3geez potential problem

[djcslice]

Lets start off with some background. I am at least the third owner of a 1987 dx with 172,XXX. This car has seen more climates that i have. It has been up and down the west coast, Belgium, Singapore, Minnesota, Wisconsin. And as long as i have owned it, taken decent care of it. When i do drive it, its either infrequent short trips or even less frequent long trips to and from school. This year a lot of parts have been going, most specifically rubber parts (i.e. bushings, hoses, tubes, ect) along with other parts such as suspension and ball joints. A couple of days ago i looked at the oil cap on my engine and noticed a whiteish cloudy residue on the inside. I have a fairly good idea of what it is, water vapor condensing in the oil. Not a good sign. Let me specify that the car has never overheated and i am diligent about changing oil and checking fluid levels. Knowing that this car has water vapor in the engine, and knowing that the car hasnt overheated and subsequently the block cracking, i have come to one opinion on the situation, the headgasket is failing. It is well known that gaskets dont live forever and that they can go, but it seems a little odd. BTW the same thing happend on my last accord, a 92 with 224,XXX, so i am familiar with the simptoms.

The question i have is, is this for sure the head gasket? Could water vapor get into the engine via the air intake (mind you i live in Minnesota and the average temp in the last two weeks has been in the low singles to teens) and through the carbuerator? Is there another way for water vapor to get in (i.e. another leaking gasket, backdraft from the exaust, ect.)?

here is an image of the oil cap after my car heated up for 10min. Its huge, i know, but thats so you could get a detailed look at the substance. Opinions would be nice. I am thinking that because i am in college its time to let her out to pasture.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/djcslice/oilcap.png

[MessyHonda]

i know people say not do it but seafoam helps you take out the water out of the crankshaft.....i would check it your headgasket is going...do a compression test.

[hotdoghogie]

i know your prob exactly... one of your previous owners jerked of into the dipstick hole too much... he had good aim if u ask me

[2ndGenGuy]

I suppose it's possible that it's coming in through the PCV system... How does the oil look after you drain it?

[djcslice]

havent drained the oil, i will take a look sometime this week though

[russiankid]

How does the oil on the dipstick look?

[shepherd79]

your head gasket could be fine.
the condensation can build up inside the block because of the weather. If you make short trips and don't let the engine warm up all the way, water won't evaporate and it can cause major problems.
in short, don't make trips that last less than 5 minutes, if you make them, let the car idle for a while.
I grew up in Siberia so i know what the cold weather can do to your engine. back home we let our cars idle almost all days to keep the condensation out and keep the car warm.

drain the oil. check the coolant for oil. it would be brown clouds or oil film.
If the coolant is fine and the oil looks brown or milky, change it fill up with new oil and drive it for a while. keep the engine warm. after 300 miles or so, check the oil. make sure it is clear or starting to turn dark color.

[cygnus x-1]

Make sure the PCV valve isn't clogged. The PCV system is what keeps moisture from building up in the crankcase.

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[Ichiban]

Make sure the PCV valve isn't clogged. The PCV system is what keeps moisture from building up in the crankcase.

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Yeah, check the PCV. Then take it out for a good half hour-hour long romp, get it nice and hot, and check again. Chances are, the white goo will be gone.

If it is making you really paranoid, you can do a compression and leakdown test, as well as a cooling system pressure test.

ALL of my vehicles will precipitate out water in the oil if run for short periods in the cold. Simply running the engine up to temp will drive off the moisture.

Also, what does the oil look like on your dipstick. Unless it's chocolaty brown or white, you're fine.

[djcslice]

i have pressure in the coolant, i will check the oil and coolant in the next 48 hours. i tried to replace the pcv valve earlier this year, but i couldnt find it. Does anyone have a diagram of where it is. I have the dealer work manual and couldnt find it in there. It is a carbuerated engine.

[cygnus x-1]

It's in the middle of the intake manifold. Disconnect the maniflod vacuum line and pull the valve out.

http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Engine-build/PCV-Valve.jpg


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[shakakan]

Doesn't look like a coolant issue to me. I would drive the car for a good long warm-up drive and recheck for that moisture. It is normal for water to condense there before the car is up to temp. Another route would be to have an oil analysis done to check for coolant. That is the only way to check for the smallest of coolant intrusion into the oil. Also, have a peak at the cooling system for loss.

[djcslice]

there was no coolant or any sign of coolant in the oil.

To get my car road ready, i need to replace the front pads, rear shoes and the outter tie rods.

The tie rods are fused to the knuckle and i am having a heck of a time getting them off. I have been working on the brakes and the front pistons will not go back in. I am wondering what would cause this to happen, to i need to drain the break lines dry and work from there? Is there some trick i dont know about?

I am also having a heck of a time getting the pcv valve out. Do you guys have any suggestions?

[fraza]

that amount of condensation is normal, my mate had his coil cap totaly covered in that white shit, looked like his engine was running on mayonaise, but he wiped it away and it never came back, its just a normal thing with jap cars, but if u wipe it away and it comes bak a week later then yer u got a head gasket prob

hope this has helped

[cygnus x-1]

I think you have nothing to worry about as far as the water vapor in the crankcase goes. Doesn't look like you really have that much in there. It would still be a good idea to replace the PCV valve though. It is probably difficult to get out because the rubber tube it fits into is hardened from age. You just have to pull really hard on the PCV valve and hope it doesn't break. It's likely that either the valve or the tube will break though. The valve will be a few dollars from any auto parts store. The rubber tube you have to get from Honda, but it's not expensive.

For the brake calipers, you may have to use a C clamp (or something similar) to push the piston back in.

For the tie rods, get a tie rod puller. DO NOT USE A PICKLE FORK! A tie rod puller looks like this:

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/ccr/ccr20021001tr.html

Most auto parts stores will have them. When using the puller be careful not to tighten it too much or it could break. What I usually do if the ball joint doesn't pop out right away is to tighten the puller tight but "not too tight", then rap on the knuckle with a hammer. Don't worry, you won't break the knuckle. The force from the puller and the vibration from the hammer should break it free. If that still doesn't work you can try heating the spindle with a torch but I doubt it will take that much persuasion.

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