supporting mods for gude racing pakage?

[bobafett]

ok. i am "kind of" planning to get the gude racing package, which includes:

port and polish throttle body, and heads
racing valve grind
racing cam.

i want to do it right if i get this, and one of my concerns is engine longevity. so if i do these upgrades, i want to make sure i am not risking too much. if there is anything i can do before these parts go on, that would help. what are they?

also i was told the intake manifold from a 88-89 would help. would getting a bigger fuel pump or bigger injectors help? also, the price is 1550 for that gude racing package. would i be smarter to just buy a bigger TB, or make my own bigger? and port and polish it myself? if i do that to the TB, i assume i could do it to the heads as well, which would mean i should swap to the 88-89 heads in the mean time, to raise the compression.

what other mods would be smart either before i start this process. or while i do it. please be complete. and all my current mods are in the sig. :)

i need your help to plan this right!

[smufguy]

Well getting a 88-89 TB would increase ur hp because u get a two stage intake manifold. unless ur using turbo or anything else, hig pressure injectors are not work it. But if u want to replace the old ones with new ones, def dont get a stock one. But getting high pressure ones are alright if u got the money. and get a Fuel pressure regulator with a read-able pressure guage and a high pressure (volume) fuel pump if u really want. i dont see a cold air intake or a short ram air intake on ur mods list, so i am assuming u dont have one, its better to get one. if u really really really want it, rebuild ur motor and get higher compression pistons like 10:1 compression pistons and that is, if the ppl who are gonna rebuild ur motor say its good to do it.

here is what i would do with your 1500 budget. i will not buy any racing package or anything. i would get a jdm b20 and have it put in my car for that price. Whcih would cost around 600 bucks all together cause someone found a site where this canadian dude found a JDM B20A1 for $200 USD. nice deal though. you see, you can do an engine swap with that money if you want to. But if u really wanna put money into your motor and make it high performance, i would say rebuild ur motor cause with just polished heads, and crappy oil soaked engine block, ur not gonna get a lot for the money u spend.

But either way, its your decision. Choose wisely and never spend money on something you like, but would happen to regret it in the future. Good luck.

[bobafett]

hey thanks for your input~ i would go with a b20 swap, but i would rather do this as a staged upgrade, and i dont know how likely it is for me to find a b20 with a manual transmission. though its definetly something that i am interested in!

[iiviasterp]

actually i was lookin at the gude racing package also.... and the 1500 is for the package with no core..... im not sure about the price with core... but im sure it would be around 500 because thats how much all the other packages are. if it is around 500, that is one hell of a buy considering that gude claims to make up to 50 horse from their head packages........ thats around 10 dollars a hp..... only thing close to that is nitrous

[Sean]

consider a formul like so.

cam
compersion 10:1 with pistons dont mill the damn head.
b16a intake
b16 throttle body or bigger replacemnt.
as for the engine as long as the ring seal is good and it has good oil pressure your fine. the a20a is a durable little engine.
these are mods i would do. then capitalize on it all with ecm tunnng. the gude head is a waste of money.

[night]

the 88-9 manifold is very bad for performance. the runners are way to damn long.
i would push 10.5 to 11 CR. your engine is 8.8, but the 88-9 is 9.3. 10 just isnt enough to be worth the trouble.
with good cams and higher CR the 2 stage manifold is not an issue. all the power will be way on the top.

since you will/would be getting custom pistons, clean up the block. i would get .5mm bigger and bore the block. makes damn sure it is tight and to spec. plus a few more CC's never hurts.


i personally dont have a clue how gude is even still around. i never have liked them and i've heard few ppl even mention them anymore. i have a PYR head you can have for cheap and web cam makes great cams for dirt cheap.

trying to do the head yourself is gonna mean making an expensive boat anchor.

its hard to say on the injectors. i used to know their rating but im not sure anymore. i *think* 220cc. but they should be ok with a mild raise in fuel pressure.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

I could go either way on intake manifolds. But I'm curious to hear the resoning for writting off the dual stage intake manifold for performance sake. The purpose of it being dual stage is this. It runs on the long runners to inhance turbulance or swirl/air fuel mixing at low rpm's, thus inhanceing torque. Now at a certain point that long runner becomes a liability as it cannot flow enough air and hampers performance. So that's why the other runner is shorter, it can handle higher flow volumes. So the question I'd ask is this, why can't you send the intake to extrude hone and have them work their magic on the short runner? If it has thin walls to begin with that would be enough to kill the whole idea and instantly make the 86-87 manifold or a B18/B16 manifold a more sensible choice.

Now what would I want if I were to build a engine. I've seen arguments on the benefits of increasing your compression. I can't argue against them save for detonation worries (hell I was pinging on my low compression engine (another story).) But if power was the goal I'd want 10:1 Next thing I'd want to know is what's the best manifold. To me if my car didn't allready come with the dual stage manifold I wouldn't bother adding it. So,....I'd debate between sending my intake and head to extrude hone or to purchase a b16/b18 manifold and follow the really great how to article in this months Grass Roots Motorsports mag on how to port and polish your head yourself. Then I'd have to sit down and figure out what kind of cam options. I'd sure hope I could get gudes throttle body. And all that's just a start, frankly I've never really thought about it all that much.

What did funstick say about boring over our blocks? Didn't he say they are to thin to make that a viable option? I really don't remember, but I thought he said they were to thin.

[bobafett]

well i like all this discussion from people that know way more than me!

i am very open to sugestions, and just learning about "car stuff" but my overall goal for the car is 15's, and flat 15 would be a VERY nice thing to hit. though i would settle for high 15's right now..

with a goal like that in mind, what route is the wisest?

[smufguy]

the best thing to do is to take things step by step. as in

putting in a CAI
doing your whole exhaust (from headers to your muffler)
Advancing ur timing (or even getting a msd or accel)
getting better plugs and wires.
changing your fluids to a better one.

its like, a baby taking one step at a time. If ur unsure about how its done, or just wanna make yourself right, talk to this board before you being to do it. Esp the moderators and others who have been here long know a lot. Look at me for instance, i been here for like 4 months, and i know a lot more in these 4 months about cars, than i even though would have in a life time. Just visit the board all the time, read the faqs and how-to's. ask anyone about every question you have. You will find yourself blessed with the nice attitude (being open to ideas) you got. Have fun buddy

[bobafett]

:) thanks smfguy....

yeah right now all i have is the ram intake, and i am kind of scared to put in a CAI since i live and washington, and its mostly a giant lake unless youre in summer. i know we can get bypass filters and all, but its still kind of nervracking...

i AM however considering swapping to a sedan/coupe bumper, and ducting a ram air system from the lower "foglight" hole, up to a short ram system thats a few inches above the hole in the bumper. i dont know for some reason i just like the sedan/coupe bumper better, and this seems like i could make a bit of forced air to my advantage!

[Sean]

hmm the accord head flows pretty well. i could use some help on motors over 150hp but it does a good job till then. the benifits of incerasing compression are multiple. genreally it will give you more vacum at ideal helping to keep the ecm sane. extra power,and the ability to take advantgae of the lack of air flow that occurs at low rpm with a large cam. i would do the build up put out there already

healthy cam
b16/b18 intake manifold
your gonna have to do a touch bit of port work ont eh intake and head. mostly just matehng the post to each other. pretty easy using a gasket as a template.

as for pistons i would call wiseco and see if they have a lightwieght model that would be well suited to yr engine. they should be able to make you some. i would also stay away form low silicon pistons. they expand alot more and need more cylinder wall clearnce. you could always bore the block but 0.02 is the limit. at least for boost motors anyways.

i would foucus on

lightening the flywheel /clutch reward will be faster reving engine.
light weight wheels also reducing any rototang mass is a plus. in terms of acceleration.
light wieght pistons
if you do port the head only remove the flashing and bumps dont reshape the port. its a complicated and drawn out process.
if you want a head ported get me via email ill work a good price up for you. ive spent about $1000 on the flow bench i know what mods do and do not work.

other than imporveing the cam and flow into the engine header exhaust cat back all good stuff. i would use the pacesetter setup. engine to bumper. it flow very well and will get you to the 15's without being to noisy.

sean

[night]

:eek: ouch, dont evern mention extrude hone and head in the same sentence.
that stuff is not good for anything of the sort

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by night
:eek: ouch, dont evern mention extrude hone and head in the same sentence.
that stuff is not good for anything of the sort

Why do you say that? Please explain.

I have not idea how much it cost's, cost may make it a none issue anyway's. They do have some heady backers for thier process, ford svt is certainly one of them, though for intakes only. Part of what they do is to monitor the process, they can remove allot of material or simply make mirror smooth finish in area's a head porter can only dream about.

[Sean]

the only draw back to extrude honing is the damn cost for pumping silly putty thorugh a port. thats about all it is is silly putty with abrisives. and from what ive seen of there work ive been less than impressed. ive seen them ruin new heads multiple times. they ruined my canfield small block heads a few yrs ago.i was pissed. sometime you just can shape the ports with putty. sometims you cant. they only good use ive ever seen for extrude hone was deflshing the ports.