) Lots of learnin' on this one! I also learned, make sure you've got good oil pressure before driving to Portland and back.

[Ichiban]

Oh shit yeah! I still need to get my gauges hooked up, I wonder if there's a spot for the temp sensor to go...

Hey did you ever figure out what caused the oil pressure to die?

[2ndGenGuy]

Not yet, I'd probably have it back together if the 81 hadn't decided to take a shit on me like 2 months later...

[AccordB20A]

still waiting for video of the 2gee b20a of mikes getting a raping

[Ichiban]

still waiting for video of the 2gee b20a of mikes getting a raping

She's parked in wintertime, those pic's were of the day before snow happened...

[AccordB20A]

indeeed i guess i have to wait till its winter over here to see em haha

[Ichiban]

Going back next wed for Nana's funeral. Gonna fire it up and hopefully take some pics.

[AccordB20A]

good to hear. john needs to make his one work

[SA6]

everybody can you tell me what type of honda engine that fit with 2geez ('plug and play')?
how about b16, b20, or f20b?
thank you

i want to replace my slowly a16a engine :D




sorry for my bad english :tongue:

[AccordB20A]

A20a3

[SA6]

A20a3

only a series that can plug and play with 2geez?

[AccordB20A]

even then you have to swap a lot of crap around have a search theres a few members that have done it on here

[2ndGenGuy]

B20A will fit too, but you gotta figure out what axles to use. You can check my swap thread, or Ichiban's, though his setup is a bit different. A20 is going to be the most direct, as your A16 transmission will bolt right up. Also, does your car really have an A16A in it? You sure it's not an ES or EZ or something?

[SA6]

B20A will fit too, but you gotta figure out what axles to use. You can check my swap thread, or Ichiban's, though his setup is a bit different. A20 is going to be the most direct, as your A16 transmission will bolt right up. Also, does your car really have an A16A in it? You sure it's not an ES or EZ or something?

im not sure :o
it maybe ez or a16. what is different between them? later i will check it. sorry im noob hahaha..

thanks for your answer

[SA6]

i have checked it. it is ez2 hahaha..

if i swap it with b20, i only modify the axle, right?

2geez, 3geez, and 2nd gen prelude have same motor mount, right? any another type of honda that has same motor mount with 2geez?

will b18 fit too?

thanks

[Christofur]

heres my question is an a20 intake mani the same as a es3 intake mani?

[2ndGenGuy]

heres my question is an a20 intake mani the same as a es3 intake mani?

Not even close

[Christofur]

Not even close

:sad2:

[Ichiban]

i have checked it. it is ez2 hahaha..

if i swap it with b20, i only modify the axle, right?

2geez, 3geez, and 2nd gen prelude have same motor mount, right? any another type of honda that has same motor mount with 2geez?

will b18 fit too?

thanks

Not really. The prelude rear crossmember is at a different height than the 3g accord one, so the motor mount brackets are different. The Prelude ET2 front mount is also longer than the A20/B20 front mount, this is the one I had to use in my car.

B18b,c,etc engine is hung from the ends, not front and back like the A20/B20A are. Totally different.