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View Full Version : '89 LXi, a couple of problems.



interim
02-08-2007, 02:05 AM
Before I begin, the Check Engine light has been coming on since I bought the car, and I don't know why it does that because I am not given to a high technical understanding of how the motor can be fixed, or even how it works. I'm just an average low-understanding car guy, with a higher understanding that Joe Schmo.

Alright. So here are the issues I'm currently experiencing, to help you guys narrow down the cause of the problem (or maybe diagnose more).


Oil leaking.
Check engine light turns on after hard acceleration, or RPM over 4500 (50/50 chance).
Idle bounces from 800-1300 slowly (rrrrmmm...rmmmm...rmmmm) sometimes, usually in 3rd or second gear near the downshift range of RPM.
Slightly jittery idle in park or drive (squeaks annoyingly, but quietly, when in drive), less noticeable in neutral.
A little bit of oil around the edges of the spark plugs.


As far as I can tell by the problems with my LXi, I am conjecturing it has something to do with my oil pressure, but I could be wrong as I am not a big mechanical type.

Recently, I had my oil changed by a friend's stepfather, who used to be an auto mechanic. I had experienced a problem with a loss of power going up the hill to Paradise, CA from Chico, CA (about 8mi., all uphill at a low-medium grade). At first I thought it was my new transmission acting up, so I let off the accelerator, then pushed it back down slowly to the floor-- I continued to lose speed. I dropped from about 60mph down to maybe 35-40, when the car downshifted, hit 5800rpm, and shifted back into the next gear... at which point I was able to accelerate normally.

When I got to his house, I noticed a somewhat loud tapping noise coming from the engine compartment, and a little bit of gray smoke. I left the engine running and popped the hood-- the gray stuff was oil burn-off. I got Mike (the stepfather) to come take a look at it, and he said the tapping was the sound of one of the lifters hitting the bottom of the engine compartment. At that point, we decided to check the oil -- 1 1/2 quarts. WAY too low. I was a little embarrassed that I had forgotten to check it recently, but had decided it didn't need checked as I'd had it replaced under 3,000 miles ago.

Well, the oil was black. I should mention now that it had maybe a 10-15% content of Rislone. Anyhow, we dumped all the oil, which was rather gummy around the bolt he removed to drain the oil. It ran out in a way which seemed to me like a disgusting sort of liquid onyx, rather resembling nothing I would usually compare to motor oil. We replaced it with 4 1/4 quarts of 10w40 (I THINK.), Pennzoil, mineral grade. He said synthetics are bad for older motors, and I'm inclined to agree. Seems to me synthetics would get into places it doesn't belong.

So, that was about a month ago. Recently, I noticed splotches of oil underneath where my car was parked right around the area where I think the oil pan is (that I can recall from looking under the car while it was on the jack). I think that maybe there is a leak from the bottom of this area, but I am not an expert. Could this be causing the problem?

Thanks for any help.

shepherd79
02-08-2007, 06:51 AM
ok well lets start with one problem at a time.
yor oil problem can be any leak. since you are getting oil around spark plugs your valve cover gasket is leaking. clean around the valve cover and other major oils spots. where does the oil spot appears on the back or front of the engine? front could be valve cover, back could be a few things: 1. oil filter base o-ring gave out and it is leaking, 2. PCV valve hose is craked and it is leaking. so check them and make sure you have enough oil with you at all times.

as far as your idle goes, well it is related to ECU. something is trigering ecu to go into loop mode.
here is how oyu can check for codes.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26342

PS. you may want to check your tranny oil level. it sounds to me it may be low.

ghettogeddy
02-08-2007, 07:05 AM
well if u get it fixed by the 17th bring your 3g to the nor cal photoshot your about 2-3 hours away

interim
02-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Lol, I would but she's still too dirty for a photoshoot. :)

ghettogeddy
02-08-2007, 02:10 PM
its not the look of the car that matters just showing up is fun lol plus my car dident always look good

MessyHonda
02-08-2007, 02:10 PM
Lol, I would but she's still too dirty for a photoshoot. :)



wash it and wax it...she will look hot

interim
02-10-2007, 02:44 AM
Yeah except for the sunfaded moulding, the ripped weather-stripping on the driver's side, the broken driver-door window motor (stuck in the 90% closed position), and bargain basement rims. If I can figure out how to plug the leak though, I'll show up if it's on a weekend... If it's a weekday, can't make it-- I work 3PM-12AM every day. :<

Anyway. How can I figure out EXACTLY where the oil is dripping from, without being able to jack up my car? I'm pretty sure it's dripping out from the area surrounding the bolt the plugs the bottom of the pan. How much would it cost to replace that whole thing?

MessyHonda
02-10-2007, 05:29 AM
Yeah except for the sunfaded moulding, the ripped weather-stripping on the driver's side, the broken driver-door window motor (stuck in the 90% closed position), and bargain basement rims. If I can figure out how to plug the leak though, I'll show up if it's on a weekend... If it's a weekday, can't make it-- I work 3PM-12AM every day. :<
Anyway. How can I figure out EXACTLY where the oil is dripping from, without being able to jack up my car? I'm pretty sure it's dripping out from the area surrounding the bolt the plugs the bottom of the pan. How much would it cost to replace that whole thing?



nothing a can of flat black cant fix. its your car....at least take some pride in it...oil pan gasket can be done in your drive way...takes like 3 hours tho

interim
02-10-2007, 05:31 AM
Well. I am very unexperienced in actually fixing these things, and though I love my baby, I am very much not rolling in cash right now, and can barely afford to keep replacing the oil that drips out. One of the lifters has started tapping constantly now, and I'm worried the motor might be in trouble with a sound like that.

I'd like to replace the oil pan, but I live in an apartment complex right now, probably can't afford the part, and don't have a jack. Anyone else live around here? I could probably do it with some physical assistance, in my parents' driveway. They live on the other side of town. In any case, where's this meet?

Oldblueaccord
02-10-2007, 04:46 PM
Well your relative needs to stay on the golf course and leave your car to some one else. Our cars do not have lifters.There an over head cam design so there is no lifter. The ticking is prolly not a good thing. The valves do need to be adjusted periodacally since theres no lifter to take up the slack(he will understand that). Kinda like on old dodge or Chevy muscle car with a solid cam.

Since your low on funds I would not worry to much about small oil leaks and more on getting it running correctly. Do a search on faults codes here or in the efi section and see if it has a code. keep it full of oil at all times dont let it go a quart down thinking it will be ok.

When you change the oil next change the little metal ring on the oil plug(bolt) it helps it seal and wear out in a few changes. Titghen the valve cover bolts a little thta might help with the leak. If you get real frisky change the spark plugs out with NGK's like the sticker on the hood says There about 1.50$ a piece.

wp

interim
02-10-2007, 05:18 PM
Hmm, thanks a lot for that input. I'll call my father right now and ask him about that, maybe I just misunderstood what he said. Also, I'll check the error codes when the rain abates.

Oldblueaccord
02-10-2007, 05:36 PM
Also if it passes smog in Cali it can't be that bad running unless it happened all at once.

Couple small cheap things is to clean the air filter out or at least check it along with all the other fluids as well. While your under the hood look for loose wires bad wires fluid leaks etc.

If you want you can goto the public library and get the Chiltons book on our car or just copy what you need out of it its free as well. There a free manual on here as well if you can get it to download.

As the far as the oil leak the best way for me is to buy a UV dye kit that you add to your oil and then use your dad's old black light from the 70;s :rockon: and look for where it comes out from that cost $$ but its about the most effective way to locate a leak.

EDIT:

http://www.amazon.com/FJC-Motor-Transmission-Power-Steering/dp/B0002KKMAQ

wp

w261w261
02-10-2007, 06:10 PM
On any old car, fluid levels are so important to keep checking. If you don't, disaster will follow. On the oil pan gasket, forgeddaboudit. It's a bigger job than it looks (note the crossmember underneath of it). The valve cover gasket, however, is simple. I strongly suggest you use a Honda OEM gasket. Some of the aftermarket ones are crap, and it's frustrating to do all the work and still have it leak.

I betcha that the oil leak under the engine is where the oil filter housing attaches. You should learn to change your own oil, because it's cheaper and while you're down there you can check things out, like the CV boots. For openers, when you have the oil filter off, feel with your fingers where the filter gasket goes up against the housing. If there's a buildup of crud there, it can leak. Take a rag and rub it real well until its smooth metal. That way, the filter gasket will get a good seal.

Where you are *probably* leaking, though, is between the housing where the oil filter screws on and the engine block (the "oil filter housing"). This housing also contains the oil pressure switch, with a spring. It's held on by 4 bolts, and has a small figure-8 shaped gasket, which is probably dried out and leaking. It's a job for a mechanic, if you don't have much experience. Impress upon the guy doing it, that he had best be v careful about removing those mounting bolts, because if he breaks one, there isn't much room to remove the mess and retap.

Then there's always the rear main engine seal. Don't ask.

If you are monetarily challenged, just check the oil every time you fill up. Leaks can be a pain, as some of them drip down on the exhaust and smell things up. But they won't kill you, unless you let the oil get too low.

You didn't mention the coolant level, but you need to check that regularly too. It's waaaaaay down there in that bottle by the battery tray. The bottle gets dirty, and it's hard to see through it, so you can either look at it from under the car (get a pair of ramps), or clean the bottle (remove the battery, the battery tray, then the bottle. Use some phosphoric acid to get rid of the rusty coating on the inside - milk stone remover, "The Must for Rust," etc). You can also take the top off the bottle and use a dipstick to determine the fluid level inside. Just don't let it get low, because if you overheat badly there goes the head.

interim
02-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Yes, I do check the coolant and oil levels often, and I have to keep filling the oil, and I think the coolant leaks a bit as well (though, honestly it may just be burning off faster than it should be). That, or I don't know too much about where the levels should be for coolant, but it has only been 'too low' once that has been noticed.

As for the question of smog-- it has -not- passed smog, because the check engine light comes on. I haven't even taken it in to have it tested, because someone told me if the check engine light comes on, that it will not pass. I don't know if this is true or not but it worries me...

w261w261
02-11-2007, 08:01 AM
The usual reason cars don't pass the smog has to do with the cat needing to be replaced. Sometimes, if it is close, you can buy a can of that "guaranteed to pass emissions" stuff and see if it works. New plugs, etc help too.

Buy a bottle of cooling system leak fixer (Barr's is good), and follow instructions. If the leak isn't bad, that should fix you up.

interim
02-12-2007, 03:02 AM
Okay, two more things.

The check engine light isn't -always- on, it only comes on after hard acceleration, long-sustained acceleration, or maintaining an RPM over about 3500 for too long (usually the highway or long straights of empty, open road).

Also, I haven't taken it in for smogging, yet. I was under the assumption that the light may come on while they're revving it, and that I would fail.

Oldblueaccord
02-12-2007, 03:29 PM
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26342

check what code it is. I would bet is the EGR lift sensor.


wp

shepherd79
02-12-2007, 03:53 PM
have you checked the codes?
and yes, smog people will fail your for having Engine light on.
get the code and fix the problem and you should be all good.

interim
02-12-2007, 03:57 PM
And the code will show up, even though my check engine light never comes on when I start my car?

interim
02-12-2007, 04:30 PM
Well, it says Vehicle Speed Sensor, but I already knew that wasn't working. <sigh> How do I fix that? How much does it cost? (Sorry for asking so many questions, but I don't know who else to ask.) I imagine once I get that fixed, it will be saying something else because of the oil leak. :P

MessyHonda
02-12-2007, 04:48 PM
its an easy fix that is on the transmission....it has 2 power sterring lines going to it.. you can take out out from the junk yard real easy

Oldblueaccord
02-12-2007, 07:23 PM
Yes your speedometer cable goes into it down by the transmission. Make sure your cable is firmly seated in it. If it comes and goes the cable could be loose. Not sure if this effects the running of the car I have never proved it has either way.

Unhook the battery for a few minutes to reset the code drive it and see what it gives you again.

As far as your cat being bad you might smell a rotten egg smell from it if its clogged. A slight smell after a good full throttle run is normal.


wp

interim
02-14-2007, 12:06 AM
I did just notice right now, as I got home from work, that the exhaust (or perhaps some burnoff from the motor) smelled a little like eggs. It didn't smell quite rotted as you said, but more like a badly overdone poached egg. Is that bad? If so, then the list is...


Check speedo- cable.
Check Cat.
Replace spark plugs.
Oil flush and change.
Replace oil pan nylon washer and bolt.


Anything else?

interim
02-16-2007, 12:23 AM
<facepalm>

Over the week, I had noticed that a lot of oil was leaking (also, I confirmed it all seems to be leaking directly from the area surrounding the bolt in the oil pan), and that the tapping noise had increased in volume. So, I added oil. I had a brain fart... such a moron. I didn't read the dipstick right, and so I added four entire quarts of oil. (Yes, you can call me stupid now.)

So. The car ran fine on the rest of the way to work, and on the way home that night. But today, it ran fine about 3/4 of the way to work, then I pulled up to a stop light, the car's exhaust noise dropped about two octaves in depth; the idle shuddered down to about 400, and the car stalled. I was able to start it back up and drive the rest of the way to work, but it nearly stalled every time I dropped below 10mph, and in fact, when I parked in my spot at work, the car died, leaving the battery and oil lights on.

I am pretty sure the problem here is that I put too much oil. Feeling like a complete moron, I just checked my dipstick and it has two little holes in it near the bottom, with the oil level going about 3 and 2/3 times further up the dipstick, than the distance from the first hole to the second. Utterly. Stupid.

Oldblueaccord
02-16-2007, 10:56 AM
Whew!

well get the right amount of oil into it when you can.

As far as your list I think your fine. Hope fully you can get it running good.

The oil plug gasket is actually aluminium that I get from the dealership. I dont know what autoparts place sells them.

I would get it not to show any codes then worry about the cat last. The cat gets poisioned from running the car rich it just makes it not function right. Most of the time when a car has a code it goes it to a safe running mode which is rich but the car drives runs and will get you around. Problem being that most nornal people dont know this and just keep trucking on it till the car just croaks.


wp

interim
02-17-2007, 01:31 AM
Well, I'd like to have joined y'all for the Norcal 3g photo shoot, but I need to perform some basic maintenance tomorrow, and I don't believe I'll be able to make it.

MessyHonda
02-17-2007, 01:37 AM
well the all cali meet is coming up....chico......that is like 3 hours from me cuz my friend goes to chico...she is home this weekend tho.

interim
02-17-2007, 06:03 PM
Well, if anyone's ever in Chico, hit me up. We can have lunch at Jack's or something.

MessyHonda
02-18-2007, 12:59 AM
Well, if anyone's ever in Chico, hit me up. We can have lunch at Jack's or something.



too bad you could not make it to the meet we had....i had fun.

interim
02-19-2007, 04:17 PM
Seems like that wasn't the only problem-- I think I've damaged something seriously. Now, the car sort of sounds like a turbo diesel V8, and if I let off the accelerator after accelerating, the car stalls. It heats up fast, burns off oil and puffs gray smoke from the exhaust. UGH, I am such a moron.

interim
02-21-2007, 02:15 PM
Well, I just had a guy look at it-- pretty sure I hydro'd it. :x Cylinders #2 and #3 aren't firing, so he's thinking it's the ... head gasket, I think he said.

Accord88LX
02-21-2007, 02:18 PM
Well, I just had a guy look at it-- pretty sure I hydro'd it. :x Cylinders #2 and #3 aren't firing, so he's thinking it's the ... head gasket, I think he said.
ouch that sucks...

interim
02-22-2007, 12:32 AM
Yeaaaaaah, just a bit. Thankfully the motors on these cars aren't too expensive, so I can just pick up another somewhere I guess. I don't imagine trading it out for another car that old is going to do me any favors. :) Time to learn how to fix cars, I guess. Lol.

interim
03-03-2007, 05:16 PM
Well, I threw up a thread (http://3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=746085#post746085) to see if anyone might have a motor for me. Doubt it, but hey. :P Maybe some of you junkyard hounds can find me some new parts or something? Of course I don't expect you to, but hey, hoping is hoping. :P

2oodoor
03-03-2007, 05:46 PM
Yeaaaaaah, just a bit. Thankfully the motors on these cars aren't too expensive, so I can just pick up another somewhere I guess. I don't imagine trading it out for another car that old is going to do me any favors. :) Time to learn how to fix cars, I guess. Lol.
Hey, no use getting another used motor, at least now you know what you got. The head gaskets blow on these type cars all the time, it is no really big deal. Just my opinion.

interim
03-04-2007, 01:48 AM
Really? I mean, it seems to me like that would be a super huge problem, wouldn't it. I don't know a whole lot about technical engine stuff... so I imagined that would be a huge problem?

interim
03-13-2007, 07:00 PM
*bump?*

Blkblurr
03-14-2007, 06:21 AM
What he's saying I think, is it's not that hard to fix.

interim
03-14-2007, 07:43 PM
Hmm. Well, the motor has some oil spots on it in a couple of places... so I wonder if maybe it is slowly going to have more problems, if I think I can just pick up a head gasket set and do that replacement?

ilikevtecs
03-14-2007, 07:47 PM
as far as your idle goes, well it is related to ECU. something is trigering ecu to go into loop mode.
here is how oyu can check for codes.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26342
PS. you may want to check your tranny oil level. it sounds to me it may be low.

i have an ecu for you interim 20 plus shipping...

interim
03-15-2007, 09:23 AM
I am pretty sure the ECU is not really the problem. There are minor oil leaks from different parts of the motor. They're not major-- there is just oil on the outside of it. I could pick up that head gasket set, get that all replaced, replace the belts and hoses, and plug the speed sensor back in behind the dash.

Blkblurr
03-16-2007, 04:21 AM
These engines usually develop oil leaks from the valve cover gasket, the camshaft seals, the pvc filter box return line to the oil pan, the oil filter base gasket and the oil pan gasket. I think I got them all.

interim
03-16-2007, 05:50 AM
That's actually incredibly useful. Thanks a lot, I'll take that list in when I take it for a checkup and eval.

w261w261
03-16-2007, 11:38 AM
These engines usually develop oil leaks from the valve cover gasket, the camshaft seals, the pvc filter box return line to the oil pan, the oil filter base gasket and the oil pan gasket. I think I got them all.

Mine was leaking from the oil filter gasket. Enough crud had built up on the base over the years that the gasket couldn't get a good seal. I rubbed it well with a cloth and it cleaned up well.

Blkblurr
03-16-2007, 12:37 PM
There is an odd shaped gasket on the bottom of the base that the oil filter screws into that get brittle and leaks. You need to remove the oil filter base and change the gasket.

interim
03-16-2007, 04:37 PM
Hmm. On my vehicle, even with the washer on and it ratcheted on as tight as possible, the screw on the oil pan still leaks oil at the rate of a drop at least once a minute. Ideas there?

Blkblurr
03-19-2007, 04:40 AM
Are you sure it isn't the oil pan gasket? Look to see if the oil is coming from above the drain plug by wiping the oil pan down and the watch the oil come back. If it is the drain plug leaking I would look for damage or scratches to the plug or the oil pan mating surface at the drain hole. Use some gasket sealer when you put the drain plug and washer back on.

cygnus x-1
03-19-2007, 07:29 PM
Get a new filler plug, they're cheap. There is a washer on there that wears out over time and starts to leak. Any auto parts store will have them.

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