Cooling system weakest link under intake manifold?

[AC439]

Hi...I replaced the radiator a week ago due to a leak. Just when I thought I got the problem fixed, I have new leak in a new location. The new coolant leak was first seen under the horizontal section of the exhaust pipe under the oil filter. This happens after the car has warmed up. By using a flash light and checking from the top, I couldn't see any places getting wet. But seems to be a little wet under the oil filter closer to the passenger side. So, I think the new radiator has keep the pressure up within the system and the next weakest link started to burst.

I already have the heater hoses changed and they are not leaking. The upper and lower radiator hoses are also new and they are not leaking. I know there are a few coolant hoses under the intake manifold. I have printed out the Honda manual page 10-2 but they are not really being well identified. Anyone changed the hoses there before? How many are they? What size of hoses do you use?

Thanks. - Alex
86 LXi

--------------------------------------------
Ok. After the above posting. I went to get a mirror and look above and under the car trying to find where is leaking. First of all, all the hoses under the intake manifolds are dry !!! Very surprising !!! I literally touched every hose I can find under the intake and I didn't get any fluid on my finger. Nor the mirror review any wetness on every hoses. I only found trace of coolant on the bracket around the two bolts that hangs the horizontal section of the exhaust pipe under the oil pan. This was done within a 2 hours period so I wonder if the coolant will dry all up that fast. I also checked the drain bolt on the front of the engine block and it appears dry and there is no trace of fluid under it. The chilton's book say the drain bolt may be either at the front or above the oil filter. I couldn't find any drain bolt above the oil filter either. Also, the leak seems to be started AFTER the engine is shut off. I wonder if there is any sudden pressure change when the engine is from on to off state that cause the coolant bursts out.

So, I'm still very puzzle with this. I don't want to give up because I just put a new radiator in. I know many of you got more miles out of your 3g and I think mine can do better than 241k miles. Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks. - Alex

[Blkblurr]

Did you check the small coolant hoses that are near your air cleaner box? How about the ones on the intake manifold near the throttle body?

[AC439]

Yes, I have checked them all. I took out the air filter housing and the filter so I could stick my hand below it. I literally touched everything under there including tracing and touching all the hoses from the waterpump's output pipe and all dry.

[MessyHonda]

mine was a headgasket...look like it was in the back of the mani

[AC439]

mine was a headgasket...look like it was in the back of the mani

I'm afraid that this is also what's happening in my car. I'd wondering how am I going to diagnose this?

[Blkblurr]

a lot of times the coolant will evaporate on the hose because of the heat so I always leave something under the area of suspicion that will show wetness or dripping after running the engine.

[MessyHonda]

check your oil and see if its mixed with coolent...and check your coolent see if its foamy.....another way is to use a compression test mine blow between 2-3 cly

[snoopyloopy]

you may want to check those lines again. and when the engine is running. take off the intake ducting if you have to because a lot of those lines are a real pain to look at with it on the car.

[shepherd79]

just start the car and let it idle. when pressure builds up, the leak will show itself.

[BITESIZE]

It sounds like you are trying to hard.

[mkymonkey]

i have a pinhole on that pipe that runs under the manifold. the one that connects to the water pump. just as a warning....its 96 bucks at the dealership :( oh and i still havent put it on, its been sitting for 7 months haha

[BITESIZE]

i have a pinhole on that pipe that runs under the manifold. the one that connects to the water pump. just as a warning....its 96 bucks at the dealership :( oh and i still havent put it on, its been sitting for 7 months haha


I went to the salvage yard and bought one for like 5 bucks!:welcome:

[mkymonkey]

yeah well, i went too....but they were all rusted though 7mos ago. so i said fuck it and bought it from the dealer.

[BITESIZE]

Something like that part wouldn't be a bad thing to buy brand new, since it's in a hard ass place to reach.

[vongiese]

I went to the salvage yard and bought one for like 5 bucks!:welcome:

I had to replace mine - it was rusted too - and i got it at Honda Parts Unlimited for about $27 shipped. I was a bugger to replace - I can't beleve it can be done without taking the intake manifold off, but it can!! Takes some mirrors and patience and skinny arms/fingers. Gotta remove the battery and loosen the fuse box so there's enough room for the pipe to come out. Don't forget to get a new O-ring where it meets the water pump. I also had to replace the metal "+" (4-way junction of small heater hoses) located near the thermostat housing - it was rusted too.
look at this thread
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56713&highlight=water+pipe
good luck!

[shepherd79]

i have a pinhole on that pipe that runs under the manifold. the one that connects to the water pump. just as a warning....its 96 bucks at the dealership :( oh and i still havent put it on, its been sitting for 7 months haha
i got it from majestic for $47 shippeed about 2 years ago.

[Oldblueaccord]

Damn I think mine leaks there too. I been chasing it for a while now. its either there some place along the pipe or it could be the fast idle valve. I kinda been just letting it ride the leaks so small it effects nothin at this time.


wp

[skycam_313]

look at your freeze plugs too

[mkymonkey]

lol, i guess im the only douche that would pay 90+ bucks for that part huh

[AC439]

Thanks guys for all the responses !

I kind of think the leak is at the side where the engine joins the transmission but the small hoses there are dry. I guess I have to idle the engine again and see where it is leaking when pressure builds up.

I also checked the coolant and it's not foamy. I check the engine oil and don't think it is mixed with coolant.

I have never heard of the "freeze plug". Where is it and what does it do? What do I check with it?

Thanks. - Alex

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=727061&postcount=35


there plugs that go into the block in the water passages.


I really think mines the thermostat housing the last part to the block. I first found the antifreeze on that wire loom by the clutch cable of all places.

I think I add like a cup of fluid a month so Im not gonna worry to much about it.


wp

[AC439]

Ok. I think if my head gasket blew, I'm not going to have the engine fixed since the labor is too expensive for changing a head gasket. So, I took off the valve cover gasket and torqued all the 10 bolts for the head. They were pretty tight and most of them won't even turn with a long handle wrench. I was able to tighten the few bolts at the mid back for probably no more than 1/8 of a turn.

I have also put a tube of those aluminum seal into it and did drive to work today. After I parked and stopped the engine, there were some leaks dripping down onto the exhause pipe at the same location. But seemed to have improved. I drove home after work and parked on the driveway and to my surprised, I didn't see any leaks at all. I'm wondering if that aluminum seal did the trick or not. I did use the same aluminum seal once before I changed out the radiator and it did the trick too until the old radiator really gave up.

So, I'll see how that's holding up.
Thanks.- Alex

[Oldblueaccord]

There some stuuf called Bars Leak it comes in a small brown bottle. Its the last ditch stuuf I'd use it will seal anything.


wp

[vongiese]

doh - sorry for the dupe

[vongiese]

Ok. I think if my head gasket blew, I'm not going to have the engine fixed since the labor is too expensive for changing a head gasket. So, I took off the valve cover gasket and torqued all the 10 bolts for the head. They were pretty tight and most of them won't even turn with a long handle wrench. I was able to tighten the few bolts at the mid back for probably no more than 1/8 of a turn.
I have also put a tube of those aluminum seal into it and did drive to work today. After I parked and stopped the engine, there were some leaks dripping down onto the exhause pipe at the same location. But seemed to have improved. I drove home after work and parked on the driveway and to my surprised, I didn't see any leaks at all. I'm wondering if that aluminum seal did the trick or not. I did use the same aluminum seal once before I changed out the radiator and it did the trick too until the old radiator really gave up.
So, I'll see how that's holding up.
Thanks.- Alex
hopefully you followed the torque specs in the manual.......
I wouldn't use that stop leak stuff - it just makes a mess and clogs up other things like sensors..... Yeah -If I had to pay labor for the work on my 3 geez I'd be in the po house..... Learn to do it yourself - use some fo the money you save to buy more tools.

[Oldblueaccord]

"I'm not going to have the engine fixed since the labor is too expensive for changing a head gasket."

its worth a shot that or the jay yard.


wp

[AC439]

Ok. I think I have some good news.

After scratching my head for a week and the leak seemed to comes and goes, I finally see what's happening. The leak has been very bad today and I brought me extra water just in case. After some driving and back home, I parked the car. Opened the engine hood with engine running, no leak noted. Then turned off the engine and in a few seconds, I saw coolant shoot out from one short hose somewhere near the thermostat housing and connects to the "+" fitting. So, I found the weakest link. Am goin' to replace all the hoses there and see what happen. Glad this is not the head gasket....

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah its after you shut the car off the temp goes up and so does the pressure for a short time. Afterboil.

Glad its something easy.


wp

[vongiese]

Ok. I think I have some good news.
After scratching my head for a week and the leak seemed to comes and goes, I finally see what's happening. The leak has been very bad today and I brought me extra water just in case. After some driving and back home, I parked the car. Opened the engine hood with engine running, no leak noted. Then turned off the engine and in a few seconds, I saw coolant shoot out from one short hose somewhere near the thermostat housing and connects to the "+" fitting. So, I found the weakest link. Am goin' to replace all the hoses there and see what happen. Glad this is not the head gasket....
Yup - sounds like my car - I bet your "+" is rusted thru and leaking. That and my water inlet pipe were both rusted thru. You might as well replace all those small heater hoses. I used 5/16" rubber fuel line hose - cheap at the hardware store. You'll need about 4 feet to replace all of them in a FI car. There's a couple that are a bugger - like the one from the water inlet pipe nearest the water pump to the underside of the intake manif. But if you are replacing the water inlet pipe you have to remove that one anyway.
The "+" is about $11 from an internet dealer. I even re-used most of the orig. hose clamps. Also a good time to replace you PCV since it's tucked in next to one of these hoses.
I've replaced these hoses on a few accords. Don't have to drain all your antifreeze either.
hers's a parts diagram - http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/schonda/jsp/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+SEI&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=WATER+PUMP+(PGM-FI)&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=Engine
- #1 is the "+" and #12 is the water inlet pipe, and the 5/16" hoses are #13-25 (except 18,19 are large hoses).
mike

[AC439]

Thanks guys !

Finally I got a chance to work on the car today. Took off the air intake plastic pipe (Fuel Inj engine) so I could get to the hoses easier. I took the "+" off and replaced the two bigger ones (I used 1/2" hose) and the two smaller ones (5/16" hoses). The other smaller hoses under the intake are too hard to reach so I checked them and found them to be in good shape so I didn't replace them. Only replaced the 4 hoses connect to the "+". I figured out if the other smaller hoses start to go, the "+" assembly should not be in their way and I can replace them later. When I was trying to take apart the two big hoses at the "+", I ended up cut them off so I can get to the clamp easier. The broken one was the top big hose. The bottom one is also very soft to touch and is in bad shape. The two smaller ones are in good shape but I changed them anyway.

At least I now have my car back to working condition. I was thinking about maybe its time to get myself in a new debt (a newer car).

[vongiese]

Thanks guys !
Finally I got a chance to work on the car today. Took off the air intake plastic pipe (Fuel Inj engine) so I could get to the hoses easier. I took the "+" off and replaced the two bigger ones (I used 1/2" hose) and the two smaller ones (5/16" hoses). The other smaller hoses under the intake are too hard to reach so I checked them and found them to be in good shape so I didn't replace them. Only replaced the 4 hoses connect to the "+". I figured out if the other smaller hoses start to go, the "+" assembly should not be in their way and I can replace them later. When I was trying to take apart the two big hoses at the "+", I ended up cut them off so I can get to the clamp easier. The broken one was the top big hose. The bottom one is also very soft to touch and is in bad shape. The two smaller ones are in good shape but I changed them anyway.
At least I now have my car back to working condition. I was thinking about maybe its time to get myself in a new debt (a newer car).

Thinking of moving up to an 89 3gee? new cars aren't all they're cracked up to be....esp that payment, and insurance. But what do I know - never had one - got better things to do with my pennies.....like buy more used 3geez for a couple hundred bucks and fix them up....

[MessyHonda]

Thinking of moving up to an 89 3gee? new cars aren't all they're cracked up to be....esp that payment, and insurance. But what do I know - never had one - got better things to do with my pennies.....like buy more used 3geez for a couple hundred bucks and fix them up....


yeah...its cheap to maintain a 3gee...my friend that works with me bought a 21k dodge truck...she still owes 17k and she has no money for tires so she has a spare...i was like wow...get something smaller like mine...and she started to laugh and said i dont want a bucket.....then i started to laugh and said....at least mine is paid for....

[AC439]

yeah...its cheap to maintain a 3gee...my friend that works with me bought a 21k dodge truck...she still owes 17k and she has no money for tires so she has a spare...i was like wow...get something smaller like mine...and she started to laugh and said i dont want a bucket.....then i started to laugh and said....at least mine is paid for....

Yep, I can't stand a new car payment either. I don't understand why there are so many people driving SUVs on the road. Either they are too rich or they have debts up to their eyebrow. Glad that my car is now fixed so I can still use it. Have 241k miles on it and still goes strong. The only problem is the car is very low and every other car blinds me with their headlights.

[AC439]

yeah...its cheap to maintain a 3gee...my friend that works with me bought a 21k dodge truck...she still owes 17k and she has no money for tires so she has a spare...i was like wow...get something smaller like mine...and she started to laugh and said i dont want a bucket.....then i started to laugh and said....at least mine is paid for....

I agree it is relatively cheap to maintain a 3g. I have no problems working on my car except on some very tight spaces. I still haven't work on the inside of engine block yet. I think this is beyond my ability. Other than that, the car seems to be able to run forever.

[MessyHonda]

Yep, I can't stand a new car payment either. I don't understand why there are so many people driving SUVs on the road. Either they are too rich or they have debts up to their eyebrow. Glad that my car is now fixed so I can still use it. Have 241k miles on it and still goes strong. The only problem is the car is very low and every other car blinds me with their headlights.



well after i got my rear windows tinted it solved that problem...but if its head on you are screwed anyways...i just look at the lower right hand line when big or cars with bright lights passes me.

[AC439]

Well....I have some bad news but kind of expected. Today, I parked in the office parking lot and there was steam coming from the engine bay. Opened the hood and definitely smelled the distinct coolant burning. Not a lot of coolant lost but only a few drops on the ground. Rechecked the coolant level after car has cooled down and it was an inch below the high mark in the bottle and still almost full at radiator. So I took a chance to drive home after work (18 miles one trip no traffic). When I came home, definitely more coolant spilling out. This time it is the small coolant hose under the intake manifold. Now the car is too low on coolant so I'm not driving it until I have time to replace the hose. The weakest link came after the previous one was fixed, exactly like last time.

Well, I know the small hoses under the intake manifold is kind of difficult to change but just got to do it sometime. If anyone has any good suggestions on the easiest way to change the small hoses, please let me know. I have a 86LXi.

I also wonder if the radiator cap has something to do with it. If the pressure to open to overflow tank is too high, it will causes hoses to burst, right?

Thanks.

[vongiese]

Well....I have some bad news but kind of expected. Today, I parked in the office parking lot and there was steam coming from the engine bay. Opened the hood and definitely smelled the distinct coolant burning. Not a lot of coolant lost but only a few drops on the ground. Rechecked the coolant level after car has cooled down and it was an inch below the high mark in the bottle and still almost full at radiator. So I took a chance to drive home after work (18 miles one trip no traffic). When I came home, definitely more coolant spilling out. This time it is the small coolant hose under the intake manifold. Now the car is too low on coolant so I'm not driving it until I have time to replace the hose. The weakest link came after the previous one was fixed, exactly like last time.
Well, I know the small hoses under the intake manifold is kind of difficult to change but just got to do it sometime. If anyone has any good suggestions on the easiest way to change the small hoses, please let me know. I have a 86LXi.
I also wonder if the radiator cap has something to do with it. If the pressure to open to overflow tank is too high, it will causes hoses to burst, right?
Thanks.

Replace all those hoses - they are past their service life and you'll likely have trouble with the ones that are not currently leaking. be done with it and replace them ALL. They can be a pain cause they are in some tight places, but it can be done. If the cap is old - just replace it as cheap insurance... they are cheap $5-$10. Also - I've found - if you are going to replace the hose clamps with screw type - get ones with hex heads and use a nut driver, but just snug them down - don't over tighten .
mike

[AC439]

Well, I am resurrecting my own thread after 6 and 1/2 years of this repair.

Today the car overheated again and the car gave me the infamous coolant steam water fountain show. I rode the AAA tow truck home. After refilling with plain water and connecting the bicycle pump to the overflow connection on the radiator neck, I pumped it up and water shoot out from the top hose connected to the "+". The hose was brittle and hard and just falling apart when I took it off. Upon close inspection of the markings on the hose, it was a fuel line !

I thought fuel line is the strongest material and wasn't aware it is not designed for heat. So I shoot myself on the foot and have to replace all 5/16 hoses again !

At least, the repair held up for 6 1/2 years with fuel lines as coolant hoses. For those bigger hoses I replaced, I used coolant hose and they are still soft to the touch today. But all those smaller hoses that I replaced with fuel lines, they are hard.

Hope this helps anyone that is going to replace the small hoses.
AC

[AC439]

I cannot believe I am resurrecting my own thread once again after 5 and a 1/2 years.....

Drove the accord to work Saturday morning. After 2 miles, I watched the temp gauge shooting up the roof quickly so I pulled into the parking lot of a supermarket. After car parked, I saw smoke coming out of the engine and coolant all over the place.....

Man ! glad we have modern day apps and company like Uber/AAA and they are readily available so I hired an Uber to work. Then I hired Uber again back to the supermarket after work and ordered AAA (again using their app). The AAA tow truck came not too long after and the driver opened the engine hood and looked around (he insisted to help). This time is the hose between the "+" and the thermostat housing.

The smaller hoses are fine and holding up (I used silicone hose). The bigger one is the 1/2 inch generic heater hose I bought from autopart store.

[Oldblueaccord]

I cannot believe I am resurrecting my own thread once again after 5 and a 1/2 years.....

Drove the accord to work Saturday morning. After 2 miles, I watched the temp gauge shooting up the roof quickly so I pulled into the parking lot of a supermarket. After car parked, I saw smoke coming out of the engine and coolant all over the place.....

Man ! glad we have modern day apps and company like Uber/AAA and they are readily available so I hired an Uber to work. Then I hired Uber again back to the supermarket after work and ordered AAA (again using their app). The AAA tow truck came not too long after and the driver opened the engine hood and looked around (he insisted to help). This time is the hose between the "+" and the thermostat housing.

The smaller hoses are fine and holding up (I used silicone hose). The bigger one is the 1/2 inch generic heater hose I bought from autopart store.

Terrible story on my part I still havent changed any hose on my car.....it will get me one day I am sure.

[InAccordance]

I got rid of half of mine so /shrug

[Dr_Snooz]

it will get me one day I am sure.

Mine got me. I had to replace the hose during rush hour, parked in front of a stranger's house. I was wearing a $700 suit.