benefits of nitriding?

[newaccorddriver]

what are the benefits of nitriding versus cryo treating? im considering getting my pistons nitrided since theres nobody in the city that does it anymore, so nitriding seems to be an option for now

[Cheeseburger]

http://www.onecryo.com/onecryo/wwwboard/messages/268.html

[race12001]

they both work off the same principals if you research heat treating you can find every thing you need to know about differnt metals and at what temp they do what

[Oldblueaccord]

Can you do it to aluminium? I thought it was a flame hardening done to steel. I ll try to look it up I have a book here at work.


wp

[newaccorddriver]

they both work off the same principals if you research heat treating you can find every thing you need to know about differnt metals and at what temp they do what

so it would be wise to strenghten the otherwise weak pistons going in my block?

[race12001]

well theyre not week htey have been case harden im sure but if you realy want then hard you will have to normilze them then harden them then aneal them then you would freeze them theres a lot fo money invoved in realy harding them unless tou pushing 30psi of boost or somthing like that you pistons are fine

[newaccorddriver]

well theyre not week htey have been case harden im sure but if you realy want then hard you will have to normilze them then harden them then aneal them then you would freeze them theres a lot fo money invoved in realy harding them unless tou pushing 30psi of boost or somthing like that you pistons are fine


dont replacement pistons blow up after hitting 15psi or so? when i told everybody the parts i was using to rebuild my motor, they said i shouldnt be pushing more then 7psi since my pistons are NOT OEM, but just a replacement that is OEM specs

[Oldblueaccord]

http://metals.about.com/library/bldef-Nitriding.htm
http://www.matter.org.uk/steelmatter/manufacturing/surface_hardness/7_2_4.html
A one minute google search.
To who ever :
Pistons in cars are made of aluminium.
Stock pistons are almost always cast.
Custom hi-proformance pistons are almost always forged.
There is pros and cons of each process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston
this tells the tale
wp


so it would be wise to strenghten the otherwise weak pistons going in my block?
I think if your planning to run 15 psi i would look into pistons that can handle that kinda power level . Anyone of the custom manufactures could tell you what piston they would recommend for that application.
As far as what "stock" pistons can hold I have no idea. There quite a few "turbo" people on here that have blown up 3-4 engines IM sure they can or could tell you if they were so inclined. :devil:
wp

[forrest89sei]

If you have money it sounds like a good Idea!

Do it to motor and Tranny!


1 Million Mile Automatic FTW! jk

[newaccorddriver]

If you have money it sounds like a good Idea!
Do it to motor and Tranny!
1 Million Mile Automatic FTW! jk


mines a 5 speed now, and im curious as to what it would cost, if it costs 25% of what forged would cost, then ill go with forged. if it costs like under $100, then ill consider it an option

[race12001]

If you have money it sounds like a good Idea!
Do it to motor and Tranny!
1 Million Mile Automatic FTW! jk

you couldnt do it to an automatic because they have clutches in them with a coating on htem that would burn up during the heat treating process

[RamThis]

Nitride treatment is actually a molecular coating that soaks into the metal's outer surface to a predetermined depth. I think it's usually like .005 or .010 or so deep.

Cryo treatment is the processing of metal at very very low temps. They ramp the temp of parts down to -360F (I think that was the temp I read in the article) over an 8 hour period and hold it there for a certain time to cold soak the part, then slowly ramp the part's temp back to room temp over another 8 hours. This is supposed to change the molecular structure of the metal, relieving all it's inherent stresses and hardening the metal. They have shown machining and cutting tools to last three times longer in industrial applications after being cryo treated. Alot of Taxi and Police cars use brake pads and rotors that have been cryo treated and get 2-3 times the life out of their brakes because of it.

This is all from memory of course. Some of my numbers may be off but the basic info should give you an idea of the priciples involved..... more research would fill in my gaps and inconsistancies......

[forrest89sei]

Nitride treatment is actually a molecular coating that soaks into the metal's outer surface to a predetermined depth. I think it's usually like .005 or .010 or so deep.
Cryo treatment is the processing of metal at very very low temps. They ramp the temp of parts down to -360F (I think that was the temp I read in the article) over an 8 hour period and hold it there for a certain time to cold soak the part, then slowly ramp the part's temp back to room temp over another 8 hours. This is supposed to change the molecular structure of the metal, relieving all it's inherent stresses and hardening the metal. They have shown machining and cutting tools to last three times longer in industrial applications after being cryo treated. Alot of Taxi and Police cars use brake pads and rotors that have been cryo treated and get 2-3 times the life out of their brakes because of it.
This is all from memory of course. Some of my numbers may be off but the basic info should give you an idea of the priciples involved..... more research would fill in my gaps and inconsistancies......


Ramthis = Metal Expert :thumbup:

[skycam_313]

so which one is better?

[forrest89sei]

so which one is better?


Cryo treatment

[RamThis]

Here is the article I had printed out some time back about cryo processing. VERY interesting read....

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/Heat20Treat20Progress.pdf

And some other articles they have...

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/news.html

[AccordEpicenter]

honda nitrides their cranks from the factory, thats why your not supposed to have them turned. On a 15psi boost level, the pistons are def the weakest link, yet, i would say that should be upgraded to a forged piston, cast pistons even with all the coatings and treatments are still gonna break up sooner or later at high boost.

[newaccorddriver]

honda nitrides their cranks from the factory, thats why your not supposed to have them turned. On a 15psi boost level, the pistons are def the weakest link, yet, i would say that should be upgraded to a forged piston, cast pistons even with all the coatings and treatments are still gonna break up sooner or later at high boost.


didnt you run 12PSI daily on stock bottom end? im not sure if anybody knows this yet, but this is a trial run of everything. this setup, is meant to use megasquirt(hopefully by this summer), and quite possibly turbo this summer, or next summer. when this bottom end blows(if it does), then thats when the spare block i have from elijah would be put to use at i would be using forged pistons and such in it. i dont need to have an insane amount of power or boost, but i just want that extra little kick in a summer car

[AccordEpicenter]

13psi with some spikes at times to 17psi. If you run good managemant with a good tune (CONSERVATIVE) the stock bottom end should be fine. When my motor finally went i had a spun crank main and chewed up main bearings probably due to damage before i boosted the motor anyway, and my pistons and headgasket were fine
(135000 miles, and you could still see the crosshatch in the cylinders)

[MessyHonda]

yum.....13psi on stock...that is crazy...i wish i had the money...damn broke 3gee drivers...LOL

[forrest89sei]

Here is the article I had printed out some time back about cryo processing. VERY interesting read....
http://www.nitrofreeze.com/Heat20Treat20Progress.pdf
And some other articles they have...
http://www.nitrofreeze.com/news.html


WOW!

i want that done to my whole car!

lol

[MessyHonda]

WOW!
i want that done to my whole car!
lol



lol that would be a 3gee tank....lol