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TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-12-2007, 02:30 PM
I found timing belt here in the us that will work on the B20a it off a 89 PEUGEOT 405 1.8L i think that how you spell it the belt is made gates the (P/N T188) it has 133 Teeth and it 25mm wide the one off the stock B20a is 133 teeth by 24mm wide so it will work here some pics
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_260_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_261_full.jpg

Look what UPS bring me my gasket kit SWEET
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_262_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_263_full.jpg

ZackieDarko
02-12-2007, 03:04 PM
nice find

teck
02-12-2007, 03:27 PM
sweet

mkymonkey
02-12-2007, 03:35 PM
how the hell did you figure that out? do you sit at autozone looking through parts and comparing? i didnt even know they let you do that shit lol


anyway good find maing

forrest89sei
02-12-2007, 03:36 PM
Nice Find!

:D

carotman
02-12-2007, 03:48 PM
Ah!, I've been trying to find such a belt for ages. This is great info.

I got spare OEM honda ones so I won't need this but this is really a nice find.

The ONLY important part now that can't be found here is the oil pan.

guaynabo89
02-12-2007, 04:40 PM
Ah!, I've been trying to find such a belt for ages. This is great info.
I got spare OEM honda ones so I won't need this but this is really a nice find.
The ONLY important part now that can't be found here is the oil pan.

ah that ones simple........custom alum high capicity. :D


ok now i might be a little slow today but what the hell is a pojo?


peugot?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-12-2007, 04:41 PM
Ah!, I've been trying to find such a belt for ages. This is great info.
I got spare OEM honda ones so I won't need this but this is really a nice find.
The ONLY important part now that can't be found here is the oil pan.
I can get the full gaskets kit here in the us for 160.00 +shipping

A18A
02-12-2007, 05:12 PM
wow good find :thumbup: im with monkey, how did you find that out?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-12-2007, 05:46 PM
how the hell did you figure that out? do you sit at autozone looking through parts and comparing? i didnt even know they let you do that shit lol


anyway good find maing
I called gates with a gates JDM P/N i had for a gates belt and thay look at what thay had for the us market and found the gates T188 was the same as the JDM belt so i went and got one and it works.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-12-2007, 05:48 PM
ah that ones simple........custom alum high capicity. :D
ok now i might be a little slow today but what the hell is a pojo?
peugot?
It is a French car with a 1.8L motor

guaynabo89
02-12-2007, 05:50 PM
and its called a pojo?

Ive never heard of it.

MessyHonda
02-12-2007, 05:56 PM
and its called a pojo?
Ive never heard of it.



yup i tried to google it and nothing came up...spelling is wrong i bet.

bullard123
02-12-2007, 06:11 PM
How much does the belt cost? Or would it be better to use the H23 timing belt.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-12-2007, 07:27 PM
How much does the belt cost? Or would it be better to use the H23 timing belt.
it cost me 38.00 and it would better the the H23 belt

snoopyloopy
02-13-2007, 07:01 AM
woah, where did you get that?!

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 08:51 AM
woah, where did you get that?!
I get it through my work if you need one let me know it 160.00 +shipping.

thegreatdane
02-13-2007, 09:35 AM
Guaynabo is right, it's "PEUGEOT" and yes that's french and yes it's a shitty but unfortunately also a popular brand.

Good job on the find!
And I dont think this has been brought up before but you can also get the B20A water pump in the US. The 3rd gen prelude 2.0SOHC B20A3 engines use the excact same water pump as the B20A. Part number: 19200-PH3-000

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 10:11 AM
Guaynabo is right, it's "PEUGEOT" and yes that's french and yes it's a shitty but unfortunately also a popular brand.

Now that funny that a shitty car but it has the timing belt that all of us here in the us need so bad.So far i been lucky i found the timing belt and thr full gasket kit here in the us.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 10:30 AM
PEUGEOT 405
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Peugeot_405_rear_01.jpg

thegreatdane
02-13-2007, 10:39 AM
That's a "505" that one and is hella fugly

carotman
02-13-2007, 10:39 AM
you were able to find the gasket set through a US store?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 12:15 PM
you were able to find the gasket set through a US store?
One of the importer i use for my job also a distributer for foreign auto parts thay are like a hub for parts here in the us and they have just over a thousand them in stock here in the us.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 12:16 PM
That's a "505" that one and is hella fugly
Aman to that

carotman
02-13-2007, 12:35 PM
One of the importer i use for my job also a distributer for foreign auto parts thay are like a hub for parts here in the us and they have just over a thousand them in stock here in the us.

They have an online store or something?

I'm sure a few guys would like to buy them. Do they carry other B20A parts?

snoopyloopy
02-13-2007, 03:54 PM
One of the importer i use for my job also a distributer for foreign auto parts thay are like a hub for parts here in the us and they have just over a thousand them in stock here in the us.
ok. when i get my b20a(s), i'll hit you up for a set.

EX-ileAccord
02-13-2007, 04:15 PM
Sweet! I need to replace mine and I diden't have a clue where to get one

bullard123
02-13-2007, 04:28 PM
Guaynabo is right, it's "PEUGEOT" and yes that's french and yes it's a shitty but unfortunately also a popular brand.
Good job on the find!
And I dont think this has been brought up before but you can also get the B20A water pump in the US. The 3rd gen prelude 2.0SOHC B20A3 engines use the excact same water pump as the B20A. Part number: 19200-PH3-000

I thought that the B20a waterpump was internal?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-13-2007, 04:53 PM
They have an online store or something?
I'm sure a few guys would like to buy them. Do they carry other B20A parts?
thay don't have a on line store and all they carry is the gasket for the B20a no other parts for it i ask him.He not suppose sell it to me but sins buy upwords 20grand from each month he does me a favor.If you go to the auto parts store and order it it would cost you just over 200+shipping they mark it up that sucks.So if any of you b20a guys need them i will sell them at what i pay for them 160+shipping i don't think shipping would be more then 6 to 10 dollars by UPS any where in the us.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Carotman add this timing belt to the parts list for the b20a (GATES TIMING BELT P/N-T188)

thegreatdane
02-15-2007, 11:11 AM
I thought that the B20a waterpump was internal?

The waterpump is driven by the timing belt. The oilpump is internally driven.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-15-2007, 08:09 PM
I thought that the B20a waterpump was internal?
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_269_full.jpg

Cheeseburger
02-15-2007, 08:27 PM
wow sweet!

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-16-2007, 06:10 PM
yes it is

A20A1
02-22-2007, 01:25 PM
Guys see this site? http://www.honda-oz.org.au/home.html

I found it trying to find belts and such. They have spare parts for sale and belt listing for Dayco and Gates.

also this used engine seller

http://www.parsausedengines.com/honda.html

Not sure if it has been posted before.

russiankid
02-24-2007, 09:41 AM
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_269_full.jpg
Where is the oil pump then?

TWOLOUDNPROUD
02-24-2007, 11:16 AM
Where is the oil pump then?
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_273_full.jpg

TWOLOUDNPROUD
11-08-2007, 06:55 PM
Update if you want to look for this timing belt at you local part store this what you need to know (1990 PEUGEOT 405 MI16 L4 1.9 Liter FI DOHC ) That the right timing belt for the B20a JDM.

2oodoor
09-17-2008, 07:40 AM
Guys see this site? http://www.honda-oz.org.au/home.html

I found it trying to find belts and such. They have spare parts for sale and belt listing for Dayco and Gates.

also this used engine seller

http://www.parsausedengines.com/honda.html

Not sure if it has been posted before.

They are showing a B20A prelude engine 86-88 in stock ! (?) webiste shows current today's date

TWOLOUDNPROUD
09-17-2008, 08:39 AM
They are showing a B20A prelude engine 86-88 in stock ! (?) webiste shows current today's date
The gates (T188) works fine on the B20a. I have it on my B20a and it works fine.

The stock Honda timing belt is on top and the gates is on the bottom.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_260_full.jpg

2oodoor
09-17-2008, 09:53 AM
thanks that is why I was looking at this thread, I have to take the crank pulley off and it never has been off so it is being a bear. (doing the water pump) so I may as well put on a belt. I was going to ask if the pew joe belt was still current information. Is that a commonly stocked item I dunno.
My post above was for the link, that importer has a B20A in stock according to the site. 2nd gen lude which is the correct one for an Accord.
Edit: every parts store is saying that one is only available factory direct, 3-5 days minimum. I should have ordered it already. ahhhh
Edit: I notice you have ACG on there, and did you change the crank pulley? That set up still used the OEM B20A belt correct?

2oodoor
09-18-2008, 05:31 AM
From Lotus information, apparantley the same belt too. Looks like a Nissan belt or even possibly Ford could work with further investigation. article next....
A Gates Rubber Co. T-188 is a 133 tooth HTD timing belt that will work on 9XX engines 1986 onward. I'm not sure if the Gates T-188 is the same as the Gates PowerGrip HTD belt that is the Lotus B-prefix HSN belt. Or what the appropriate change interval would be for the T-188. The safe interval would be to treat it like an early, pre-California belt until you can confirm otherwise.

Gates T188 Cross-Reference applications:

Lotus 910 HC, 910 HCI, 912 HC, 920 - 1986 onwards.

Peugeot 405, 1991 1.9L DOHC

Nissan Maxima VG30E SOHC V6 engine after August 1994
(Maxima, Pathfinder, 1987-88 200SX & 1984-94 300ZX non-turbo).

In the US/ Canada, just order a Gates T-188.

UK-owners have reported getting no where when asking for a Gates T-188, but advise that asking for a 5168NS works (NS = Non Standard). The belt that's delivered often shows up with the following long part number: 5168-58133-1-209DS. "5168" is the main identifier portion of the number.DS on end of part number indicates Made in Scotland. It's a T-188.

The Nissan Maxima belt reference is for the VG30E SOHC engine as used in Nissan Maxima, Pathfinder, some? Pickup Truck, 1987-88 200SX and 1984-94 300ZX non-turbo. It uses a 133 tooth timing belt that will also fit on Lotus 9XX engines. However, like the Lotus engines, the Nissan went through an evolution of timing belts. So not all years of Nissan VG30E timing belts will fit your Lotus. More importantly, not all Nissan VG30E round-tooth timing belts will fit a Lotus.

(Ford used a variation on the same Nissan engine in the joint-developed Villager/Quest mini-van. However Ford insisted the engine be re-designed for a clearance valve train. The result was the V40 engine = Villager/Quest mini-van. But I'm not certain the Ford-spec version used the same T-188 timing belt ?? Something else to check out.)

The earliest versions of the Nissan VG30E engine used a trapezoidal toothed belt that will also fit on early Lotus 9XX engines.

Later versions went through a series of round-toothed timing belts. Don't make the mistake of assuming all round tooth Nissan VG30E timing belts are created equal and install just any round tooth Nissan belt on your 9XX. Only the last iteration (the HTD tooth belt) will fit Lotus engines with HTD belts… see below.

Nissan round tooth belts:

Pre – July 1993 = SHALLOW Groove, round tooth, 60k miles?
Jul 93 -- Aug 94 = DEEP Groove, round tooth, 60k miles
Aug 94 Onward = HTD (Gates T188), 105k miles <<<< this one !
Lotus owners want to use the last version of the Nissan belt (Aux 1994 onward – Gates T-188 HTD timing belt.

2oodoor
09-18-2008, 06:50 AM
Using the above information I crossed the number over to a Gates T249 which is a 1"1X49 7/8 133tooth belt. This belt is for the Nissan and Mercury Villager. This may be a more common stocked item.
Now I am not sure about the tooth size and shape, I will get one to see.
EDIT Got it ! looks identical. cost me $15.99
Thanks to Twoloudnproud for doing the homework on the size and part numbers so I could research the crossover numbers to the Lotus sites where I found the info to a more common application of Nissan Vg30 and Infinity 33.

2oodoor
09-19-2008, 03:25 AM
After thinking about this, since that Lotus article was from UK , and the crossover information was inclusive of UK part numbers from Gates.. I wonder why EDM Honda B20A was not showing up. Is that a different belt than the 133 tooth? What gates number crosses over for that belt in UK I wonder..

also.. ?Since this includes the Mercruy Villager Nissan born engine that means there is a Motorcraft number too.

Ichiban
05-19-2009, 06:54 PM
I got an (i believe) goodyear 026-249 belt. The parts store had it listed for a 4 cylinder Nissan Xterra.

2ndGenGuy
05-19-2009, 10:07 PM
I think the belt width might be different. I got the Gates T249 from NAPA, and I do believe it's wider, but doesn't seem to matter. Car runs perfect with it. The Nissan Xterra I got mine off of was a V6 though. It was listed to fit a Villager V6 as well.

Esprit2
04-12-2010, 08:29 AM
Posted 09-18-2008, Message #42

From Lotus information, apparantley the same belt too. Looks like a Nissan belt or even possibly Ford could work with further investigation. article next....

A Gates Rubber Co. T-188 is a 133 tooth HTD timing belt that will work on Lotus 9XX engines 1986 onward. (Snip)... see msg #42 for the rest

Hi,
I wrote the original Lotus message that was quoted in part in Msg #42. I'm in the USA, but that message is scattered all over the Lotus community. I'm not surprised someone found it on a UK site.

The basic belt is an industry standard HTD spec with a 0.375" tooth pitch and 133 teeth. When they're made, they're laid-up in very wide bands on a drum mandrel, and then narrow loops are sliced off in whatever width is required for a given application.

Belt technology has evolved over time, and continues to do so. The basic dimensions of the .375 pitch HTD have remained the same, but the materials and lay-up have improved.

The Gates T188 belt is a .375" pitch HTD-spec that's 25.4 mm (1.0") wide, and made to the original mid-1980's technology (circa 1985-86?). The main components being HCR rubber (High-Temp Neoprene/ Chloroprene) and a glass cord body. They're the inexpensive "economy" belts you can still buy. They're not as stable, so check the tension regularly; and they don't last as long so replace them more frequently. The Gates T188 part number works in North America and Australia (elsewhere?). In the UK, the T188 is known as the Gates 5168NS (or the long version: 5168-58133-1-209DS). 5168NS may work in parts of Europe, but there it's also known as the Gates 5206 for the Peugeot MI 16 L4 1.9 DOHC. T188, 5168NS and 5206 all come off the same tooling, they just have different markings printed on them.

The Gates T249 belt is dimensionally the same as the T188, however it uses HSN rubber (Highly Saturated Nitrile) that was introduced a decade later (around 1994-95) and has reinforced teeth. The T249 is significantly more durable, so the belt change interval is much longer. They're the "long life" or "extended service" belts.

The current, modern generation of timing belts uses HNBR rubber, which is another quantum leap forward in durability (HNBR = Hydrogenated Acrylonitrile-Butadiene Rubber... the "N" is for Nitrile, the common nickname for Acrylonitrile). The Gates Racing version of the HNBR belt uses a glass cord body, Kevlar tooth reinforcement and a Nylon tooth jacket that, overall, doubles tooth strength. Unfortunately, I've not found any manufacturer, including Gates, who is bothering to develop HNBR belts for old applications... there are no listings for the old Nissan VG30E, Peugeot MI16, Honda B20a applications.

However, JAE, an independent Lotus parts supplier in Goletta, CA, has worked directly with Gates Racing Products to develop an HNBR version of the .375" pitch HTD for use on the Lotus engines. Gates Racing does low-volume, short-run products for special, high performance racing applications, and operates outside the normal Gates "big business", so they were willing to produce a special belt.

The .375" pitch HTD belt Lotus uses is unique in being a little wider than most at 26.4 mm (1.039"). Most other applications, like the Nissan VG30E V6, Peugeot MI16 L4 1.9 liter DOHC, and the generic Gates T188 and T249 belts are 1 mm narrower at 25.4 mm (1.0") wide. If the wider Lotus belt will fit on your Honda pulleys, then it's otherwise the same pitch, mesh, number of teeth and length.

For my education, what is the Honda B20a OEM belt's width? Which Honda models use that engine/ belt. That would be helpful cross-ref info for Lotus owners.

I'm a Lotus guy, I don't know Honda or the B20a engine (I found this site while searching for other Lotus timing belt cross references), and I don't know if your engines can accept a 1 mm wider belt than the standard Gates T188 / T249. But if you're interested in the HNBR belt upgrade, contact:
JAE, Jeff Robbinson, (805) 967-5767.

I'm new here and the system won't let me post an email address until after I’ve posted 5 messages, so here's Jeff’s email non-address.
Jeff at JAEparts dot com

The HNBR belt is expensive at something north of US$100, but it's better, stronger, more durable. It's also more stable and will have to be re-tensioned less often. The Lotus engine uses a manual tensioner, so that's important to us.

I have no business interest in JAE. I'm just a Lotus owner, and I've found JAE to be a straight-up resource I can trust. However, they don't know Honda, so you'll have to work with them collaboratively if this HNBR belt is to be of any value to the Honda world.

JAE has made the HNBR belt they developed available to other Lotus vendors if they wish to carry it. If the HNBR belt fits Honda applications, I'm certain Jeff would be happy to work with a Honda specialist or two in order to make it more available to Honda owners. But I'll leave that up to you guys to work out if you're interested.

Regards,
Tim

2ndGenGuy
04-12-2010, 08:49 AM
Wow man. That is way more info on timing belts than I ever could have imagined knowing. It would be great to get a higher-performance timing belt... even if we're not using them for racing purposes, I suppose it would be a longer-lasting belt that would require changing at a longer interval?

Thanks for the info! I think that $100 is not bad for a little reassurance that we're not going to destroy our engines that aren't available in this country.

Versanick
04-12-2010, 09:50 AM
I actually found a 133 or 128 tooth (I forget) Gator Belt (advanced auto parts brand they order) that was 31/32" (which is about 24.5mm roughly?)

Works like a dream.

carotman
04-12-2010, 02:26 PM
Very interesting post. I don't know if 26.4mm would work. I measured 3 OEM Honda Timing belts I have here and they all are 23mm wide.

2oodoor
04-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Very interesting post. I don't know if 26.4mm would work. I measured 3 OEM Honda Timing belts I have here and they all are 23mm wide.


The aftermarket belts we are using, 25.4 mm (1.0") wide work good and I do not see 26.4 being a problem. Having a high quality race bred belt would be a welcome addition to the B20a arsenal of hi perf parts I am sure.

I have not laid hands on the Motorcraft version of the belt, but I am sure it would be superior quality as well considering it is an oem part.

thanks for posting Espirit2, it is always interesting and exciting to see other car entheusists (especially a high end car like Lotus) share in knowledge and community here with us at 3geez.

carotman
04-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Well, I would buy one of those belts for sure! We just have to check if the width will work.

Esprit2
04-14-2010, 09:44 AM
I just talked with Jeff at JAE about their HNBR belt's width.
(805) 967-5767
It turns out that Gates made the HNBR belts using the tooling set-up that makes the T188 HCR and T249 HSN belts, so they're the same 25.4 mm width... not the Lotus 26.4 mm width. If you're already using those Gates T188/T249 belts with no fit issues, then the JAE/Gates HNBR belt should fit as well.

Belt life is a function of lots of engine-specific factors, in addition to the belt design. It's unrealistic to expect Gates or any belt manufacturer to make a mileage claim for any engine without lots of testing (normally done by the engine manufacturer), and that's just not happening for old engines. But in generic terms...

HCR belts (Gates T188) were roughly 50,000 mile belts.
HSN belts (Gates T249) were roughly 100,000 mile belts.
HNBR belts are the next step toward 150,000 belts.

In any case, any given engine's belt service interval might be more or less than that based upon testing and how aggressive management wants to be.

In the USA, there are govenment mandated durability standards, including for timing belt life. That's what drove the introduction of the HSN ~100k mile belt, and now the target has been moved out to 150,000 miles.

HNBR belts are the next step toward that goal. I don't know if they've fully achieved that goal, but they're going in that direction and are currently the best timing belt technology on the market. HNBR isn't a Gates exclusive, but Gates Racing and JAE are the only ones making an HNBR belt in the 188/249 size we can use. If we want one, it's our only option.

I wouldn't suggest that you slap an HNBR belt on your B20A and leave it there for 150k miles, or even much longer than the original Honda spec... that's your decision. But it is a stronger, more durable belt. If you drive the car hard, track it, or otherwise spend lots of time bouncing off the rev limiter, the new belt could be a good insurance policy even if you don't stretch the service interval.

That's the way the Lotus crowd is approaching it. Our engines are not clearance designs. If the belt goes, the valves & pistons collide, and things get very expensive in a hurry. Anything that reduces that risk is seen as a good thing.

Tim