Won't idle after italian tune up

[bushbean]

One week after my stage-one vacuum removal, the car has been running great, so I decided now would be a good time for a tune up. Therefore, I performed an italian tune up while driving home from work yesterday. The car seems to really enjoy being pushed to its limit yesterday. This morning is a different story. The car won't hold idle (ie., engine will stall if the RPM drops below 1000), but it runs fine if I keep it over 1000 rpm. Any ideas?

[88LXi68]

ummm...what is an italian tune up?

[MessyHonda]

yeah wtf is italian tune up.....did you like spend hella money and thought you car was a fiat...lol

[bushbean]

I'm talking about running the engine at wide open throttle for an extended period of time, so that carbon crud can be blasted out thru the exhaust pipe. I guess the technique was invented by the Italians, or something.

[Estimated Prophet]

^^^ Blah blah blah Anyways back to the topic......


What is this Italian tune-up and is there any merit to it?

[mkymonkey]

why didnt you use seafoam to help it if youre going to rev the shit out of it? lol

[HostileJava]

http://www.members.tripod.com/~fuelie/tuneup.htm


The opportunity to get the engine up on the cam and run it until good and hot is rare.

As a result, engine oil doesn't get hot enough to boil off moisture and burn off the deposits caused by low speeds and incomplete warm-ups. Even with a fresh cleaning and tune-up, these cars may still show poor idle step-off, hesitation and non-linear throttle response.

A cure can sometimes be to carefully run an otherwise good engine hard so it gets hot enough to burn the excess carbon deposits off the piston crowns, clean the valve faces and blast deposits off the spark plugs, fuel injector nozzles and oxygen sensor and at the same time boil any lingering water out of the oil.


Warning #1:

The following procedure can blow your engine to: smithereens, bits, pieces, orts, perdition and kingdom-come. If you own a high-mileage, low-compression, oil-swilling, rod-knocking, piece o' crap car (you know who you are, don't you), don't bother with the "Italian Tune Up" because you will end up walking home from what's left of your sorry pile of smoking and hissing junk. OK? (I'm not kidding.)

:-)

Now. Assuming your car is otherwise in healthy condition already, and you have worked through the other steps on this site, let's begin.

The easiest way to "blow out the carbon" is to run the car under load at high engine speed. In other words, run the car right to the redline and hold it there in every gear. For decades, experienced drivers and mechanics have called this procedure the "Italian Tune Up".

Now this is a great trick on a race track, but hardly practical on the street.

The street alternative is to first check all fluids and top them up. Make sure you are running clean, high quality oil. I use regular dino-oil 20W50 in summer, 10W30 in winter. (A lot of experienced drivers swear by synthetic motor oils for high temperature running. The additional expense of synthetics may be offset by their longer drain intervals.)

Drive a while so that your oil and water temperatures rise into the normal zones, then head out to your local four-lane. In light or no traffic, try to run for one or two minutes at 90 to 100 kph (~ 55 to 60 mph) in second gear. The engine will be running (loudly) near the red line.

If you continue to push up into the red you will trigger the Digifant rev limiter which cuts the fuel supply in half. This will feel like a sudden roughness in the engine and a loss of power. The first time you experience this you may think you've blown something. Just back out of the throttle so you don't keep banging into the rev limiter. If your engine is in good shape, this is not dangerous, just disconcerting the first time you experience it.

Again, neglected engines will not be up to the strain. If you really don't know the maintenance history of your Digifant car, or if you've just bought it, do not attempt this!

WARNING #2:

If you blow a head gasket or otherwise detonate your engine by following this procedure, don't say you weren't warned! Because you have been warned.

Now if you feather the throttle back just out of rev limiter range and hold it there for 60 seconds or so, the car will continue to cruise smoothly, albeit loudly. (If you are not used to driving your car at or near the redline, the noise can be disconcerting, especially to your passengers!)

The point of holding the rpms steady under the red line is to get everything really hot from the piston tops and valve faces out to the catalytic converter. Under these conditions the engine will quickly reach peak operating temperatures.


I have this vision of four wonderfully hot whitish blue flames pouring out of each exhaust port into the downpipe. Sort of like getting the mixture just right on a Bunsen burner or an oxyacetylene torch, or how about on a 1650 hp Rolls Royce Merlin V12 at just under "war emergency" power? Nice!


If you have an oil temperature gauge, keep a close eye on it because depending on the ambient air temperature, this should be as high as it will ever get. In my Jetta on a warmish summer day, oil temperature peaks around 110°C (~230° F). That's hot!

Remember, if your car is in basically good shape to begin the red line is fairly conservative. A kilometer (or mile) or two of this is all you need to burn off the harmful deposits from stop and go driving. At 100 kph (~62 mph) and 6,000 rpm, a 60 to 90 second burst should be all you need.

After one or two such treatments, the improvement in low speed driveability and throttle transitions may be quite noticeable, especially after a few months of winter or just city driving.

Remember, the famous "Italian Tune Up" is meant only for drivers who know their cars well and know that their cars are in good shape. If you don't know whether your car is up to this kind of treatment, or if you can't afford to fix it if it blows up, then don't risk it.

After all of this, your car should be running like a champ.

[teck]

HAHA my car gets that tune up everyday on the way to work :D

[bushbean]

What happen to my social commentary?

[mkymonkey]

it was deleted

[Estimated Prophet]

HAHA my car gets that tune up everyday on the way to work :D

That's what I was thinking. :werd:

[88Accord-DX]

Not sure what is going on with the idle issue. Might try adjusting some screws on the carb. (float, idle, ect.) Check the timing. Hard to say.

That italian tune up don't sound like it's a good idea. If your trying to clean out carbon deposites on the valves, have an AIR INDUCTION CLEANER hooked up/sprayed through the intake. Much safer than pushing the RPMs the limit.

[A20A1]

http://www.members.tripod.com/~fuelie/tuneup.htm



In all honesty the Italian Tuneup or whatever it's called works on my Accord and My Corolla... I'm surprised your idle worsned. Mine usually gets better after a hard run.

It's not something I'd go around recommending, for the same reasons in the link.

Everytime I take the car and ride it hard up a steep hill the car will run great... problem is I live just up the hill so I get to drive it like 1 mile is good condition before I have to do it all over again :)


One week after my stage-one vacuum removal, the car has been running great, so I decided now would be a good time for a tune up. Therefore, I performed an italian tune up while driving home from work yesterday. The car seems to really enjoy being pushed to its limit yesterday. This morning is a different story. The car won't hold idle (ie., engine will stall if the RPM drops below 1000), but it runs fine if I keep it over 1000 rpm. Any ideas?
If you hit the fuel cut sometimes it will cause the float to drain.
Also remember your hotter engine/carb/exhaust probably vaporied more fuel in the float bowl/and tank after you had your run and let it sit, so that could drop the fuel level and also cause some trouble if your hooked into the vapor vent directly.
Check for vaccum leaks. If you have vaccum caps they can come loose or even pop off after hard runs.
Check your ignition wires and spark plugs to see that they are still snug and not falling out from vibration.
You may need to reset your idle screws, readjust the float

[88Accord-DX]

To me, that italian tune up will or eventually clog up the catalytic convertor if you don't have a test pipe..

[bushbean]

Regarding my idle problem, here are the facts, in chronogical order:
(1) Completed stage-One vacuum removal,
(2) Car runs perfect for two weeks,
(3) I removed and reinstalled the electric valve on the back of the carburetor, in order to get to a broken vacuum line,
(4) I reattached the vacuums lines for the charcoal cannister so that fumes is directed into the cannister because of unpleasant gasoline odor,
(5) One day after (3) and (4) car started to have idle problem (stalls),
(6) When car won't idle properly, there is copious amount of fuel being released from the "bar" on top of the carburetor barrel (just underneath the choke plate),
(7)This problem is intermittent--car runs fine one day, won't idle the next.

Thanks for any help.

[2oodoor]

Regarding my idle problem, here are the facts, in chronogical order:
(1) Completed stage-One vacuum removal,
(2) Car runs perfect for two weeks,
(3) I removed and reinstalled the electric valve on the back of the carburetor, in order to get to a broken vacuum line,
(4) I reattached the vacuums lines for the charcoal cannister so that fumes is directed into the cannister because of unpleasant gasoline odor,
(5) One day after (3) and (4) car started to have idle problem (stalls),
(6) When car won't idle properly, there is copious amount of fuel being released from the "bar" on top of the carburetor barrel (just underneath the choke plate),
(7)This problem is intermittent--car runs fine one day, won't idle the next.

Thanks for any help.
sounds like a loose booster venturi, posslbly the float needle getting stuck.
italian tune ups? , it is never good to run an engine high rpms while unloaded

[skycam_313]

sounds exactly like what i did..... i took her for a long run and blew the crap out of her....big performance gain.

buuuuuut i knocked the screw out of the venturi(that "bar"), soooo check to see if it moves.

in fact check both of them, they should not move at all

...or it could be an o-ring...

[bushbean]

The primary venturi doesn't move; however, the needle on the venturi moves very slightly. SHould the needle be allowed to move?

[skycam_313]

hmmmmmmm not that i know of.......

[skycam_313]

rebuild time!!!

[MessyHonda]

rebuild time!!!




look who is talking

[skycam_313]

burrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnn..... hey i still run right...so :tongue:

[MessyHonda]

burrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnn..... hey i still run right...so :tongue:



yeah it was cool seeing your tach go to 7k.....i never pushed my cars that hard....lol and yeah hows the rear sway bar helping in thoes twisties?>

[bushbean]

I think now is the right time to retire my 3Gee. It's leaks oil from the transmission, various other places from the engine and power steering. The engine is worn out (220kmi). The steering is heavy. The A/c don't work. What'a shame because the interior is in mint condition, and the body is straight. I guess it'll be sold or donated for a good cause.

[MessyHonda]

I think now is the right time to retire my 3Gee. It's leaks oil from the transmission, various other places from the engine and power steering. The engine is worn out (220kmi). The steering is heavy. The A/c don't work. What'a shame because the interior is in mint condition, and the body is straight. I guess it'll be sold or donated for a good cause.



no that is just a good candidate for the engine rebuild and then your car will have zero miles

[bushbean]

Update:

I reversed the stage 1 vacuum removal, and now the engine idles fine.