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PhydeauX
09-04-2002, 01:34 PM
Well, this is as good a spot as any to start this thread.

I got the trans today. So its officialy started.

[pic is gone]

Someone had asked in the original thread about the linkages. They are similar, but the shift rod doesn't attach to the trans in the same manner. That doesn't matter though because the shift linkages are in the bell housing half of the case, so the accord parts should be retained.

[pic is gone]

I didn't get too much done. I split the case and just took a quick look around. All the teeth are there and there were no big hunks of metal stuck to the magent so thats a good sign. The shafts are still together so I don't know about the syncros yet, I'll probalby just replace them all anyway.

This is how I left it.

[pic is gone]

It looks alot like the accord trans from this angle, then it looks alot like my corolla's trans too. We'll just have to wait and see what happens when I get the accord trans out.

A few notes so far.
The gen3 accord axles should fit right into the dif, unfortunately thats not the case for the prelude/gen2 accord axles. Good news for the rest of you, but bad for me. I should be able to swap the dif, or atleast the spider gears to solve that.

One more thing thats going to come out of this. By the end I should know if the phantom grip 902 will work in the accord trans. :)

andy

Thank comcast for the loss of the pics, they keep changing my damn ip.

88LXi68
09-04-2002, 01:55 PM
bout time someone is going to try.

A20A1
09-04-2002, 05:07 PM
I'm getting goose bumps.
:D

Vanilla Sky
09-04-2002, 05:16 PM
andy, you kick ass... if it fits, i'll be getting one

Derick

Site
09-05-2002, 05:19 AM
Your car is SO hybrid!

PhydeauX
09-11-2002, 08:14 PM
Heres a quick semi complete cross refrence list of parts between the teg 85 lude and accord.



85 prelude 87 accord 87 integra
Carbed DX LX-i

Forks
1-2 shift fork 24221-PC8-920 24221-PC8-920 24221-PC8-920
3-4 shift fork 24211-PC8-J00 24211-PC8-J00 24211-PC8-J00
5th shift fork 24201-PB6-910 24201-PB6-910 24201-PB6-910
5th fork shaft 24271-PC8-930 24271-PC8-930 not listed, but is diferent from the accord's

Differential
diff bearing 91005-PC9-008 91005-PC9-008 91005-PC9-008
diff houseing 41310-PC8-921 41310-PC8-621 41310-PG9-600
diff side gear 41221-PC8-912 41221-PC8-040 41221-PC8-040
diff pinion 41341-PC8-030 41221-PC8-030 not listed
pinion shaft 41321-P21-A00 41321-P21-A00 41321-P21-A00

Counter Shaft
shaft 23220-PC8-662 23220-PC8-671 23220-PG9-600
needle bearing 91101-PC8-J01 91101-PC8-J01 91101-PC8-J01
ball bearing 91004-PC8-J01 91004-PC8-J01 91004-PC8-J01
second bearing 91106-689-008 91106-689-008 91106-689-008
first bearing 91105-PB6-008 91105-PB6-008 91105-PB6-008
first gear 23421-PB6-010 23421-PB6-010 23421-PB6-010
second gear 23432-PC8-325 23432-PC8-J20 23432-PG9-305
third gear 23471-PC8-910 23471-PC8-J21 23471-PG9-600
fourth gear 23481-PC8-000 23481-PC8-J21 23481-PG9-600
fifth gear 23461-PC8-960 23461-PC8-J21 23461-PG9-600
3rd 4th spacer 23917-PB6-000 23917-PB6-000 23917-PB6-000

Main shaft
shaft 23211-PC8-962 23211-PC8-J21 23211-PG9-010
ball bearing 91002-PC8-J02 91002-PC8-J02 91002-PC8-J02
needle bearing 91103-PC8-018 91103-PC8-J01 91103-PC8-J01
third bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
fourth bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
fifth bearing 91104-634-008 91104-634-008 91104-634-008
third gear 23442-PC8-315 23442-PC8-J20 23442-PG9-305
fourth gear 23451-PC8-000 23451-PC8-J21 23451-PG9-600
fifth gear 23581-PC8-960 23581-PC8-J21 23581-PG9-600

Reverse
idler gear 23540-PC8-J01 23540-PC8-J01 23540-PC8-J01
23540-PC8-000 (2 parts listed for lude)
shaft 23261-PC8-000 23261-PC8-000 23261-PC8-000


It covers most of the important parts. Of course most of the gears dont match and the counter and main shafts due to the diferent ratios. All of the bearings match, which is good. The diff side gears match between the accord and teg, so the axles should swap. The prelude ones don't, but I can just drop the lude ones in the teg diff and everything should be fine.

andy

shepherd79
09-12-2002, 04:24 AM
what about the bell housing? does it look the same?
you may be able use your old 5 speed case, with integra guts in there. plus that way you will rebuild it.

PhydeauX
09-12-2002, 08:02 AM
Well that was the whole point of the cross refing, along with me being bored while I wait for the parts to get here. The guts should swap with no problem. The bell housing has to be from the accord, no way a d-series bell houseing is going to bolt to an a series motor. The rest of the case doesn't matter, but since the whole thing has to come apart to get the bell houseing off might as well use the accord case.

andy

PhydeauX
09-13-2002, 09:06 PM
Well, I made a little progress today. I got a rebuild kit on order. Thanks to funstick for this info. Its coming from rockwell standard gear, or something like that (keep getting the name mixed up). All the brass, the sliders, the shaft, and the dif bearings. All that for less then honda sells one syncro set for. Their number is 1-(800)-227-1523. Write that down, its the only place I could find that can get the brass and sliders for a reasonable price.

While I was at it I installed a pacesetter quick shift. Once again a 3g part installs into a 2g no problem. Except for the fact that pacesetter cant make a single part with out something being fucked up on it. I had to shave a good deal off the set scerw to get it to sit flush with the ball and not bind. It feels smooth now but maybe setting the ball 3/4 the way up the shaft was a little overboard ;). It takes popeye arms to get the current trans in gear with this thing. Actually slowed my shifts down, considerably. That should all be rectified soon. The phantom grip should be here within a week, and I should have my trans parts by friday. Lets hope for next weekend for the fun part to begin.

andy

PhydeauX
09-18-2002, 12:58 PM
Delays Delays Delays.

Well it turns out that one of the shifter forks went on backorder. No clue when that is goin to come. Also the rebuild kit from rockland came today. I was under the impression that the kit was to contain new sliders, but it only had the block rings. That is going to toss a big wrench in things, the sliders are the only parts that really need to be replaced. I have them looking for sliders for me now, the only thing I can do is keep my fingers crossed.

andy

A20A1
09-18-2002, 01:15 PM
so I'm confused... the teg trans won't fit on our engine in it's entirety... you'll need accord parts to make it work?

PhydeauX
09-18-2002, 01:27 PM
You put the teg parts in the accord case.

andy

Sean
09-18-2002, 01:38 PM
andy i think i have some good sliders

PhydeauX
09-19-2002, 03:30 PM
All the back order parts are in, just waiting on the phantom grip. It should be here by tomorrow.

andy

GreenMachine
09-24-2002, 07:50 PM
So basically you ripped the guts out of a 2nd gen teg and put in in the 3rd gen accord tranny .. impressive. Is it a 2nd gen accord tranny or 3rd that's getting modded.

PhydeauX
09-24-2002, 08:50 PM
The guts are from a first gen teg tranny. The case is a second gen prelude (same case as a 3rd gen accord more or less). The whole thing is going into a second gen accord with a third gen motor. Confused yet ;).

andy

Sean
09-25-2002, 06:22 AM
no your just starting to get interesting. i guess that like the

34 ford 3 door coupe my nieghbor has with the 95 corvette motor,a ford 65 van rear (9 inch) all wheel disc brake form a lincoln town car. yeah it gets interesting LOL. thats the beauty of hot rods.

PhydeauX
09-25-2002, 08:52 AM
The phantom grip came today, now I just have to get the sliders checked. I'll know for sure soon, but I would place money on the phantom grip #902 fitting the accord diff just fine.

andy

87pimpsterdocious
09-25-2002, 02:29 PM
How much did that lsd cost you?

PhydeauX
09-25-2002, 03:53 PM
I got it from Quick 60 (http://www.quick60tuning.com
). Send them an e-mail and see what they can do, their catalog isn't that great. The kit lists for 300 direct from phantom grip (www.phantomgrip.com). Its not a full diff, just a conversion. Basically 2 metal plates and some springs that fit in your old dif. Its the cheapest thing out there though, the next being OPM's (http://www.opmmotorsports.com/) dif. The OPM dif is similar, but has clutchpacks so it doesn't wear out the dif housing. I've never heard anyone complain about phantom grips not lasting, but as long as it lasts half as long as the OPM then its worth it in my book.

andy

PhydeauX
09-28-2002, 01:07 AM
I forgot my digicam so your not getting any pics of this part. I've also been working on it for 8 hours strait... till almost 5am... so bear with me I'm past my limit.

Both transes are apart, all the new bearing and syncros are on and the diff is completed. The phantom grip was a cinch to install and should work fine with the stock accord dif. The integra shafts are slightly longer then the prelude ones, the prelude case wont work, the integra one has to be used.

I'm also going to have to double check my cross ref sheet that I posted. It seems that the ball bearing on the counter shaft and the needle bearings on the input and counter shafts are diferent between the teg and prelude. That makes no diference for the ball bearing on the counter and the needle on the input, since the teg case has to be used anyway they fit fine. I just kept the needle from the lude on the counter shaft and it seems like it will work fine. I'll have a better idea once I put it all together.

andy

PhydeauX
09-28-2002, 08:50 PM
Ok, light day today. I can barely move from over doing it last night. Make sure you don't work untill you can't stand up just to realize that you have an hours worth of cleaning up to do before you can leave.

Anyway I spent tonight undoing most of the fuckups that I did last night. I was wrong about the needle bearing on the counter shaft. The prelude and teg have the same bearing, but the kit came with the wrong one. I don't really have the luxury of buying a new bearing, this has to be out of the bay by tomorrow night so I just poped the old bearing back in, it still feels good. That solved and putting the counter shafts back together the right way solved a slight misalignment that I was haveing. Funstick had warned me of this, but I did it anyway, if the 3rd/4th slider is upside down then the fork wont hold it up high enough to disengage 3rd gear. I also had one gear on upside down. Its all better now though. I also gave everything a good cleaning. I managed to get alot of crap in there last night too. The tranny is now 90% assembled. I just have to bolt the case together and put 5th gear in. It goes into all the gear and everything seems to work. I'd say this is 100% doable now, but its a royal pain in the ass. Well hopfully I'll know tomorrow if it was worth it.

andy

Sean
09-28-2002, 09:50 PM
i did warn you about the 3-4 slider. that thing is a pita. i ussually use a punch to mark it with a dot so i know which side is up when i goto reassemble it.

PhydeauX
09-29-2002, 10:02 PM
@#$%@$%#%@%#@$%#$%@$%


Well its together and in the car... but something is ratteling and round and it wont go into 4th... I hope I didn't put that slider back on upside down again... I didn't put much power through it and I only drove it around the block. I also managed to get pulled over twice in that time. Ok, its a suburban block and a long one at that so it was about a mile.. but still... I was driving under the speed limit the whole time. Once was cause I had my head out the window trying to listen to the rattle. The other was just to "check my papers".

I'm not looking forward to taking the trans out again and I may wait and see if I can get my hands on a light flywheel to put in while I'm at it.

One last thing, I had to use the teg 5th. It's thicker then the ludes and the lude's gear wont engage. Some creative shimming could solve that, but I didn't have the right shims and I wanted to get the car back running. That comes in handy right now as the teg's 5th is just about where the lude's 4th was.

andy

A20A1
09-29-2002, 11:23 PM
Sounds like you had fun...

I didn't realize sticking your head out the window was against the law? heck I do it all the time...

Jims 86LXI HB
09-29-2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by A20A1
Sounds like you had fun...

I didn't realize sticking your head out the window was against the law? heck I do it all the time...

Some how I don't want to know why.:huh: :lol :lol

PhydeauX
09-30-2002, 09:51 AM
I didn't get any tickets, just pulled over. It just added insult to injury. I'm driving along cursing that I didn't put it back together right (I have a pretty good idea of what I think I did wrong now though) and I get pulled over twice. Fortunately not knowing how to rebuilt a tranny properly is not a crime.

andy

PhydeauX
09-30-2002, 01:05 PM
Ok, I drove the car back to the shop and parked it. It's a pain with out 4th gear and I don't want to mess anything up driving it the way it is. It still grinds 3rd gear. I'm not sure if that could have anything to do with me not putting the thing back together right. I'm almost positive that I put the 4th gear collar on backwards. I might have to invest in a new 3rd gear set.

Anyway on to why this post is about. I decieded what the hell and I got on it a bit on my way back to the shop, there were no cops around this time. I didn't do any standing starts. From a roll in first gear it doesn't feel too much diferent. It felt like only one tire was spinning though. A hard shift into second got a good amount of wheel spin goin. At first it felt like both were going and the front started to slide, then if felt like one grabed and then other just a second later. It also felt a bit stronger in second. It still grinds third so I couldn't get a good solid abusive wheel spinning shift. Third is alot closer to second and I feel its just about where it should be. I didn't have to wait for it to get back up into the power band to start pulling. Soon as I let the clutch out it was pulled back into the seat, smileing the whole way. No 4th gear still :(. I would like to have the lude 5th back, I don't do that much highway driving though so I'm not really going to complain.

Once I was on the main road I happend to look over and saw a buddy of mine in his pos 6cyl camaro. I looked over, waved, dumped it in second, and mashed it. The wheels didn't break loose so the phantom grip must be doing something. It just hooked up and went, almost felt like I was in first on my old trans. Left him in the dust. A quick shift into 3rd and I was doing 60 in a 40 zone with him well behind me. On thing that I had always disliked about the car is the lack of pull it had in 3rd, thats rectified now, and I think it was worth it. That has me motivated to pull it back out and get it right. I sent a mail to Aasco (http://www.aascomotorsports.com) to see if they will make me a flywheel. Hopefuly they still have the stuff out from doing jteuton's and can get it to me quick. If its less then a month then I might wait on the trans, if not then I'm going to probalby pull it back out this weekend.

andy

BoredRec
09-30-2002, 09:10 PM
So if everything goes smoothly with the flywheel and rearranging the guts again, when do you plan on posting the official how-to on this project? This sounds like an excellent mod that could easily help 1/4 mile times on the track.

Sean
10-02-2002, 11:41 AM
if all else fails andy i ll be available on saturday to come up and help out.

BoredRec
10-02-2002, 06:07 PM
Another question I had...what year trans did you use? Or does it matter. I know that the 86-87 Integra differ a bit from the 88-89 Integra (intake manifold, distributor, other crap) but not sure if they used the same trans for all 4 years.

Sean
10-02-2002, 06:23 PM
86-89 teg. i do believe is what andy came up with. anything with a zc motor basicay.

PhydeauX
10-02-2002, 06:45 PM
I just looked in the parts catalog and they are diferent, but I don't know how much. A quick peek give them the same counter shaft and case, but a diferent main shaft. I'd bet that either one would work. Maybe there is some revision to the main shaft on the later modles. All the info that I've dug up on them points to all the zc integra tranines to have the same ratios. I don't know about the crx zc trans. I had some info on it but I've forgoten it. I believe that it had a 4.25 final drive as compaired to the tegs 4.20. I looked at so many web pages though that the info I though was irrevelant to what I was doing is just a blur.

The trans that I used is from an 87. I believe that it worked fine and my lack of 4th gear is just a minor mistake in assembly. I have a replacement for the wrong bearing that came in the kit on order, it should be in friday. I haven't heard back from aasco about them making me a flywheel yet so I'll problaby do the trans this weekend.

andy

dhcarss
10-03-2002, 07:41 AM
I have a prelude trans that the 5th gear is gone, I mean you can sit at a red light in 5th with the cluth out and it is like you are in N! any Ideas on how bad this could be. I havent taken it apart yet. no grinding though.

PhydeauX
10-03-2002, 08:29 AM
Its a common problem with the accord and prelude transmissions. I've never taken one apart and looked at it, but if you fill it with the teg guts then it will solve the problem ;). I believe that the problem is usualy caused by the splines wearing out, but I'm not sure.

andy

dhcarss
10-03-2002, 11:31 AM
im on the interstate alot, and I like my top end, would it be possible to use the teg gears up to 4th and then use the 5th from the prelude or would that be to much of a jump?

PhydeauX
10-03-2002, 02:31 PM
Yes and no. The teg's 5th gear is thicker then the prelude's so things won't line up. You can shim it to make it fit though. I wanted to keep the prelude 5th as well, but I don't have any suitable shims. The drop won't be too much of a problem. You'll have to run it up a bit higher in 4th but thats about it. It'll feel kinda like going from 3rd to 5th, thouhg not quite that far. The teg in 5th tachs almost 3,000rpm at 60mph.

andy